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JorgeA

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

6,162 posts in this topic

Firefox OS Phones Available for Developers ( Tom's Hardware 2013-04-25 )

Intel Atom-based Android Notebooks to Cost $200 ( Maximum PC 2013-04-26 )

HP's Slate 7 tablet undercuts the competition at $169.99 ( TechSpot 2013-04-26 )

Rugged Samsung Galaxy S4, Galaxy tablets to arrive this summer ( TechSpot 2013-04-26 )

Super budget-minded Samsung Galaxy Core specs, price leaked ( TechSpot 2013-04-26 )

The floodgates are open. Just a sample of the massive influx of devices that will all outsell Microsoft branded or sanctioned items. When Microsoft began this crazy trek to gain mobile marketshare over two years ago, not one of these things were on their radar, including the Galaxy phone or the rise of Android. That shows you how no plan can address the future. Particularly when that Plan-A is to screw over the x86 universe that made Microsoft who they are today, by attacking the very fundamentals of the Operating System called Windows which is the rocket ship they rode to success. How's that Plan-A working out Ballmer? Aren't you glad you p!ssed us all off? :angry:

Analyst: Windows 8.1 won't fix apps that 'suck' ( NeoWin 2013-04-26 )

Already mentioned by MagicAndre1981 a few posts back, this one is now a typical 'tardfest. :lol: As is this one ...

StatCounter: Windows 8 on 4.69 percent of PCs six months after launch ( NeoWin 2013-04-26 )

HeHeHe :lol: It really is stunning cognitive dissonance employed by MetroTards and MicroZealots to not be able to comprehend simple concepts like monopoly. The fools really seem to believe that they are competing with Apple or Android ( you are not! ). By killing your actual competition ( Windows 7 or Vista or XP or ... ) you have cleared the playing field of all competitors. By sneaky backroom deals Microsoft has secured itself a monopoly and then suddenly all the 'tards are cheering because the one and only available operating system is slowly growing.

At least a couple of people aren't delusional: "MS could practically release anything for an OS and it'd be at 5% after 6 months. It helps when the vast, vast majority of computers that ship these days have an OS installed and that OS is Windows.". And another: "Worthless stats. Microsoft could release an operating system that smells like dog sh@t, but guess what? It's the only d@mn operating in the store! No choice, numbers don't mean anything.". Bingo. :thumbup

EDIT: typo

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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...opera...

WOW! I AM SUCH A MORON! Seriously! I run Opera as a USB-installation already... WHY DID I NOT THINK OF JUST COPYING MY FOLDER AND GET A SECOND OPERA? hahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha...... wow... just wow... sometimes, one cannot see clearly! :D

Thanks!

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...opera...

WOW! I AM SUCH A MORON! Seriously! I run Opera as a USB-installation already... WHY DID I NOT THINK OF JUST COPYING MY FOLDER AND GET A SECOND OPERA? hahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha...... wow... just wow... sometimes, one cannot see clearly! :D

Thanks!

Careful though, when I said copy being between computers I was talking about porting and mirroring the same install and all other things are kept the same ( filepaths, etc. ).

To create another parallel Opera now, you can do it in at least two different ways.

- Install another one fresh. All the files within will correctly point to to this new install.

- Copy the existing folder source to a new target but you have to search the entire new folder file contents for path references that point back to the original you copied. Any path references that are absolute ( C:\Winapps\Opera\12\xxx ) will need to be edited. Any with relative paths ( ..\Profile\xxx ) will be fine. This is one reason I use "Winapps" for many years. I can just search for that exact term to locate file paths. If I had allowed the default "Program Files" I would have many extra searches to look for ( LFN, SFN, X86, many user profile locations, etc ). So I decided to "tame" it by removing all the possible Microsoft approved infinite variations and complications. :lol:

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Microsoft 're-imagining' video reveals secrets of rebranding, hints of what's to come ( NeoWin 2013-04-27 )

A lot of hipster blah, blah, blah. Okay, let's get the jokes out of the way first ...

In the video, Shum and Simmons discuss "the re-imagining of Microsoft", including some of the thoughts and concepts that influenced the design process. The challenge of addressing the perceptions of Microsoft's corporate image are discussed extensively; as Simmons says in the opening minutes of the video, "there's nothing 'micro' or 'soft' about Microsoft", as he stands in front of a large slide reading "Big" and "Hard".

:whistle: Oh my.

Even better, here is an actual billboard for Office 365 ...

qj8yFfg.jpg

( Image from NeoWin )

:lol: Pretty accurate, well, with just a little editing I think. I'll have to get back to this soon. :yes:

Anyhoo, the whole point of the article is a look at the hipster re-branding of Microsoft, because Lord knows that was the problem there. Yes, the tired old logos and 3D GUI interfaces and products that appealed to expert users and developers. To get a feel for the nu-Microsoft target clientele just read through the article comments ( and many others at NeoWin and The Verge ) and feel the love that the MetroTards and MicroZealots are pouring onto their master ... "Whoa the boomerang Bing logo is awesome!". :no: No it ain't, it pretty much sucks ... "This video was truly inspiring! I loved it! I especially loved the analogy of Apple being an apple, and Microsoft being a bowl and all it's brands and users being the fruit within. Love it. Also, the teaser with the new Bing and Yammer logos and new Microsoft identity look really exciting. I can't wait!" For real? :blink: ... "Sorry but Bing IS NOW PERFECT guys. Amazing for search. Good Job from Microsoft." Perfect you say? How about a perfect copy of Google! Ok, with wallpaper. Desktop cluttering, non-Minimalist wallpaper. :lol:

Back when they did this logo thing, I came up with a few myself. Amazingly no-one else seems to have thought of it either. My idea is much more appropriate for MicroSloth. Feel free to use them or edit them at will ...

xtzF8hr.png

aO7HvOh.png

Several variations ...

