JorgeA

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

6,162 posts in this topic

...stuff like this, removing applications from their stores will be common in the future of Windows 8. Just wait and see. If we let them win, they will dictate what you will be or not able to install on your device!

This means that MS has backed down from their lofty expectations delivered at Build concerning how apps would be handled. There was supposed to be some testing and approval process for apps submitted to the store. The man hours required for such a thing would have been immense. Its not surprising they opted for more of a break/fix approach to handling apps since their original goal (especially if Windows 8 had been a booming success) was probably not something even Microsoft would be able to pull off.

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Everywhere I go except MSFN (Eightforums, Neowin, Twitter), I see extremely dumb people praising the dumb people at Microsoft for creating Windows 8. Did Apple put some spell on the whole world to go dumb? How did people use Windows all these years from Windows 1.0 to Windows 7? They were finding it difficult to operate all this time?

Edited by xpclient
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How did people use Windows all these years from Windows 1.0 to Windows 7?

INvolution of the species? :unsure::ph34r:

How did people used a PC at all before WIndows (and without a GUI/pointing device)? :unsure:

The "smartifying" (or supposedly so) of the OS/UI is an evident trend.

Point is why exactly it should IMPLY the dumbifying of the user powers or downright of the users themselves or FORCE them to do something ONLY in a given fixed way (BTW, in the case of NCI, the most stupid/unconvenient among all possible ones).

For NO apparent reason :angel :

demotivational-posters-when-i-was-young.jpg

jaclaz

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Will also try to minimize my exposure and dependency not only to Windows but the OS itself as a whole. Ubuntu Linux is also doing very odd things which I won't bring here because it's off topic.

ciHnoN,

Welcome to the thread! If you have seen my posts, you'll know that I completely agree with what you're saying.

I would definitely like to hear your thoughts on the excerpt I quoted at the top of this post. As the OP :) , I'd say that a brief description of what's going on with Unity would be OK here, if it helps to guide readers on the choice of an alternative OS down the road. People (like myself ;) ) who are considering making a switch because of what Microsoft is doing with to Windows would also find it relevant to know if the Canonical folks are walking down the same route as Microsoft.

So, please do let us know what's going on with Ubuntu!

--JorgeA

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Everywhere I go except MSFN (Eightforums, Neowin, Twitter), I see extremely dumb people praising the dumb people at Microsoft for creating Windows 8. Did Apple put some spell on the whole world to go dumb? How did people use Windows all these years from Windows 1.0 to Windows 7? They were finding it difficult to operate all this time?

How is Windows 8 easier though? You have to remember a lot of additonal stuff, because many things are hidden and you need to play hide & seek. Even the metrotards advice learning keyboard shortcuts. Serious question: Unless you only use metro craps, how the heck is W8 easier?

Also, what counts is not Neowin. Stats wise, W8 is doing worse than Vista.

Edited by Formfiller
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How is Windows 8 easier though? You have to remember a lot of additonal stuff, because many things are hidden and you need to play hide & seek. Even the metrotards advice learning keyboard shortcuts. Serious question: Unless you only use metro craps, how the heck is W8 easier?

I guess you are missing a point. :unsure:

IF you have to actually do something (like "work") you need to play hide & seek to find something useful for that.

IF you just want to:

  1. know what time is it
  2. know how is the weather
  3. know how bad the Dow Jones is going (only to look informed when talking with your father of the money HE made through working and currently is losing in the stock exchenge)
  4. follow witty twits
  5. write witty comments on your friends pages on facebook
  6. read the the witty comments your friends wrote on your facebook page
  7. watch some lousy low resolution videos on youtube
  8. get senseless mails from your friends and reply senseless to them (no less than 10 per hour)
  9. look on the internet for some (you choose: porn/music/movies)
  10. play online with your friends (or with your foes, it's all the same as long as it is "social" and "fun")
  11. call or video call every other friend through Skype or similar

Everything is ready before you, you don't have to learn anything, nor to look for anything more (there is simply no need for it).

