[Multibooter]

Last update of this posting 14-May-2011
Posting #25 (review of BD-R media) was updated on 7-May-2011

Toolbox for Blu-Ray under Windows 98
1) ImgBurn v2.5.5.0 http://www.imgburn.c...hp?act=download (best burning software under Win98)
2) Nero CD-DVD Speed v4.7.7.15 (for measuring burn quality) [see posting #18]
3) DVD/CD-ROM Driver Version 1.21 for ASPI (DOS driver, by Matsushta-Kotobuke 1990-1997, when booting into MS-DOS) [see posting #24]
4) Nero CleanTool [see posting #28]
5) Firmware updates: http://www.firmwarehq.com/

6) my currently preferred Blu-ray burner is LiteOn iHBS212
7) my currently preferred BD-R media, for satisfactory burn quality with the LiteOn iHBS212, are Panasonic LM-BRS25LU25 (spindle of 25, I paid $63) [see posting #25]

Rejected Blu-ray burners
1) Memorex MRX-800L Blu-ray burner (posting #25)
2) LG BH12LS35 Blu-ray burner (posting #32)

========= end of update ==========

I have recently bought an internal Memorex Blu-ray burner MRX-800L v1 (SATA) and am currently testing it under Win98SE (plain vanilla, without KernelEx) and under WinXP SP2. I have in my desktop an Asus P5PE-VM motherboard, which has onboard SATA 1, a 750GB PATA HDD Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 Model ST3750640A, and a 2.2GHz E4500 dual-core CPU.

Because of the onboard SATA I just had to connect the Blu-ray burner to the SATA connector on the motherboard, and the blu-ray burner was recognized without major issue under Win98SE, appearing in My Computer in the "Type" column as "CD-ROM Disc". I have burnt under Win98 a blu-ray disk with Nero Burning ROM v7.2.7, after producing 2 coasters. There seem to be issues with the burnt Blu-ray disk. Beyond Compare v2.5.3, for example, produces error messages when comparing the burnt Blu-ray disk vs the original source.

I am hopeful that eventually I will be able read and write Blu-ray disks under Win98SE, just like regular CDs or DVDs.

There is a whole bag of questions, like:
- which burning software works Ok for Blu-ray under Win98?
- which burners burn good quality Blu-ray disks under Win98?
- which Blu-ray media has a good burn quality under Win98 or slow computers?
- which utilities/general software have issues with Blu-ray disks under Win98?
- what should you do if your motherboard does not have onboard SATA?
- using a Blu-ray burner with an additional SATA II card, when one has already an older onboard SATA I
- using a Blu-ray burner in an external eSATA (eSATA and USB 2.0??) enclosure
- are there any file name/file system issues, e.g. when accessing or burning a Blu-ray disk under Win98 vs WinXP?
- which BIOS settings work Ok for Blu-ray under Win98?

A lot more question will eventually arise.

The purpose of this topic is to make available, at one central location, information about Blu-ray under Windows 98.

This post has been edited by Multibooter: 14 May 2011 - 09:00 AM

[submix8c]

A reference (with additional possible necessary patches). Be aware of Filesize limitations.

[Multibooter]

ImgBurn according to their website http://www.imgburn.com/ burns Blu-ray under Win98. Are there any issues installing ImgBurn if Nero Burning ROM (e.g. v7.2.7) is already installed? Which version of ImgBurn is preferrable under Win98?

[submix8c]

No. They are compatible (and a plug-in is available). Don't know about "which version" - look it up. (Hmmm - 7.2.7 on 98SE - KernelEx?)

This post has been edited by submix8c: 24 April 2011 - 05:36 PM

[Multibooter]

submix8c, on 24 April 2011 - 05:26 PM, said:

(Hmmm - 7.2.7 on 98SE - KernelEx?)

Nero v7.2.7.0 is the last version for Win98SE without KernelEx.

Multibooter, on 24 April 2011 - 04:08 PM, said:

Beyond Compare v2.5.3, for example, produces error messages when comparing the burnt Blu-ray disk vs the original source.

I have repeated the binary compare with Beyond Compare under Win98, this time Beyond Compare finished Ok without any issue. No idea why I got the error messages earlier, maybe because I made the compare with a freshly burnt blu-ray disk, or the new burner needed a couple of hours of burn-in.

