jumper

2012 Project Wish List

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2012 MSFN Project Wish List

Hardware and drivers

  1. WDM hardware driver repackager / installer
    • partial project: minf
    • create 9x driver from any WDM driver
    • support: .inf, .msi, Inno, custom installers...

  • extract files:
    • with 7zip, ...
    • run installer (with help from Kex) and grab from tmp

    [*] extract needed registry settings:

    • from .inf
    • from data / resources in .exe

    [*] remap folder and registry references

    [*] build .inf for install/uninstall

    [*] NDISwrapper-like

[*] WDM api extender: snapback.pngsnapback.pngsnapback.pngsnapback.pngsnapback.pngsnapback.png

[*] Support for hard disks with 4 kilobyte native sectors

  • ATA, SATA, USB or otherwise connected

[*] Hyper-threading / Multi-core support

[*] Hybrid flash-backed RAM drive

  • compression!
  • flash write combining
  • FAT in RAM
  • EWF-like

[*] AGP RAM disk

  • AGP / PCI video texture memory
  • non-XMS so no virtual address space load
  • My 128MB Predator could add 120MB RDD to 256MB system!

System and software

  1. MSVCRT update with NT functions
    • project discussion
    • MSVCR70/71 used as replacement
    • MFC42.DLL and possibly others must also be replaced
    • Need someone(s) to install SP3, sub in R70/71 for RT and begin testing with older apps.

[*] Modern web browsing

  • Firefox, Opera, Kmeleon
  • custom builds, more Kex support
  • IPv6 support and compatible firewall

[*] "New style" Java plug-in support

[*] Flash dynamic loader / switcher

  • NPSWF32.dll / flash*.ocx stubs that could load 9/10/11 based on URL
  • Browser independent

[*] System DLL rebaser / binder

  • DLL's from a variety of sources probably do not all load at their preferred bases
  • Relocated modules cannot be swapped out!

KernelEx

  1. Better XP SP2+ stability
  2. All printing functions / issues
    • project topic :thumbup
    • solution for apps using PrintDlgExA and PrintDlgExW

[*] Support for:

  • Opera 11, 12
  • Firefox plug-ins: 20-20/Ikea, ...
  • Acrobat Reader 7.09
  • Adobe Air version 1.5


Post your wish, or discuss any of these. If a new wish is seconded, I'll add it to the list above. Links to existing or new projects will be included....

Edited by jumper
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•create 9x driver from any WDM driver

That would be awesome.

It would be nice to find a way to provides the required NT5 services into win9x system.

story:

I experienced a wireless usb modem driver refuse to work on some xp box.

Long story short, i copied the drivers .sys files into win98se box, and analyze it the using wdmcheck.

From missing imports names reported by wdmcheck, i figured what nt5 services needed to be set automatic for the drivers to works on that xp box.

and yeah, before i decided to use wdmcheck i already check xp event logs for clues, but i couldn't find any.

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It would be nice to find a way to provides the required NT5 services into win9x system.

How about a service emulator that can also run the services of apps that use their own, like VirtualBox or SandBoxie? Either or both would be useful as long as we don't end up turning 98 into a service based OS and end up building XP (with all its vulnerabilities) all over again.

I realize that it's come up over and over, but since this is a wish list, how about IPv6 support? In a way, this ties in with the above as we'll need the ability to run an IPv6 compatible firewall (not current full blown security suites).

Edited by herbalist
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We seem to be getting more coders and additional talent here (with more of the discussions going beyond what I understand). And since this is a wish list, how about the ability to at least partially take advantage of dual or multi core processor or multiple processors? Even if this was limited to being able to dedicate or assign the 2nd processor to a single demanding application.

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I agree with herbalist, I have a single core processor but I think we need to build support for multi-threading instead of single threading. Xp uses this I believe, and having NT services (only ones useful to the user), which users can choose which ones they want to use would be sure to have some positive outcome from this feature. I think it would improve things alot with stability and performance too.

Edited by mrsk565
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We seem to be getting more coders and additional talent here (with more of the discussions going beyond what I understand). And since this is a wish list, how about the ability to at least partially take advantage of dual or multi core processor or multiple processors? Even if this was limited to being able to dedicate or assign the 2nd processor to a single demanding application.

