[vipejc]

My HP A7V8X-LA motherboard has a Socket A for an AMD Athlon XP 3000+ CPU. The HP-supplied CPU runs at a low-voltage of 1.5 V. Could I safely replace the low-voltage CPU with the stock version of said CPU that runs at 1.65 V, or would this damage the CPU or motherboard? AMD, ASUS and HP did not know the answer. :roll:

[MagicAndre1981]

the fastest AMD Athlon XP is 3400+ and so you want see any real improvement compared to the 3000+. Buy a new motherboard+cpu+ram (Intel i3 2100, mainboard with H61/H67 chipset + 4GB DDR3 RAM maybe a better PSU) and use the older parts of the old PC.

[CoffeeFiend]

Exactly. There's no real point in upgrading that for such a minuscule gain (so little that I probably wouldn't bother, even if the "new" CPU was free). At that point, even a second hand Athlon64 X2 or Core 2 Duo would be MUCH faster and still dirt cheap.

[dencorso]

vipejc, on 13 October 2011 - 04:26 PM, said:

Could I safely replace the low-voltage CPU with the stock version of said CPU that runs at 1.65 V, or would this damage the CPU or motherboard?

Of course you can replace the 1.50V Athlon with one rated for 1.65V with no risk of damage. But unless you can feed the replacement CPU with 1.65V or even 1.70V, it'll perform below specs (because you'd be starving it), so I don't think it's worth it. If your machine's BIOS config offers the option to change the Vcore, that's easy. If not, you'll need a third party (or a modded) BIOS or, in the worst case, to get a soldering iron and mod the motherboard itself (which IMO is definitely too much trouble).

[vipejc]

dencorso, on 13 October 2011 - 05:12 PM, said:

vipejc, on 13 October 2011 - 04:26 PM, said:

Could I safely replace the low-voltage CPU with the stock version of said CPU that runs at 1.65 V, or would this damage the CPU or motherboard?

Of course you can replace the 1.50V Athlon with one rated for 1.65V with no risk of damage. But unless you can feed the replacement CPU with 1.65V or even 1.70V, it'll perform below specs (because you'd be starving it), so I don't think it's worth it. If your machine's BIOS config offers the option to change the Vcore, that's easy. If not, you'll need a third party (or a modded) BIOS or, in the worst case, to get a soldering iron and mod the motherboard itself (which IMO is definitely too much trouble).

What provides the CPU voltage? The socket, motherboard circuitry, BIOS, power supply, or something else?
Both the 1.5 V and 1.65 V CPU are identical in specs. The only difference between them is voltage. So, if I install the 1.65 V CPU into the 1.56 V-set socket, would the CPU be stable and not suffer a performance penalty?

The HP BIOS either locks or hides the option to set the V Core.
Soldering is too complex and expensive. I agree.

[dencorso]

The power supply provides 12 V, 5 V and 3.3 V lines only. The mobo circuitry creates the 1.65 V or 1.50 V or whatever required from either the 3.3 V or 5 V lines provided to it. Some boards offer variable voltages selectable from the BIOS, others provide jumpers to do it, others have just a fixed Vcore.
AFAIK there is no separate production line for lower voltage CPUs, but instead each produced CPU is tested for performance below the standard voltage and those which pass get the lowe voltage spec and get sold at a premium price. So, if you install the 1.65 V CPU into the 1.50 V-set socket, it's not certain whether the CPU would the CPU be stable or not, and even if stable it ought to suffer a performance penalty. However, it depends on luck, too, so only actual testing with one or many actual 1.65 V CPUs can yield a meaningful answer to that question. You might find out one or more CPUs that will perform satisfactorily, since 1.50 V is just 9% below spec.
In any case, if you have an AXMJ2800FHQ4C Athlon XP-M sitting in your machine's socket, you might as well just overclock it, your mobo and BIOS permitting, because it has an unlocked multiplier (all XP-Ms do).
I should have already learnt to reread the original posts before jumping to conclusions!
Of course, since you said it's a 3000+, you must have an AXDL3000DLV4D Athlon XP, which has a locked multiplier, so what I said in the above crossed paragraph does not apply. Sorry!
Also, BTW, that actually *is* the fastest Athlon XP ever released, for 1.5 V, for that matter.