There were 2 annoying differences in file/directory names between the original source and the burnt Blu-ray disk, no idea why:
1) The folder on the original source
J:\Junk_blu-ray_24Apr2011\Source_17\MS Java VM Removal Tool\Test MS Java VM (jheroen)-doesnt work offline\Installation Check - Microsoft Java Virtual Machine Resource_files\
was burnt by Nero v7.2.7.0, without any message, under a different name as:
L:\Source_17\MS Java VM Removal Tool\Test MS Java VM (jheroen)-doesnt work offline\Installation Check_-_Microsoft Java Virtual Machine Resource_files#2F7C\ [underscores were also inserted!]

2) and the file
J:\Junk_blu-ray_24Apr2011\Source_17\MS Java VM Removal Tool\Test MS Java VM (jheroen)-doesnt work offline\Installation Check - Microsoft Java Virtual Machine Resource_files\Installation Check - Microsoft Java Virtual Machine Resource.htm
was burnt by Nero v7.2.7.0, without any message, under a different name as:
L:\Source_17\MS Java VM Removal Tool\Test MS Java VM (jheroen)-doesnt work offline\Installation Check_-_Microsoft Java Virtual Machine Resource#7FD7.htm [underscores were also inserted!]

BTW, the burnt Blu-ray disk is displayed in My Computer under Win98 with the label "BD-R So#XQW" (incorrect), under WinXP as "BD-R Sources"(correct, as entered into Nero when burning the disk)

Also, Nero v7.2.7.0 flagged, during earlier attempts at burning, 4 file names as being too long under Joliet. When I ignored it, Nero produced the 2 coasters. I had in Nero in the "UDF" tab under "File System Options" the setting "Automatic settings (recommended)"

Nero v7.2.7.0 can apparently also write under Win98 multi-session Blu-ray disks, which I eventually will have to try out. The Blu-ray test-disk I burnt and finalized has 10.3GB stuff on it (11000 files, 2000 folders, burn time at 4x [17,980 kB/s] was 11:26 minutes). 4x was the only writing speed offered by Nero with the firmware of the Memorex burner, I would have preferred 1x, maybe it was caused by the Kodak BD-R disks, which stated just 4x.

This post has been edited by dencorso: 22 July 2011 - 01:37 PM
Reason for edit: Joined two successive posts. Part of thread surgery elsewhere.

[Multibooter]

I have just run a disk quality check of the burnt Blu-ray disk, with Nero CD-DVD Speed v4.7.7.15 under Win98. The burn quality was terrible, next to trash, only 8 out of 100:
LDC: Avg 27.91, Max: 254, Total: 0
BIS: Avg 0.71, Max:16, Total: 0

This bad burn quality explains why Beyond Compare stopped with errors. So my Memorex Blu-ray burner doesn't like my Kodak BD-R disks [Manufacturer ID: PHILIPR04 (000), as displayed in the Disc Info tab of Nero CD-DVD Speed], or my desktop is too slow, or... Maybe I should return the burner, it was on sale at Fry's for $92... I'll make another burning test under WinXP, maybe Win98 is the culprit...

[dencorso]

Path too deep and name too long are issues for any optical medium, be it CD, DVD or BD. The problem is intrinsic to the CDFS (as defined in ISO 9660 + Joliet). Moreover, the brand and often the country in which the media was manufactured do matter, with newer media. Verbatim (Mitsubishi Kagaku Media - Made in Singapore) are the DVD+R DL of choice, for instance. There must be a best choice for BD-Rs, too, but I don't know which because I still have no hardware for them, and recordable blanks are very hard to come by, here, whatever the brand, and still too expensive for my taste. But I shall be reading your progress reports with interest, as I think BD-Rs may be an option, in the near future.