About items #1, #2, there are known alternatives, see:

jaclaz

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IF you just want to:

  1. know what time is it
  2. know how is the weather
  3. know how bad the Dow Jones is going (only to look informed when talking with your father of the money HE made through working and currently is losing in the stock exchenge)
  4. follow witty twits
  5. write witty comments on your friends pages on facebook
  6. read the the witty comments your friends wrote on your facebook page
  7. watch some lousy low resolution videos on youtube
  8. get senseless mails from your friends and reply senseless to them (no less than 10 per hour)
  9. look on the internet for some (you choose: porn/music/movies)
  10. play online with your friends (or with your foes, it's all the same as long as it is "social" and "fun")
  11. call or video call every other friend through Skype or similar

Knowing time got actually more complicated.

About your other stuff.. wouldn't bookmarks in a browser (or pinning/linking them on the taskbar/desktop) do exactly that? And far easier? It's easier to switch between sites in the desktop browser than in the metro browser. Browsing is a lot more complicated in metro in my opinion. Not to mention the Flash/Silverlight issues there.

Anyway, Microsoft not only p***es off Windows users, but Office users as well! (No.1 cash cow)

Just look at the dissatisfaction, that the new Office UI generates:

Office hate 1

Office hate 2

These design hipsters that Ballmer let run wild without supervision are going to kill the company completely. But I must admit, if MS crashes and burns I wouldn't be a too sad now. And I liked them before W8.

I HAVE NEVER SEEN A COMPANY ON SUCH A SUICIDE COURSE.

Some posts from the Office front:

---

As recent user of MS Officer 2013 I was amazed at how poor the UI color scheme was. When I first installed the 2013 suite I thought something had been corrupted or perhaps I was running in safe mode. I attempted to use the various applications but found Outlook to be totally unusable for any period of time.

We develop software products ourselves and the Office 2013 GUI would never have made it through Alpha, it is totally unfit for purpose.

Hey developers, my eyes can't take it any-more. Just installed MS office 2013 and after reading some word documents,

my eyes are burning like hell. (and yes my i had set my monitor brightness to loo)

This interface has "too" high contrast colours, is there anyway to change the colour scheme? or any dark interface like Photoshop cs6..?

Please...PLEASE...someone tell me there is a way to change the Office 2013 RTM themes beyond just a grey-scale look. All I can see is "White", "Light Grey", and "Dark Grey"...which is equivalent to "Stormtrooper White", Stormtrooper Light Grey", and "Stormtrooper Dark Grey". Did the Adams Family design the Office 2013...because everything looks like a flat-styled death theme compared to Office 2010. I'm quite literally getting eye-strain from it. I can see a headache coming on if I try to use this all day.

Is there some option I'm missing, some third-party add-on, a registry tweak...or ANYTHING that will add a blue, tan, or any other splash of real color to Office 2013? Also, is there some way to add some depth to the slider bars? Everything looks so flat....and dead. I'm working with these tools all day long...and it's like I'm living in a Twilight Zone episode. I feel depressed after using Office 2013.

I have to agree. Been programming and selling computer systems since 1978. I remember my first shipment of IBM PCs. I was selling CP/M machines before then. In any case I also thought, "This is Multimate!" or Volkswriter. This is a throwback to green/amber/paper white monitors. This is horrible. I never thought a visual interface could ruin a product, but this does. It is just unusable. We will be uninstalling it on our test machines and recommending our company does not use it for the time being. Windows 8 is bad enough, but this is too much to take.
Why is the text on the right click menu GREY? I can hardly see it. It should be BLACK. Also I associate grey with being an option that is unavailable so it's just plain wrong as it stands. The lighter shade of grey is almost invisible.

LCD monitors are notoriously bad at displaying subtle shades of grey to the point where this the latest greatest version of office is pretty much useless. JUST WHY? It's not cool to make software this hard to use on a wide range of TN screen which are common place.

