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24 replies to this topic

#1
bookie32

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Hi Folks :yes:

I am writing this, not with the intention to personally attack any member, but more as a reminder as to why we have forums such as MSFN....

There are many areas of computers that seem to give me and many other members grief.....we just don't grasp what a member is saying or they have assumed that they don't need to explain that in such detail....there are many reasons for this....

Many have been here years and are devoted to helping members with their problems, but there are many who have forgotten what it was like for them in the beginning.....and assume that a member should know "this or that"....that is a mistake we all make at times.....

My customers have such a varied level of knowledge that I always have to start from zero and work up...and try to do this without offending anyone......not easy!!

There is no way we can be good at everything to do with computers....there is just too much...and that is why we rely on the exchange of ideas and information on forums such as MSFN....

My request is that members try not to forget where they started and what might be insignificant information to them is a whole lot to others.......

We all have different ways of learning and I am part of the group that needs it on served up on a plate dissectt I can disect it working backwards to try and understand things....this has always worked for me, but doesn't have to be the same for others....

I am always grateful for the help I can get and always hope that the threads one starts will shed some light on a particular subject for someone else..........

Before anyone takes offfense...please take a deep breath and see this in the spirit it was written..... :angel

I don't care if members think he is a poor old sad ******. I don't have any problem with that.....just wanted to remind everyone why we have forums....... :thumbup

Edited by bookie32, 04 October 2011 - 03:09 AM.



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#2
allen2

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I will be grumpy there: people here are doing what they want and only that (and it's a great thing) and you shouldn't even think of being unsatisfied because everyone here is doing this for free (and most of the time, it is even the reverse => people contributing posting often also contribute paying or using some more free time to help).
Even if an advice isn't complete or enough explained, you could use google or any search engine to find a lot more information (that's what i do most of the time as i know only a few things and using google is one thing that i know but i still don't master it) after being gave a hint a more knowledgeable member.
What i saw there and dislike is that knowledgeable members, who could contribute a lot in helping less knowledgeable one's, only come here to get detailed answer.
I know it won't be even close to a perfect world where everyone would get and receive help from everyone but if no one helps then no one will get help.
Also it would be great if people wanting to ask something would have done at least a search (google or msfn) and read the f***ing manual (i know reading something unproven like a manual isn't geek enough, it is a lot more geek to read an answer on a thread that will be a lot more knowledgeable).
Most of the above comments aren't meant for the OP.

#3
jaclaz

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I will be grumpy there:

I'll be grumpier. :w00t: ;)

A number of people miss the right approach when asking a question.

The wrong approaches are always the same ones and are typically covered by these three FGA's:
http://homepages.tes...no-answers.html
http://homepage.ntlw...ard-litany.html
http://homepage.ntlw...red-banana.html

Besides the first one that is IMHO just for fun :lol: , #2 and #3 are important, when people:
  • provide an exact description of the "background" of the problem and of the environment around
  • show willingness to follow advice (as opposed to wanting to have the exact advice they think it is needed - which often is simply making it more complex than needed)
it is much easier to help them.

To the above you add the "sloth effect" :ph34r:, sometimes a new peep comes on the board and seems like expecting that someone on the Forum can by sheer magic, and in a handful of posts, provide and transfer without any effort all the knowledge it has taken years to build up (and hundreds of pages read, and countless experiments and what not), and they additionally get upset when the helping member tells them to read the (F...) manual or some web pages.

Personally I see it not as a good thing when an answer to a problem (unless it is a simple, common one) does not - besides contributing to solve the reported problem/issue - also invite the asking member to get curious, to learn more and to understand fully the issue and find himself which solution is more suitable.

The good ol' issue about teaching someone to fish...., more here:
http://www.msfn.org/...or-xp-from-usb/

jaclaz

#4
bookie32

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Hi guys!

I am used to putting myself in the firing line...and will probably continue to do so.... :w00t:

I didn't write this thread for anything I am unsatisfied with....wouldn't dare......I have noticed short replies to threads where a little more tact could have been used.....

BUT like I said:

My customers have such a varied level of knowledge that I always have to start from zero and work up...and try to do this without offending anyone......not easy!!


My idea was to start a thread where folk can vent their frustrations without any supposedly personal attacks on a member........ :whistle:

I am always gratful for the help I get here and I don't spend time here helping others.... :blushing:

I do like to finish off a thread with a detailed account of what I have done to solve my particular problem....(time permitting, where necessary) in the hope that my (and members help) can be useful to someone else in the future.....

