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Problem with two SATA HDD dives on Sil 3512 controller.

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#1
Sfor

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I do have two 1TB SATA drives. Both of them are working fine when either one of them is connected to the PCI Sil 3512 controller. But, when both are connected at the same time, the Windows 98 does not boot freezing during the Sil driver initialization.

The driver installed is SiI3x12 32-bit Windows SATARAID Driver 1.00.51. It seems to be the newest one.

There is another driver available named as "SiI3x12 32-bit Windows IDE Driver" 1.2.0.57. But, it does not seem to be recognized as a valid one for this particular controller.

I tried with two different Sil 3512 controllers form different manufacturers, but result is still the same. It appears the Windows 98 RAID driver works fine as long as it is just one drive connected. With two drives not arranged in a RAID set the driver hangs the Windows 98 during booting.

Does anyone else encountered the same problem? Or perhaps someone was able to get two SATA HDD drives working on Windows 98 without a RAID set defined. I'm out of ideas, for the moment.


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#2
loblo

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Or perhaps someone was able to get two SATA HDD drives working on Windows 98 without a RAID set defined.

No problems on my previous and current system with two 250GB SATA drives in such configuration. Previous system was an Abit NF7-S mobo with a Silicon Image SATA controller and the current one is an Asus A8V Deluxe with VIA and Promise SATA controllers (never used the Promise one so far).

#3
allen2

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Are you sure the silicon image configuration isn't set to raid (in the bios ) ?

#4
Sfor

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Or perhaps someone was able to get two SATA HDD drives working on Windows 98 without a RAID set defined.

No problems on my previous and current system with two 250GB SATA drives in such configuration. Previous system was an Abit NF7-S mobo with a Silicon Image SATA controller and the current one is an Asus A8V Deluxe with VIA and Promise SATA controllers (never used the Promise one so far).


There are many Silicon Image chips on the market. Are you sure it was the Sil 3512? I have not heard about this particular chip to be integrated on a motherboard, so far.

Are you sure the silicon image configuration isn't set to raid (in the bios ) ?

No, it is not set to the RAID. There are no RAID sets defined, there.

#5
loblo

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There are many Silicon Image chips on the market. Are you sure it was the Sil 3512?

I have not said it was a 3512, I just answered your generic question but looking it up, it appears to be the 3112A.

#6
Sfor

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The Sil 3512 seems to be based on the 3112 design. The chips are close related, so the same set of drivers can be used. The question remains, what driver version were you using?

In my case, everything seems to be working fine, before the SiI3x12 32-bit Windows SATARAID Driver 1.00.51 kicks in.

#7
Guest_wsxedcrfv_*

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I have a generic SATA PCI card installed on this win-98 system. Under SCSI controllers in device manager I have two devices as follows:

A347SCSI SCSI Controller
- c:\windows\system\iosubsys\a347scsi.pdr
- c:\windows\system\vmm32\ios.vxd

Silicon Image SiL 3512 SATARaid Controller
- c:\windows\system\iosubsys\si3112r.mpd (version 1,0,0,51)
- c:\windows\system\vmm32\ios.vxd
- c:\windows\system\silsupp.cpl (version 3,0,0,15)
- c:\windows\system\iosubsys\siisupp.vxd (version 1,0,0,15)

I'm not sure where the first device comes from (I don't think I have a real SCSI controller on this system).

I don't have a problem with two SATA drives attached to this card during bootup. My boot drive where win-98 is located is on the system primary IDE drive (I don't boot from the SATA drives). I currently have 400 and 750 gb sata drives attached to the system.

You might want to set a jumper on your SATA drives to force them to SATA-I operation. I've read where that can be a solution in some cases.

#8
Sfor

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Apparently, there some differences in two files in my driver set:
si3112r.mpd (version 1,0,57,0)
silsupp.cpl (version 3,0,22,0)

I'll try to make some experiments related to these files, later.

