[Sfor]

wsxedcrfv, on 05 April 2011 - 08:43 AM, said:

I think the topic of the compatibility or usability of the Sil 3112 and 3114 SATA controller chips with Windows 98 might need a bit of exploration and clarification, and I'll try to do that in the future. I know this thread is dealing with a problem with 3112, but I think I've hit upon something that pertains to both types of controllers.

First, controller cards that have either the 3112 (2-port) and 3114 (4-port) SiL Sata controllers seem to have two different types of BIOS or firmware: One is Raid, and the other is non-raid (I think is also known as "Base"). This is also true for motherboards with integrated 3112 or 3114 controllers.

(side note: I have no idea if 3512 / 3514 are different chips than the 3112 / 3114, or just a different package, and / or if they have different drivers).

In most or all cases, whether integrated onto the motherboard or add-on card, the firmware will be the RAID type. There are firmware files available from Silicon Image for both add-on cards and motherboards (128 kb and 64 kb in size I believe) for both types of applications (raid and non-raid/base).

When it comes to the driver files, the important file is si3114.mpd (or si3112.mpd). What I've been seeing in my bootlog.txt is "Init Failure si3114.mpd" while trying to install the drivers for my 3114 card. So on a hunch, I took the raid version (si3114r.mpd) and renamed it to si3114.mpd and copied it into my \windows\system\iosubsys directory (renamed the existing si3114.mpd) and bingo - I get "init success si3114.mpd" and the card shows up with no (!) issues in device manager.

I don't have time right now to plug in any SATA drives and see if it's working - I'll do that later tonight.

I might even try to flash the non-raid firmware onto my card and see how that works.

So to recap, I think we need to understand or get more info about:

- 3512 / 3514 vs 3112 / 3114 (hardware? drivers? Cross-usage between them?)
- Raid vs non-raid (base?) firmware (does non-raid firmware give better SATA speed/performance?)
- "SataLink" vs "Softraid 5" identification / driver
- Control panel SATA applet / functionality / files
- What are the "best" files (best versions) to use for win-98:

-- Si3114.inf / Si3114r.inf / Si3114r5.inf
-- SI3114.cat / Si3114r.cat / Si3114r5.cat
-- Si3114.sys / Si3114r.sys
-- Si3114.mpd / Si3114r.mpd
-- SIISupp.vxd
-- SilSupp.cpl

I haven't acquired too many files (yet) for the 3112 chip or sata cards, but what I have so far seem to be just "r" files, as in si3112r.inf, si3112r.mpd, etc. I have no 3512 / 3514 files of any sort (not sure if the reason is they don't exist or I just haven't looked specifically for any of them yet).

There are driver sets available for both RAID and non-RAID controler versions. The problem is the compatibility with Windows 98 got dropped in both driver sets, quite a few years ago. So, the newer controller versions are no longer covered by the drivers for Windows 98. I do not know if reflashing the controller BIOS to older version can affect the driver compatibility problem.

The description of the 3512 chip has got ilustrations from the 3112. The driver sets are the same, as well. So, basicaly, it is the same design. Also, file names in driver sets for 3512 are clearly 3112. There are no files for just the 3512, then.

A wile ago, I was playing with a 3114 controller. While the driver was reported as working correctly, the drives were still in DOS compatibility mode. So, no exclamation mark in device manager does not mean, the driver is working correcly.

dencorso, on 05 April 2011 - 11:21 AM, said:

If the non-RAID is AHCI, it won't work with Win 9x/ME, while if it is " IDE-mode" it'll do OK, but probably be slower than RAID, provided their .mpd for it works OK. This <link> also may be of interest.

Since there are driver sets available, it can not be the problem with the AHCI interface. This problem is only valid, when using generic drivers for SATA controllers.

This post has been edited by Sfor: 05 April 2011 - 12:05 PM

[Sfor]

My SiI3512 is working fine, as long as there is just one SATA drive connected to it. But, there is no DMA checkbox available in the Device Manager. Still the performance is just a bit worse than the same drive connected through a SATA to ATA adapter with UDMA-5 working. The difference in speed is just a few percent caused by the bus mastering, probably.

