[jaclaz]

larryb123456, on 24 March 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

@jaclaz
This Post has absolutely no relevance on a Art thread, but I guess it would qualify in the sense of "mental" Art.
I'm putting the Post here, thinking that you might see it.
How did you get so *absolutely fluent* in writing the English language, even down to the infinitesimal nuances?
If one didn't know better, they would think you were from a primarily-English-speaking country.

Better late than never.
I have a number of idols or myths in literature, among them I would rate in the very first places G.K. Chesterton (which specifically is irrelevant if not as an excellent writer of what I find a very good English) and Joseph Conrad.
I mean, a polish ship captain becoming one of the greatest novelists in another language?
If he managed to do that, I can try to at least write posts on a board in a decent English.
Thank you for your appraciation, but I still think that my non-native-English condition can be spotted allright.....

larryb123456, on 24 March 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

When you write (or speak) English, how do you "turn off" the Italian part of your brain?

That's rather easy, actually, the hard part is to try and switch the Vulcan logic part off.

larryb123456, on 24 March 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

English is the only language I know.
If I knew another language, when writing something it would be about a half-and-half combination of English and the other language (i.e., absolute gobbledegook).

No, it won't happen, when you will learn to a certain level another language, the "switch" simply becomes automatic.
The advantage for a Latin to learn English (or German for that matters) is that you have *everything* completely different.
It is much more difficult to learn properly another Latin language, as the amount of "false friends" :
http://en.wikipedia....ki/False_friend
is enormously bigger.

larryb123456, on 24 March 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

Did you learn English as a young child?

Only up to a certain point, some basis, the rest is through reading (and of course some experience in life, I have been working for some time in English speaking countries or however in positions where English was the "common language" ).

jaclaz

[larryb123456]

Many, Many Thanks, bphlpt, for your *excellent commentary*.

Figured you would want to know.
Most definitely !!!

I have kind of gotten into the habit of "red-pulsing" my letters just on the outline, since I can see the red O.K.
I use red since it seems to fit in with all-color-schemed backgrounds, and it is kind of the "universal-attention-getting" color (i.e., witness the red-flashing lights on police cars, ambulances, etc.).
Also, blue, green, etc. pulses might look "ugly" on a given background.
What color(s) can *you* absolutely see, if I used them for the pulses?

When I have black-outlined white letters, and red-pulse the outlines, the sudden transition between the black-to-red *guarantees*, for me at least, great pulse visibility.
A lot of the userbars I have shown in this thread have such black-outlined white letters with red pulses replacing the black outlines. (For example, the Tripredacus animation in Post # 240, http://postimage.org/image/4y2xicmub/)
Can you see these red pulsations any better, bphlpt?

A black (or dark gray) outlined letter was not appropriate for Primus -- (I tried it and it didn't look right) -- since the "appropriate" color scheme, IMO, was brown and purple to coordinate with the colors in the face.

For the Primus userbar, "red-pulsing" the letters themselves -- (rather than the outlines) -- might(?) have been a much better option, since the light-brown outline would not have provided such a low contrast with the red letter as to make reading the (light-brown-outline)/(red-letter) combination difficult. To explain: for example, red pixel letters with a black outline are hard to read, since there isn't much contrast between the 2 colors at the *small* 7-pixel (including outline) size.

Why I used "might(?)" in the last paragraph, and this is the "fundamental question":
You've established that you can't see well the 1-pixel-wide red *outlines*.
You suggested making the letters themselves red.
BUT, the letters themselves are only 1-pixel wide too.
So, are you going to be able to see the red letters any better than the red outlines?

Thanks Again, bphlpt !

Awaiting your comments.

This post has been edited by larryb123456: 05 April 2012 - 12:14 PM

[larryb123456]

Hello, jaclaz:

Better late than never.
You are so correct !!!
I cried myself to sleep many nights thinking that you were neglecting me on purpose. (LOL!)

I can try to at least write posts on a board in a decent English.
*Much better* than "decent".

the hard part is to try and switch the Vulcan logic part off
Funny!

the "switch" simply becomes automatic
I would guess that "automatic" is not "universal", but that it depends on the intelligence (among other things, etc.) of the individual.