Skins limited to 3 shades of grey with no colour customisation. This can't be right in 2013? There is no such thing as MODERN. Repeat NO SUCH THING AS MODERN. We have been modern since art deco in the 1930's and the person who thinks they are doing something trendy new design is just plain wrong. Excel is about productivity and getting work done efficiently and not some stupid fashion statement. Quit being tards and make some high contrast skin that is easier to use.

1) People don't all share the same perfect eyesight.

2) TN monitors absolutely cannot display subtle differences in pale shades of grey.

Spreadsheets are one of the most dull and boring things ever devised yet you managed to make it even more unappealing. That's just funny and given the options available I think google have a chance to catch 90% of office software users.

Seriously - this the latest office + windows 8 has me looking seriously at alternatives.

Edited by Formfiller
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How is Windows 8 easier though? You have to remember a lot of additonal stuff, because many things are hidden and you need to play hide & seek. Even the metrotards advice learning keyboard shortcuts. Serious question: Unless you only use metro craps, how the heck is W8 easier?

Great point that hasn't been paid nearly enough attention to. The metrotards will tell you to "just hit CTRL-ALT-DELETE" or the Windows key or some other key combination to do what you could easily do before with a couple of clicks. But this misses the point of the mouse interface: in all versions of Windows prior to Metro, I don't have to remember all sorts of disparate key combinations anymore, I can simply point and click. I don't have to take up brain space trying to remember arcane commands -- I can simply do what I need to do, and go on to the next thing. This immediacy of the command interface (there may be a better term for the idea I'm trying to express) enabled users to do increasingly complex and sophisticated things with their computers, because they could focus on the task itself instead of the command sequence. That was the genius of Windows, which now they are trying so hard to destroy.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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http://www.neowin.ne...-to-pornography ...stuff like this, removing applications from their stores will be common in the future of Windows 8. Just wait and see. If we let them win, they will dictate what you will be or not able to install on your device!

Oh, I love the pseudo-critical tone of that article! The same trolls who wish a walled-garden for Windows act suddenly concerned. Hypocritical bunch!

That's the difference between owning your own home (hard disk) and renting somebody else's (the Cloud) -- in the latter case, somebody else is in control of the resource, and you are not, except in some indirect or minuscule way.

These fans of Win8 and "devices" boasting tiny flash drives are fast marching into eSerfdomTM.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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@Formfiller, it's not easier. It's simpler. :w00t: LOL, no it's a trainwreck. And I can assure you Windows 9 is going to be worse.

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Will also try to minimize my exposure and dependency not only to Windows but the OS itself as a whole. Ubuntu Linux is also doing very odd things which I won't bring here because it's off topic.

ciHnoN,

Welcome to the thread! If you have seen my posts, you'll know that I completely agree with what you're saying.

I would definitely like to hear your thoughts on the excerpt I quoted at the top of this post. As the OP :) , I'd say that a brief description of what's going on with Unity would be OK here, if it helps to guide readers on the choice of an alternative OS down the road. People (like myself ;) ) who are considering making a switch because of what Microsoft is doing with to Windows would also find it relevant to know if the Canonical folks are walking down the same route as Microsoft.

So, please do let us know what's going on with Ubuntu!

--JorgeA

Thanks! :) I will keep it very brief to not go off topic on the thread but here are two samples from Ubuntu and one from OSX:

(btw. Ubuntu theme reminds me of when I eat red beets and go to WC. Brown with a purply hue? eeuw)

Detroit_Dark_Red_Beet_Seeds.jpg

1. http://betanews.com/...or-recommended/ ...I dislike this hippie guy Stallman, I do not agree on his views... but... on this specific matter: "...universal search feature built into Ubuntu 12.10's Unity Dash, sends off details of users' search requests to Canonical's servers.", in short, when you use the search built-in into the operating system itself, it collects and gathers information and sends them to their servers. Don't you get a warm and fuzzy feeling on this? haha... (Windows 8 "charms" has also a built-in share button which although I am not sure how it works, I do NOT want it and it CANNOT be removed!)