#9
loblo

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The Sil 3512 seems to be based on the 3112 design. The chips are close related, so the same set of drivers can be used. The question remains, what driver version were you using?

I used the drivers that came with the motherboard install CD and the files apparently were:

Si3112r.mpd 1.0.0.28
Siisupp.vxd 4.0.0.950 (1,0,0,10)

#10
shae

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I think you'll have to flash to a non-RAID BIOS, or at least change the device ID the driver looks for, to be able to install the non-RAID drivers.

A347SCSI SCSI Controller
- c:\windows\system\iosubsys\a347scsi.pdr
- c:\windows\system\vmm32\ios.vxd

I'm not sure where the first device comes from (I don't think I have a real SCSI controller on this system).

That's Daemon Tools.

Edited by shae, 27 March 2011 - 08:59 AM.


#11
dencorso

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A347SCSI SCSI Controller
- c:\windows\system\iosubsys\a347scsi.pdr

That's Daemon Tools.

Sure. and Version 3.47, to be precise. :)

#12
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> That's Daemon Tools.

For emulating a virtual SCSI controller?

I can't imagine why it's on this system, unless it came as part of EZ CD creator or Nero burning rom or some other CD/DVD app. The file a347scsi.pdr exists nowhere else on this drive other than \windows\system\iosubsys. File properties don't list any corporate owner / author. Description is simply "SCSI port". Copyright is just "Copyright © 2000-2004".

#13
dencorso

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For emulating up to 4 SCSI CD/DVDs.

#14
Sfor

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I have a generic SATA PCI card installed on this win-98 system. Under SCSI controllers in device manager I have two devices as follows:

A347SCSI SCSI Controller
- c:\windows\system\iosubsys\a347scsi.pdr
- c:\windows\system\vmm32\ios.vxd

Silicon Image SiL 3512 SATARaid Controller
- c:\windows\system\iosubsys\si3112r.mpd (version 1,0,0,51)
- c:\windows\system\vmm32\ios.vxd
- c:\windows\system\silsupp.cpl (version 3,0,0,15)
- c:\windows\system\iosubsys\siisupp.vxd (version 1,0,0,15)

I'm not sure where the first device comes from (I don't think I have a real SCSI controller on this system).

I don't have a problem with two SATA drives attached to this card during bootup. My boot drive where win-98 is located is on the system primary IDE drive (I don't boot from the SATA drives). I currently have 400 and 750 gb sata drives attached to the system.

You might want to set a jumper on your SATA drives to force them to SATA-I operation. I've read where that can be a solution in some cases.


I was able to get the same version of drivers installed. But nothing have changed.

I can not force the 1.5GBit transfer rate on the ST31000524AS. The other drive is WD10EARS, so it does have the jumpers to force the 1.5GBit transfer rate.

The drives are both working correctly, when connected without the other one to the same controller. So, the 1.5GBit transfer negotiation should be working fine. The problem starts only when both are connected, in the moment the windows driver is initializing. In some point the HDD LED stops blinking and gets permanently lited. The system gets frozen, before GUI kicks in.

As a workaround I'm using a IDE to SATA adapter in order to connect the ST31000524AS through the mainboard IDE port.

Edited by Sfor, 28 March 2011 - 09:55 AM.


#15
rloew

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I have a generic SATA PCI card installed on this win-98 system. Under SCSI controllers in device manager I have two devices as follows:

A347SCSI SCSI Controller
- c:\windows\system\iosubsys\a347scsi.pdr
- c:\windows\system\vmm32\ios.vxd

Silicon Image SiL 3512 SATARaid Controller
- c:\windows\system\iosubsys\si3112r.mpd (version 1,0,0,51)
- c:\windows\system\vmm32\ios.vxd
- c:\windows\system\silsupp.cpl (version 3,0,0,15)
- c:\windows\system\iosubsys\siisupp.vxd (version 1,0,0,15)

I'm not sure where the first device comes from (I don't think I have a real SCSI controller on this system).

