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Connecting a Windows 98 and Windows 7 through a network

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#26
jds

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FWIW, does this info help?

Nope. I don't have any problem of a missing Network Neighbourhood icon.

The stupid thing is that the Vista laptop shows the wireless router, which it can't share anything with/from (and which doesn't belong to the workgroup), but not the W98 machine. However, if I replace the Vista laptop with a W98 one, all the networking & sharing stuff works just fine, so the W98 PC configuration isn't to blame.

Joe.


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#27
submix8c

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<snip>(and which doesn't belong to the workgroup)<snip>

Did you miss that part?

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#28
jds

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<snip>(and which doesn't belong to the workgroup)<snip>

Did you miss that part?

No. The point is that this Vista can see a router which isn't a Windoze machine, doesn't have any LLDR patch, isn't part of a workgroup and doesn't have anything to share, yet it doesn't see (or pretends not to see) a W98 machine which, although it doesn't have an LLDR patch (because none is available), meets all the other requirements! :angry:

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#29
Tripredacus

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No. The point is that this Vista can see a router which isn't a Windoze machine, doesn't have any LLDR patch, isn't part of a workgroup and doesn't have anything to share, yet it doesn't see (or pretends not to see) a W98 machine which, although it doesn't have an LLDR patch (because none is available), meets all the other requirements! :angry:

Joe.


I would hazard a guess that the router supports uPnP which Vista also supports. However, Windows 98 doesn't natively and wouldn't be broadcasting itself as such a device.

I know this is an old topic, but basically the Win98 does not show up in Network, but can you get there using UNC Path with computer name or IP Address?
Example:
\\computername\
\\192.168.100.2\
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#30
jds

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I would hazard a guess that the router supports uPnP which Vista also supports. However, Windows 98 doesn't natively and wouldn't be broadcasting itself as such a device.

If the W98 desktop isn't broadcasting itself, how come the W98 laptop can see it?

I know this is an old topic, but basically the Win98 does not show up in Network, but can you get there using UNC Path with computer name or IP Address?
Example:
\\computername\
\\192.168.100.2\

Unfortunately, this and every other suggestion in this thread hasn't worked.

I can ping between the machines, use FTP or HTTP server & client software; currently I'm experimenting with TeamViewer 6.

Joe.

Edited by jds, 16 May 2012 - 05:55 PM.


#31
Tripredacus

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I would hazard a guess that the router supports uPnP which Vista also supports. However, Windows 98 doesn't natively and wouldn't be broadcasting itself as such a device.

If the W98 machine isn't broadcasting itself, how come the W98 laptop can see it?


I want to say that WIn98 uses something that Win7 doesn't. NetBIOS maybe? :unsure: I can't remember exactly what.
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#32
submix8c

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"NetBIOS over TCP/IP" on the given adapter's TCP/IP Properties - mine's grayed out (?) but checked (on W98SE in VirtPC).

Edited by submix8c, 14 May 2012 - 09:21 AM.

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#33
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Maybe it is this? :unsure:

NetBIOS Frames protocol
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#34
submix8c

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More specifically this (a link within your link)...

Firewalls have to have some allowances for this (Local and Remote, depending on what you want to allow); Port 139 is specifically File Sharing. Played heck getting Symantec to play nice with everything/"everyone" (all 3 ports) plus "ping"...

Edited by submix8c, 15 May 2012 - 03:23 PM.

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#35
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Oh I just remembered. On the Vista/7, if the Network Location is set to Public, you can't get to network shares. You would need to set it to Home (don't know if Work would... you know... work... :rolleyes: ), At least on Windows 7, if you are set to Public and try to go to a network share, a pop-up appears saying to enable File Sharing, which after doing so will change your Network Location. You can see your current setting in Network Connections, although if the PC is joined to a domain, it might say "domain" instead of "Work."
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#36
jds

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I want to say that WIn98 uses something that Win7 doesn't. NetBIOS maybe? :unsure: I can't remember exactly what.

BINGO! Thank you!!! That did the trick, W98 and Vista machines can now see each other. :)

I had tried enabling NetBIOS for IPv4 on the Vista laptop previously, but other settings have probably changed since then (I'll have to try remembering what).

I now have bidirectional access to files between my W98 laptop and my Vista laptop. I have unidirectional access between my W98 desktop and my Vista laptop (can access the W98 files from Vista, I'll need to investigate why it's not reciprocal as with the W98 laptop). Of course, I also have bidirectional access between the W98 desktop and W98 laptop (that's nothing new).