Very experienced members can and do lose sight of what they went through in the beginning and I wanted this as a reminder......

Also, rightly pointed out...anyone coming here for a quick fix ought to know better....some of my projects go on months...building up a bit of knowledge here and there......

bookie32 B)

#5
XPerties

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bookie32 - As a OG of MSFN I agree with your outlook and have seen many ups and down's. It is difficult sometimes especially when you see the same thing ask over and over.

To others: There are many people who have never used a forum and have a hard time navigating them so finding FAQ's are sometimes difficult. I just try to "treat others as I would want to be treated".



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#6
bookie32

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Hi XPerties :hello:

Nice sentiment.....

It will be nice if this thread just does that ....remind folks of their humble roots before being MSFN gurus.... :yes:


Thanks for your comments!

bookie32

#7
5eraph

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bookie32 - As a OG of MSFN I agree with your outlook and have seen many ups and down's. It is difficult sometimes especially when you see the same thing ask over and over.

To others: There are many people who have never used a forum and have a hard time navigating them so finding FAQ's are sometimes difficult. I just try to "treat others as I would want to be treated".

I agree with you, XPerties, but in the spirit of this thread I must ask: What is an OG of MSFN? I'm not familiar with the acronym other than "Original Gangster," which does not seem to apply. ;)

Edited by 5eraph, 04 October 2011 - 12:33 PM.


#8
XPerties

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Yeah man, OG = Original Gangster, Many know me, some fear me and those who don't have heard the horrid stories of me.

Just kidding, I'm just one of the original first time members = Mod = Admin many years ago.



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#9
5eraph

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Fair enough, member 12. The lower the number, the higher the esteem. :)

#10
bookie32

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Hi again!
Now there is something that can make a grumpy person happy.....me being the one that is grumpy....OG (Original Gangster) ....has a nice ring to it..... :lol:


bookie32

#11
XPerties

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Fair enough, member 12. The lower the number, the higher the esteem. :)



rofl.....Now you sound like my wife.



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#12
Andromeda43

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I have a gripe, but let me post it just as an observation. Eh?

Before a person is ever allowed to post on any forum (even mine) they should have to completely fill out their Control Panel, including their location.

It's pretty non-productive when a person comes on with something like, "my computer won't start. what's wrong".
Then we, who would like to help them, have to play "Twenty Questions" with them.

:thumbup
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#13
Snoop

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Yeah man, OG = Original Gangster, Many know me, some fear me and those who don't have heard the horrid stories of me.

Just kidding, I'm just one of the original first time members = Mod = Admin many years ago.

just posting to see what number i am !

nooo im #30 ! i expected to be lower seeing as i was good friends with fthrjack and aaron even back when msfn was just an irc channel for discussing the leaked windows xp builds ^_^

i believe you used to play bf2 alot with fthrjack? were you the guy whos a** i used to destroy in the jets :D

wow im not even a patron i was a mod at one time! or supermod whatever it was :( i remember the secret section !

Edited by Snoop, 10 October 2011 - 06:01 PM.

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#14
PROBLEMCHYLD

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It is difficult sometimes especially when you see the same thing ask over and over.

That's because a lot of the times thing never get answered.
I can find some topics that asked the same questions and they all have no replies or no solution.
And the first thing people say on here is search. When you search and there is no solution then what?
I will say it now and forever more, if Google has all of the answers then there is no purpose for MSFN.
Another thing is people are always complaining about bringing an old topic back to life,
but then complain about you starting a new topic about what the old topic was about.
This forum is still great, but not what it use to be.

I still love you guys though.

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#15
dencorso

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Among those questions that never get answered, some are:

1) Truly unanswerable questions (= those that have no answer),
and
2) Still unanswered answerable questions (= those that have an answer, but no one knows it yet).

Sometimes it's really difficult to decide which of the above types some given unanswerable question belongs to.

#16
vipejc

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Bookie is exactly right. My level of computer knowledge challenges engineers. I do things that 99.9% of users wouldn't dare. I open my power supplies, slim down Windows to barebones (every junk file, not just the easy ones), manually clean the registry.... And all without even an error message or broken component. I only come here in hopes that maybe one member has undertaken an insanely difficult project I'm working on, to get answers or confirm my theories are correct. But I ALWAYS ANSWER A QUESTION, NO MATTER HOW EASY, AFTER I RECEIVE AN ANSWER TO MY QUESTION. It's only fair. However, I try to answer the tough ones, and when I do play tech support, my answers are always professional and step-by-step, but I never receive the same treatment and am often left confused. Google only has answers to common questions. I'm the guy that innovates the question that very few people would even think of asking. Tech support always has to escalate my cases to the engineers, and even sometimes they don't know the answers.