I have been working for some time in English speaking countries
I'm sure that has been of great benefit in *maintaining* your English fluency at its high level.

Thanks again for responding, jaclaz.

[bphlpt]

Hey Larry! Let our good natured, all in good fun and hope to learn something, banter begin. [If I use any color or graphic related term incorrectly please forgive and correct me.]

larryb123456, on 05 April 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

... I use red since it seems to fit in with all-color-schemed backgrounds, and it is kind of the "universal-attention-getting" color (i.e., witness the red-flashing lights on police cars, ambulances, etc.)....

Stop signs were originally yellow, and police more often, around here, use flashing blue lights. Flashing red lights have also been known to give certain people epileptic seizures. Certain shades of solid red letters against a certain shade of solid blue background seems, to me, to be flashing even when it is not and gives me a headache and is almost impossible for me to read. But I agree that red seems to go better with the color schemes I have seen you use.

larryb123456, on 05 April 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

...What color(s) can *you* absolutely see, if I used them for the pulses?..

Nothing is ever absolute, it's always relative - as you've said, a matter of contrast. Factors include color, amount of the color, brightness, background, and context, among others. It also helps to have something to compare it to. For example, if I'm driving at night on a deserted road and come over a hill and come upon a red light that is either yellow or red and it is too dark or rainy for me to see the outline of the light, I can't be positive which it is - yellow or red. So I slow down. If the light moves and gets darker/duller in color then that means it was yellow and now it is red. If it doesn't change, it was already red. In either case I'm already slowing down so I'm prepared. The green lights do not look green, but rather a slightly off-white, not unlike some street lights. So again in the dark and rain if I can't see the traffic light outline I might not even realize there is a light there at all. But if it's green then it really doesn't matter. Regardless, I've never had any problem whatsoever driving in the last 42 years because of my "condition".

larryb123456, on 05 April 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

When I have black-outlined white letters, and red-pulse the outlines, the sudden transition between the black-to-red *guarantees*, for me at least, great pulse visibility... For example, the Tripredacus animation in Post # 240...

larryb123456, on 05 April 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

For the Primus userbar, "red-pulsing" the letters themselves -- (rather than the outlines) -- might(?) have been a much better option, since the light-brown outline would not have provided such a low contrast with the red letter as to make reading the (light-brown-outline)/(red-letter) combination difficult. To explain: for example, red pixel letters with a black outline are hard to read, since there isn't much contrast between the 2 colors at the *small* 7-pixel (including outline) size.

larryb123456, on 05 April 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

... this is the "fundamental question":
You've established that you can't see well the 1-pixel-wide red *outlines*.
You suggested making the letters themselves red.
BUT, the letters themselves are only 1-pixel wide too.
So, are you going to be able to see the red letters any better than the red outlines?

Yes I can see the Tripredacus animation "better". I think you are right that the various differences in contrast to both the original outline color and the background compared to that of the Primus image are the reason that is true, since I would assume the "red" is the same in both color and dimension in both cases, and the letters themselves are the same color and dimension? (The images I included above are enlarged 400%.) But yet, to me, in the Tripredacus animation the red appears much brighter and the letters very slightly brighter. Against the respective backgrounds, the edge of the letters appears much sharper in the Tripredacus image, while the edge of the letters in the Pimus image appears almost fuzzy or blurry, since it blends in more with the background. I realize that this is sometimes a desired result, but I'm just saying ...

You are right that making the letters red instead of the outline will still result in a 1 pixel line, but it will be the white changing to red instead of the light-brown changing to red - a higher contrast change. If that doesn't work, you could also try changing BOTH the letter AND outline to red. That would give a 3 pixel width amount of color, so would be a larger amount of the color, and you would be changing the contrasts of both the outline and the letter, all while making no changes to the color palette. You could even change 3 letters at once - for one letter change both the outline and the letter, while for the letters on either side of that letter change only the outline. However that might be too extreme. I think you and I both appreciate subtlety.

In any case, you are the artist, and in this case the client as well, and color blind people are in the minority. But I knew you would want your work to be appreciated by as wide an audience as possible - otherwise, why post it anywhere at all?