2. Ubuntu Unity: http://royal.pingdom...rface-to-blame/ ...read up on it, it is also dumbing down the user space.

3. OSX: http://www.macgasm.n...your-downloads/ ..."Your Mac Keeps A Log Of All Your Downloads" ...everything you ever downloaded, regardless of from which application is logged!

Now back on topic about Windows 8... as you said, so true... Windows 8 actually forces me go back to DOS days, to remember all sorts of weird commands and shortcuts... which ís messed up! Many many many things are now completely invisible, no visual clues AT ALL. They also seem to have a love for hiding scrollbars, they show up 1-2 seconds and poof they are gone!!! I don't know where I am by just looking, I have to actually scroll to find my position.

The shutdown procedure in Windows 8... wow, just wow... first you need to bring the start screen, then you need to hit that one pixel up right of screen, bring the charms bar, then click on Power button... and THEN a menu where you can shut this thing down! LOL! Meanwhile, if you press your name in start screen, you only get lock and log out!!! hahhaha... did Microsoft get a cut from electricity companies to hide the shutdown button? (I never turn off my PC because it's a server but nevertheless!)

A specific thing I absolutely HATE about Android is that things scroll into view and hide away from all over the place. Windows 8 is exactly like that. You accidentally move your mouse in a corner, things pop out... some list of weird "apps" (I hate that word) which I do not want to see... some charms bar (eeeuw) with a big fat SHARE button... GIVE US YOUR DATA... ALL YOUR DATA ARE BELONG TO US... LOL.. it's a mess. Absolute mess.Oh, and let's not forget about "'Apps' aren't supposed to be closed." debacle. They want these "apps" to keep running in the background, doing who knows what and hogging resources. It is kind'a like IE-toolbars back i XP days all over again.

I would love to see some stats from Stardock, how much sales they made post Windows 7 and post Windows 8. That should say a lot.

Windows 8 is a defective product made to force users into specific habbits of using THEIR device, specific ways which Microsoft dictates.

I have been hanging around on one of Microsoft's forums Channel9... and I tell you, those devs at MS... many of them are absolutely clueless... and with a clueless CEO on top who surrounds himself with Yes-men... it is as if, they want to fail. Maybe Ballmer is shorting the Microsoft stock? Who knows! *lol*

EDIT: Minor fixes (forum editor is buggy in Opera), added a section about closing apps.

Edited by ciHnoN
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Microsoft blasts PC makers: It's YOUR fault Windows 8 crash landed

"Microsoft blames PC makers for underwhelming Windows 8 sales over Christmas, The Register has learned. The software giant accused manufacturers of not building enough attractive Win 8-powered touchscreen tablets."

hahahhahaha

hahahhahahahahaha

hahahahahahhahahahahahahha

hahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahaahaha...

You know what Windows 8 feels? Like you have a nice big party, everyone all excited to taste this nice punch bowl... there comes floating a turd inside it.

punchbowl.jpg

Wibble

Microsoft's conceited arrogance...

Microsoft seem to become more arrogant as time passes. When Microsoft produced Windows XP in 2001, they shipped it with two interfaces; Fisher-Price and Windows 2000. Looking at it now, there's hardly any difference, but obviously enough to concern Microsoft about alienating their user community.

Now wind forwards eleven years... Microsoft produce a radically different UI that will take most people a *lot* of getting used to -- and that's ignoring the valid argument that it's an inappropriate 'touch' UI foisted on a Keyboard/Mouse/Window interface.

This time Microsoft are so arrogant that they make not the slightest concession to people used to their "old" way of doing things. They produce a radically new operating system, Windows RT, which requires a leap of faith that you'll be able to get applications, and charge MORE than the market leading iPad.

Microsoft only have themselves to blame for this self-made mess.

It beggars belief that Microsoft can't see what's happening.

Excellent reply from there, I had to repost it.