I have written an API that supports multi-core. At present it does require that Applications be written to use the API.

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With KernelEx able to make many 2K/XP programs work very well, a repeating "but" seems to be developing, and that is "except printing".

My wish for 2012 would be the development of an interface to catch all the W2K print calls, and translate them into something that W9x can send to a printer. As a dilettante programmer, I have no idea whether this is achievable, or how big an ask it is. But point me in the right direction and I'll muck in with someone who knows how these things work, so that I can learn.

Jeff

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My 2c (these probably fall into the KernelEx domain) :

1. Fix the XP SP2 (+) emulation, so it is as stable as the 2000 SP4 emulation. Many applications and their installers (Opera 11, Acrobat Reader 7.09, etc.) work pretty well using the latter, but crash with the former. Missing/buggy functions?

2. Solve the "new style" Java plug-in problem, so we can get Java on Opera 11, FF 3.6+, etc.

3. Get other FF plug-ins, such as the 20-20/Ikea "kitchen planner" to work (with NT5, this even works with FF 2.0.0.22pre).

4. Solve remaining issues with Opera, such as crashing when a new instance is attempted, or when it is the default browser and you double-click on a HTM file.

5. Solve remaining issues with Acrobat Reader 7.09, such as crashing when you right-click within a File-Open or File-Save dialogue, or the blank text in the search results when you use the "binoculars".

6. Get Adobe Air version 1.5 or higher (and Adobe Air applications) to work.

Joe.

PS. :

7. Fix the history & bookmark problem with FF 5/6/7/8.

PPS. :

5a. Stop Acrobat Reader 7.09 crashing when you select "Document Properties" in the "File" menu.

PPPS. :

8. Office 2007 File Format Converters (Microsoft Office Compatibility Pack for Word, Excel, and PowerPoint File Formats).

Edited by jds
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... analyze it the using wdmcheck.

From missing imports names reported by wdmcheck...

Quite interesting trick... I'll sure try it next time I need to find why some driver is refusing to work on XP.

@jumper: BTW, WDMCHECK's companion, Walter Oney's WDMSTUB.SYS, can make some WDM drivers work with 9x/ME, and might be updated to include more stubs inside it. It's like KernelEx, but caters for .SYS WDM drivers, specifically. it could very well be the long sought-for solution for getting the printer drivers to work. The sources are provided in Oney's drivers book.

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Hi ... just wanted to add a few words to this thread. I have to agree with herbalist when he said in Post #4 : "We seem to be getting more coders and additional talent here (with more of the discussions going beyond what I understand)." ... well this goes for me also, I know from past readings and some help from herbalist that he's a lot more knowledgeable than me on many computer related subjects, so I am way down the ladder (very near the bottom) in understanding what all is actually being discussed in various threads ... but I find it all very interesting to read and I do pick up on something here and there. Just wanted to say, I'm glad all these different discussions are going on. If I remember, it was just a few months ago that someone posted that the Windows 98SE thread or discussion group was "dead" and for awhile last summer, it may have seemed that way but it seems to have "come back to life" in the last two months or so. We have PROBLEMCHYLD working with his U98SESP3 project, we are very lucky to have rloew in the Windows 98SE thread with all his "solutions and fixes" to various problems ... the list goes on with many other people with questions, thoughts and solutions. We can appreciate that they are in this thread throwing out ideas and solutions.

I enjoy reading everything, not always sure "what I'm reading" or if I can make use of something myself, until I get more input or a "simpler" explanation.

I have to say, 2012 looks to be an "exciting year" for the Windows 98SE thread and it's far from being dead.

Good luck to all in 2012.

mike

...

Edited by duffy98
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My 2c (these probably fall into the KernelEx domain) :

1. Fix the XP SP2 (+) emulation, so it is as stable as the 2000 SP4 emulation. Many applications and their installers (Opera 11, Acrobat Reader 7.09, etc.) work pretty well using the latter, but crash with the former. Missing/buggy functions?

2. Solve the "new style" Java plug-in problem, so we can get Java on Opera 11, FF 3.6+, etc.

3. Get other FF plug-ins, such as the 20-20/Ikea "kitchen planner" to work (with NT5, this even works with FF 2.0.0.22pre).