Cheers and Regards my friend

This post has been edited by bphlpt: 05 April 2012 - 06:35 PM

[larryb123456]

Thanks, bphlpt, for the very-detailed and well-thought-out Post.

I had prepared a Post -- (that I think you might find interesting) -- before I saw your Post, and I'll present it here after I make some short responses to yours.

you could also try changing BOTH the letter AND outline to red. That would give a 3 pixel width amount of color, so would be a larger amount of the color
This wouldn't work in userbars having the small 5-pixel-tall bitmap letters with their 1-pixel outline. Consider the letter "E" for example. If we colored the letter AND the outline red, we would wind up with a solid-red rectangle. We'd have similar unreadable results for all the other letters too.
However, your concept is indeed applicable when using taller letters.
For example, when I have some text that looks a little too "scrawny", I commonly beef it up by giving it a 1, 2, 3, or even a 4 pixel outline (i.e., "stroke").
This is the "poor man's" way to "own" a lot of bold fonts. (lol)

I think you and I both appreciate subtlety.
For sure, on my end, bphlpt !
But it has to be *effective* subtlety.
Subtlety that is so subtle as to have no effect is a waste of time, IMO.
My Post here does concern what I feel is an example of effective subtlety in the Primus userbar.

But I knew you would want your work to be appreciated by as wide an audience as possible - otherwise, why post it anywhere at all?
I would tend to agree with your statement if it read, "I would want my work to be appreciated by a wide audience".
Eliminate the "as possible", because that could lead to my modifying (i.e., watering down) my *true* artistic intents, and that wouldn't be fair to my artistic "spirit".
Plus, you can't satisfy *everybody*.
As far as those artists who make art of absolutely no interest to *anyone* but *themselves*: an art teacher of mine called them "artistic masturbators".

Well, I'll now present the Post I had prepared.

Regarding bphlpt's Post concerning his not being able to see well the red pulsations in my Primus userbar:

I wanted to investigate a little further, *visually*, so I made two additional versions of the userbar.

Each version was really easy to make by using the following steps:
I copied all my JPEG frames for the version with the red pulsations into a new folder, opened each JPEG, looked for the red outline, colored in the outline with the new-version-outline color, and saved and closed each JPEG.
All this took about half an hour per version, including the animation.

In the first version, I "threw subtlety out the window" to achieve *maximum visibility* for the pulsations, just to see how that would look:

http://postimage.org/image/ygve5t8ld/



The outline color is not black, but it is very dark, and it was sampled from a color in the reddish-brown hair of the image.

As one can see, the dark pulsations are "out of place" with the softness of the rest of the image, and these pulsations compete too strongly for attention with the scrolling of the face images. (IMHO, of course.)

In the second version, I sampled a purple color from the image's tongue and adjusted its luminosity to get a good balance between subtlety and letter visibility.
This purple color is quite a bit darker than the light-brown outlines (so that contrast with the white letters would be strong), but the purple color essentially disappears into the purple-toned background, thereby leaving more or less just the white of the letters:

http://postimage.org/image/u771xlloh/



Even though this image is very "soft", I think it is effective, because the pulsations can be seen clearly because of the way the purple outlines "drop out" (essentially) leaving just the white letters to contrast with the surrounding light-brown outlines, which are always very visible.

Sincerely,
Larry

Added in a much later edit:
In the above discussion, where I said, "This purple color is quite a bit darker than the light-brown outlines", I misspoke.
I meant to say, "This purple color is somewhat darker than the light-brown outlines".

This post has been edited by larryb123456: 05 April 2012 - 09:51 PM

[Tripredacus]

larryb123456, on 05 April 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

I can try to at least write posts on a board in a decent English.
*Much better* than "decent".

I agree on this as well.

bphlpt, on 05 April 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

larryb123456, on 05 April 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

For the Primus userbar, "red-pulsing" the letters themselves -- (rather than the outlines) -- might(?) have been a much better option, since the light-brown outline would not have provided such a low contrast with the red letter as to make reading the (light-brown-outline)/(red-letter) combination difficult. To explain: for example, red pixel letters with a black outline are hard to read, since there isn't much contrast between the 2 colors at the *small* 7-pixel (including outline) size.