Edited by ciHnoN
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Microsoft blasts PC makers: It's YOUR fault Windows 8 crash landed

"Microsoft blames PC makers for underwhelming Windows 8 sales over Christmas, The Register has learned. The software giant accused manufacturers of not building enough attractive Win 8-powered touchscreen tablets."

Wow.

Quotes from article:

A separate source at a major Windows 8 PC maker confirmed frustration is simmering inside Microsoft, and the blame is settling on PC makers. He said [Microsoft]

“is pinning the blame on the manufacturers for not having enough touch-based

product”.

...

Exclusive Microsoft blames PC makers for underwhelming Windows 8 sales over Christmas, The Register has learned. The software giant accused manufacturers of not building enough attractive Win 8-powered touchscreen tablets.

But the computer makers are fighting back:

they claimed that if they’d followed Microsoft’s hardware requirements and

ramped up production, they'd have ended up building a lot of high-end expensive

slabs that consumers didn’t understand nor want.

...

Now Microsoft is planning to reboot its launch of Windows 8 next month. On Tuesday

the company gave 9 February as the date for the US and Canada unveiling of the

Intel-powered Surface Pro tablets. But sources tell us Microsoft is actually

preparing for a February “relaunch” of Windows 8.

The Windows Pro Surface was planned to emerge in January, 90 days after Windows 8 and ARM-powered Windows RT Surface devices went on sale. That has clearly slipped.

Our well-placed source said that bad sales combined with PC makers “ignoring”

Microsoft's advice has left Redmond executives fuming.

“Microsoft is very frustrated with major OEMs who didn't build nearly enough touch systems and are now struggling to find parts and ramp up. Microsoft says they provided very specific guidance on what to build,” our insider said.

The European launch of Windows 8 lacked the punch and focus expected by PC makers,

as Microsoft focussed much of its efforts on the US and Surface.

“Microsoft is not blaming itself for not selling enough Surface, it’s blaming OEMs for not having enough touch-based product,” our supply chain source said.

What what? Read this out loud: Microsoft is not blaming itself for not selling enough Surface, it’s blaming OEMs for not having enough touch-based product [!]

They are in a COMPLETE DENIAL. Boy, they have really thick skull with this sub par product. It's like they are in collective trance.

So, W8 relaunch in February.. The most dormant time frame of the year for commerce.. This will be surely a hit!

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What what? Read this out loud: Microsoft is not blaming itself for not selling enough Surface, it's blaming OEMs for not having enough touch-based product [!]

They are in a COMPLETE DENIAL. Boy, they have really thick skull with this sub par product. It's like they are in collective trance.

So, W8 relaunch in February.. The most dormant time frame of the year for commerce.. This will be surely a hit!

Speaking of denial... they also defend this piece of CRAP... and actually call it "Design". Can you believe it? They call a WHITE window with A MESS OF TEXT "Design"!!! (Outlook 2013)

On one hand, they got this teletubbies eyesore call Windows 8 and the other hand, they got this... white THING... no borders, hidden scrollbars, mess of text... they call this design!!! *looooooooooooooooooooooooooool*

NOT TO MENTION THE ALL UPPER CASE CAPLOCKED MENU ITEMS, IT IS LIKE OFFICE 2013 IS YELLING AT YOU ALL THE TIME.

Like they just came from 1980 and never used Internet before... hahahahhahahahaha

outlook-2013-inline-reply.png

windows+teletubbies.jpg

Edited by ciHnoN
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By the way, why is the start screen scrolling horizontally and not vertically? haha... another fail. Last time I checked, 99% of mouses had a VERTICAL scroll so now, your mouse wheel is unusable when in start screen, you have to use horizontal scroll bar... even if the wheel works, it would be extremely unnatural to use, although I doubt it does.

The CEO should be fire.

The designers and everyone who gave OK to these products should all be fired.

They should make a recall for both Windows 8 and Office 2013, make a public apology, work on it 3 months and release a fixed better version. New CEO and new designers of course.

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