The problem is the masses are lazy and don't want to learn. They want everything done for them. They think the computer will fix itself when there's a problem, and there will be problems. They think they can buy an OEM computer and just have fun. They think they're gonna share the same experience that a user who has sacrificed 10-20 years of their life to learn software and hardware does, not because they wanted to, but because they had to, to protect the investment. WRONG! A computer is a full-time job. And if you want to be lazy and just play, then don't buy one. Live a mostly non-digital life. A person isn't stupid for asking questions. Those are called smart people. Then you have those people who play smart by never asking questions to try and look like a know-it-all. Nobody knows it all and we all need help. We are human beings, not machines with god knowledge. A computer is a very stressful and time consuming thing. You need to ask yourself one question: is a computer right for me?

Edited by vipejc, 10 October 2011 - 08:09 PM.

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#17
XPerties

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i believe you used to play bf2 alot with fthrjack? were you the guy whos a** i used to destroy in the jets :D



wow dude I think I am the guy back then in bf2. Do you still talk to fthrjack? I've tried to get in touch with him years ago but never could.



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#18
Snoop

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i believe you used to play bf2 alot with fthrjack? were you the guy whos a** i used to destroy in the jets :D



wow dude I think I am the guy back then in bf2. Do you still talk to fthrjack? I've tried to get in touch with him years ago but never could.

no lost touch years ago google his name and you can probably find him somewhere, he was on facebook at one time but i think he deleted his account

edit i found his twitter acount ill pm you he doesnt seem active on it though :P

did sedative disapear of the internet aswell? the guy who had the "ileet" website

Edited by Snoop, 11 October 2011 - 07:09 AM.

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#19
PROBLEMCHYLD

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Among those questions that never get answered, some are:

1) Truly unanswerable questions (= those that have no answer),
and
2) Still unanswered answerable questions (= those that have an answer, but no one knows it yet).

Sometimes it's really difficult to decide which of the above types some given unanswerable question belongs to.

This is personal opinion, you have made a valid point, but what about people who does things out of spite
because you haven't upgraded to the same operating system their using. I see it a lot when asking a question
sometimes the 1st thing you read is why are you still using Win98/ME/2000 etc..... You should upgrade...... Blah Blah..... The OS is outdated, Blah Blah..........
People should be helped regardless of what OS they use.

Believe God is the Alpha and Omega.
Believe Jesus Christ died for our sins.
Repent for your sins now or there will be
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#20
Tripredacus

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This is personal opinion, you have made a valid point, but what about people who does things out of spite
because you haven't upgraded to the same operating system their using. I see it a lot when asking a question
sometimes the 1st thing you read is why are you still using Win98/ME/2000 etc..... You should upgrade...... Blah Blah..... The OS is outdated, Blah Blah..........
People should be helped regardless of what OS they use.


Its worse on non-technical forums. I have given up trying to help people there. The commonly accepted answers are
- you have a virus
- reinstall windows
- some other nonsense
- none of my answers

:angry:
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#21
bookie32

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Hi Tripredacus :hello:

OK! Bit late in responding to this thread...pressure of work and all that.

I wanted to say that I am a grumpy old git at times, but do appreciate all the help I get on the forum .....
I am always recommending the forum to my friends that are serious computer freeks......LOL

If you think I am ungrateful at any time - then feel free and kick me up the backside :w00t:

bookie32

#22
jaclaz

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I am always recommending the forum to my friends that are serious computer freeks......LOL

Oh, oh :ph34r:
Logical impossibility detected ! :w00t:

*Any* "serious computer freak" will ALREADY know about MSFN.... :whistle:

You are either harassing real "serious computer freaks" with redundant info or recommending MSFN to "frivolous computer freaks" :rolleyes:

:lol:

jaclaz

#23
Tripredacus

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*Any* "serious computer freak" will ALREADY know about MSFN.... :whistle:


Its surprising just how large this internet is. I've found many that either don't know or seem to be frightened by a tech forum. I say I can't help you (anymore), you should go to *insert forum name here* for help on that subject... but they never show up. :rolleyes:
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#24
bookie32

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:thumbup

#25
XPerties

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Who's messing with my inbox bring up old threads....lol



Boooo Guess who.



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