[scrapser]

Steven W, on 26 June 2011 - 06:37 AM, said:

I'd suggest eliminating all the potential issues you may have and a re-install. Use one of the IDE hard drives, take out one of the memory modules, restore the optimized defaults (perhaps disable SATA support), and do a clean install, then see where things are.

Oh yeah, use your CRT until you get other things figured out.

I looked at my BIOS but cannot find where to disable SATA. I'll keep looking and do a search online for the answer.

[Steven W]

Are you absolutely certain you have to install First Edition? The Second Edition update CD that I used to have would allow you to simply insert the FE CD at sometime during the install to prove that you're eligible to use the upgrade CD.

As for disabling SATA, it may not be possible. I don't think it should matter as long as you're using an IDE drive.

This post has been edited by Steven W: 26 June 2011 - 10:33 AM

[scrapser]

Steven W, on 26 June 2011 - 10:26 AM, said:

Are you absolutely certain you have to install First Edition? The Second Edition update CD that I used to have would allow you to simply insert the FE CD at sometime during the install to prove that you're eligible to use the upgrade CD.

As for disabling SATA, it may not be possible. I don't think it should matter as long as you're using an IDE drive.

I tried using the UPDATE disc. This is not an "UPGRADE" disc by the way. I bought it from Microsoft directly for less then $20 and it was mailed to me. It has its own product code on the case. On the front of the case in the upper left corner it says, "For users of Windows 98". In the middle of the label it says, "Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition Updates". At the bottom it says, "Includes system updates, Internet Explorer 5, Internet Connection Sharing, and more".

The readme file says it must be installed over an existing copy of Win98 (or Win95) but I could swear I had found a way online to fool it into thinking I had Windows installed on the computer so it would be a fresh install. The file also says it will not install over DOS. It does not have an autostart file. You must manual execute the setup file to get it started. When I do so with no windows installed, it says it cannot find windows so there is no way to start the install and use the earlier Win98 CD later to prove ownership.

I remember doing a trick where I created a "Windows" folder on the C drive and created a blank file with a specific name but lost that information. I think that trick was to fool the disk into think Win95 was already installed but I'm not positive. Wish I could find the trick again.

This post has been edited by scrapser: 26 June 2011 - 01:03 PM

[Steven W]

Disreguard the previous contents of this post, you have the Update CD, I had the Upgrade CD. So, I guess you have no choice but to install FE first. I bought mine quite a while after it had been out, so I guess MS just started charging less for the Upgrade CD.

This post has been edited by Steven W: 26 June 2011 - 01:31 PM

[scrapser]

Still having the same problem. I found an article online where someone reported the same problem trying to use the update CD to update Win98FE to Win98SE and was getting the "not enough conventional memory to check hard drives". The admin of the site told him:

"Setup was unable to run ScanDisk to check your hard drives. This could be because of low conventional memory or your disk contains errors that Scandisk cannot fix when run from Setup. To work around these errors, reboot your system to MS-DOS mode and run ScanDisk /all. Then, run Setup again. If Setup still fails, reboot to MS-DOS mode and run Scandisk /all /surface. This will take a little longer, but it will ensure your hard disks are in good shape. If, after running ScanDisk with these options, Setup still won't continue, you should run Setup /is to bypass ScanDisk."

For the heck of it I tried running "Setup /is" and got the update CD to finally run but it still bogs down at the splash screen during each installation restart. I think there must be something wrong with system memory or memory management (I'm not fluent on these things...just inferring things). One thing I noticed but haven't mentioned until now...during installation, I see at least three CMD windows popup in quick order and barely get to read them but they are all showing the path to the CD drive. I'm thinking the system memory has everything running so slow these windows are actually visible whereas in the past they would go by so quickly you don't see them.

I guess I will completely dismantle the entire computer and try cleaning all the contacts if that sounds like it might help.

This post has been edited by scrapser: 26 June 2011 - 05:03 PM

[Steven W]

So you now have Second Edition installed? If so I'd try do what I suggest previously, install 7-zip, get this download:

http://www.nvidia.co..._udp_win9x_4.27

Save it to a new folder on the desktop, extract it's contents (Right-click, point to 7-zip--Extract files). Go into the device manager, look for stuff that has exclamation points, use the device manager and point to each of the six folders (the ones you just extracted) and see if Windows finds a suitable driver. (one of the folders is for Nvidia memory controllers).

