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JorgeA

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

6,162 posts in this topic

Win8 also has code to supressStartScreen, but only Servers allow it. I think this applies, too for 8.1/Blue.

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The only new design that I could see myself being remotely interested in, would be a "Dick Tracy"-type watch. As long as I could keep the timekeeping function working while selectively turning on or off the communication (and location-tracking) functions.

Well, despite my status as a certified Win8 "hater," I'm glad to learn that my tastes are actually in tune with the latest trends in technology... ;) About twenty years ago (the exact timeframe doesn't matter), I remember thinking how it would make a lot of sense to have a single machine that would (1) print documents, (2) photocopy documents, (3) scan documents, and (4) send and receive faxes, and I wondered why nobody was selling anything like that, it would save space in the office and money for all these different pieces of equipment. And then lo and behold, soon thereafter my fantasy came true and manufacturers started coming out with multifunction printers. :)

MS being late to a tech party? So, what else is new?? :D

http://www.techradar.com/news/world-of-tech/your-laziness-will-force-nfc-onto-apple-watch-1143721

People are lazy; fact. I know this because I am a fully paid up member of the human race and, shock horror, sometimes I can't be bothered to reach those into my pocket even when it benefits me to do so.

es, for the people who type Facebook into Google rather than into their browser's URL bar to those who still sit through the adverts on their DVR rather than reach for the remote control, I have come to a conclusion that will not only save you oodles of effort - but may well make Smart Watches like the moted Apple Watch a viable piece of tech.

With Apple, Samsung and Pebble beavering away at persuading us that we need to fork out for a connected wrist watch, it occurred to me, while buying a pint of milk no less, that Smart Watches would only be worthwhile for me if they had an NFC (near field communication) chip in.

Humanity is doomed... :whistle:

Man, if people are so lazy that they can't be bothered to spend 1/20th of a calorie to hit the remote, and they would rather while away their limited time on Earth letting the commercials run -- then I have to agree with you: humanity is doomed. :no:

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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Will Windows 8.1 allow users to boot to desktop? ( NeoWin 2013-04-14 )

So it seems there might be an export in TwinUI.dll that will be called CanSupressStartScreen that might point to something like a group policy setting enabling bypass of Metro. Naturally this has ignited trouble in land of MetroTards, anger naturally: "Well at least it will shut up all the cry babies who are stuck in the past.. But I'm sure they'll find something else to throw a tantrum over.. Personally I love the start screen. And don't miss the old start menu at all.", and denial: "Keep dreaming. There's a reason traditional PC sales are soft,everyone wants touch and slim devices like ultrabooks and tablets. Windows 8 is adapting to what consumers want not a select few master internet complainers.".

What I think is happening is that the option will be in place, much like sideloading exists, but will have only two scenarios ... for use by Enterprise customers ... and ... kept as an Ace in the Hole just in case the government ever pursues antitrust, which they should because Windows will no longer be an operating system if it boots straight to Metro and all software must be signed, vetted and originate from the Microsoft Store.

Here's a couple more links on this "boot to the desktop in Win8" idea:

Microsoft to allow users to jump straight to desktop in Windows 8.1?

Here's what booting to the desktop in Windows 8.1 might look like

--JorgeA

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Additional tidbits on "Windows 8.1" (or "Blue"):

More screenshots of Windows 8.1 build 9374 leak online

Does Microsoft have a 'Plan B' if Windows 8.1 (Windows Blue) fails?

Some add-ons expected in this new version are: An easier-to-customize Start Screen, Internet Explorer 11, newer apps, Slide-To-Shutdown, more Personalization Options, Modern File Manager, and better Battery life. There are so many more I can't even begin to list them. But...what if that's not what the people want...and it does nothing to relieve the tension lingering within Windows 8 users and Microsoft?

According to rumors, Microsoft will delay the release of Windows 9, which is currently being worked on alongside Windows 8.1, and Windows 8.2 will be developed as a last resort to save themselves.

--JorgeA

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Additional tidbits on "Windows 8.1" (or "Blue"):

More screenshots of Windows 8.1 build 9374 leak online

Does Microsoft have a 'Plan B' if Windows 8.1 (Windows Blue) fails?

Some add-ons expected in this new version are: An easier-to-customize Start Screen, Internet Explorer 11, newer apps, Slide-To-Shutdown, more Personalization Options, Modern File Manager, and better Battery life. There are so many more I can't even begin to list them. But...what if that's not what the people want...and it does nothing to relieve the tension lingering within Windows 8 users and Microsoft?

According to rumors, Microsoft will delay the release of Windows 9, which is currently being worked on alongside Windows 8.1, and Windows 8.2 will be developed as a last resort to save themselves.