4. Solve remaining issues with Opera, such as crashing when a new instance is attempted, or when it is the default browser and you double-click on a HTM file.

5. Solve remaining issues with Acrobat Reader 7.09, such as crashing when you right-click within a File-Open or File-Save dialogue, or the blank text in the search results when you use the "binoculars".

6. Get Adobe Air version 1.5 or higher (and Adobe Air applications) to work.

Joe.

Joe you make some good points, java console is really a pain to try and get working. I got this error but havent been down that road of trying to fix it if it can even be fixed. 2, XP emulation does need to be more stable like others. I agree these are good topics to work on fixing for more performance.

Shane

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I certainly would love if this could be reintegrated in KernelEx but I don't keep my hopes high. Anyway I thought I 'd mention it just in case someone feels he can do it.

:hello:

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[...] that is binary compatible with Windows and Windows NT [...] If you develop a driver for Windows 2000 or Whistler

When this tool was made : does the dev imply that video drivers fall within the WDM model or were they still using the NT model ?

It would be awesome to expand the range of supported graphics cards, especially for ATI users who are mostly stuck with 9k series cards.

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Win 2k and XP drivers are WDM, all right. But the implementation of WDM differs somewhat between those NT-Family OSes and the 9x/ME-Family. So sound drivers and USB drivers are the most likely to work, although some need WDMSTUB.SYS to work correctly. Video drivers are among the least likely to work across families, because the video subsystem implementation is hugely different across families, I'm sorry to say.

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Wish list ? First thing, a happy and peaceful year for everybody !

As for Windows 9x (and DOS) enhancements : support for hard disks with 4 kilobyte native sectors, whether ATA, SATA, USB or otherwise connected.

I have got such a USB disk appliance - that I can't use in our beloved "older" OS :(

I am aware of Mr Loew's commercial patches - do they include support for USB attached 4k-sectored disks (or cooperate with third party USB mass storage support ?)

But - this is wish time isn' it - can't we work towards a free/libre solution ?

And why not hope R. Loew could generously release his big sector patches - or otherwise contribute his knowledge of undocumented DOS 7 / Windows 9x disk structures.

Edited by Czerno
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accidental double post, text deleted. Sorry!

Edited by Czerno
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Win 2k and XP drivers are WDM, all right. But the implementation of WDM differs somewhat between those NT-Family OSes and the 9x/ME-Family. So sound drivers and USB drivers are the most likely to work, although some need WDMSTUB.SYS to work correctly. Video drivers are among the least likely to work across families, because the video subsystem implementation is hugely different across families, I'm sorry to say.

<sigh> I was skeptical about it but seeing that tool I thought we might just pull it off with a wrapper.

Anyway, thanks for the clarifications ! I've heard about this problem for quite some time but I never managed to find any detailed information about it. Would you happen to know where I can find more details as to why 98/ME supports only a subset of the features specified in the WDM model ? The DDK had lots of info on supported stuff, but nothing regarding why video drivers don't work.

PS: For clarification : I understood what you said only that I'd like to read the technical details so-to-say.

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Wish list ? First thing, a happy and peaceful year for everybody !

As for Windows 9x (and DOS) enhancements : support for hard disks with 4 kilobyte native sectors, whether ATA, SATA, USB or otherwise connected.

I have got such a USB disk appliance - that I can't use in our beloved "older" OS :(

I am aware of Mr Loew's commercial patches - do they include support for USB attached 4k-sectored disks (or cooperate with third party USB mass storage support ?)

My TBPLUS Package supports all of the interfaces you listed. USB support requires generic drivers such as NUSB, my free Lexar based Drivers, or Windows ME derived support.

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I understood what you said only that I'd like to read the technical details so-to-say.

Well, the bible of WDM is Walter Oney's book, Programming the MS WDM, but his site has a lot of interesting info, too.

This old version of WDMSTUB, when it was still a VxD, is also interesting. Then there is his classic article on WDM: Part 1, Part 2 and Errata. Enjoy!

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Great ideas! :thumbup

KernelEx is crucial to most of our wishes, so I'll add it as a separate category. It is already accumulating many wishes of its own.