I'm assuming this computer is getting connected, if not use another PC, download 7-zip and the above file and burn a CD.

Whether or not this works, look for anything labeled USB in the Device Manager, and choose Uninstall, Reboot, Go into the BIOS Setting and see if you can disable USB 2.0. Reboot see if things work better.

I understand this may not work, but it's worth a shot.

Edit: You may want to look for something like 'PCI Standard RAM Controller' in the device manager and even if it says it's working properly see if the INF in the MemCtl folder will update it.

Further Edit: This is old, but may provide some clues:

ftp://download.nvidi...stall_guide.pdf

This post has been edited by Steven W: 26 June 2011 - 08:16 PM

[Arminius]

scrapser, on 26 June 2011 - 09:17 AM, said:

I looked at my BIOS but cannot find where to disable SATA. I'll keep looking and do a search online for the answer.

There may be no "disable SATA" option per se, rather the SATA channel will become disabled by selecting "Legacy IDE" or "PATA" only (the terminology varies) instead of enabling either of these two in addition to SATA. You should see an immediate change in the virtual memory dialogue box.

I really don't like installing 9x on very large partitions myself. I would suggest you go no larger than 32GB, get 98SE installed and working, and then use one of the free disk utilities to enlarge the partition if you must.

If you start over from scratch as I suspect you may have to, I suggest you try installing the large IDE update 243450 on 98FE before trying to update to 98SE.
http://download.micr.../243450USA8.EXE

After you get 98SE installed I suggest installing 243450 again as 98SE and 98FE have different versions of the updated file inside the same installer. I also recommend installing the Windows IDE hard drive cache package 273017 for 98SE.
http://download.micr.../273017USA8.EXE

These updates may not help much with your problem but you seem to have several issues going on at the same time.

A bit of history.
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Windows_XP

[scrapser]

Arminius,
You just may have hit on the answer. When I last installed Win98 back when I was actually using it, I remember installing it on a small partition, then using the Partition Manager that's part of System Commander to expand the size back to what I wanted. I'm pretty sure I used a 20 gig partition and later expanded it to 40 gigs.

I have the same hard drives I was using back then installed in the box I'm setting up now. One is 120 gigs and the other is 80 gigs. I used the 80 gig for data backup and split the 120 into two partitions 80/40 (it's all coming back to me now). I put WinXP Pro on the 80 gig partition and Win98 on the 40 but had to start with a small partition first.

I'm at work and will have to wait until tonight to try this out! My face will be bright red if this was the culprit all along.

[scrapser]

Well I still have the same problem. I tried installing using one hard drive with a 20 gig partition, then again with an 8 gig partition. I have only one stick of ram and one hard drive, CRT monitor, and video card. The RAM stick is in the correct slot for this mobo.

I'm stumped. The reason I tried 8 gigs was because I remembered when I bought my Gateway computer with Win98, it arrived with only an 8 gig partition on the drive. I can't remember what I did to fix it, that was 13 years ago. I didn't buy System Commander 7 until 2000 when I bought a Gateway computer with WinXP Pro installed. My boss suggested getting System Commander when I told him I was hoping to find a way to install Win98 and dual boot.

I found a forum discussion where a person was reporting the same problem (splash screen seems to hang). I think he gave up before waiting to see if it would eventually finish booting and assumed it was frozen. Anyway, the responders all recommended upgrading to WinXP so the discussion fizzled.

I'm not sure what else I can try now.

When I ran the very first install, I used a WD SATA 320 gig drive with a 125 gig partition. I had my modern LCD monitor hooked up, too. This led me to think it was either a monitor or SATA drive issue. Since then I have tried both old IDE drives but not until tonight did I try a really small partition.

Perhaps there's something wrong with the hardware. All I can say is at one time I had Win98 (updated to Win98SE) installed on this mobo, RAM, HS, video and sound card. I also had an ethernet connection since it was my main computer. I can try disabling everything to do with the onboard LAN (and anything else...the board has an onboard sound module called, "Karajan"). Beyond that I'm at a complete loss.