I do not have the SiI3114, any more. In any case, I was not able to make it work with windows 98. I do not know the bios version, but only the Si3114r5.inf had a proper identyfication strings for it. So, ir was the Soft Raid 5 version.

I'm not using the java utility. The one provided with 3114 was not working for me.

This post has been edited by Sfor: 06 April 2011 - 01:12 AM

[Wolfgang16]

I use a Dawicontrol DC-150 vers 1.1 card to drive one 2TB HD. It has a SiI 3112A chip. The drivers I got from the manufacturers site at
http://www.dawicontr...html/raid.shtml
Note that this is a somewhat older page, which you cannot access from their main site. If you scroll down to DC-150 RAID, you find the raid driver:

Dawicontrol RAID BIOS 3.54
32-bit RAID Treiber Windows 2000/XP/Server2003/Vista 1.0.60.0

Although it does not say "Windows 98" the dc150drv.zip includes a Win98 driver. Some of the files have later versions than what has been posted here so far. I also use the BIOS 3.54, which is included.

So far I have only one issue with this card: the computer does shut down but it does not switch off.

Regarding the question raid vs non-raid:

The manual says, that the BIOS of the card can be disabled by a jumper, but this should only be made in case of booting problems and in this case one would need the special non-raid driver.

There is also an option to deactivate the BIOS by the flash program. Is this case one has to use the raid driver.

Non-raid drivers can also be downloaded from the PCMCIA page
http://www.dawicontr...ml/pcmcia.shtml
May be these PCMCIA cards don't have a BIOS?

Wolfgang

[Sfor]

I did replace the driver with the one obtained from Dawicontrol page. It does have newer files and istalls without a problem on the Windows 98.

Everything seems to be working fine until a second SATA drive gets connected. Then Windows 98 freezes during boot. So, no change for me.

I do not know if it is safe to replace the Silicon Image BIOS with the Dawicontrol one. The chip is not exactly the same, I'm afraid.

[Sfor]

Currently I do have just Seagate ST31000524AS and Western Digital WD10EARS. I had another Seagate 500GB SATA drive a while ago. But, the effect was exactly the same. I do not remember trying to connect both Seagate drives to the controller, at the same time. So, it is possible to say it was always a Seagate and WD pair.

So, I can not use two other than Seagate drives, I'm afraid.

This post has been edited by Sfor: 22 April 2011 - 11:41 PM

[Multibooter]

wsxedcrfv, on 23 April 2011 - 10:17 AM, said:

As I've posted before, there does seem to have been an issue with Seagate drives and SiL controllers.

To avoid time-consuming problems I stay away from SATA HDDs inside my desktop computer, and stick with old expensive PATA HDDs inside my desktop.

Multibooter, on 22 April 2011 - 11:43 AM, said:

My experience with questionable Seagate SATA HDDs with brick-risk, of which I had a basketful, made me restrict the use of SATA HDDs to external storage. When encountering hard-to-resolve Win98 problems, I'd like to have excluded the possibility that the problem could be caused by a firmware/driver issue of the SATA HDD... http://www.msfn.org/...post__p__963318

[I41Mar]

Dear msfn forum,
please help me because I have purchased and just received the PCI card product based on the SD-SATA150R SIL3512 chipset by Syba, in order to improve the performance of my old P3 PC with the Win98 operating system and carrying only connections for PATA HD drives, to be able to use also the SATA HD drives.
I would like kindly know where to download the drivers for Win98SE because at product page
www.sybausa.com/productInfo.php?iid=507
and also as shown on the printed package received the product in question should be compatible with MS Windows operating systems 98SE/Me / Server 2000/Windows 2003/XP/NT 4.0/Vista/7 / Linux and the drivers can be downloaded at
www.sybausa.com/resource/SD-SATA150R/SD-SATA150R_Windows_98SE-Me-2000-Windows_Server_2003-XP-NT_4.0-Vista-7-_Linux.zip
.
Unfortunately, despite the file name, this file does not contain any drivers for my operating system (Win98SE), not even the CD that came with the card package contains the necessary drivers for Win98SE!
The sata HD is accessed only in slow bios compatibility mode (at 1 Mb /sec, without any drivers!).
I would like kindly to know where I can find the drivers compatible with Win98SE required to operate the SD-SATA150R PCI card that I just bought. I am in big troubles!
With my best regards from Italy and thankyou for your patience.
I41Mar

