JorgeA

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

6,162 posts in this topic

Sinofsky is back with his fourth blog post, and finally we agree on something! This post addresses the recent dust-up in Twitter and blogs about Sinofsky using an iPhone ...

Learning from Competition ( Sinofsky 2013-01-14 )

Learning from the competition is not just required of all product development folks, but can also be somewhat of a skill worth honing. Let’s look at the ins and outs of using a competitive product.

Why?

Obviously you should use a competitive product. You should know what you’re up against when a consumer (or business) ultimately faces a buying decision. They will weigh a wide array of factors and you should be aware of those not only for the purposes of sales and marketing but when you are designing your products.

This is in sharp contrast to the attitude of Gates mentioned in stories just a few weeks ago ...

Bill Gates still won't let his children use Apple products ( NeoWin 2012-12-28 )

All kinds of "Yay Bill" and other rationalizations. No-one evens considers the possibility of someone in the position of billg, with the limitless means of billg, simply getting one of each and every make and model of device and comparing them objectively. I mean, he might notice something and phone up the team and say "How come we can't do this or that like so and so?". Actually, if you know anything about the early years with billg you would already know that he has done exactly that in the past and it is part of his legend as being plugged-in to all levels. This alleged no-Apple rule of his might be simply to avert criticism of stealing ideas and whatnot, but it certainly shows a shift to insular and walled-in thinking at the highest levels.

Now we need to wonder if the insular thinking is actually cemented in place at Microsoft due to Gates permanent presence and his disconnect from actual product development, and is being advanced by his handpicked Mini-Me Steve Ballmer. It sure looks like Sinofsky is going to slowly redeem his image through his blog posts even though he carefully avoids direct references to Microsoft ( The Gates story does not appear in the blog ).

Photograph of Gates' "Mini-Me" Steve Ballmer ...

63869_500_Warren.gif.jpg

EDIT: typos

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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Photograph of Gates' "Mini-Me" Steve Ballmer ...

:D:lol::thumbup:lol:

--JorgeA

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Occam's razor. :w00t:

A simpler exlanation is that his dog ate all the other pieces of his tangram and he was left with just the "slate" (or "romboid").

BTW his dog also seemingly ate in the past 16,777,215 of his colours, leaving him with ONLY a light blue/turquoise. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turquoise_(color)

Your discussion over this with @Charlotte made me think of something. Consider how everything Microsoft is suddenly becoming simpler in design -- now down to the point where the logo is a single color and barely any interior lines. Now consider how Microsoft is pushing this concept of the "consumption" device. I wonder whether this is intended to reflect (or promote :ph34r: ) the growing atrophy of users' brain cells as they incessantly surf the Web and mindlessly go clicking from video to video, to where their minds can't even process multicolor logos or -- gasp! -- windows with rounded corners and 3D buttons.

I could imagine a biting TV take on Microsoft's Surface (and the Apple iPad) featuring cavemen (real primitive ones, not the sophisticated GEICO cavemen) really getting into a tablet with their grubby fat fingers...

--JorgeA

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Net Applications: Windows 8 keeps gaining market share ( NeoWin 2013-01-21 )

For the month of December, Net Applications said that its data showed that Windows 8 was running on 1.64 percent of all PCs worldwide, two months after its launch. Now, new data taken just over two weeks later shows a big growth in the use of Windows 8.

The new data, taken from the week of January 16, shows Windows 8 running on 2.25 percent on all PCs, with two offshoots (Windows 8 Touch and Windows 8 RT Touch) adding another 0.08 percent to that marketshare. Windows 8 is now closing in on Mac OS 10.8, which currently has a 2.43 percent share of the PC OS market.

Yes, he went there ... 1.64 percent ... big growth ... 2.25 percent.

Back in Post #1358 we found this ...

Surface makes a small blip on the web traffic radar ( NeoWin 2012-12-11 )

In a nut shell, the Surface took .13% of the web traffic generated from the ad impressions across the Chitika network while Android took .91% of the market; Chitika states the sample base was in the tens of millions.

That is a decimal point there in that 0.13 % or less than one seventh of one percent. Yeah, it doesn't mean much now. And there is no doubt that Windows 8 ( of which Surface represents only a subset ) itself will chart eventually. I mean how can it not? The user market is much larger now than six years ago, and they are literally forcing it into the world through the OEM channels ( again ). Plus, now we have billions of phones also. The real question is whether it will get as high as Vista did ( I believe it was 20% at it's peak ) before the bottom drops out once and for all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS_market_share ... 2012-12-12 ... Windows 7 = 41.35% ... Windows XP = 21.29% ... Windows 8 = 0.32%

Unfortunately at that same Wiki page, they have changed things around, and I don't see an overall statistic like they had back on 2012-12-12. :} ( way to go guys ). No way for a comparison that I can see yet. This is what they currently show on the top two main charts ...