I don't have a problem with two SATA drives attached to this card during bootup. My boot drive where win-98 is located is on the system primary IDE drive (I don't boot from the SATA drives). I currently have 400 and 750 gb sata drives attached to the system.

You might want to set a jumper on your SATA drives to force them to SATA-I operation. I've read where that can be a solution in some cases.


I was able to get the same version of drivers installed. But nothing have changed.

I can not force the 1.5GBit transfer rate on the ST31000524AS. The other drive is WD10EARS, so it does have the jumpers to force the 1.5GBit transfer rate.

The drives are both working correctly, when connected without the other one to the same controller. So, the 1.5GBit transfer negotiation should be working fine. The problem starts only when both are connected, in the moment the windows driver is initializing. In some point the HDD LED stops blinking and gets permanently lited. The system gets frozen, before GUI kicks in.

As a workaround I'm using a IDE to SATA adapter in order to connect the ST31000524AS through the mainboard IDE port.

I have had mixed results with Silicon Image Drivers. My girlfriend's Computer would not boot with the provided Driver, so I installed my SATA Patch. It can handle two SATA Drives.
Ye who enter my domain. Beware! Lest you become educated in the mysteries of the universe and suffer forever from the desire to know more.

#16
Sfor

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I think you'll have to flash to a non-RAID BIOS, or at least change the device ID the driver looks for, to be able to install the non-RAID drivers.


Well, I've tried installing the non-RAID drivers forcefuly, already. The driver was not working and all the partition from the drive were in DOS compatibility mode. So, changing the device ID in the .inf file will not do, I think.

I have no idea how can I reflash the BIOS in the controller. Unitek does not seem to provide any BIOS upgrades for their PCI-SATA-2R controller.

#17
rloew

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I think you'll have to flash to a non-RAID BIOS, or at least change the device ID the driver looks for, to be able to install the non-RAID drivers.


Well, I've tried installing the non-RAID drivers forcefuly, already. The driver was not working and all the partition from the drive were in DOS compatibility mode. So, changing the device ID in the .inf file will not do, I think.

I have no idea how can I reflash the BIOS in the controller. Unitek does not seem to provide any BIOS upgrades for their PCI-SATA-2R controller.

Many Vendor supplied Drivers hard code the PCI IDs in their code, so changing the INF Files isn't sufficient.
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#18
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I can not force the 1.5GBit transfer rate on the ST31000524AS. The other drive is WD10EARS, so it does have the jumpers to force the 1.5GBit transfer rate.
As a workaround I'm using a IDE to SATA adapter in order to connect the ST31000524AS through the mainboard IDE port.

I'm seeing references to a "Mod15Write" problem on sil3112/3114 controllers in conjunction with many Seagate hard drives (7200.7), most or perhaps all of which include drives with model numbers starting with "ST3".

At this point I'm trying to figure out what the difference is between 3512 and 3112. Seems that some people are flashing the 3512 bios onto their 3112 controller cards...

Also - you might want to see what you can do with the Sil Sata/Raid control panel applet that you should have in your control panel. Possibly change some settings might get your hard drives working properly.

#19
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I think the topic of the compatibility or usability of the Sil 3112 and 3114 SATA controller chips with Windows 98 might need a bit of exploration and clarification, and I'll try to do that in the future. I know this thread is dealing with a problem with 3112, but I think I've hit upon something that pertains to both types of controllers.

First, controller cards that have either the 3112 (2-port) and 3114 (4-port) SiL Sata controllers seem to have two different types of BIOS or firmware: One is Raid, and the other is non-raid (I think is also known as "Base"). This is also true for motherboards with integrated 3112 or 3114 controllers.

(side note: I have no idea if 3512 / 3514 are different chips than the 3112 / 3114, or just a different package, and / or if they have different drivers).

