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Connecting a Windows 98 and Windows 7 through a network

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57 replies to this topic

#1
KelvinTwister

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I want to connect a Windows 98SE to a Windows 7 Starter through a network. Both computers are connected to a router. In Windows 98SE desktop is connected via cable to the router and the other is a laptop connected to the router via Wireless. Windows 7 is recognizing itself and the router as shown in the image:

Attached File  Rede.png   161.91KB   31 downloads

Since Windows 98 is recognized only to himself, is not recognizing the router (access to the internet but what is normal, and you can connect to the router using the address 192.168.0.1).

Attached File  Redes.jpg   113.9KB   26 downloads

What should I do for Windows 98 recognize the router on the network?

PS: Sorry for bad English, because I am Brazilian


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#2
awergh

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What do you mean by recognising the router, you cannot access the webinterface?

I'can you ping the router from the commandline?

ping 192.168.0.1

would be useful to for you to run ipconfig as well

ipconfig /all









#3
jds

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Some months ago, I tried to do exactly the same thing, the only difference, the laptop ran Vista.

MS have clearly made an effort in Vista, and presumably 7, to be as incompatible as possible with everything else, including previous versions of MSW.

I can't remember exactly what I tried, but in the end, I ran an small FTP server application on the W98 machine and connected to this on the laptop. From memory, you can get Explorer on Vista to treat an FTP site as if it were a network drive.

It's a kludge, but it was all I could do without going insane.

HTH,
Joe.

#4
awergh

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I don't think they went to an effort at all to make it incompatible, I have no problem transferring files from 7 to 98SE but I use a network drive to transfer instead of accessing network shares through Network Neighbourhood / Network

The other direction from 98SE to 7 is a bit more annoying though I expect because you have to have the same username as normal for between 9x and NT but also have to change the security configuration on 7 to except LM hash because by default it requires NTLM hash. I think there is a way to enable NTLM hash on 9x but that might only apply to the active directory client I didn't read through the KB article thoroughly. This change was made for security reasons of LM being not exactly secure not in deliberately stopping Windows 3.1/9x users accessing Windows 7 shares.



#5
Tripredacus

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I have also had no problems transferring between Win98 FE and Win7 Pro through a router. I just had to create a user account on the Win7 to share the folder with. I didn't bother seeing if the PCs were visible to each other in the Network browser, just directly connect to the UNC path using IP address. IE: \\192.168.100.101

You should not have any problems doing basic networking with Windows 7 Starter, however it looks like yours is modified (Aero Glass) so this may not be true.

Here is a pic of my netbook copying files from a Win98 share:
Spoiler

Edited by Tripredacus, 27 October 2011 - 09:43 AM.
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#6
KelvinTwister

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Tripredacus how did you get? Windows 7 Starter is the version I just downloaded a program that allowed them to use the Aero effect.

Additional data:
- Both computer connected to the router receives an IP range of 192.168.0.1 ** (two asterisks is a number from 00 to 99). The final IP 192.168.0.128 is the Windows 98 and Windows 7 is 192.168.0.199

- The name of the User PC with Windows 98 PHILIPS-BLASTER, and the group is called WORKGROUP

- The name of the User PC with Windows 7 is ARIESCHA-PC, and the group is called WORKGROUP

- The devices are connected like the image below:

Attached File  Rede.jpg   27.54KB   21 downloads

#7
KelvinTwister

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I got through the windows 7 access shared folders from Windows 98 (first appeared to the printer), but when you open the shared folder did not show any files, was carrying only until Windows 7 Explorer.exe has stopped responding. So far unable to access Windows 7 from Windows 98.

NOTE: Windows 7 is configured with just one User who is the Administrator, it will interfere?

#8
Kelsenellenelvian

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Slightly OT

What aero enabler are you using?

I can't seem to find one that works right.

#9
rilef

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Following is the local network setup on my 98SE computer and router:

From the Windows 98 control panel, double-click the "Network" icon.

Under the "Configuration" tab, double-click "TCP/IP" for your network card. Select "IP Address" tab, click "Obtain an IP address automatically." Click the "Gateway" tab. If any "Installed Gateways" listed, select each one and click "Remove". Click the "DNS Configuration" tab, and then select "Disable DNS". Click OK to exit the TCP/IP Properties window. Then click OK again to exit the Network window. Click yes to restart your computer.

After your computer restarts, click "Start" then "Run". Type "WINIPCFG" and click "OK". (Note, "IPCONFIG" is for Windows 2000 and higher, not 98SE).It may take a minute or two for the "IP Configuration" window to appear. From the dropdown menu, select your network card. Click "Release" and then click "Renew". Then click OK to close the window. (you may want to write down the router address, before clicking OK, so that you can later access and configure your router from your browser).

Hopefully, your Windows 98 computer is now connected to your router.

Note, Microsoft has a "Microsoft Network Wizard" ("Netsetup.exe") for Windows 98SE, which wizard you may find helpful. The wizard is run from a floppy.