[Multibooter]

dencorso, on 24 April 2011 - 07:32 PM, said:

Path too deep and name too long are issues for any optical medium, be it CD, DVD or BD. The problem is intrinsic to the CDFS

Yes, but Nero v7.2.7.0 terminated burning with an error message and produced a Blu-ray coaster, twice, at the same overlong file name and burn time. When burning CDs and DVDs, Nero continues burning Ok and truncates the names on the burnt CD/DVD, so this may be a Blu-ray bug of Nero v7.2.7.0

Quote

Moreover, the brand and often the country in which the media was manufactured do matter, with newer media. Verbatim (Mitsubishi Kagaku Media - Made in Singapore) are the DVD+R DL of choice, for instance. There must be a best choice for BD-Rs, too, but I don't know which because I still have no hardware for them, and recordable blanks are very hard to come by, here, whatever the brand, and still too expensive for my taste. But I shall be reading your progress reports with interest, as I think BD-Rs may be an option, in the near future.

Fry's had a special, the 25-pack of BD-R disks cost $25. My favorite high-quality brand is Taiyo Yuden, made in Japan, for CDs and DVDs. I just checked ebay, Taiyo Yuden BD-Rs are about $1 a piece in the U.S, but I'm not sure whether they are made in Japan. Taiyo Yudens described as "made in Japan" are offered at ebay for $2.50 a piece http://cgi.ebay.com/...=item43a4e1a344
Also, the Kodak BD-Rs I have been using are "4x", while the Taiyo Yuden are "1-4x". I prefer to burn at a low speed, with good burn quality.

Unfortunately my Memorex Blu-ray burner was not on the compatibility list of the Taiyo Yuden BD-Rs... maybe another reason to return it.

This post has been edited by Multibooter: 24 April 2011 - 09:15 PM

[dencorso]

Sure.
Taiyo Yuden is my choice, too, for CD-Rs and DVD-Rs.
But for DVD+Rs and DVD+R DLs, Mitsubishi Kagaku (Japan or Singapore) is peerless.
I've never used DVD-R DL nor BD-R, so I cannot talk about those from 1st hand experience.
My LG GSA-H44N SuperMulti Burner is able to burn DVD-R DLs, but I never bought such media, although I confess I never looked very hard for them, since the DVD+R DLs are reasonably easy to find.

[LoneCrusader]

Multibooter, on 24 April 2011 - 04:49 PM, said:

ImgBurn according to their website http://www.imgburn.com/ burns Blu-ray under Win98. Are there any issues installing ImgBurn if Nero Burning ROM (e.g. v7.2.7) is already installed? Which version of ImgBurn is preferrable under Win98?

I believe version 2.5.0.0 was the last version without some "garbage ware" included, toolbars, etc etc. It's the version that I use, although as I stated in the other thread I have not experimented any with Blu-Ray yet.

[Multibooter]

dencorso, on 24 April 2011 - 09:49 PM, said:

Taiyo Yuden is my choice, too, for CD-Rs and DVD-Rs.
But for DVD+Rs and DVD+R DLs, Mitsubishi Kagaku (Japan or Singapore) is peerless.

Somehow my horizon hasn't gone beyond CD-minus and DVD-minus when I have written about CDs and DVDs. I have no experience with DVD+ media because my 11-year-old Inspiron laptops have old Panasonic burners inside which cannot read/write DVD+, only DVD- and DVD-RAM. I never got around to another upgrade of the internal burners of my laptops, even if I use more modern burners in my desktop and in external enclosures. In order to maintain compatibility between all my computers, I just stuck with minus media.

This principle of the lowest common denominator, between my 11-year-old laptop and the dual-core desktop, will also determine whether I will actually use Blu-ray or not. If I should not be able to read Blu-ray disks with my 11-year-old Inspiron 7500 laptop, the Blu-ray burner and the Blu-ray disks will end up in a box in the basement.

I am optimistic, however, that I will be able to get a Blu-ray burner to work Ok inside an external SATA enclosure, connected to my old laptop via a Vantec eSATA PCCard. With a little luck I'll also be able to burn Blu-ray disks with my old P3 750MHz laptop, under Win98 and WinXP. The box of my memorex Blu-ray burner lists as system requirement: P3 800MHz, P4 1.8GHz for fastest results.

This post has been edited by Multibooter: 25 April 2011 - 01:07 AM

[Multibooter]

LoneCrusader, on 25 April 2011 - 12:02 AM, said:

Multibooter, on 24 April 2011 - 04:49 PM, said:

ImgBurn according to their website http://www.imgburn.com/ burns Blu-ray under Win98. Are there any issues installing ImgBurn if Nero Burning ROM (e.g. v7.2.7) is already installed? Which version of ImgBurn is preferrable under Win98?