In most or all cases, whether integrated onto the motherboard or add-on card, the firmware will be the RAID type. There are firmware files available from Silicon Image for both add-on cards and motherboards (128 kb and 64 kb in size I believe) for both types of applications (raid and non-raid/base).

When it comes to the driver files, the important file is si3114.mpd (or si3112.mpd). What I've been seeing in my bootlog.txt is "Init Failure si3114.mpd" while trying to install the drivers for my 3114 card. So on a hunch, I took the raid version (si3114r.mpd) and renamed it to si3114.mpd and copied it into my \windows\system\iosubsys directory (renamed the existing si3114.mpd) and bingo - I get "init success si3114.mpd" and the card shows up with no (!) issues in device manager.

I don't have time right now to plug in any SATA drives and see if it's working - I'll do that later tonight.

I might even try to flash the non-raid firmware onto my card and see how that works.

So to recap, I think we need to understand or get more info about:

- 3512 / 3514 vs 3112 / 3114 (hardware? drivers? Cross-usage between them?)
- Raid vs non-raid (base?) firmware (does non-raid firmware give better SATA speed/performance?)
- "SataLink" vs "Softraid 5" identification / driver
- Control panel SATA applet / functionality / files
- What are the "best" files (best versions) to use for win-98:

-- Si3114.inf / Si3114r.inf / Si3114r5.inf
-- SI3114.cat / Si3114r.cat / Si3114r5.cat
-- Si3114.sys / Si3114r.sys
-- Si3114.mpd / Si3114r.mpd
-- SIISupp.vxd
-- SilSupp.cpl

I haven't acquired too many files (yet) for the 3112 chip or sata cards, but what I have so far seem to be just "r" files, as in si3112r.inf, si3112r.mpd, etc. I have no 3512 / 3514 files of any sort (not sure if the reason is they don't exist or I just haven't looked specifically for any of them yet).

Edited by wsxedcrfv, 05 April 2011 - 08:55 AM.


#20
dencorso

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If the non-RAID is AHCI, it won't work with Win 9x/ME, while if it is " IDE-mode" it'll do OK, but probably be slower than RAID, provided their .mpd for it works OK. This <link> also may be of interest.

#21
Sfor

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I think the topic of the compatibility or usability of the Sil 3112 and 3114 SATA controller chips with Windows 98 might need a bit of exploration and clarification, and I'll try to do that in the future. I know this thread is dealing with a problem with 3112, but I think I've hit upon something that pertains to both types of controllers.

First, controller cards that have either the 3112 (2-port) and 3114 (4-port) SiL Sata controllers seem to have two different types of BIOS or firmware: One is Raid, and the other is non-raid (I think is also known as "Base"). This is also true for motherboards with integrated 3112 or 3114 controllers.

(side note: I have no idea if 3512 / 3514 are different chips than the 3112 / 3114, or just a different package, and / or if they have different drivers).

In most or all cases, whether integrated onto the motherboard or add-on card, the firmware will be the RAID type. There are firmware files available from Silicon Image for both add-on cards and motherboards (128 kb and 64 kb in size I believe) for both types of applications (raid and non-raid/base).

When it comes to the driver files, the important file is si3114.mpd (or si3112.mpd). What I've been seeing in my bootlog.txt is "Init Failure si3114.mpd" while trying to install the drivers for my 3114 card. So on a hunch, I took the raid version (si3114r.mpd) and renamed it to si3114.mpd and copied it into my \windows\system\iosubsys directory (renamed the existing si3114.mpd) and bingo - I get "init success si3114.mpd" and the card shows up with no (!) issues in device manager.

I don't have time right now to plug in any SATA drives and see if it's working - I'll do that later tonight.

I might even try to flash the non-raid firmware onto my card and see how that works.