[scrapser]

I have to apologize and thank everyone here who tried to help me get this problem resolved. I just did some research and tried to trigger my memory of the chain of events as I upgraded my computers over the years. One thing struck me...when I bought my current sound card. I know for a fact I never used it for Win98 because I bought it roughly 6 months after I built my first computer (the hardware I'm trying to set up now). I bought the hardware to build my first computer in May 2005 and bought the Creative Labs Sound Blaster Elite Pro in October 2005. This means I had Win98 and WinXP on my last Gateway and could never have had it installed on this hardware I'm trying to use.

Anyway, it was good of you to offer help. At least I have a new resource for other issues should they come up.

Thanks again folks! I think I'll ponder whether I want to go through the hurdles of collecting all the hardware I would need to set up Win98. For now I think I will take a breather.

[scrapser]

Well after over a year I am back. Please ignore the last post I made regarding not having Win98SE installed on these components. I'm now giving it another try. I'm using one of the original IDE hard drives (120 gig) I had used previously to install Win98 and the update CD for SE. I'm at the point where I installed Win98 and got the stutter/lag behavior each time it reboots. I then tried the SE Update CD and still get the "not enough conventional memory" fail. I checked and I have 573K free conventional memory. Right now I'm trying the "setup /is" approach to install SE. On the first restart, the splash screen ran normally for about 3 seconds and I saw the hard drive light flicker during this time. Then it bogged down again. I'll let it sit and run through for a while and see if I can get past this.

I don't have it yet but I just bought a brand new Win98SE CD factory sealed. I will probably clear off all this and try running that on a clean reformatted and scanned hard drive (20 gig partition to start).

Please let me know if you have any other tips I might try. I am not giving up on this. I think it's just a matter of identifying what the problem(s) is.

Editted to add:
I finished installing the SE Update CD. The stuttering splash screen behavior continues on each restart as it did previously.

This post has been edited by scrapser: 16 October 2012 - 05:53 PM

[Steven W]

Did you ever try limiting memory usage in the Win.ini file?

[386Enh]
MaxPhysPage=30000

[vcache]
MaxFileCache=393216


The bits in brackets are sections of the Win.ini file, add them if needed, just add the lines if the sections exist.

Edit (More Info):

http://support.micro...om/?kbid=253912

This post has been edited by Steven W: 16 October 2012 - 07:52 PM

[scrapser]

Gave that a try but made no difference.

I have to say something here about what I remember. I originally built this computer with 1 gig of RAM. I clearly remember removing one stick to install Win98/SE when I first put it together in 2005. After it installed, I changed the win.ini file [vcache] to 524288 and then re-installed the second stick to be available for my WinXP OS which I installed 2nd. I don't remember touching the [386Enh] but could have.

Also, right now I have the installation on a 20gig partition to avoid the limits of Win98.

It's odd the way this is playing out. Once Win98 finishes booting it runs fine. I keep trying to remember what it was I had to do to eliminate this issue which is why I'm hoping someone else may know the answer.

[ragnargd]

Hi,

regarding the IR-entry: I had that myself - although i did't have any IR-Adapter in the first place.
While strolling through the BIOS, near the config of the COM-Ports, i found it, and switched it of. Thereafter, the exclamation mark was gone (of course).

Another source of IR may be some types of soundblaster. I have an Audigy 2 Platinum, which has a 5,25" bay with quite a number of ports, among them that IR-port. I installed the driver, and that was it.

Regarding the memory and your original W98FE: I was able to install FE with 512 MB only, and added the other 512MB thereafter. Perhaps you did that, after installing the SE? Just an idea, not that it matters, now that you have SE full version...

If you get your NF4-Mobo running with that 7800 with W98SE, you'll be my hero. Good luck! (Tread carefully now, you are on slippery terrain... )

Regards,
Ragnar G.D.

[scrapser]

I thought I would explain something here to help clarify how I'm approaching this project. I know it sounds hokey but we all operate in our own way.

This computer was my first homebuilt which I purchased in 2005. Prior to this I had a Gateway GP6-450 that had a geForce 6800 Ultra graphics card that I bought later to upgrade from the original geForce 4400 ti. I purchased a BFG 7800 GTX graphics card for my first homebuilt. I mention this because I have a memory trigger (something I clearly remember) when I upgraded to my second homebuilt in 2007. My second computer was a socket 775 with a E6600 dual core CPU. When I bought these components to upgrade, I also bought a BFG 8800 graphics card. I clearly remember discovering with the 8800 graphics card I would no longer be able to use Win98 since it did not come with Win98 drivers. I remember being disappointed like it was yesterday.