#10
KelvinTwister

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Kelsenellenelvian, this is the program> http://www.baixaki.c...r-and-basic.htm

Enable to access shared folders from Windows 98 through Windows 7 (working perfectly), but am not able to access the shared folders of Windows 7 through Windows 98. Nor am getting the printer (the printer is installed on Windows 98) and there is a driver for Windows 7 it.

- I was able to access Windows 98 through Windows 7, going on run and typing //192.168.0.128 (Problem Solved)

Attached File  Acesso.png   152.79KB   10 downloads

- But when I do the same run in Windows 98 by typing the IP of Windows 7 (which is 192.168.0.199), an error message appears. (Unresolved)

- I'm having trouble using the printer that is located in Windows 98 (Unresolved)

Thanks for the help of all, one of three problems have been resolved.

Edited by KelvinTwister, 26 October 2011 - 06:00 PM.


#11
Kelsenellenelvian

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Thank you

#12
KelvinTwister

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I think I am close to get both computers are recognizing:
- Windows 98

Attached File  Win98 e Win7.jpg   70.61KB   22 downloads

- Windows 7

Attached File  Win 7 e Win98.png   156.72KB   13 downloads

But when I try to access the shared folders of Windows 7 through Windows 98, a message appears: "This request is not supported by the network" and then the message "The server \\Ariescha-PC does not accept remote requests"
I'm usually able to access shared folders from Windows 98 through Windows 7. There is less!

#13
Tripredacus

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But when I try to access the shared folders of Windows 7 through Windows 98, a message appears: "This request is not supported by the network" and then the message "The server \\Ariescha-PC does not accept remote requests"
I'm usually able to access shared folders from Windows 98 through Windows 7. There is less!


You need to create a user account on the Win7 PC. You should put a password on it. Then share a folder on the Win7 and select that user account you made. When you connect to it from the Win98, you will be prompted for credentials.

On Windows98, Guest access is enabled, which is why you can just go there and see the shares. On Win7, guest access is disabled and you *should* create a user account to access the files with. It is possible to enable guest access on Win7, but I recommend against it.
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#14
KelvinTwister

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Thanks everyone for the answers and patience. But it is taking effect, now I'm able to print using the printer connected to Windows 98 through Windows 7. But only one thing missing is difficult to solve, we access the Windows 7 through Windows 98. Using Comodo Firewall in Windows 7, will have to open some doors? Or is it still Windows 7 is poorly configured to be accessed? Or the Windows 7 operating system does not allow the old 9x family access the shared folders?

#15
awergh

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Note, "IPCONFIG" is for Windows 2000 and higher, not 98SE


This statement is wrong.

Windows 98SE definately has ipconfig it was not introduced in Windows 2000.

ipconfig exists in Windows for Workgroup and MSclient 3.0 for DOS.

It is only missing in Windows 95 for some unknown reason that is the only time you need to use winipcfg otherwise ipconfig is preferable.



Thanks everyone for the answers and patience. But it is taking effect, now I'm able to print using the printer connected to Windows 98 through Windows 7. But only one thing missing is difficult to solve, we access the Windows 7 through Windows 98. Using Comodo Firewall in Windows 7, will have to open some doors? Or is it still Windows 7 is poorly configured to be accessed? Or the Windows 7 operating system does not allow the old 9x family access the shared folders?


I guess since you probably don't care about network security you can access Windows 7 from 9x by changing the security settings so that it accepts LM hash (I'm pretty sure you can't use NTLM although I have to look up the active directory client some time to see if this is actually true).

Assuming you already have user accounts that are the same on both computers.

There is at least one security settings that need to be changed I'm not totally sure if this is the only one because I'm feeling lazy to test it but you can do the following and it might work

Run secpol.msc

Local Policies

Security Options

Find Network security: LAN Manager authentication level,

change this setting to Send LM & NTLM responses






Edited by awergh, 28 October 2011 - 06:02 AM.


#16
KelvinTwister

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Thank you for everyone's help. But I am glad that I got:

- Access files from Windows 98 through Windows 7 :thumbup
- Use the printer that is connected in Windows 98. :thumbup

Only lacked access files from Windows 7 from Windows 98, but not something that is urgently needed.

:hello:

#17
Drugwash

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One tip I accidentally stumbled upon and that turned out to be the most important of them all: Win9x will not open a Win7 network computer directly; instead, one must know the exact names of the shares and access them directly.
For example, if the Win7 computer named TEST7 has a shared folder under the name of MyShare, then you'll have to type \\TEST7\MyShare in your file manager and it will open it.

I've wasted a lot of time searching around and trying all the tips I could find, until I found the above; as soon as I followed it, the shares became available.
As a mention, I'm only using Total Commander as file manager and as such, I locked a few Win7 shared tabs in one pane so they could be accessed when needed without having to type the share path again. ;)

I don't think it's been mentioned here but the Win9x machine(s) should have Active Directory Client (DSClient) installed.