So to recap, I think we need to understand or get more info about:

- 3512 / 3514 vs 3112 / 3114 (hardware? drivers? Cross-usage between them?)
- Raid vs non-raid (base?) firmware (does non-raid firmware give better SATA speed/performance?)
- "SataLink" vs "Softraid 5" identification / driver
- Control panel SATA applet / functionality / files
- What are the "best" files (best versions) to use for win-98:

-- Si3114.inf / Si3114r.inf / Si3114r5.inf
-- SI3114.cat / Si3114r.cat / Si3114r5.cat
-- Si3114.sys / Si3114r.sys
-- Si3114.mpd / Si3114r.mpd
-- SIISupp.vxd
-- SilSupp.cpl

I haven't acquired too many files (yet) for the 3112 chip or sata cards, but what I have so far seem to be just "r" files, as in si3112r.inf, si3112r.mpd, etc. I have no 3512 / 3514 files of any sort (not sure if the reason is they don't exist or I just haven't looked specifically for any of them yet).

There are driver sets available for both RAID and non-RAID controler versions. The problem is the compatibility with Windows 98 got dropped in both driver sets, quite a few years ago. So, the newer controller versions are no longer covered by the drivers for Windows 98. I do not know if reflashing the controller BIOS to older version can affect the driver compatibility problem.

The description of the 3512 chip has got ilustrations from the 3112. The driver sets are the same, as well. So, basicaly, it is the same design. Also, file names in driver sets for 3512 are clearly 3112. There are no files for just the 3512, then.

A wile ago, I was playing with a 3114 controller. While the driver was reported as working correctly, the drives were still in DOS compatibility mode. So, no exclamation mark in device manager does not mean, the driver is working correcly.

If the non-RAID is AHCI, it won't work with Win 9x/ME, while if it is " IDE-mode" it'll do OK, but probably be slower than RAID, provided their .mpd for it works OK. This <link> also may be of interest.

Since there are driver sets available, it can not be the problem with the AHCI interface. This problem is only valid, when using generic drivers for SATA controllers.

Edited by Sfor, 05 April 2011 - 12:05 PM.


#22
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There are driver sets available for both RAID and non-RAID controler versions. The problem is the compatibility with Windows 98 got dropped in both driver sets, quite a few years ago. So, the newer controller versions are no longer covered by the drivers for Windows 98. I do not know if reflashing the controller BIOS to older version can affect the driver compatibility problem.

I have only ever seen two different BIOS versions (5.0.7.3 and 5.4.0.3) for the 3114 controller chips, and both of those are claimed to be fully supported under Windows 98 (primarily because they date to 2006 time-frame). The 3114 card I just bought at retail has 5.4.0.3 bios.

The description of the 3512 chip has got ilustrations from the 3112. The driver sets are the same, as well. So, basicaly, it is the same design. Also, file names in driver sets for 3512 are clearly 3112. There are no files for just the 3512, then.

I have looked at the data sheets for the 3112, 3114 and 3512, and based on that I can say:

3112:
- Rev "0" date and package type is unknown
- Rev "A" seems to date to August 2002
- Rev A is 144 TQFP package
- Rev B date is January 2003
- 144 TQFP package
- PCI 2.2 compliant
- Two-channel SATA controller

3114:
- Original data sheet dated September 2003
- Data sheet becomes public (no NDA) November 2006
- 176 TQFP package
- PCI 2.3 compliant

3512:
- Original data sheet dated January 2004
- Data sheet becomes public (no NDA) November 2006
- 128 TQFP package
- PCI 2.3 compliant
- Two-channel SATA controller

There is no reference on any of the data sheets to each-other, other than this sentence from the 3114 data sheet (page 74):

-------------
The programming sequence for the SiI3114 is about the same as for the SiI3112 or SiI3512. However, SiI3114 supports up to four SATA devices (instead of two for the others).
--------------

Other than a change in the number of pins on the chip, and the slight difference in PCI version compatibility (2.2 vs 2.3), the 3112 and 3512 are identical in every way that I can see from the data sheets. The pinout is different, but internally they are functionally and probably structurally identical (same micron process type).