I also have a distinct memory of struggling in the confines under my desk to pull the second 512 MB RAM stick when I learned Win98 doesn't work with more than 512 megs of RAM...then having to go back and reinstall it after I was done and had set the win.ini file to limit recognized RAM to 512.

I just don't remember what it was I had to do to get it boot without the lag. I don't remember if I even had the lag issue back then. I have a vague memory of finding something in a forum (I think it was DFI Street which sadly no longer exists) but the only thing I clearly remember was learning what I had to do in the win.ini file to limit the RAM recognized. I was hoping whatever the solution was would not be so hard to find again. I have my order history at NewEgg to reconstruct which parts I ordered and when. This also helps recall of what I did.

I think this computer's hardware is okay. I have tried installing WinXP Pro using a SATA HD with no issues at all.

[scrapser]

ragnargd, on 18 October 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

Hi,

regarding the IR-entry: I had that myself - although i did't have any IR-Adapter in the first place.
While strolling through the BIOS, near the config of the COM-Ports, i found it, and switched it of. Thereafter, the exclamation mark was gone (of course).

Another source of IR may be some types of soundblaster. I have an Audigy 2 Platinum, which has a 5,25" bay with quite a number of ports, among them that IR-port. I installed the driver, and that was it.

Regarding the memory and your original W98FE: I was able to install FE with 512 MB only, and added the other 512MB thereafter. Perhaps you did that, after installing the SE? Just an idea, not that it matters, now that you have SE full version...

If you get your NF4-Mobo running with that 7800 with W98SE, you'll be my hero. Good luck! (Tread carefully now, you are on slippery terrain... )

Regards,
Ragnar G.D.

Thanks. I'm not giving up. It would be sweet to get past this issue. I will look at the BIOS and see if I can find the IR-Adapter entry. My SoundBlaster card is a 5.1+MP3 Live!. I bought it factory sealed off eBay.

[scrapser]

Just thought I would mention I just found a thread on Anandtech dated 2002 where I guy is discussing that he is running Win98SE on his DFI UT nF4 Ultra-D board (the same one I have).

[submix8c]

Well, don't this beat all...

Have you guys looked here, particularly here?

This post has been edited by submix8c: 18 October 2012 - 03:46 PM

[scrapser]

submix8c, on 18 October 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

Well, don't this beat all...

Have you guys looked here, particularly here?

Thanks for posting those links. After doing some extensive research I have found only two other forums/threads where the owner discusses installing Win98 on the nF4 Ultra-D board. In one case, the owner asks as I did about the slow start up at the splash screen. Nobody replies to his question for help and in the end he too mentions his own finding there is no support for Win98 on an nF4 board (but then asks why does Win98 install?). The second post has the owner asking about the same problem but the thread goes nowhere.

All I can say is I installed it on my board back in 2005 and there was some setting in the BIOS that eliminates the stalled startup issue. I wish I had made a note of it. I got a response on the Clunk forum where a member states he used the same trick and will dig through his notes and try to find what it is and post it. But even so, I'm starting to wonder at the wisdom of forcing it to work now that I know it was never meant to be installed in the first place. Back in 2005 I was naive about chipset drivers and never even thought to install them on that Win98 installation. The mobo utility CD came with WinXP drivers and I did install them there only because I explored the CD contents, found them, and asked about it. Oddly, it never occurred to me there should be a set for Win98 as well. I guess I just assumed they were something special above and beyond what was normally required by an operating system since up till that point I had never had to deal with chipset drivers on my computers (they were all store bought).

[scrapser]

Update

I ended up buying an old Gateway 700C tower off eBay. It has a socket 473 CPU and the 850 chipset. I completely dismantled the tower and all components inside, cleaned everything thoroughly (even dismantled the PSU for cleaning), put it all back together and it works famously.

So now I have:

Intel 1.8 gHz CPU
512 megs PC800 RAM
Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 (brand new off eBay and not an OEM card)
geForce 2 MX400 graphics card
Monster 3D2 (Voodoo 2) 3D accelerator (glide)
Gateway VX920 19" Diamondtron NF monitor (used less than a month and in pristine condition)

Thanks to all who have given me what help they could.