--JorgeA

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yeh they will delay win9 to grab as much money as they can on forced 8 that is actually bottom pit :whistle:

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Microsoft to allow users to jump straight to desktop in Windows 8.1? ( WinBeta 2013-04-14 )

Windows 8.1 May Reintroduce Boot-To-Desktop Mode ( Tom's Hardware 2013-04-15 )

First link is thanks to Jorge which I somehow missed last night. It is the originating story that NeoWin and everyone else is referencing. Here is the screencap of the possible function name or policy setting seen in TwinUI.dll ...

LWIgAW3.jpg

Windows 8.1 may add app download progress bar under Live Tile ( NeoWin 2013-04-15 )

Now here is some of that patented lower bar innovation. :whistle: I don't know who added the helpful arrow, but it really fits in well in Windows 8 Playskool Edition. :lol:

Ou9KYaR.jpg

Dell exec: Windows RT demand is slow but future RT devices still planned ( NeoWin 2013-04-15 )

Dell standing by Windows RT, working on future ARM devices ( The Verge 2013-04-16 )

Another vote of confidence to help the MetroTards sleep at night. :thumbup My advice, take up drinking ( but don't drive ), you're gonna need it. :lol:

EDIT: added article(s), updated image URLs

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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That was an interesting speculation:

Previous reports surrounding the leaked Windows 8.1 builds indicate that Microsoft is actually trying to move even further away from the desktop, throwing more controls onto the Start screen than before. But with Windows 8 partially blamed for the continued decline in PC sales, Microsoft may not have any choice but to allow Windows 8 towers and laptops to be sold with the desktop as the primary focus, not the new Start screen. This could possibly ease consumer reluctance in upgrading their current Windows platform or from buying a completely new machine.

Windows 8.1 may add app download progress bar under Live Tile ( NeoWin 2013-04-15 )

Now here is some of that patented lower bar innovation. :whistle: I don't know who added the helpful arrow, but it really fits in well in Windows 8 Playskool Edition. :lol:

5Kt2coQ.jpg

That would be a remarkably grudging concession to what from MSFT's viewpoint must be the user's mysterious desire to know what the heck is happening on his own machine -- a tiny, hair's-breadth progress bar. How wide is that, like four pixels? :angry:

--JorgeA

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Dell exec: Windows RT demand is slow but future RT devices still planned ( NeoWin 2013-04-15 )

Another vote of confidence to help the MetroTards sleep at night. :thumbup My advice, take up drinking ( but don't drive ), you're gonna need it. :lol:

The commenters were pretty incisive (and even the Win8 defenders were civil, mostly). A sample:

Poor Dell, they must be under some pressure from Microsoft to make a statement like this.
Pretty much. Since any other company would be too embarrassed to say theyre planning on spending money that they'll never see a return on.

I was going to post here with something along those same lines, but then they'd already done that.

If it wasn't a crappy device, any perceived negativity would not exist. The market reacting is not a conspiracy like fanboys want to believe. It all starts with a requirement to make a good, compelling product. Microsoft half-assed it, they didnt market how it was different from regular windows, instead they gave multi-million dollar checks to ad agencies to make creepy boardroom breakdancing videos.

My wife finds those Surface commercials pretty stupid. Last night we were watching "Mad Men" (IIRC) and they showed one of those. She gave out an annoyed grunt and sped up the fast-forward. I almost felt sorry for Microsoft, the ads are so bad.

And a good one to sum up the Neowin article --

Talk about rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic...
Edited by JorgeA
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Rumor: Microsoft Working on a Smart Watch Too ( Tom's Hardware 2013-04-15 )

Microsoft smart watch would be 'snipe hunt' distraction from Windows 8 ( ComputerWorld 2013-04-15 )

Seeing the picture they used in the first article inspired this ...

qzPqZR8.jpg

A vision for Microsoft's smartwatch and four more Surface family members ( PC World 2013-04-15 )

They have a different picture in their article used as inspiration for this ...

gncvqwj.jpg

Facebook considering bringing Home to Windows Phone, iPhone ( NeoWin 2013-04-16 )

Only a couple of days ago the MetroTards were attacking the Facebook "Home" thingie announcement for Android. Hmmm. What do suppose they're gonna say when they read this. :whistle:

Windows 8/RT: State of the Tablet/Hybrid Hardware ( Thurrott 2013-04-15 )

Actual subtitle: Windows 8/RT devices are getting better all the time, but then they could only get better. He's making some sense this time ...

Let’s kick RT to the curb first.