Yes I can see the Tripredacus animation "better". I think you are right that the various differences in contrast to both the original outline color and the background compared to that of the Primus image are the reason that is true, since I would assume the "red" is the same in both color and dimension in both cases, and the letters themselves are the same color and dimension? (The images I included above are enlarged 400%.) But yet, to me, in the Tripredacus animation the red appears much brighter and the letters very slightly brighter. Against the respective backgrounds, the edge of the letters appears much sharper in the Tripredacus image, while the edge of the letters in the Pimus image appears almost fuzzy or blurry, since it blends in more with the background. I realize that this is sometimes a desired result, but I'm just saying ...

When I look at this zoomed in look to the Primus version, I can see that there may be a color selection difference. Primus had used the pink/beige color in their album art, which may be why it was chosen in this example. However different looks may be achieved by using different "pulse" colors, including colors such as white or light gray.

Red would work well for mine as I have only presented images which use the white-red-black type images. While these are my favorite colors, that doesn't mean that those creating images or animations need to limit themselves to those colors.

[bphlpt]

@Larry,

Yes, even though the very dark outline is more noticeable, I think the purple color looks better. At least I can see it better than either of the images with red pulses, but still very subtle. But I really can only see what is truly happening by zooming in.

Larry, out of curiosity, what is the screen resolution and screen size you use on your system?

Cheers and Regards

[larryb123456]

Yes, bphlpt, I like the purple outline better also.

I forgot to say in my Post that I was making an image that would be easier for *you* to see.
I knew this, because all the images we have worked on together have contained purple/gray, etc. type colors, and you had no complaints then.

Larry, out of curiosity, what is the screen resolution and screen size you use on your system?
The screen resolution I prefer using is *very low*, at 848x480.
I like the resolution low so that my images (i.e., pixels) are rather large.
Larger pixels at 1600% magnification (the maximum in PS 5.0) makes coloring -- (when using the Pencil) -- much, much easier for me.
I have a small, wide-screen monitor, whose physical screen size -- (I just measured it with a ruler) -- is approximately 16"x9".
So, in other words, all this corresponds to an actual screen resolution of about 53 pixels/inch. I make all my PS images at a resolution "setting" of 72 pixels/inch in the program.
The next higher screen resolution that produces square pixels for me (without having to fiddle with adjustments, etc.) is 1280x720, and images (i.e., pixels) at this resolution are much too small for my liking.

This post has been edited by larryb123456: 05 April 2012 - 10:38 PM

[bphlpt]

The difference in screen sizes can also help explain why those of us on larger displays, with correspondingly smaller pixels, have a harder time seeing the colored pulsing effect unless the image is enlarged.

Cheers and Regards

[jaclaz]

larryb123456, on 05 April 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

I cried myself to sleep many nights thinking that you were neglecting me on purpose. (LOL!)

Hmmm.

jaclaz

Attached File(s)

•  highlyillogical.jpg (18.1K)
  Number of downloads: 2

[larryb123456]

@jaclaz

I have only one thing to say about "illogical", and that is, as even a young child would know:

"A implies B, B is true, therefore A is true" This is confusing, sometimes, because it looks so much like good logic: "A implies B, A is true, therefore B is true," known as Modus Ponens or affirmation of the antecedent, is one of the basic valid syllogisms. But affirmation of the consequent is definitely a fallacy.

So, I'll end this Post with this admonition:

Do not Modus my Ponens, jaclaz !!!

[larryb123456]

@ bphlpt

Following up on your last Post:

So that I could know for *sure* for *myself*, I changed my screen resolution to 1280x720 and looked at all my "pulsating" animations.

Everything was teeny-tiny on my monitor, of course, but even the subtle "purple-pulsed" letters appeared *crystal clear* to me.

Thank goodness, since I'm "somewhat an artist", I have eyes (vision) like a *hawk* when viewing things close up, like my monitor screen.

So, I guess one's ability to see teeny-tiny, subtle, pulsations would also depend on one's vision (as in 20/20, etc.).