--------------- Net Applications --- Wikimedia

---------------- December 2012 ---- October 2012

Windows 7 .......... 45.11 ........... 41.35

Windows XP ......... 39.08 ........... 21.29

Mac OSX ............. 7.05 ............ 8.54

Windows Vista ....... 5.67 ............ 6.28

Windows 8 ........... 1.72 ............ 0.32

Linux ............... 1.19 ............ 1.64

Other ............... 0.18 ............ 5.84

iOS ................................... 9.46

Android ............................... 4.80

Windows RT + WP ....................... 0.48

If the page format remains the same after the next update then we can use this snapshot for a direct comparison.

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Net Applications: Windows 8 keeps gaining market share ( NeoWin 2013-01-21 )

For the month of December, Net Applications said that its data showed that Windows 8 was running on 1.64 percent of all PCs worldwide, two months after its launch. Now, new data taken just over two weeks later shows a big growth in the use of Windows 8.

The new data, taken from the week of January 16, shows Windows 8 running on 2.25 percent on all PCs, with two offshoots (Windows 8 Touch and Windows 8 RT Touch) adding another 0.08 percent to that marketshare. Windows 8 is now closing in on Mac OS 10.8, which currently has a 2.43 percent share of the PC OS market.

Yes, he went there ... 1.64 percent ... big growth ... 2.25 percent.

Many people have turned on their new W8 PCs/laptops that they got for Christmas only in January. Also, gifting money and shopping coupons became quite popular as well. Some have bought computers for that money after Christmas. After January, this post-Christmas effect will wear off, thus W8 will grow far slower in the next months. Since MS wants to raise W8 upgrade prices, upgrades to W8 will decrease very heavily as well.

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Oh, I can't believe that these idiots at Neowin are actually excited about W8 surpassing Linux.. How deluded are those dumbf..?

Desktop Linux lingers at around 1% since over twenty years. An MS OS surpassing that is nothing exciting. They could re-relase Windows 98 and it would most likely surpass Linux marketshare as well.

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neowin = Fan boy central. Ignore the trolls there.

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neowin = Fan boy central. Ignore the trolls there.

Fan boy, I give you that but not trolls. Look up the definition of troll and you will find a link to this topic (not really, trying to make a point)

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Seeing StartIsBack and start menu clones out there, it made me wanting to install Windows 8 Pro. But afterwards, an idea came into my mind already set to wipe out the Windows 7 Ultimate installation and to install Win8 Pro. Why do I need Win8 Pro? Why should I switch? Well, maybe I'm too relaxed with Win7 and I need some agitation with Win8. So, in the end I decided to stay with Windows 7. For me, Windows 8 doesn't offer anything much - maybe except the agitation and the stress of customization of Windows 8 to look & feel like Windows 7.

Office 2013? Same argument as in regard of Win8. There's nothing new that I can't do with Office 2010.

I have and "old" desktop equipped with an AMD Barton 2500+ (running stable for years at 2500 MHz) that's running Win2003 Server and Office 2007 and I don't see any reason to "upgrade".

Once, I sought in an OS beauty and bling-bling - but today I want speed & beauty and Windows 7 delivers that very well, when Windows 8 doesn't at all, so I won't change just for the sake of changing.

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Excellent thread. Took me a while to read it, well I managed to read half of it or something. I registered here just to be able to reply to this thread. This place seems like a nice place, a lot of non-zombie people here it seems, which is a breath of fresh air for once. A lot of crap out there but in this place I felt there are not angry rants but rather good arguments against Windows 8 so I thought, what the heck, I'll join!

This reply is specifically made towards "CharlotteTheHarlot" with the odd and fun nickname, however. You are spot on and thank you for writing all those wonderful posts. I enjoyed reading them.

Sorry for posting a little off topic reply, I'll post again with my thoughts on this... thing... Windows 8. :angel

Cheers!

EDIT: Fixed spelling.

Edited by NonHic
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There must be a hundred stories out there about the imminent Windows 8 price increase, and with them are literally thousands of comments, almost all are ripping Microsoft a new one for yet another huge mistake ( hehe, well all except Thurrott: There's been a lot of whining this week. It's all unnecessary :lol: ). Here is the official Microsoft PR hack webpage ...

Update on Windows 8 Pricing ( Brandon LeBlanc 2013-01-18 )

Normally I would quote him, but you really have to read the IBM Microsoft marketspeak for yourself and marvel at the enormous mess they have made of this. What is interesting is that the majority of the comments at this Microsoft blog are authored by Windows 8 supporters and Microsoft sycophants and I can only find a single one that blindly supports this complicated, confusing and irrational mess as a good thing. The bulk of the commenters are incredulous at the pricing plan and also the ridiculously complex SKU editions.