Looking at this year alone, I see no scenario where Windows RT is successful as anything other than a system used by companion devices. The new push to 8-inch devices we’re now hearing about makes sense for Windows RT, but only if the app and game market expands greatly and if Microsoft gets serious about making the Xbox Music and Video services real contenders. (Barring that, the appearance of a few more high-level media services on the platform—like those from Amazon—could make a difference too.)

That could change in 2014. But it’s not 2014, and while we have an idea about what’s coming this year to Windows RT 8.1 “Blue” from a software perspective, and to the ARM chipset from a hardware perspective this year, 2014 is still a gray area. This year, Windows RT and ARM simply don’t make sense from a mainstreaming computing platform perspective. My advice is to skip it. That most PC and hardware makers have opted out of RT is perhaps all you need to know for the moment.

But of course Paul's middle name is "The Desktop Must Die" so I expect he'll be back plugging away at this walled garden iOS styled pOS pipedream again next week. :yes:

EDIT: added article(s)

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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Microsoft tries to swipe "Blink" trademark from Google ( NeoWin 2013-04-16 )

As was reported a few weeks ago, Google is ditching WebKit in their Chrome browser for an all new rendering engine called "Blink". However, Microsoft has been a tad sneaky at the US Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO), filing a trademark for "Blink" just six days after Google announced their intentions to call their rendering engine Blink, likely to protect their existing property.

Wow, that's 3 clear cases of Microsoft snaking the names of other companies' products, 4 if you count the Metro naming fiasco.

Several NeoWhiners disagree though, saying that this is ok because they have an app called Blink already ...

This article is misleading, full of accusation, and fails to explain the chronological history of the app. Basically, it tries to paint MS in a very negative tone by the word choices such as "sneaky" and "tries to swipe".

Blink was a Lens app revealed by Microsoft and Nokia back in September 2012. Microsoft then released it in February 2013 for the WP8 platform as an app. In fact, I have been using this Blink app long before Google announces the change from WebKit to Blink.

Well I got a question for this NeoWhiner. Where were you when BING was stolen? How about the more recent MBAM? Were you concerned for those famous already existing 3rd party applications? I just was talking about this a few posts back in Post #2544 ...

Microsoft Desktop Optimization Pack (MDOP) 2013 released

( this is for enterprise of course ). In keeping with their usual disdain for the loyal customers, important software like DaRT is NOT available to the hapless home user, who is instead expected to get software expertise for free from friends, family or tech blogs like this. What a scam. But there is something interesting in there ...

The official Windows Business blog has the details of what's included in MDOP 2013, which has Service Pack 1 updates of AGPM 4.0, DaRT 8.0, App-V 5.0, and UE-V 1.0. However, the biggest new addition is the official release of MBAM 2.0. In fact, its so big, it gets a separate and highly detailed blog post on the official Microsoft Springboard series blog.

Now this isn't the first time that Microsoft has stolen someone else's obvious trademark. Malwarebytes Anti-Malware aka MBAM has been around for at least 5 years now. And what is especially troublesome is that it is a very very good program. Previously Microsoft pulled the same thing with Terabyte by ripping off their well-known nickname for their highly regarded Bootit Next-Generation aka BING. If I am not mistaken, that was settled out of court for unspecified terms. This one over MBAM should be sent to court if you ask me because associating Microsoft with it can only damage the otherwise stellar reputation they now enjoy. :lol:

This one might get interesting. :yes: One thing I think is certain, there is a big problem in Redmond. They are reckless and acting like a desperate crazy person that needs to be on a suicide watch.

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Owww, come off it.

They also stole Vista :ph34r: from Italian (do you have an idea how difficult is since 2006 or so to find a valid web search result for a hotel room in Italy with a panoramic view?) and Windows from English (try finding online someone willing to repair your windows (the thingies made of wood or aluminum and glass) .... :whistle: ), etc., etc.

They stole Surface (besides English) from themselves :w00t: creating more confusion than anything:

http://www.forensicfocus.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=9981/start=7/

This is common to each and every company, we have seen car examples earlier, making a fuss about it is futile (like resistance is), mindless marketing jerks will use common words to identify products and awful acronyms (such as MBAM or MDOP or ADK) for the rest., you'll need to learn to live with that.. :(

And Bing, to me, still means ;):

Chandler-Bing-friends-16864199-500-299.jpg

jaclaz

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Owww, come off it.

They also stole Vista :ph34r: from Italian (do you have an idea how difficult is since 2006 or so to find a valid web search result for a hotel room in Italy with a panoramic view?) and Windows from English (try finding online someone willing to repair your windows (the thingies made of wood or aluminum and glass) .... :whistle: ), etc., etc.

