[FlierMate]

I am curious, apart from Malaysia and China, how would the public from the rest of the worldd view those mentally ill, especially in developed lands?

In China, as from what I understood from the schizophrenic over there, unemployment among the mentally ill are high, and to my surprise, employers list NO mentally disabled as one of the criteria in their job ads! I am surprise because it does not, al least until now, happen in my mother country, Malaysia.

[ScrewUpgrading]

At least in China they will tell you to your face that your unwanted. Score one for China.

Over here, we like to sugar coat everything.

[FlierMate]

ScrewUpgrading, on 13 November 2011 - 06:58 AM, said:

At least in China they will tell you to your face that your unwanted. Score one for China.

Over here, we like to sugar coat everything.

and

I understand better now. I can't tell which is the better way.

[ScrewUpgrading]

I don't know which is better either. But I presume that China's blunt, "heartless" method probably saves everyone's time, if nothing else. Think about it, you never have to apply to the same place twice.

Think of all the wasted effort that people put into things in America. If only they knew that they were ugly, unattractive, and creepy looking, they might stop trying to get a job working with the public. Instead, they'd be more suited to Janitor, or Garbage Man, or Septic Tank pumper. Or ditch digger. Or dish washer. Or guinea pig for the drug companies.

^ I'd take any of those jobs in a heartbeat however, except drug company "guinea pig".

This post has been edited by ScrewUpgrading: 13 November 2011 - 07:21 AM

[jaclaz]

I cannot really see the connection between a mentally ill and his/her looks.

jaclaz

[FlierMate]

ScrewUpgrading, on 13 November 2011 - 07:17 AM, said:

I don't know which is better either. But I presume that China's blunt, "heartless" method probably saves everyone's time, if nothing else. Think about it, you never have to apply to the same place twice.

Maybe with the populous citizens in China, employers can easily seek for suitable candidates.

ScrewUpgrading, on 13 November 2011 - 07:17 AM, said:

Think of all the wasted effort that people put into things in America. If only they knew that they were ugly, unattractive, and creepy looking, they might stop trying to get a job working with the public. Instead, they'd be more suited to Janitor, or Garbage Man, or Septic Tank pumper. Or ditch digger. Or dish washer. Or guinea pig for the drug companies.

It is quite true. I think it is not about honesty under such circumstances, it is more about a friendlier approach.

ScrewUpgrading, on 13 November 2011 - 07:17 AM, said:

^ I'd take any of those jobs in a heartbeat however, except drug company "guinea pig".

Do you mean volunteers who are paid to try out new drugs?

[FlierMate]

jaclaz, on 13 November 2011 - 07:44 AM, said:

I cannot really see the connection between a mentally ill and his/her looks.

We can't tell one's mental condition from his or her looks unless odd behaviour or disorganized speech is observed.

For your information, I am one of them.

[jaclaz]

FlierMate, on 13 November 2011 - 08:35 AM, said:

For your information, I am one of them.

You mean a mentally affected or the "ugly, unattractive, and creepy looking" Screwupgrading was talking about?

Also, "mental condition" may mean everything and the opposite of it.
And NO, I don't want to know which particular illness (being it mental or physical) you might be suffering from, I don't think this (MSFN) is the right place to talk about such conditions.

jaclaz

[FlierMate]

jaclaz, on 13 November 2011 - 09:20 AM, said:

I don't think this (MSFN) is the right place to talk about such conditions.

Do you have any suggestions?

[ScrewUpgrading]

I never said all people with mental disorders are ugly.

I was merely suggesting that Americans are more prone to blind optimism and self-delusion in regards to their lot in life. Whereas in China, they blatantly discriminate against anyone perceived as being "different" or "mentally ill."

I probably should've worded that differently.

This post has been edited by ScrewUpgrading: 13 November 2011 - 06:05 PM

[FlierMate]

ScrewUpgrading, on 13 November 2011 - 05:58 PM, said:

I never said all people with mental disorders are ugly.

I was merely suggesting that Americans are more prone to blind optimism and self-delusion in regards to their lot in life. Whereas in China, they blatantly discriminate against anyone perceived as being "different" or "mentally ill."

I probably should've worded that differently.