Java is one I had thought of but completely forgot. Printer/printing is another--hardware and software issue here.

I'll review all discussion and update the Wish List tonight!

-jumper

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... analyze it the using wdmcheck.

From missing imports names reported by wdmcheck...

Quite interesting trick... I'll sure try it next time I need to find why some driver is refusing to work on XP.

@jumper: BTW, WDMCHECK's companion, Walter Oney's WDMSTUB.SYS, can make some WDM drivers work with 9x/ME, and might be updated to include more stubs inside it. It's like KernelEx, but caters for .SYS WDM drivers, specifically. it could very well be the long sought-for solution for getting the printer drivers to work. The sources are provided in Oney's drivers book.

Note that the "printing problem" often mentioned regarding KernelEx is specific to the printer driver being used, and not a universal problem. In my case, I was able to identify the offending DLL from the printer driver and disable KernelEx for it, so now printing works fine for me.

Wish list ? First thing, a happy and peaceful year for everybody !

As for Windows 9x (and DOS) enhancements : support for hard disks with 4 kilobyte native sectors, whether ATA, SATA, USB or otherwise connected.

I have got such a USB disk appliance - that I can't use in our beloved "older" OS :(

I am aware of Mr Loew's commercial patches - do they include support for USB attached 4k-sectored disks (or cooperate with third party USB mass storage support ?)

But - this is wish time isn' it - can't we work towards a free/libre solution ?

And why not hope R. Loew could generously release his big sector patches - or otherwise contribute his knowledge of undocumented DOS 7 / Windows 9x disk structures.

Well, if I remember correctly, USB drives with sectors up to 4K are already supported. I had an MP3 player with 1K sectors and that worked fine on W98 (until it developed a hardware fault).

Any yes, let's wish for a better, peaceful world!

Win 2k and XP drivers are WDM, all right. But the implementation of WDM differs somewhat between those NT-Family OSes and the 9x/ME-Family. So sound drivers and USB drivers are the most likely to work, although some need WDMSTUB.SYS to work correctly. Video drivers are among the least likely to work across families, because the video subsystem implementation is hugely different across families, I'm sorry to say.

<sigh> I was skeptical about it but seeing that tool I thought we might just pull it off with a wrapper.

Anyway, thanks for the clarifications ! I've heard about this problem for quite some time but I never managed to find any detailed information about it. Would you happen to know where I can find more details as to why 98/ME supports only a subset of the features specified in the WDM model ? The DDK had lots of info on supported stuff, but nothing regarding why video drivers don't work.

PS: For clarification : I understood what you said only that I'd like to read the technical details so-to-say.

As far as I could understand what little I've read, WDM drivers share common source code for bot W9X and WNT, but use some different build setting or libraries or some such.

Joe.

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Well, if I remember correctly, USB drives with sectors up to 4K are already supported. I had an MP3 player with 1K sectors and that worked fine on W98 (until it developed a hardware fault).

IKB yes. 2KB yes. 4KB no.

There is also the issue of Partitioning and Formatting them as well.

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Well, if I remember correctly, USB drives with sectors up to 4K are already supported. I had an MP3 player with 1K sectors and that worked fine on W98 (until it developed a hardware fault).

IKB yes. 2KB yes. 4KB no.

There is also the issue of Partitioning and Formatting them as well.

I stand corrected. I guess MS were catering for CD-ROM support, where 2K sectors are the norm.

BTW, I finally found your previous comment on this 2K limit :

Joe.

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Well, if I remember correctly, USB drives with sectors up to 4K are already supported. I had an MP3 player with 1K sectors and that worked fine on W98 (until it developed a hardware fault).

IKB yes. 2KB yes. 4KB no.

There is also the issue of Partitioning and Formatting them as well.

I stand corrected. I guess MS were catering for CD-ROM support, where 2K sectors are the norm.

BTW, I finally found your previous comment on this 2K limit :

Joe.

Apparently. You can stick a 2KB Sector FATxx Partition on a CD and it is recognized.

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Hello,

my little wish is to able to boot and run Win98Se from a external USB HDD drive at USB 2 speed. That would be wonderful.

Happy new year 2012 to all!

I41Mar

Edited by I41Mar
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