#18
prowler

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I think I am close to get both computers are recognizing:
- Windows 98

Attached File  Win98 e Win7.jpg   70.61KB   22 downloads

- Windows 7

Attached File  Win 7 e Win98.png   156.72KB   13 downloads

But when I try to access the shared folders of Windows 7 through Windows 98, a message appears: "This request is not supported by the network" and then the message "The server \\Ariescha-PC does not accept remote requests"
I'm usually able to access shared folders from Windows 98 through Windows 7. There is less!


I can access win98 shared folders on my win7. But I still can't see win7 shared folder (an win 7 computer) on my win98.

#19
submix8c

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Let's straighten this out (using some "loose" definitions/terms) -

Seven (or XP or Vista or Server 2k3/2k8) -
User-A and User-B defined
Signed on as User-A

Win9x (any flavor) -
User-B Defined (AFTER installing "Client for Microsoft Networks")
Signed on as User-B

Win9x does NOT have "ACL" since this is an NTFS-type "Sharing" facility ONLY. Shares between Win9x PC's by DEFAULT allow accesses (note READ-ONLY or FULL plus "Set a Password" under SHARING for given folder). It is NOT based upon User/Group Sign-On. ANY OS/USER can access the Share - Win9x could CARE LESS!

HOWEVER, on NTFS-type Systems, the Share Access MUST define WHICH Users/Groups, WHAT access for that User/Group, AND the Given User MUST have a Password set (REQUIRED). Interestingly, you need not be "signed on" to the Requesting computer (WHEN IT IS AN NTFS-TYPE SYSTEM) with a User/Password combo that is defined on the Sharing PC, but MUST have one defined on the Sharing PC to gain access (and then providing said User/Password combo when attempting access). The "Everyone" Group means "Everyone Defined on Said PC". NTFS-types DO CARE!

SO, in the Win9x System, "Client for Microsoft Networks" MUST be installed (in Control Panel->Network) AND used as "Primary Network Logon" AND a User/Password combination used that MUST MATCH that defined on the NTFS-type system ( see initial statements about User-B ).

If you don't believe me, install Win9x on a Virtual PC and try it as stated. Trust me, it works no other way... (this has been hashed before many times)

Edited by submix8c, 18 December 2011 - 10:59 AM.

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#20
Drugwash

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It depends on permissions. I haven't created a "clone" user on the Win7 machine after the 9x one, however I set Read/Write permissions for "Everyone". It works here. But yeah, one needs to jump through hoops and then there's the trick I described above.

#21
submix8c

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...I set Read/Write permissions for "Everyone"...

Probably why it works (? WOW!) doing it the way you did it. As stated, "Everyone" means Everyone. Read-Only for Everyone is the "default", hence defining the User-B on the NTFS-type system. The "smart" method is to REMOVE "Everyone" and add "User-X" to prevent unauthorized accesses (that you will get on a "loose" 9x system).

Someday the tyrants will be unthroned... Jason "Jay" Chasteen; RIP, bro!

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#22
prowler

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Thank you guys! Now all work good! Win9x->win7->Win9x

#23
jds

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On Windows98, Guest access is enabled, which is why you can just go there and see the shares.

Yeah, everyone says that. Yet for me, the W98SE desktop's shares are not visible to the Vista laptop, let alone vice-versa!

I recently added a WiFi adapter to a W98SE laptop, just to confirm that there was nothing wrong with the Ethernet/WiFi router configuration (similarly, the W98SE desktop configuration). Well, the W98SE desktop and W98SE laptop were happily sharing directories and files straight away. In other words, with a W98SE laptop via WiFi, network connectivity to the W98SE desktop works just fine, yet with the Vista laptop in exactly the same situation, it doesn't.

I can ping between the W98SE desktop and Vista laptop, and set up FTP and HTTP servers on each machine and transfer files that way. Yet other suggestions here such as using the respective IP addresses or share names directly just don't work for me.

In the Vista laptop's registry, I have set LmCompatibilityLevel to 1 (was 3) and even NoLMHash to 0 (was 1), all to no avail. I have also installed the DS Client on the W98SE desktop, again with no result. BTW, it should go without saying, but networking between the W98SE laptop and the Vista laptop are similarly dysfunctional.

So I give up. If I can't see any W98SE shares on the Vista machine, there is no hope, except perhaps retrograding the Vista laptop to a less retarded version of Windoze.

Joe.

Edited by jds, 07 January 2012 - 08:41 AM.


#24
jds

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BTW, in case it's relevant, the version of Vista on this laptop is called "Home Premium".

Anyway, I've just tried again to find out why this thing won't network in either direction with the W98 PC and it may be this : http://en.wikipedia....ology_Discovery
There's a patch for XP which is KB922120, but nothing for W98. :(

Joe.

#25
submix8c

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FWIW, does this info help?

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