As we have come to expect from this lumbering behemoth IBM Microsoft, Brandon chooses to respond to one single comment, where the person expressed his frustration like this: "I also love WIndows 8, so it saddens me that what's going to kill it is the horrible marketing and messaging around it. First of all, nobody's going to pay $200 for it. Secondly, the entire article above is INCREDIBLY CONFUSING. Why?!? Nowhere on this page or any of the linked articles can I find a description of the differences between "Windows 8" and "Windows 8 Pro" or the others. What are you doing? If you wanted to take a great product and ensure its demise, I can't think of a better way.". And what does he do, he sends the poor confused customer to an even less-helpful marketdroid page which starts off like this ...

Which Windows is right for you?

Both Windows 8 and Windows RT offer a beautiful, fast, and fluid interface that you can personalize with the people, apps, and sites you care about most. They’re designed for touch, mouse, and keyboard.

There really seems to be no hope for this company. :no: Great comment that cuts right to the chase: "For the price of the upgrade you can get an Android tablet... oh, wait, that's what people are doing!" :yes:

Over at ComputerWorld an example of the kind of press they are receiving ...

Microsoft to raise Windows 8 upgrade prices by 5X ( ComputerWorld 2013-01-19 )

I believe this one particular commenter has nailed the situation exactly right ... "Windows is now a declining market. It makes economic sense to increase the rents as lowering price will no longer get market share. I don't see the value in the Windows product and I look to avoid their lock in.". This may be their actual thinking now, convinced by bean-counters that they failed at adoption with a severely reduced price and now they must stop the bleeding.

Other poster have witty comments, some of my favorites ...

  • "Wow, what a great price that is. Must wipe PCLinuxOS off my harddrive straight away and buy a copy....."
  • "Now we are saving even more by not buying it."
  • "Like shooting a torpedo at the Titanic... "
  • "I'll bet MS brings back the start button on February 1st."

:lol:

EDIT: typo

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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Here are some of my first thoughts on Windows 8 (and Microsoft). Will probably add more later.

I have used Microsoft software as long as I can remember from my first "PC" (IBM SX-25). One thing I always did was to trust them. Sure, everyone said this or that about them but inside Windows, you were kind'a free to roam. I never felt that Linux is free because due to its complexity, I never felt I could actually do what I wanted to do. It got in my way all the time, fix this or that, read this, and when asking from the guys who knew, I got "RTFM"! So it felt like a prison because I was always at the mercy of those "linux techies". Microsoft Windows due to its simplicity empowered me.

Microsoft Windows made it much easier so I could concentrate on what I actually needed to do on my PC. Note that I say my PC. With Windows 8, I no longer feel that this is "my" PC anymore. The same disgusting uneasy feeling I get from Android and OSX, I now get from Windows 8... I'll tell you why.

When buying an Android device or OSX, it's locked up. It is not your PC if you don't have administrator account on it. It is not your device if you cannot uninstall 3rd party crap from it. It is not your device when by default, there are a ton of applications on it which are there just to mine your data. Take your GPS position, contacts, and basically, it's their device you borrow. You can't even install a new version of the OS on these Android devices. Complete 100% locked. You rent it. This is not a buy, it's a rent. (rooting doesn't count)

Windows 8... they put this creepy thing called "Windows Marketplace", which is an absolute totally Orwellian word. They call something which is locked up (walled garden), which takes 30% of your profit and you must get approval from them a "Marketplace". No sir, that is no marketplace. War is not peace!

Windows 8... suddenly, they call the open desktop where you can do whatever you want with your PC "legacy". They want all programmers to write in WinRT and lock themselves inside this Orwellian "Marketplace".

So not only they want to take away 30% of your profit, they also want to dictate what you will be running on your PC. It must be "approved" by them. They have completely lost it. Who do they think they are at Microsoft?

Do you actually think that I would start making applications for your OS? Do you actually believe that I will be asking permission from idiots at Microsoft in order to be able to distribute MY application?

What did you say? Oh, I can't even make a WinRT application and give it to my dad or a friend? Oh, you need to approve this too? Well, up yours! You can take WinRT and put it where the sun don't shine!

Basically, what they have done is to make me... force me to not ever write one more single piece of software for Windows. I will not do it! I rather change my profession, do something else with my life than systemsdevelopment, than allow these b*st*rds at Microsoft to dictate what I can do with MY PC.

If a day comes where there no longer would be an option, you know what I would do? Trash the PC! Just like I did with my TV 14 years ago. I do not miss TV one bit and I will not miss PC one bit if it becomes a TV. What they are trying to do is to make PC like TV, very slowly turning up the heat on people without the frog jumping out of the pan. All this lock-in and cloud talk is just baby steps toward them becoming like car giants. Windows 8 is the first step toward this.

