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Windows 98 as high quality video player

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47 replies to this topic

#26
Sfor

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I did replace Ati Radeon 9000 AGPx4 with Nvidia GeForce FX 5500 AGPx8. There is a slight improvement in the performace, but it is not clearly visible.

Does anyone know the link to the Beta CoreAVC 2.0.0.0? The current version is a commercial software, apparently? Or, perhaps, the beta is the commercial software, as well.


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#27
loblo

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Does anyone know the link to the Beta CoreAVC 2.0.0.0? The current version is a commercial software, apparently? Or, perhaps, the beta is the commercial software, as well.

I found it in some codec pack, I doubt it's legit though.

http://codecpack.co/

#28
Sfor

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I did some further research with the FFDShow. It does support buffering frames in advance, but this option is switched off, by default. Also, it does not do much good, when CPU is too slow.

When playing with FFDShow OSD filter, I found the most useful informations is CPU load and video stream delay. The OSD filter does increase the CPU load a bit, but it can give a very good understanding of what is going on. In my particular case the video stream delay is constantly rising. When it reaches a certain configurable amount (default is 1500ms) the decoder drops video frames and starts decoding from the current audio stream time. The video decoding frame drop point is configurable, but if it exceeds 5000ms the audio stream output starts to break (that's the standard effect for the GOM Player built in codec).

So, the freezing effect I was referring to in earlier posts is a situation, when video delay exceeds the default 1500ms and video decoder drops frames. Since the video delay is constantly rising with 100% CPU usage, it is obvious, the CPU can not keep up. Also, buffering in advance is useless, since the CPU is always occupied in 100%.

The FFDShow does have a few interesting features related to performance.
- buffering frames in advance
- skipping deblocking when video delay exceeds a certain point.
- configurable video frame drop point, preventing audio output interruptions

Currently I'm working with a 2.8/512/800 P4, but I will get a 3.0/512/800 CPU in a few days. According to my observations, the current CPU is about 15-30% too slow.

#29
technoid

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Because audio is part of the stream and also goes through the CPU process, what happens if you disable audio from the movie, will the video able to keep up a little better? Sorry, I only quickly scanned through this thread, don't know if you've already done that. I realize audio is important when watching, but this is for testing purposes.

On a side note (somewhat off topic), I know FFDShow was very helpful for me, I needed something to sharpen the video quality. VLC had a sharpening tool, but it loaded my CPU (Pentium III 1.0 GHz) down to the point that the movies (DVD) started to slideshow a little bit. It was noticeable, framerate was less smooth, may be watchable for some ppl, but not for me. However, I switched to GOMPlayer attached to FFDShow and used the sharpener in FFDS and it played on the CPU like it was nothing. Smooth as ever. I discussed it in the VLC forum, but nothing became of it, the developers said there's nothing in their sharpening code that was any different, which I think is incorrect, without further research. This is on Win 2k, not 98se or other.

Edited by technoid, 24 October 2011 - 05:50 PM.


#30
loblo

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On my system I can play H264/AVC up to 1280x720 at 60fps without any audio or video drop out and this uses about 97-98% of my 2.8Ghz Opteron 154 CPU time. Higher resolution at lower framerate are also possible obviously but there is no way I can decently play full H264/AVC HD video at 1920x1072 at 24/25 fps.

Using CoreAVC 2.0 without postpro btw.

Edited by loblo, 25 October 2011 - 01:56 AM.


#31
animalid

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For many years i've used mplayer builds from MPlayer on Windows (win32) on my Windows 98 SE.
I have Celeron 1,4 (tualatin) and Powercolor Radeon 9100L and usualy no problem playing 720p on my pc.
(sometimes it lags when there is a lots of action - but only for a bit).
Use it with -lavdopts skipframe=nonref:skiploopfilter=all:fast=1 in command line (quality is a bit worse).

#32
CharlesF

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PotPlayer is a smart Mediaplayer based on KMPlayer

You're not running Potplayer on Windows98/ME or are you?

Reason I am asking is that you operating system seems to be 2003 and that the only gripe I have with PotPlayer on Windows ME is that I can't access any configuration page in it aside from the initial one and that your screenshot shows a page I can't access.


With Win98SE and KernelEx installed, PotPlayer is launching but images are ugly.
I have try several video settings, but still the same problem.

I stay with KMPlayer (proposed by duffy98 here ).
Very-very light, and images are splendid! :)

#33
Sfor

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I did get a 3Ghz/512kb/800Mhz P4 CPU. It works a bit better than 2.8Ghz, but a quick calculation suggests 3.6GHz CPU is necesary for smooth playback of 1920x1080 video.