[Kelsenellenelvian]

Good luck

While syba cards are EXTREMLY affordable their support systems suck.

I bought the same style card from them and payed via paypal. It didn't come with a drivers disk and after 5 emails asking for working drivers I finally had to put in a resolution asking for a payment reversal in paypal to get the drivers...

Took me 4+ weeks to get drivers for the damned card...

[jaclaz]

I am not sure to get it right.

Here:
http://it.us.syba.co.../73-0203-1.html

There are two files liinked to mentioning Windows98:
http://it.us.syba.co...l_v1.0.0.40.zip <- sil3112-raid_drv_winall_v1.0.0.40.zip
and:
http://it.us.syba.co...1.0.0.19%20.zip <- sil3112-raid_medley_v1.0.0.19%20.zip

On page:
http://www.sybausa.c...ce/SD-SATA150R/
there is (including the one you mentioned) these three:
http://www.sybausa.c...nux-Netware.zip
http://www.sybausa.c...ta-7-_Linux.rar
http://www.sybausa.c...ta-7-_Linux.zip

None of these contain a suitable Win98 driver?

I would also chek here:
http://www.wecandobe...A-3x12-RAID-2P/

jaclaz

This post has been edited by jaclaz: 19 December 2011 - 12:43 PM

[rloew]

A version of my SATA Patch should be able to handle these cards.

[TmEE]

I have found that Silicon Image cards need to have their BIOS match the driver, if that's not the case you'll get lockups and the like once you get into windows, especially during driver install or on next reboot once driver is installed. Disabling the on-card BIOS fixes that, but it denies possibility to use these drives in DOS mode or boot from them.

[jaclaz]

TmEE, on 20 December 2011 - 03:16 AM, said:

I have found that Silicon Image cards need to have their BIOS match the driver, if that's not the case you'll get lockups and the like once you get into windows, especially during driver install or on next reboot once driver is installed. Disabling the on-card BIOS fixes that, but it denies possibility to use these drives in DOS mode or boot from them.

Since the BIOS is flashable and available, it could be interesting if you could detail HOW exactly the driver is matched to the BIOS.
http://www.wimsbios....topic10688.html

jaclaz

[pointertovoid]

My experience is with SiI 3112 and 3124, not the similar 3512.

The driver must match the Bios, that is either Raid or non-raid. Raid Bios and drivers can use disks individually. Performance is the same except the pre-boot time: 4s added by Raid Bios, 2s by non-Raid. Flashing worked easily for me several times.

Both are very fast controllers, slightly faster than the integrated Intel ones. Shameless.

Win95-98-Me does not make use of Ahci, and Ahci is a huge performance improvement. The SiI3112, which has drivers for W98-Me, has no Ahci mode (=parallel requests). The SiI3124 has them, very efficient; no driver for W98-Me, and I ignore its speed with default drivers.

The SiI3124 does hotswap. Probably difficult on W98-Me. With W2k and fixed drives it needs
http://mt-naka.com/h...p/index_enu.htm
but v2.0.0.0 is really the latest for W2k and it does not stop the spindle so you shouldn't unplug it, sob. XP, yes.

DMA checkbox comes with the default Windows drivers. Specific drivers may have one or not, at a different location. They often have no such checkbox because they always enable DMA and UDMA.

The SiI3124 writes the description of Raid arrays on the disks instead of a Flash memory on the controller card. This means that you can move your disks between two controllers and a Raid still works. Just as the Promise FT100 did. Or move them between ports of your controller, and so on. BUT if one disk belonged once to a Raid group and you didn't disband this group using the Bios, connecting said disk to a SiI 3124 lets it go crazy. Could this possibly be your case?