Now, if you are a real cynic, you could even take this one step further, this whole chaning the gUI of Windows 8, removing start menu and all is just a distraction! The real issue is not the start menu. The real major issue is the lock-in!!! The "must be approved" or we will not allow you to run it on your PC. They knew people would be super angry when they changed the start menu but that is exactly what they wanted. To distract you from the real issue, the lock-in!

I will post more later. My blood boils when I think of Windows 8 and I don't want to make this post into an angry rant.

Thanks for listening.

EDIT: Spellings.

Edited by NonHic
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Here are some of my first thoughts on Windows 8 (and Microsoft). Will probably add more later.

Well said. :thumbup

One thing they can't do is easily terminate the existing x86 universe. But they will try with many cold calculating steps. They will try to ease the millions of old shareware and freeware websites out of the picture. There will be pushback because to take away my personal computer desktop they will have to pry it from my cold dead fingers.

They will certainly continue utilizing their nearly captive OEM back channels to win by attrition. People need to rise up, directly contact OEMS and demand they make motherboard and device drivers for operating systems other than just Windows 8, including Windows 7 and XP, Linux and others. Throw the word "collusion" around, because it is very accurate. Warn OEMs not to collude with Microsoft because it is a crime. USA residents should contact their two Senators and House member, as well as their State reps and Attorney Generals and demand Microsoft be broken up because their monopoly now dwarfs that of Rockefeller and all of the past monopolists. They are trying to lock down the system now, and there is a short window of opportunity to halt them.

Two years ago this sounded like a conspiracy theory. A year ago they dropped the Start Menu and proceeded forward anyway despite near unanimous criticism. They have not shown a single sign of accommodation and no evidence exists to contradict this theory that they are morphing into a cheap sleazy knockoff of Apple. I stayed out of the Apple universe because I cannot stand the patronizing, heavy-handed control freaks that they are. I won't let it happen to Microsoft without putting up one hell of a fight.

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...There will be pushback because to take away my personal computer desktop they will have to pry it from my cold dead fingers.

:wub:

...although, the issue is that all those senators and OEMs do work together. They are all in each others' pockets. I work as a systemsdeveloper at a very large international corporation which sells hardware. I am inside a lot of meetings and I have full access to our systems. I see it all, everyday, how manufacturers con people consumers. It is all the good'ol boys' club, me and you (we the people) are not invited.

The thing is, it does not matter anymore to me personally if they fix this with a 8.1 update or learn a lesson by the time Windows 9 is out. The trust I had on Microsoft is gone. I will no longer produce software for Windows. That is the first step I have taken toward this. I will not develop any more software.

I will create websites only, using W3C standard.

Will also try to minimize my exposure and dependency not only to Windows but the OS itself as a whole. Ubuntu Linux is also doing very odd things which I won't bring here because it's off topic.

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On anothe note, the "charms bar" which is faaar from anything charming is also very creepy. Try closing a maximized window without making it pop 7 out of 10 times... and not to mention the forced icon "share" in it. Desktop/PC is a PERSONAL PRIVATE PC. I do not want a share function built-in to the OS! Where did my privacy go? The kids have been so conditioned, the xbox/facebook generation that all hope seems lost right now.

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They even hide control panel. Do you know how hard it is to find that thing? Bring up explorer from desktop, click on the desktop icon and THEN one will see it! WHAT THE HELL? It is clear that they are doing away with all sorts of customization and control for the end user. They are taking over. Lock, stock and barrel.

I have found a way to kill off the "start screen" once in desktop without using an extra 3rd party application always running, which is nice. I do not dare to mention it here, however. I'm afraid they change it in an update! *lol*

And why did the aero go away? It is amazing how many zombies for example in neowin, not only actually like this but also defend the notion that Microsoft did NOT give us who like aero an option to turn it on!!! Dictatorial zombies are the worst zombies. Clearly the gUI is still hardware accelerated and in the previews aero was there. Not offering an option is another insult to their userbase. ...but I'm sure it is all a distraction. They needed something very big, a huge distraction so people forget about the lock-in which is coming into the playfield.

Sadly, they seem to have succeeded so far. I wish people did not use Windows 8 instead of installing it and buy StartIsBack or Start8. All of those who did it clearly dislike the "start screen" but yet, they use Windows 8. If all of them, millions of people had just say "No", Microsoft would have changed this in a second!!!

But for me personally, me, who always defended Microsoft, who always trusted them... the line in sand is drawn now. Microsoft, remember Job 38:11 ..."This far you may come and no farther."

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