Joe.

PS#1. Correction : Further testing reveals that bidirectional communications between either W98 machine and the Vista laptop is problematic. Accessing anything from the Vista laptop on the W98 machines is unbelievably slow and sometimes results in an error, no doubt due to some internal timeouts. Accessing data from the W98 machines on the Vista laptop works normally.

PS#2. One of the changes made to the Vista configuration was in registry key HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Lsa :
"LmCompatibilityLevel"=dword:00000001
Other values I may have changed in the same registry key :
"NoLmHash"=dword:00000000
"disabledomaincreds"=dword:00000000
"restrictanonymous"=dword:00000000

Edited by jds, 20 May 2012 - 12:58 AM.


#37
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Win2K/XP/2k3 How-To (for sharing between 9x and those) with a nice explanation. ;)

Bottom line, Win9x needs those ports (IPv4 only - NetBios over TCP/IP) for Sharing (in addition to UserID's/Passwords/MS-Networking/File+Printer Sharing), along with the same thing for the other OS. Ain't TCP/IP Communications wonderful?

Edited by submix8c, 17 May 2012 - 07:39 AM.

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#38
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Congratulations! This is a major finding.

#39
submix8c

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@Multibooter - "major finding"??? Heck, I said it would work! I guess the "missing pieces" was some of the other posters comments (thank them as I couldn't remember).

Now to "collect" it all into a single step-by-step post and Sticky it.

Edited by submix8c, 17 May 2012 - 01:17 PM.

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#40
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Let's straighten this out (using some "loose" definitions/terms) -

Seven (or XP or Vista or Server 2k3/2k8) -
User-A and User-B defined
Signed on as User-A

Win9x (any flavor) -
User-B Defined (AFTER installing "Client for Microsoft Networks")
Signed on as User-B

Win9x does NOT have "ACL" since this is an NTFS-type "Sharing" facility ONLY. Shares between Win9x PC's by DEFAULT allow accesses (note READ-ONLY or FULL plus "Set a Password" under SHARING for given folder). It is NOT based upon User/Group Sign-On. ANY OS/USER can access the Share - Win9x could CARE LESS!

HOWEVER, on NTFS-type Systems, the Share Access MUST define WHICH Users/Groups, WHAT access for that User/Group, AND the Given User MUST have a Password set (REQUIRED). Interestingly, you need not be "signed on" to the Requesting computer (WHEN IT IS AN NTFS-TYPE SYSTEM) with a User/Password combo that is defined on the Sharing PC, but MUST have one defined on the Sharing PC to gain access (and then providing said User/Password combo when attempting access). The "Everyone" Group means "Everyone Defined on Said PC". NTFS-types DO CARE!

SO, in the Win9x System, "Client for Microsoft Networks" MUST be installed (in Control Panel->Network) AND used as "Primary Network Logon" AND a User/Password combination used that MUST MATCH that defined on the NTFS-type system ( see initial statements about User-B ).

If you don't believe me, install Win9x on a Virtual PC and try it as stated. Trust me, it works no other way... (this has been hashed before many times)

I can't seem to get it working. Need some help. I keep getting [You must supply a password to make this connection]

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#41
PROBLEMCHYLD

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I got it working. Most of the information from google is misleading, only a bit was accurate.

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#42
jaclaz

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I got it working. Most of the information from google is misleading, only a bit was accurate.

...and are you going to tell us HOW EXACTLY you made this happen, or if you prefer WHAT EXACT bit was the correct one and WHAT other bits are misleading? :unsure:

jaclaz

#43
PROBLEMCHYLD

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...and are you going to tell us HOW EXACTLY you made this happen, or if you prefer WHAT EXACT bit was the correct one and WHAT other bits are misleading? :unsure:

jaclaz

Google is your friend. Its has all the answers, even if a lot of them are wrong. Just kidding :thumbup I'll post step by step instructions later.

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#44
submix8c

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On NT system:
* As UserAdmin, Define UserA with PwdA - log onto it once and log out (creates the Docs/Settings, etc)
* As, UserAdmin, make a SHARE and set UserA as one of users to access with whatever "rights"
On Win9x system
* "Client for Microsoft Networks" MUST be installed (in Control Panel->Network)
* AND used as "Primary Network Logon"
* AND UserA/PwdA as a User

(Somewhere) there will be a WorkGroup name - make sure they are the same. Also make sure the two connected PC's have the same Subnet defined AND that "auto detect" is set for IP so that the connections will "join" each other.