[jaclaz]

IF Red is red THEN Green is green
http://inquiry.mcdan...us-ponens-form/
AND:

Spoiler

AND there are no artists, but quite a few illustrators behind the green glass door :
http://www.msfn.org/...een-glass-door/



jaclaz

[larryb123456]

@jaclaz

I occasionally -- (really, it is more like 99+% of the time) -- have the mental capacity of Forrest Gump.
Such was the case when I tried to use the Modus Ponens "flash app".
I don't have a clue how to operate it.
Would you be so kind as to enlighten me ?
I crave enlightenment, because I most definitely want to Modus my Ponens and Ponens my Modus, as well.
If this works out feeling good to me, I'll try to Modus my Modus and Ponens my Ponens, as well.
But, of course, I'll do all this "behind closed doors", because I surely don't want to get arrested for "public indecency".

Your statement, "IF Red is red THEN Green is green", really doesn't apply for approximately 10% of the population, as bphlpt has discussed very recently in his Post # 249.
bphlpt's version of this statement would read something like this (I guess so, but I shouldn't speak for him. I should allow him to make his own Modus Ponens):
IF Red is red THEN Green is green.

Added in EDIT:
BTW, I've always thought that green women are very sexy. Almost as sexy as the purple women. For, as the well-known expression reads, "Spice is the Variety of Life" !!!

This post has been edited by larryb123456: 06 April 2012 - 12:40 PM

[bphlpt]

larryb123456, on 06 April 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

.. the Modus Ponens "flash app".
I don't have a clue how to operate it.
Would you be so kind as to enlighten me ?...

Quote

Add any proposition to the boxes marked ‘A’ and ‘B’ and press ‘Start’. The argument will be filled in.

Flash has to be enabled in your browser, of course.

After pressing Start, whatever you put in the "A" box will be moved between the "If" and "Then" and also next to the "P2:". Whatever you put in the "B" box will be moved after the "Then" and also under the line. But I must not get the whole point of the app, because it doesn't really make an impression on me. I guess the second way of writing the expression is the mathematical equivalent to the "If A Then B" version? I understood your explanation better, Larry.

As to the red and green letters you used in your last post, regardless whether they were struck through or not, at first glance they looked the same to me. Looking at them longer I could tell a difference, the struck through letters were easier since they have a larger volume of color, and if enlarged even more so.

Cheers and Regards

[larryb123456]

Thanks, bphlpt:

Yes, I have the *latest Flash version* and I followed the instructions to a "T", and I agree with you that:
"I must not get the whole point of the app, because it doesn't really make an impression on me."

So, you put something in the "A: box", say "A", and then something in the "B: box", say "B", and press "Start",
and THE SIMPLY AWE-INSPIRING AND AMAZING APP says,
P1: If "A" Then "B"
and
P2: "A" Therefore "B".

WELL, WHOOPTEE-DIDDLEY-DOO !!!

This app is another piece of JUNK, just like THAT PIECE OF JUNK GOOGLE TRANSLATE (LOL!), which made me look like an i.d.i.o.t when I tried to write jaclaz in Italian.

This post has been edited by larryb123456: 06 April 2012 - 08:38 PM

[CoffeeFiend]

[larryb123456]

Hello, CoffeeFiend:

I'm not colorblind, so I can see the message "I Secretly Loathe the colorblind!"

I guess colorblind people only see "I Heart (i.e., "Love") the colorblind!"

This is a very intelligent piece of "Conceptual Art", IMO, even though it is at the expense of the colorblind.

I sure hope bphlpt finds it funny, and is not offended by it.
(I don't think he will be offended at all, for he will know "where you're coming from".)

Seriously, those of use with all our faculties can't begin to appreciate the difficulties faced by "less fortunate" people.

I'm sure colorblindness has caused bphlpt problems that we could never even begin to imagine.

This post has been edited by larryb123456: 06 April 2012 - 06:01 PM

[bphlpt]

@CoffeeFiend - LOL - Very funny! (Not a well hidden message though - it was blurry, but I could still see it. But it was probably done that way on purpose. Can you imagine the irony if the colorblind person could not see the message and bought the shirt thinking it really said "I [heart] the colorblind!"? Now THAT would have been really funny!)