One disk speed benchmark (HdTach?) did destroy raid arrays on the Promise Ft100 controller, supposedly by overwriting the badly protected sector where the Ft100 wrote the description of the array (how embarrassing, how embarrassing). I couldn't reproduce this failure with the SiI3124, which may protect said sector better.

Good luck with SiI, these are the best Sata controllers on Pci. But this operation needs some time before it works. Raid-0 isn't worth it now that a single disk saturates the Pci bandwidth, but Ahci is worth it with Win Nt4-Nt5, and Sata on an older machine is certainly useful. I ran a Sata SSD on a PIII Tualatin and it brings a lot. Big disk capacity for cheap is one other reason. And if you change the mobo some day, you can keep your Sata disks.

This post has been edited by pointertovoid: 22 December 2011 - 08:16 PM

[rloew]

If the card BIOS uses AHCI and cannot be changed, it cannot be used with Windows 9X even in compatability mode.

[TmEE]

jaclaz, on 20 December 2011 - 04:14 AM, said:

Since the BIOS is flashable and available, it could be interesting if you could detail HOW exactly the driver is matched to the BIOS

It seemed to me that when you had driver from like 2004 and BIOS from 2008 it would not work out, but if you had BIOS from 2004 it would work. (Numbers I pulled out of my rear, to give the idea).
I got stack errors, it kind of seems the driver got confused or something and eventually caused a stack fault.

[I41Mar]

Hello!
Sorry for the late replay.
Currently I have the PC P3 at the computer technician shop in order to test the Syba PCI SATA card: SD-SATA150R with SIL3512 chipset.
I checked the PCI card BIOS and is it the version 4.3.83. I then used correctly the PCI card, after several failed attempts with the wrong drivers, finally founding the right driver on the official Silicon Image website:
- Silicon Image Serial ATA Raid driver for the SiI 3x12 controllers Ver 1.0.60.0 (File found on website: 3112Raid_x86_10600_logo.zip).

The SATA HD drive is recognized correctly but the data transfer speed seems quite similar to that of the other HD drive Pata!
At first impression it seems to me that the limit, right in my case of the old PC P3, is given instead by the motherboard (11 years old!)
These are the PC specs:
Intel Pentium IIIE Coppermine 700MHz, Socket 370, RAM 512Mb, MotherBoard PCChips M754LMR+, Chipset ULi/ALi M1631 ALADDiN TNT2, VideoCard NVIDIA Aladdin TNT2.

Over the next few days I will give more precise information about the speed that I found in the following 3 cases:
PATA HD (attached to the motherboard), HD Sata (attached to PCI card), USB 2.0 HD (attached to USB 2.0 PCI card).

Thank you from Italy for your help, for your kindness and availability!
I41Mar

Note 1: So far I have not received any useful indication from the Syba support, despite the message I sent them through its official website, but at this point it becomes really irrelevant.

Note 2:
Quote: 'DMA checkbox comes with the default Windows drivers. Specific drivers may have one or not, at a different location. They often have no such checkbox because they always enable DMA and UDMA.'
A.: I my case, in the driver's installed properties there isn't any indication of DMA checkbox, but the transfer speed is not anymore the previous slow 1 Mb/sec resulting without any driver installed!

PS: In order not to use any internal HD drive, as would be nice and sweet to run the Win98SE operating system on an external USB 2.0 HD drive, booting from a floppy disk if necessary!

This post has been edited by I41Mar: 23 December 2011 - 05:10 AM

[rloew]

I41Mar, on 23 December 2011 - 05:04 AM, said:

PS: In order not to use any internal HD drive, as would be nice and sweet to run the Win98SE operating system on an external USB 2.0 HD drive, booting from a floppy disk if necessary!

It can be done and a floppy is not needed. The only requirement is that the BIOS must recognize the USB Device.