A while ago, I was playing with a 3114 controller. While the driver was reported as working correctly, the drives were still in DOS compatibility mode. So, no exclamation mark in device manager does not mean, the driver is working correcly.

But if it was working in DOS compatibility mode, I would see that in the Performance tab in System Properties. I don't see that - I see "your system is configured for optimal performance". File System: 32-bit.

If the non-RAID is AHCI, it won't work with Win 9x/ME, while if it is " IDE-mode" it'll do OK, but probably be slower than RAID, provided their .mpd for it works OK. This <link> also may be of interest.

Yes, it would seem that someone else had already noticed that the drivers needed to be swapped in the inf files. 5 years ago.

Since there are driver sets available, it can not be the problem with the AHCI interface. This problem is only valid, when using generic drivers for SATA controllers.

I think these controller chips came out way before AHCI was implimented. So yes, I can say that I have two of my SATA drives (400 and 750 gb) working on this 3114 card. However, they seem to be working in PIO mode 0 or 1 (not DMA/UDMA). A file-copy test I performed (copying 7 gb worth of files from SATA drive 1 to SATA drive 2) worked out to about 5.9 million bytes per second. There is a utility program that sits in the system tray (Configuration for SATA Raid) that is Java based that I had to find a version that runs under windows (the one that came on the CD with the 3114 board did not run properly, but I found a different one). In theory I can set many different operating modes that take effect upon next boot, but none of the settings seem to actually work. So my next issue here will be to see how to enable MDMA or UDMA.

#23
Sfor

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My SiI3512 is working fine, as long as there is just one SATA drive connected to it. But, there is no DMA checkbox available in the Device Manager. Still the performance is just a bit worse than the same drive connected through a SATA to ATA adapter with UDMA-5 working. The difference in speed is just a few percent caused by the bus mastering, probably.

I do not have the SiI3114, any more. In any case, I was not able to make it work with windows 98. I do not know the bios version, but only the Si3114r5.inf had a proper identyfication strings for it. So, ir was the Soft Raid 5 version.

I'm not using the java utility. The one provided with 3114 was not working for me.

Edited by Sfor, 06 April 2011 - 01:12 AM.


#24
Wolfgang16

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I use a Dawicontrol DC-150 vers 1.1 card to drive one 2TB HD. It has a SiI 3112A chip. The drivers I got from the manufacturers site at
http://www.dawicontr...html/raid.shtml
Note that this is a somewhat older page, which you cannot access from their main site. If you scroll down to DC-150 RAID, you find the raid driver:

Dawicontrol RAID BIOS 3.54
32-bit RAID Treiber Windows 2000/XP/Server2003/Vista 1.0.60.0
Although it does not say "Windows 98" the dc150drv.zip includes a Win98 driver. Some of the files have later versions than what has been posted here so far. I also use the BIOS 3.54, which is included.

So far I have only one issue with this card: the computer does shut down but it does not switch off.

Regarding the question raid vs non-raid:

The manual says, that the BIOS of the card can be disabled by a jumper, but this should only be made in case of booting problems and in this case one would need the special non-raid driver.

There is also an option to deactivate the BIOS by the flash program. Is this case one has to use the raid driver.

Non-raid drivers can also be downloaded from the PCMCIA page
http://www.dawicontr...ml/pcmcia.shtml
May be these PCMCIA cards don't have a BIOS?

Wolfgang

#25
Sfor

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I did replace the driver with the one obtained from Dawicontrol page. It does have newer files and istalls without a problem on the Windows 98.

Everything seems to be working fine until a second SATA drive gets connected. Then Windows 98 freezes during boot. So, no change for me.

I do not know if it is safe to replace the Silicon Image BIOS with the Dawicontrol one. The chip is not exactly the same, I'm afraid.




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