I believe version 2.5.0.0 was the last version without some "garbage ware" included, toolbars, etc etc. It's the version that I use, although as I stated in the other thread I have not experimented any with Blu-Ray yet.

Thanks LoneCrusader, I checked, ImgBurn v2.5.5.0 apparently does not install the Ask Toolbar anymore, but it's not on the changelog page http://www.imgburn.c...p?act=changelog only that with v2.5.2.0 the Ask Toolbar became optional.

I have successfully burnt with ImageBurn v2.5.5.0 under Win98 a Blu-ray disk. So there are at least 2 programs which can burn Blu-ray disks under Win98.

On the downside, the quality of the Blu-ray disk burnt with ImgBurn was just as bad as with Nero v7.2.7.0 under Win98. When I burnt under WinXP a Blu-ray disk with Nero v7.11.10.0c (last build of Nero 7, does not run under Win98), the quality of the burnt disk was 0/100, i.e. near-coaster. The low burn quality is apparently not caused by the software or the operating system used. Possible culprits are the Blu-ray burner, the BD-R media or the high writing speed (4x, 17,980 KB/s). ImgBurn indicates that the memorex burner/firmware has only a single 4x writing speed for Blu-Ray disks, maybe another burner with 1x, 2x and 4x writing speed can produce better results.

The low burn quality indicated by Nero CD-DVD Speed v4.7.7.15 for the burnt Blu-Ray disks seem to be correct: A binary compare with Beyond Compare of the 10.3GB Blu-ray disk with its original source took 1 hour and 13 minutes, while the burning of the disk with ImgBurn took just 11 minutes. Beyond Compare probably had to repeat disk reads many times in order to read the poorly-burnt Blu-Ray disk correctly.

[Multibooter]

One of the reasons I got the memorex Blu-ray burner was to help me decide which last version of Nero Burning ROM I should install under Win98.

The last build of Nero 6 is v6.6.1.15d and the modification date of nero.exe in the install-to directory is 26-Sep-2007.
The last Win98-compatible build of Nero 7, which is v7.2.7.0, has an older installer file, digitally signed 23-Aug-2006, and the modification date of nero.exe in the install-to directory is 21-Aug-2006.

So the higher version number v7.2.7.0 is over a year older than the lower version number v6.6.1.15, which could appear as a paradox.

I test-installed the more recent v6.6.1.15 under Win98. It did not have a Blu-ray selection, only CD and DVD. (Older Nero v6.6.0.13, which I have been using before, did have a Blu-ray selection, but was not able to burn a Blu-ray disk). Since I consider the ability to burn Blu-ray disks as essential, Nero v7.2.7.0 is the preferred last version of Nero under Win98.

This post has been edited by Multibooter: 25 April 2011 - 11:18 PM

[Foxbat]

Multibooter, on 25 April 2011 - 11:16 PM, said:

The last build of Nero 6 is v6.6.1.15d and the modification date of nero.exe in the install-to directory is 26-Sep-2007.
The last Win98-compatible build of Nero 7, which is v7.2.7.0, has an older installer file, digitally signed 23-Aug-2006, and the modification date of nero.exe in the install-to directory is 21-Aug-2006.

So the higher version number v7.2.7.0 is over a year older than the lower version number v6.6.1.15, which could appear as a paradox.

Nero 6 did not suddenly end with the release of Nero 7. When 7 was the latest version, 6 was still still supported with maintenance releases, so the higher versions of 6 will be dated more recently than the earlier versions of 7 due to the support cycle overlap.

[Multibooter]

There was apparently a Nero Blu-ray HD DVD Video Plug-in for Nero v7.2, but it's not available at Nero's current web site now. Here descriptions from the wayback machine:
http://web.archive.o...deo-plugin.html
http://web.archive.o...re-blu-ray.html
I have no idea where one could still get it. In any case, Nero v7.2.7 can burn Blu-ray disks under Win98 without this Plug-in, but it would be nice not to have to install another software besides Nero, just for playing Blu-ray disks/movies under Win98.