I see the connection behind it. I did not misunderstand your words.

May I share your comments with that schizophrenic message board in China? They are going to set up an English message board so that we (just like this thread) can exchange information about mental disorders. Your view is valuable to me from the perspective of the society with diverse backgrounds just like America.

I really am glad that you share this with me (and with us, later on)

[ScrewUpgrading]

Sure, go ahead.

Just let me add a little disclaimer: I'm not a doctor. My opinion is my own and not anybody else's here at MSFN. I don't represent MSFN.

Consult your doctor if you have real medical problems.

(There, just some legal mumbo jumbo to stop the lawyers.)

[FlierMate]

ScrewUpgrading, on 14 November 2011 - 06:29 PM, said:

Sure, go ahead.

Just let me add a little disclaimer: I'm not a doctor. My opinion is my own and not anybody else's here at MSFN. I don't represent MSFN.

Consult your doctor if you have real medical problems.

(There, just some legal mumbo jumbo to stop the lawyers.)

Thank you, ScrewUpgrading.

You are so humorous.

[ScrewUpgrading]

[FlierMate]

ScrewUpgrading, on 14 November 2011 - 09:46 PM, said:

Thank you very much for your opinions.

Now, the English section of the message board is up.
I have copy and paste your valuable opinions to there.

Mental Disorder and Stigma: China and America

[e-t-c]

hmm - look at "YousTupe" - the Mental Mocker Fans are everywhere - fear & crime anytime
cRappers delight & deaf-crash-mental rocker-schmockers, sick-attitude-bachelors .. etc.

aaaahhhhh ... ;'(

This post has been edited by e-t-c: 16 November 2011 - 01:00 AM

[Tripredacus]

jaclaz, on 13 November 2011 - 07:44 AM, said:

I cannot really see the connection between a mentally ill and his/her looks.

One can look to cartoons at least, often a character that is "criminally insane" or "mentally deranged" or some other type of person with some sort of mental illness is often depicted as either extremely ugly or with some odd trait such as twitching, slurred speech or drooling. You can even see it in comic books where villians described as "insane" or "psychotic" often have some physical deformity, such as the Joker or Two-Face from Batman.

As for why this stereotype was started, I couldn't say. Possibly because you wouldn't want to hang out with an ugly person, and you don't want to hang out with a murderer or criminal?

Why it still exists... well some things just keep with time, such as rabbits eating carrots.

[dencorso]

I think Lombroso's theory of the "born criminal" has something to do with it. He proposed it at the end of the 19th century, and it became hugely popular. It has been recognized as bogus science for a long time already, but remains strong in the popular imaginary.

[jaclaz]

Well, correlating the current "standard" for beauty (movie stars) with actual density of psychiatrists/psichoanalysts in the Los Angeles/Hollywood area, one could come to the conclusion that real life is different from comic books.

There is here a small list of famous peple (admittedly not all beautiful/handsome) that are said to have suffered from various forms of mental ilnesses:
http://www.mentalhea...amouspeople.pdf

I would say that in real life - set apart those traits that are a consequence of an illness (such as drooling, or trembling as an example) - there is no correlation between uglyness and mental illness.

Lombroso's theories were an early attempt to show that some particular physical traits, not necessarily "uglyness" were common among criminals and un-common among "good people".
Besides some bias in the actual researches he conducted, one has to take into account WHERE they were taken and WHEN.

We are talking of the second half of the 19th century in a country where communications, food, education and more generally welfare of the average people were very scarce or non-existing at all.

In those years, in some rural zones of the country, the average tallness of population was likely to be below 1.50 mt (around 5' ), there was not a common language, analphabetism was around 80%, the people inside jails (which must have not been such a pleasant place in themselves) were likely to be belonging to the poorest of the poor, not really a big surprise that the scientist found that those subjects belonged to a subhuman race.

More generally Lombroso's theories fall in the "trend" of physiognomy:
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Physiognomy
and phrenology:
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Phrenology
that both had quite a bit of diffusion in the 19th and early 20th century.
Curiously enough Lombroso's theories had much more success overseas in the US than in Italy , this probably influenced the comic books which were mostly originated there .


jaclaz

This post has been edited by jaclaz: 16 November 2011 - 11:12 AM