[vipejc]

dencorso, on 13 October 2011 - 08:09 PM, said:

The power supply provides 12 V, 5 V and 3.3 V lines only. The mobo circuitry creates the 1.65 V or 1.50 V or whatever required from either the 3.3 V or 5 V lines provided to it. Some boards offer variable voltages selectable from the BIOS, others provide jumpers to do it, others have just a fixed Vcore.
AFAIK there is no separate production line for lower voltage CPUs, but instead each produced CPU is tested for performance below the standard voltage and those which pass get the lowe voltage spec and get sold at a premium price. So, if you install the 1.65 V CPU into the 1.50 V-set socket, it's not certain whether the CPU would the CPU be stable or not, and even if stable it ought to suffer a performance penalty. However, it depends on luck, too, so only actual testing with one or many actual 1.65 V CPUs can yield a meaningful answer to that question. You might find out one or more CPUs that will perform satisfactorily, since 1.50 V is just 9% below spec.
In any case, if you have an AXMJ2800FHQ4C Athlon XP-M sitting in your machine's socket, you might as well just overclock it, your mobo and BIOS permitting, because it has an unlocked multiplier (all XP-Ms do).
I should have already learnt to reread the original posts before jumping to conclusions!
Of course, since you said it's a 3000+, you must have an AXDL3000DLV4D Athlon XP, which has a locked multiplier, so what I said in the above crossed paragraph does not apply. Sorry!
Also, BTW, that actually *is* the fastest Athlon XP ever released, for 1.5 V, for that matter.

Den, thanks for trying so hard. I think I got my answer. The 1.5 V AMD Athlon XP 3000+ is an OEM processor. This motherboard does support up to a 3200+ according to the manual. Since all Athlon XP 3200s use a 1.65 V, this motherboard must natively support a CPU V Core up to 1.65 V, because there's no V Core setting in BIOS. What do you think?

[puntoMX]

The Non-HP version does seems to have the same voltage regulator for the CPU, however, the motherboard you use might not have all the CPU AGESA code (so, it could be missing some settings for a CPU to be used) as it is a chopped version of the ASUS BIOS.

Now, what would you like to do with that system? To gain speed you might be better off putting in more RAM and/or a late model SATA HDD.

What André and CoffeeFiend said has some truth in it BUT you will need to replace the whole PC and that was not your question indeed: "should I trash my old PC and by a complete new one?"...

[dencorso]

Well, it might. From what I can see, the main difference between the HP board (A7V8X-LA) and the mainstream A7V8X-MX is that the MX uses a 8235 southbridge, while the LA uses a later 8237 southbridge, which is actually better (supports DDR 400 and SATA). On the other hand, that's SATA I (= SATA 150) only, SATA II HDDs will work only if jumpered down. Today's SATA III are a no-no, since they can only be jumpered down to SATA II speeds, if at all. And as for the FSB, while the 8237 can work at 400, that particular mobo cannot (here is the manual). That means that it really can use an Athlon XP 3200+, but you'd have to hunt for an AXDA3200DKV4D, which is very rare and works at 333 MHz, not the common garden variety, AXDA3200DKV4E, findable everywhere (well... sort of...).

Attached File(s)

•  LA vs MX.JPG (72.68K)
  Number of downloads: 8

[vipejc]

puntoMX, on 13 October 2011 - 10:54 PM, said:

The Non-HP version does seems to have the same voltage regulator for the CPU, however, the motherboard you use might not have all the CPU AGESA code (so, it could be missing some settings for a CPU to be used) as it is a chopped version of the ASUS BIOS.