The general description of Nero v7.2.7 can also be found in the wayback machine:
http://web.archive.o...-nero7-98me.php

Help files could be downloaded from Nero, but the old link is now 404:
ftp://ftp6.nero.com/...ro7_chm_eng.exe
No idea where one could get the Help files for v7.2.7 now

The version history/release notes for Nero v7.2.7 can be found in the wayback machine:
http://web.archive.o...ease_Notes.html
http://web.archive.o...ero_Burning_ROM
The release notes there apparently list incorrectly for Nero v7.5.1.1 (does NOT run under Win98 anymore): "New Features: Blu-ray disc data recording". This is incorrect since the earlier v7.2.7.0 can already write Blu-ray data disks and contains a selector icon for "Blu-ray Disc Copy".
Maybe in the release note for v7.5.1.1 they meant "HD DVD" recording, for which v7.2.7.0 does not have a selection, while the last build of v7 (v7.11.10.0), for example, does have this "HD DVD" media selection, besides CD, DVD and Blu-ray Disc.

Any ideas, also via PM, are welcome.

This post has been edited by Multibooter: 26 April 2011 - 09:39 AM

[loblo]

You're not too gifted for googling, are you?

http://www.nero.com/...-helpfiles.html

http://www.nero.com/...o7-manuals.html

[Multibooter]

Multibooter, on 26 April 2011 - 09:14 AM, said:

Help files could be downloaded from Nero, but the old link is now 404:
ftp://ftp6.nero.com/...ro7_chm_eng.exe
No idea where one could get the Help files for v7.2.7 now.

loblo, on 26 April 2011 - 10:51 AM, said:

http://www.nero.com/...-helpfiles.html
http://www.nero.com/...o7-manuals.html

Thanks loblo, but I was there too already. The installer file for Nero v7.2.7.0 is digitally signed 23-Aug-2006, and the help files downloadable from the links above have a file modification date (inside the zip file of the "All in one download package") of 26-Oct-2007, over a year later. I would suspect that these currently downloadable Help files are different from those for v7.2.7.0 because there was a major developmental change after v7.2.7.0 (no Win98-compatibility anymore) and the currently downloadable Help files have a file modification date more recent than v7.2.7.0. The currently downloadable Help files should be good for a later build, e.g. v7.11.10.0, but I am not sure about v7.2.7.0.

Somebody who has downloaded the Nero 7 Help files around Sep-2006 could clarify the matter with a simple binary compare.

There are for example 2 different versions of Nero CD-DVD Speed v4.7.7.15, one has the modification date 22-Jan-2008 and runs under WinXP but not under Win98, the other has a modification date of 8-Jan-2008 and runs under Win98 (is the last version for Win98). User interface and features appear to be the same, however.

Update 8-May-2011: The version of Nero CD-DVD Speed v4.7.7.15 which works with Win98 has the filename "CDSpeed.exe", is not digitally signed, has 1,785,856 bytes, its MD5 hash is 5599933A466538F765CC66583EE4A6E9 and MiTeC EXE Explorer displays a timestamp of 9-Jan-2008. No idea where it can be obtained now.
The WinXP version of Nero CD-DVD Speed v4.7.7.15 has the same filename "CDSpeed.exe", is digitally signed 22-Jan-2008, has 2,598,184 bytes and MiTeC EXE Explorer displays a timestamp of 22-Jan-2008. It gets installed with Nero v7.11.10.0c into \Nero Toolkit\,

Any ideas about the Nero Blu-ray plugin? I have been looking quite intensively for it, to no avail. This seems to be a quite elusive butterfly.

This post has been edited by Multibooter: 08 May 2011 - 09:44 PM

[allen2]

This website has trial versions of many old nero versions and 7.5.1 seems to be the lastest for 98.

This post has been edited by allen2: 26 April 2011 - 01:50 PM

[loblo]

I think those help files are mostly good as releases notes for subsequent versions don't show many changes, mostly it's vista support and bugfixes.

http://www.filehippo...changelog/1493/
http://www.nero.com/...ease-notes.html

[loblo]

As for a blu-ray player running under Windows 98, for lack of the blu-ray plugin for the Nero Media Player 7, I think the choice is very limited, Zoom Player as far as I can see, not sure there is anything else.