@Larry - Nah - it's just an inconvenience at times. It does keep people from being able to have certain jobs - a surgeon is pretty much out - and it was a real pain in school back in the day to be an Electrical Engineer (reading the resistor color codes was tough). But in World War II, colorblind people were actually sought out as bombardiers, because they were not fooled by camouflage as much as "regular" people. They were better able to ignore the colors and look only for the outlines and movement. Whenever I'm asked "What do you see?", I fall back on this analogy - Pretend I've never tasted a banana. Can you describe to me what one tastes like? - See, without a common frame of reference... We each see the way we always have seen, and until we're told different, we assume everyone else sees the same way. Those of us that are colorblind are definitely NOT "less fortunate". It's no different than being near-sighted, left-handed, or even just short. Other than the occasional annoyance it is no problem.

And don't be so hard on Google Translate. There are several translator programs out there, none of them are perfect, and each is usually better than the others in a different particular area. Jokes, idioms, sayings, even common expressions are all almost impossible to always translate correctly from one language to another. Part of the problem is those phrases are usually tied up with the culture or history of the people that speak that language. As humans, the general gist of those expressions is usually present in one way or the other in most cultures, but they're usually expressed differently. Jaclaz can give you an example of the Italian expression that is best expressed in English as "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" - it's a bit different. I saw him mention it somewhere but can't put my finger on it at the moment. How about the common English admonition to "Sleep tight." For a non-English speaker, how do you translate that? Tight? Compared to loose? LOL Anyway, I usually just uses those translators as a very rough guide. And if you're trying to translate something into a different language, you usually need to run it through the translator from English to ___, then back from ___ to English, to see if it's still what you thought it was, then if real important, find someone who speaks the language to double check things for you.

Cheers and Regards

This post has been edited by bphlpt: 06 April 2012 - 06:58 PM

[CoffeeFiend]

bphlpt, on 06 April 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

it's just an inconvenience at times

I guess it depends on which kind of color blindness and to what degree. Two of us in this house have a mild case of it (it's not like always 100% on or off from what I've been explained). Both of us see like 97% fine or whatever. I mostly have a problem telling between some particular colors that are close to each other (it's mostly a funny source of entertainment, telling each other they're wrong). One of my daughters (yeah, I know, it's WAY more prevalent in men and the most common type only affects men) simply can't see a couple of those numbers hidden in dot patterns when she gets her eye exam.

bphlpt, on 06 April 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

reading the resistor color codes was tough

BIG time. Or colors on some wire, like 25 pair cable that's widely used for communications. The problem is the exact same in both scenarios (at least for me it is): between a dark-ish red and brown, or a dark-ish orange and red. It's not uncommon to be completely unable to tell which one is which. Thankfully, when it comes to traditional color-coded resistors you can quickly and easily measure them. And with modern technology moving to SMT devices everywhere the problem is solved. The colors have been replaced by numbers... which creates a different problem: you need very good eyesight to read the tiony numbers. Especially on the smaller parts. Most 0805-sized parts are still easy to read but 0603-sized parts and smaller can be quite the challenge for the naked eye. if not outright impossible, especially for those with presbyopia.

I do find Google translate pretty handy for getting the general meaning of some text, or translating the odd word you've never seen now and then. It's not perfect but it's better than most other translation methods, other than having someone who speaks both fluently who can translate for you -- and even then it's not always an easy task for that person. There's 3 of us at work who proof-read or translate text. Most of the time we'll have at least two persons read it. One might come up with a better suited word for something, or turn a sentence that doesn't "feel right" into something that "flows better" (or even catch a typo the other has missed). Lots of things don't translate well like bphlpt said.

bphlpt, on 06 April 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

Jaclaz can give you an example of the Italian expression that is best expressed in English as "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" - it's a bit different.

I suspect that it translates differently in most languages. For example, in french one could say: "un tiens vaut mieux que deux tu l’auras" which has absolutely nothing to do with birds or bushes. It's also darn hard to translate that literally. You'd probably have to resort to something I enjoy far too much: verbing nouns.