I do have yet another problem. How to get a full playback of Advanced Substation Alpha subtitles with ability to time shift subtitles during playback?

The GOM Player does not have the full AdvSubstation support, yet it does allow to time shift subtiles. On the other hand FFDShow does fully support AdvSubstation subtitles, but the built in keyboard command functions do not work for me. I do not know if the FFDShow keyboard shorcuts were ment to be available during playback, in the first place.

Are there other video players able to do the time shift with the full support for Advanced Substation Alpha subtitles?

#34
loblo

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Sfor, not sure it does what you want but since it is specialized in playing vids with subtitles you may want to have a look at SubEdit Player.

#35
loblo

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With Win98SE and KernelEx installed, PotPlayer is launching but images are ugly.
I have try several video settings, but still the same problem.

I stay with KMPlayer (proposed by duffy98 here ).
Very-very light, and images are splendid! :)

I can't say I see any quality difference in vids played by KMPlayer or PotPlayer.

I find it funny that you just discovered KMPPlayer as it is one of the most well known media player that is mentioned everywhere since a few years now. Have you been living under a rock? :lol:

My default player for most video filetypes, aside from wmv it doesn't handle well, is Ges Player btw. It's only in Japanese though and the only english version must be the one I partially translated for myself so I can use it. It's got plenty of cool features no other player seem to have.

I have most of the other good/interesting ones installed and available through the explorer context menu anyway:

Posted Image

#36
CharlesF

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I find it funny that you just discovered KMPPlayer as it is one of the most well known media player that is mentioned everywhere since a few years now. Have you been living under a rock? :lol:

I was using VLC for years (under my rock :ph34r: ) and I was told that it is the only all-in-one player Win98 compatible ...

I didn't wanted to install to much codecs because they may mess up stability.

For PotPlayer, I have a display bug with the 'out of the box' settings.
But in any event, his memory footprint is higher than KMP.

#37
Sfor

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Well a few things happened.

I did get a 3.2GHz/1Mb/800Mhz CPU. It works better, but it still freezes with some full HD videos. I had to switch to a different motherboard with Intel 915 chipset and Socket 775, in the process.

I figured out how to time shift subtitles from the FFDShow directly. The trick was too simple, so I did not got it the first time. The keyboard shortuct are ment to be used with both Ctrl and Alt keys pressed.

The 10bit x264 codec is more and more common. The output of such a video stream can not be treated as high quality, any more. The last stable FFDShow tryouts Beta7 does not solve the problem.

Have anyone solved the problem of the 10bit codec on Windows 98? The newest FFDShow alpha releases are using MSVC2010 compiler. Will it work with the KernelEX? Have anyone been able to get it working?

Edited by Sfor, 11 February 2012 - 02:24 PM.


#38
loblo

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Have anyone solved the problem of the 10bit codec on Windows 98? The newest FFDShow alpha releases are using MSVC2010 compiler. Will it work with the KernelEX? Have anyone been able to get it working?

As I have mentioned elsewhere some time ago, the MSVC2010 clsid builds from sourceforge can be made to work by replacing the kernel32 imported function HeapQueryInformation by SetLastError in ffdshow.ax. I am currently using the thus treated rev4257_20120115_clsid build without apparent problems. I haven't got a 10bit x264 file to test though but I don't see a reason why it shouldn't work if decoding of such streams has been implemented in those builds.

Edited by loblo, 11 February 2012 - 04:08 PM.


#39
monroe

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I decided to update my earlier statements about KMPlayer that CharlesF refers to in Post 32, that I made in another thread. I have used KMPlayer for several years but a few hours ago I decided to download the latest version of GOM Player, which is dated 10 Jan 2012. I admit I am very impressed with everything so far. I haven't installed a recent version of GOM Player for a long time. I checked both players with Memload and they are very close in memory usage ... KMPlayer was 25. M and GOM Player was 28. M. I always did like the fact that GOM Player could play a broken .avi file ... Play Broken AVI Files (Patented). I have removed KMPlayer for now, to only work with GOM Player for a month or two, but I may just keep it installed as my media player for the future. With KMPlayer, I started having the same problem that CharlesF was having ... KMPlayer always wanting to connect to the internet, not a major deal since ZoneAlarm stops it anyway. So far I have no issues with GOM Player and I made no changes to KernelEx when I installed GOM Player. As I said ... just an update on my changing media players.

...

#40
e-t-c

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thx! for the GOM Player Clue eg. Info ! =)) http://en.wikipedia....wiki/GOM_Player

Edited by e-t-c, 12 February 2012 - 02:20 AM.

... to exercise patience - and beside learning to l(i)(o)(ea)ving (at the right time) ^L^...