I doubt the motherboard is missing any code that would not allow it to run the 1.65 V CPU, because the motherboard manual states this OEM motherboard manufactured by ASUS does support up to a 3200+. All 3200+s run at 1.65 V. The simplified Award Phoenix BIOS does not have a CPU V Core setting, so it's either locked and auto detected or hidden, and I doubt it's hidden; otherwise, the manual would not state the motherboard natively supports the 1.65 V 3200+.

Now, what would you like to do with that system? To gain speed you might be better off putting in more RAM and/or a late model SATA HDD.

I just want to know for future reference, in case I ever need to replace my CPU.

What André and CoffeeFiend said has some truth in it BUT you will need to replace the whole PC and that was not your question indeed: "should I trash my old PC and by a complete new one?"...

LOL They're funny.

[vipejc]

dencorso, on 13 October 2011 - 11:59 PM, said:

Well, it might. From what I can see, the main difference between the HP board (A7V8X-LA) and the mainstream A7V8X-MX is that the MX uses a 8235 southbridge, while the LA uses a later 8237 southbridge, which is actually better (supports DDR 400 and SATA). On the other hand, that's SATA I (= SATA 150) only, SATA II HDDs will work only if jumpered down. Today's SATA III are a no-no, since they can only be jumpered down to SATA II speeds, if at all. And as for the FSB, while the 8237 can work at 400, that particular mobo cannot (here is the manual). That means that it really can use an Athlon XP 3200+, but you'd have to hunt for an AXDA3200DKV4D, which is very rare and works at 333 MHz, not the common garden variety, AXDA3200DKV4E, findable everywhere (well... sort of...).

Den, you're reading the wrong manual. The Kamet is the older HP Pavilion variant of this motherboard. I run the Kelut. The FSB is 266-400 MHz. So that would mean this motherboard can run the AXDA3200DKV4E or 4D, 1.65 V CPU with no tweaking, right?

This post has been edited by vipejc: 14 October 2011 - 01:00 AM

[dencorso]

Sure!
The mobo should detect which CPU it is and adjust accordingly.
Or you might also run a SDA3300DKV4E (Sempron 3300+), which is the exact same thing as the AXDA3200DKV4E (Athlon XP 3200+), but rebranded for reasons only AMD knows (but doesn't tell). Both are easy to find, and either will do (since they are one and the same), although maybe the BIOS won't recognize the Sempron 3300+ (depends on its release date and that of the BIOS, but I think it should be known to the BIOS, because they're from around the same time frame). And, of course, you can also run an AXDA3200DKV4D, too, if you ever manage to find one.

[CoffeeFiend]

puntoMX, on 13 October 2011 - 10:54 PM, said:

should I trash my old PC and by a complete new one?"...

Again, you can easily find a second hand dual core CPU + motherboard + enough RAM for under $100. That will give a HUGE boost in performance (like 300% gain). Whereas finding a second hand Athlon XP 3200+ (still a ghetto CPU without SSE2 -- about the same speed as a P4 2.2GHz in tasks like encoding XviD for example) will cost half of that and offer a ~10% speed boost (not enough to be noticeable, and zero help in running more demanding apps or games i.e. a pointless waste of money) if it actually works and that's not exactly guaranteed either. At some point an upgrade really is the best option, and here getting anything reasonably faster and more modern isn't a huge expense. Heck, even "garbage diving" for an old P4 (free) would be a much better option. At least you'd get SSE2 out of it, you'd likely also get more RAM slots on the motherboard.

vipejc, on 14 October 2011 - 12:38 AM, said:

LOL They're funny.

People who spend half the money of a real upgrade on something that does essentially zero difference on an ancient system (especially when it isn't guaranteed to work) are even funnier Doubly so when you can find better PCs in the trash...