They stole Surface (besides English) from themselves :w00t: creating more confusion than anything:

http://www.forensicfocus.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=9981/start=7/

This is common to each and every company, we have seen car examples earlier, making a fuss about it is futile (like resistance is), mindless marketing jerks will use common words to identify products and awful acronyms (such as MBAM or MDOP or ADK) for the rest., you'll need to learn to live with that.. :(

True, but those are not clear product names like MBAM or BiNG. That is the point, using an existing product name within the trademark evidentiary threshold of using a name from a product in the same or related field. Apples to Apples. Two software names is something entirely different than Windows or Vista. This is why so many people think they could have successfully stayed with Metro, even me, because there was no possible confusion. However, they caved prematurely. The fact that they voluntarily stepped into the Google conflict after caving on Metro says something very clearly here. They are reckless. Anyway, MBAM will cost them dearly if Malwarebytes decides to move forward with it and they'll no doubt get a tidy settlement out of it. Overall, this is much closer to the Budweiser conflict than most examples.

And Bing, to me, still means ;):

Chandler-Bing-friends-16864199-500-299.jpg

jaclaz

That link is dead. Or was that the point? Blank BING :lol:

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That link is dead. Or was that the point? Blank BING :lol:

It works from here :unsure:

hxxp://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/16800000/Chandler-Bing-friends-16864199-500-299.jpg

A glitch in the Matrix Internet? :w00t:

Here is a smaller one:

Chandler-Bing-friends-16864199-500-299-300x179.jpg

jaclaz

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This whole "can boot to the desktop" is really deceiving and potentially useless. This is because there is nothing to do on the desktop except open IE or Library. Might as well keep that Start Screen to show up by default, because without a Start Menu, what's the point?

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This whole "can boot to the desktop" is really deceiving and potentially useless. This is because there is nothing to do on the desktop except open IE or Library. Might as well keep that Start Screen to show up by default, because without a Start Menu, what's the point?

I assume you're referring to RT, right? We can still do useful things on "regular" Windows 8.

And speaking of the Windows 8 desktop -- yesterday, for the first time at my favorite PC retailer, I saw at least one display model showing the Desktop instead of the epileptic attack-inducing Start Screen. Could have been someone checking it out before me, of course, but OTOH it could be that they're learning that the Start Screen isn't a marketing plus...

I haven't asked them because I don't want to get into a discussion of Windows 8, but I've been itching to inquire whether they'd sell me a computer with no OS installed (at an appropriate discount). I'd be surprised if they did, but it would be good to know.

--JorgeA

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Reminder! This whole removing start menu was just a decoy to bring in the Orwellian locked-in walled garden "store" into Windows.

http://www.neowin.net/news/rumor-the-start-button-to-return-in-windows-81

The lock-in is still there but all the sheeps are distracted by the start menu which they did on purpose as a decoy.

Oldest trick in the book. :sneaky:

Bah!

Bah!

Baaah! :D

I'd love to be a fly on the wall listening in on their conferences over this. Your theory is so plausible, and at this point nothing would surprise me.

Although, the return of the Start Button would still be welcome news. So long as they didn't keep moving menus and functions from the Desktop side over to the Metro side (as has been reported for some Control Panel functions) in an effort to make the Desktop irrelevant.

--JorgeA

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So is Windows 8 Microsoft's ‘biggest failure ever’?

Interesting discussion and video. Here's the original article, and a quote from a commenter:

I regretfully bought a Dell laptop with Windows 8 last Christmas. I am a software professional, and I've used many operating systems for over three decades. My opinion is that Windows 8 is the worst operating system of all time. It seems to go out of its way to prevent productivity. The Metro interface is just pathetic. Totally non-intuitive. How this poor of a product got through quality control is beyond me. Personally, I think they should recall Windows 8, or offer free downgrades to Windows 7. MS shot themselves in the foot by making Windows 8 so radically different from past versions.

And a comment that @ciHnoN will relate to:

As to windows 8.. of course its a failure. It was a Beta for the next one, much like Vista was to 7, and ME was to XP. MS needs to stop this beta for sale stuff and get to the real deal.

It was also clearly NOT designed for PC's, it was designed for tablets and other touch screen devices.

The intent is clear that MS wants to diminish the free PC market and lock it down much like how Apple does with their Macintosh series of computers.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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The start button and boot-to-desktop are pretty useless if the start screen stays. That's the biggest clusterf***.

What's great about booting to desktop if the start screen appears anyway if you want to do anything? I have to agree with the metrotards here: Reaching the desktop from the start screen isn't that difficult. The start screen itself is the problem.

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The start button and boot-to-desktop are pretty useless if the start screen stays. That's the biggest clusterf***.