#41
Sfor

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Have anyone solved the problem of the 10bit codec on Windows 98? The newest FFDShow alpha releases are using MSVC2010 compiler. Will it work with the KernelEX? Have anyone been able to get it working?

As I have mentioned elsewhere some time ago, the MSVC2010 clsid builds from sourceforge can be made to work by replacing the kernel32 imported function HeapQueryInformation by SetLastError in ffdshow.ax. I am currently using the thus treated rev4257_20120115_clsid build without apparent problems. I haven't got a 10bit x264 file to test though but I don't see a reason why it shouldn't work if decoding of such streams has been implemented in those builds.


I found the thread you mentioned: http://www.msfn.org/...ement-kernelex/

I tried to install ffdshow_rev4305_20120205_clsid.exe, but it does not seem to be working. Where should I put the patched MSVC2010 libraries?

The decoder config dialogs are not working. The GOM PLayer does not find the FFDShow filters. The links to the decoder config are incorrect: C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\RUNDLL32.EXE"C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\ff_vfw.dll",configureVFW.

I changed the link to: C:\WINDOWS\RUNDLL32.EXE "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\ff_vfw.dll" ,configureVFW , but it did not help much.

----------------------------

I did the same with ffdshow_rev4257_20120115_clsid.exe. But, no effect, so far.

Edited by Sfor, 12 February 2012 - 05:17 AM.


#42
loblo

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You don't need the files I posted for getting it to work sfor. They will allow other stuff to run but no that. To get msvc2010 builds of ffdshow running you need

replacing the kernel32 imported function HeapQueryInformation by SetLastError in ffdshow.ax.

(with an hex editor or jumper's import patcher.)

Edited by loblo, 12 February 2012 - 07:14 AM.


#43
Sfor

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According to my research the FFDShow tryouts developers do not take active part in the Hi10P decoding development. Their intention was to include the Hi10P code, after it proves to be stable enough. So, it looks like the push to port the newest alpha FFDShow tryouts to Windows 98 is not a good course of action.

The core of the Hi10P development seems to be centered around CCCP codec pack. However, the best results are reported from LAV Filters project.

Edited by Sfor, 14 February 2012 - 03:09 AM.


#44
loblo

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The 10bit video mkv samples that are on this page play just fine with the ffdshow build I am am using and mentioned above so it seems it's implemented now. ;)

You can use the LAV filter if you prefer of course, you just have more function replacements to do to be able to use it, tested OK in Monogram GraphStudio with current LAV Filter (0.46).

B)

Edited by loblo, 14 February 2012 - 05:23 AM.


#45
Giant2011

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One great player Potplayer

#46
taunus17m

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One great player Potplayer

I have installed : PotPlayer 1.5.40373.exe
Released: 08 Oct 2013
found at filehorse.com > old versions

kernelex 4.5.2 is on my machine, but I installed Potplayer without Kernelex-options

After installation Potplayer don't start .
Go to  C:\Programms\Daum\PotPlayer\PotPlayerMini.exe
Choose Kernelex-mode: windows xp sp2

But after that I cannot open any video's  ::   Warning: missing video decoder...

Now choose:
Preferences > video > choose "video renderer" > apply > o.k

I choose skin: original_en.dsf
easily can choose :video und audio equalizer

tested mp4, avi , flv , video(.ifo/vob) with sucess



#47
Skoynay

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Media Player Classic Home Cinema 1.3.2099.0 is the last version which i could run in an old computer with 98se sp3 + KernelEX. It's a retro-HTPC ;) http://www.xvidvideo...4-svn-2099.html Real alternative + ffdshow, alas coreavc not working on this machine, the ax filter gives an exception and mpc quits. :( But ffdshow is free, and more tweakable. Overlay mode is the snappiest, but with some video cards a bit tricky, it loads the video but nothing plays, then stop and play and it starts. If Mpc-hc throws an 'exception in xxx.dll' error, switching Windows to 256 colors mode sometimes helps, by freeing some video memory - the overlay mode color depth is not affected by Win desktop color depth. Also no subtitles in overlay mode, except DVD video.



#48
ROTS

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Does not matter what player you use, as long as it is properly programmed vs the bitrate, and how well the material is encoded vs the codecs used. If you could put 98 on a 5.6Ghz machine it should be running like no tomorrow. My win98 machine seems to beat out my OSX machine ( which demands HD conent ), but the faster Vista machine has no problems with playback.

I think I am double posting but, the HD content ( super high resolution ) vs the display vs the speed of the computer. Sound is another problem all together. They have some new sound technology out their and if your a soundfreak you want to check that out as well.

I do not like players saving shortcuts to the recent folder.

Edited by ROTS, 07 December 2013 - 12:31 PM.





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