On Win9x, reboot and sign in as UserA/PwdA - don't have that user signed onto the NT system (can't sign on TWICE onto same PC).

EDIT! Post came afterward. Please let me know if what I posted matches what you did. It does work for me bi-directional.

Edited by submix8c, 10 October 2012 - 09:51 AM.

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#45
PROBLEMCHYLD

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On Win9x system
* "Client for Microsoft Networks" MUST be installed (in Control Panel->Network)
* AND used as "Primary Network Logon"
* AND UserA/PwdA as a User

This is not mandatory. I used Client for Microsoft Networks and Windows Logon and they both worked.
Both directions was working for me. I even had Win 7 set to Send NTLMv2 response only. Refuse LM & NTLM and it was still working in both directions. I'm about to post the instrcutions. I was testing, making sure I got everything correct before I post. I don't want to give people the wrong instructions or information. @ submix8c, most of your instructions is needed so :thumbup to you.

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#46
PROBLEMCHYLD

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DSCLIENT.EXE Active Directory Client Extension is needed if not using SP but Client for Microsoft Networks is not needed for this procedure. You may use Client for Microsoft Networks if it suits you. To each their own :hello:

1. You want to have an Administrator account with a Password on the Win 7 computer.
2. You want to make sure all sharing options are enabled. Depending on what you are sharing, use your own discretion.
Right-click the folder you want to share. Click Properties --> Sharing --> Advanced Sharing.
Put a check mark on Share this folder. Click Permissions and set to your likings.
Click Apply --> OK ---> Apply --> OK ---> Close.
3. From the run box type SECPOL.MSC. In the Local Security Policy --> Security Options --> Network security: Lan Manager authentication level --> set to whatever security level suits you. There is no need to change registry values because once you change the security in Network security: Lan Manager authentication level, it is automatically changed in the registry.
4. On a Win98 machine, create a new user account with the same user name and password that is created on the Win 7 Administrator account. The Primary Network Logon does not matter.
5. Add this registry key, because without it, you will not be able to connect to Win 7. Reboot!

REGEDIT4

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\LSA]
"LMCompatibility"=dword:00000003
;
6. Log-in to the new account you just created.
7. Network Neighborhood is not an option. In Windows Explorer, navigate to the desired shared folder on the Win 7 machine.

Example: \\Win 7 Computer name\The folder you to access
\\JohnDoe\Music

If someone can come up with a better way to explain these instructions incase I didn't simplify please do so. I will ask a mod to remove my post if someone decides to do it.


On Win9x, reboot and sign in as UserA/PwdA - don't have that user signed onto the NT system (can't sign on TWICE onto same PC).
Yes you can :w00t:

Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD, 01 November 2014 - 07:04 PM.

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U98SESP3 03-11-2013


#47
submix8c

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Huh!

LmCompatibilityLevel
LMCompatibility
A little "combo" info and here.

Maybe the method I used is the difference. I didn't do any of the other steps you provided, only what I posted, AFAICR.
98SE on VPC VM <-> Win7 Home Premium via the NIC's<->Router
(DSCLIENT, as you said, is for accessing AD Domains)

Oh well, whichever flies, proving it can be done, the main thing being you have to (generally) have matching setups (User+Pwd, Workgroup, TCP/IP, etc.) on both ends.
Win9x<->Vista/Win7/Win8(?)/(+Server varieties)

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#48
PROBLEMCHYLD

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Oh well, whichever flies, proving it can be done, the main thing being you have to (generally) have matching setups (User+Pwd, Workgroup, TCP/IP, etc.) on both ends.
Win9x<->Vista/Win7/Win8(?)/(+Server varieties)

I agree, thats why most of your instructions was used. I was not able to connect until I added the registry key. See if you have the key on your Win98 machine and if you do delete it and try to connect again.
REGEDIT4

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\LSA]
"LMCompatibility"=dword:00000003
;

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U98SESP3 03-11-2013


#49
PROBLEMCHYLD

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I can confirm DSCLIENT is needed if you are NOT using U98SESP3.x. I have tested this with and without SP3.x.
SP3.x installs the same updated files as DSCLIENT except for the Active Directory files.

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U98SESP3 03-11-2013


#50
submix8c

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OK... I used AutoPatcher for my scenario, which undoubtedly(?) also has the necessary components that SESP has. Granted SESP goes beyond Autopatcher but I've been busy and haven't tested the latest SESP - the one I used was already in-place so...

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