What's great about booting to desktop if the start screen appears anyway if you want to do anything? I have to agree with the metrotards here: Reaching the desktop from the start screen isn't that difficult. The start screen itself is the problem.

Yeah, some of the Start Button replacements simply take you to the Metro Start Screen (or something that looks a lot like it) when you click on them. But the ones that I used in the preview versions of Windows 8 don't take you to the Metro screen, they work pretty much like the "classic" Start Menu. The best ones even let you disable the hot corners so that they don't annoy and distract the user in the course of getting stuff done.

That said, it doesn't seem possible to disable the Metro screen completely and for all purposes; the ability to do that would be the best improvement that Windows 8 could receive.

--JorgeA

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The start button and boot-to-desktop are pretty useless if the start screen stays. That's the biggest clusterf***.

What's great about booting to desktop if the start screen appears anyway if you want to do anything? I have to agree with the metrotards here: Reaching the desktop from the start screen isn't that difficult. The start screen itself is the problem.

Yeah, some of the Start Button replacements simply take you to the Metro Start Screen (or something that looks a lot like it) when you click on them. But the ones that I used in the preview versions of Windows 8 don't take you to the Metro screen, they work pretty much like the "classic" Start Menu. The best ones even let you disable the hot corners so that they don't annoy and distract the user in the course of getting stuff done.

That said, it doesn't seem possible to disable the Metro screen completely and for all purposes; the ability to do that would be the best improvement that Windows 8 could receive.

--JorgeA

Given the crazy-course Microsoft is on, it could be possible that they will bring back desktop-boot and the start button, but indeed "forget" about the start menu (start button without the start menu is like a car without engine).

Of course, they will be totally confused why this thing will be still tanking.

If this happens, recovery of Windows will be even more f***ed-up. After reading forums with MS employees on, I get the feeling that they seem to feel that the main problem people have is just the lack of start button. The start menu doesn't even enter into their equation. I am not entirely sure whether its genuine cluelessness or just playing-dumb. And AERO is not even on the radar.

The metrotards could become even MORE obnoxious ("they have given you what you want, what are you still crying!?"), and this time the tech press could side with MS, using the same obnoxious tenor ("despite adding the start button back, Windows 8 sales are still tanking. It proves that low PC sales have nothing to do with Windows 8 but it's all because of [...])

So just adding the button back could make this whole W8 affair even more nauseous.

Edited by Formfiller
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This whole "can boot to the desktop" is really deceiving and potentially useless. This is because there is nothing to do on the desktop except open IE or Library. Might as well keep that Start Screen to show up by default, because without a Start Menu, what's the point?

I assume you're referring to RT, right? We can still do useful things on "regular" Windows 8.

I don't actively "use" Windows 8, so my experience with it is in a stock form... nothing is installed. So it booting to the desktop seems pointless to me.

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Microsoft's Windows 8 Plan B(lue): Bring back the Start button, boot to desktop ( Mary Jo Foley ZDNet 2013-04-16 )

Windows 8.1 will include boot to desktop option to bypass 'Metro' interface ( Tom Warren The Verge 2013-04-16 )

Microsoft yields: boot to desktop, Start menu options in Windows 8.1? ( TechSpot 2013-04-16 )

Evidence mounts for Windows 8.1 boot to desktop option ( NeoWin 2013-04-16 )

Rumor: The Start Button to return in Windows 8.1 ( NeoWin 2013-04-16 )

Boot to desktop for Windows 8.1 could be for 'Kiosk mode', dashes our hopes a bit ( NeoWin 2013-04-16 )

Will they or won't they? One thing is funny though, just as Formfiller said, they ( the MetroTard commenters ) are currently re-posturing themselves to accepting this with sudden rationalizations of how choice is good. :lol:

Windows 8.1 build 9369 has leaked ( NeoWin 2013-04-16 )

Windows 8.1 build 9369 installation screenshots ( NeoWin 2013-04-16 )

gH5pv88.jpggP0HrIs.jpg

( images left and right from NeoWin )

You know what is the most offensive part of the Windows 8 desktop? The little "e" icon in the place of the Start Menu, a subtle thing that represents their new thinking. Start Me Up replaced by Internet Explorer. The Windows Explorer Icon as the other choice really shows just how shallow their thinking is. MSIE and Explorer, that's our toolbox, yep. Pretty much the classic setup for a n00b. Add in the Aero Glass-less appearance, flat 2D and squared corners, plus those one-color icons in the systray and the whole experience just cries out as a pOS. Pretty much everything visually sucks. And that is just on the desktop. Metro is a whole 'nuther story.

EDIT: typo, updated image URLs

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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