[John305]

Hi well I have to chime in here lol. Pc's are my business so I have a few for home use to keep the wife off my good pc's hehe. The pc I use the most and I do have a i7 with 2 gtx 280's in it with raptor drives which i use for media and games. But for eveyday use internet, mail, downloading is a amd athlon 64 3700 + socket 754 kv8-max3 board 3 gig ram 6600 gt video. It runs win 7 64 bit ultimate and gets a higher rateing in windows experiance index than most of the new cheap pc's. I built this pc many years ago it has 2 1 tb hard drives in it but the board can run 10 drives. Just because its old does not mean it cant do the job and most times for many people its all they need. And no its not slow on win 7, runs it very well no "please wait" when windows loads. And it always did blow away any p4 to bad amd stopped makeing performance cpus as they where always faster in the old days.

[submix8c]

If its just a backup CPU, go on... Otherwise I have to agree with ( e ) all of the above...

[puntoMX]

CoffeeFiend, on 14 October 2011 - 05:26 AM, said:

puntoMX, on 13 October 2011 - 10:54 PM, said:

should I trash my old PC and by a complete new one?"...

Again, you can easily find a second hand dual core CPU + motherboard + enough RAM for under $100. That will give a HUGE boost in performance (like 300% gain). Whereas finding a second hand Athlon XP 3200+ (still a ghetto CPU without SSE2 -- about the same speed as a P4 2.2GHz in tasks like encoding XviD for example) will cost half of that and offer a ~10% speed boost (not enough to be noticeable, and zero help in running more demanding apps or games i.e. a pointless waste of money) if it actually works and that's not exactly guaranteed either. At some point an upgrade really is the best option, and here getting anything reasonably faster and more modern isn't a huge expense. Heck, even "garbage diving" for an old P4 (free) would be a much better option. At least you'd get SSE2 out of it, you'd likely also get more RAM slots on the motherboard.

Yes, you can have a complete set with 2GB, dual core CPU and mobo for even under 60USD shipped in Canada or the USA (I had a Pentium D 920/930 with 1GB DDR2 RAM and an Intel 965 mobo for 30USD shipped, and was almost in new state!) and I agree with what you said (I would trash the Athlon XP too) but the OP just asked IF it was possible, and I understand from it that he wants to spend little to nothing and still could get a little more out of his current system. You know we agree on most stuff .

Garbage Diving is a nice sport!

[CoffeeFiend]

puntoMX, on 14 October 2011 - 02:40 PM, said:

Garbage Diving is a nice sport!

Then again, I have several of those old P4 3GHz setups (board/CPU/RAM) somewhere. I haven't thrown them out yet but nobody even wants of that kind of hardware here -- that's the kind of thing people are getting rid of in the first place. I even got a spare E2180 CPU this week which is likely never going to be used again (from a setup which had a dead motherboard). Now, that would still be perfectly usable for a good while (especially on a OC-friendly board)

[vipejc]

dencorso, on 14 October 2011 - 02:44 AM, said:

Sure!
The mobo should detect which CPU it is and adjust accordingly.
Or you might also run a SDA3300DKV4E (Sempron 3300+), which is the exact same thing as the AXDA3200DKV4E (Athlon XP 3200+), but rebranded for reasons only AMD knows (but doesn't tell). Both are easy to find, and either will do (since they are one and the same), although maybe the BIOS won't recognize the Sempron 3300+ (depends on its release date and that of the BIOS, but I think it should be known to the BIOS, because they're from around the same time frame). And, of course, you can also run an AXDA3200DKV4D, too, if you ever manage to find one.

Great teamwork, Den! We solved the case. The underlined is what I thought but wanted to confirm. I wouldn't chance the Sempron. It's not in the manual, so it's not a trusted-compatible CPU and could cause damage.

Guys, I appreciate the effort, but you're missing the point. This is my main system. This system meets all my current and, as far as I can see, future needs. I have absolutely no desire or need to upgrade my system now or, as far as I can see, ever. I know exactly what I'm doing and have put extreme thought into future-proofing my system. Older technologies, such as IDE and VGA, will always be suitable for most end users, including me. New is not always better, and even in the rare instance it is, the performance gain is so tiny, it can't justify the bloated costs.