Efk4V77.gif

xtzF8hr.png

IaP5xxC.png

KQVmewJ.jpg

4kjxMmH.jpg

pehMXlb.gif

aO7HvOh.png

EDIT: updated image URLs

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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StatCounter: Windows 8 on 4.69 percent of PCs six months after launch ( NeoWin 2013-04-26 )

HeHeHe :lol: It really is stunning cognitive dissonance employed by MetroTards and MicroZealots to not be able to comprehend simple concepts like monopoly. The fools really seem to believe that they are competing with Apple or Android ( you are not! ). By killing your actual competition ( Windows 7 or Vista or XP or ... ) you have cleared the playing field of all competitors. By sneaky backroom deals Microsoft has secured itself a monopoly and then suddenly all the 'tards are cheering because the one and only available operating system is slowly growing.

At least a couple of people aren't delusional: "MS could practically release anything for an OS and it'd be at 5% after 6 months. It helps when the vast, vast majority of computers that ship these days have an OS installed and that OS is Windows.". And another: "Worthless stats. Microsoft could release an operating system that smells like dog sh@t, but guess what? It's the only d@mn operating in the store! No choice, numbers don't mean anything.". Bingo. :thumbup

You make a great point that needs to be repeated more often. The real competitors to Win8 are XP, Vista, and 7 -- particularly Vista and 7, because we have OS adoption data for them that can be compared to Win8. Measuring the PC market performance of each Windows version to the other Windows versions at analogous points in their life cycles is the closest we can get to an "oranges to oranges" comparison.

Everybody else (Linux, Mac, Solaris, etc.) is basically a footnote.

Now, if we want to count tablet and smartphone OS's in the total, we can do that. In that case, though, if and as the mobile market grows and comes to overwhelm the PC market (as we're told that it will), then Microsoft fans must steel themselves for a loooong (and maybe never-ending) winter of minority status. In terms of market share, they'll be the Linux/Mac/Solaris of mobile -- hardly anything to brag about or look forward to. By cheering on the dubious decisions of Microsoft executives, they will have contributed to the decline of the brand they claim to love so much.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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The real competitors to Win8 are XP, Vista, and 7 -- particularly Vista and 7, because we have OS adoption data for them that can be compared to Win8.

Naah :no: , Vista cannot be part of the "competition", the ONLY thing that can compete with Vista is Windows Me :whistle: (and Windows ME would win anyway :yes: )

:lol:

jaclaz

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"Cluster" ?!

Specifically for Windows 8:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_(epidemiology)

A cluster refers to a grouping of health-related events that are related temporally and in proximity.[1] Typically, when clusters are recognized, they are reported to public health departments in the local area. The 1854 cholera outbreak which occurred in London is a classical example of a cluster. If clusters are of sufficient size and importance, they may be re-evaluated as outbreaks.

I guess that the release of Windows 8 is comparable in size, and seriousness, think at all the people that won't get anymore CTS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpal_tunnel_syndrome

but will start developing the new "GAS" (Gorilla Arm Syndrome) :ph34r: :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchscreen#.22Gorilla_arm.22

jaclaz

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Microsoft tries a new Windows 8 damage control message

This extremely interesting article touches on several issues that we've been covering in this thread. Instead of picking highlights as usual, I'll ask everybody to read it and hope that you'll all come back with your own favorite quotes. If nobody does that, then I'll inflict my own selections on you... ;)

--JorgeA

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"Cluster" ?!

Specifically for Windows 8:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_(epidemiology)

A cluster refers to a grouping of health-related events that are related temporally and in proximity.[1] Typically, when clusters are recognized, they are reported to public health departments in the local area. The 1854 cholera outbreak which occurred in London is a classical example of a cluster. If clusters are of sufficient size and importance, they may be re-evaluated as outbreaks.

I guess that the release of Windows 8 is comparable in size, and seriousness, think at all the people that won't get anymore CTS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpal_tunnel_syndrome

but will start developing the new "GAS" (Gorilla Arm Syndrome) :ph34r: :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchscreen#.22Gorilla_arm.22

In this case, Windows 8 could be considered the vector for the new epidemic of GAS... :lol:

--JorgeA

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Cluster ... how to explain ...

The other half of the word would need to be in place I guess. Etymology is military slang. Maybe it's just an American thing?

Here's a safe hint ... Nugent has a song called

:o Okay, well there just might be bad language at the link :whistle:

So anyway, now you can see how that Office 365 billboard is just asking for it, eh? :lol: Hopefully those Microsoft sanctioned gang-banger graffiti artists don't get a hold of it. It looks like there are a lot of empty bricks just below that pastel pink (!) billboard. :yes:

I7l2Roj.jpg

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Ohhh. You mean the other half of the work starts with "f" and ends with "uck". Like firetruck, but not. :)

Yes, it seems that MS is just asking for it with that (very) pink billboard. I guess they don't want anyone to miss the total mess of things that they are making lately.

Cheers and Regards

Edited by bphlpt
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Microsoft tries a new Windows 8 damage control message

This extremely interesting article touches on several issues that we've been covering in this thread. Instead of picking highlights as usual, I'll ask everybody to read it and hope that you'll all come back with your own favorite quotes. If nobody does that, then I'll inflict my own selections on you... ;)

Well not surprisingly, I like it. :yes:

Favorite quote was when he was talking about Ultrabooks and the new "contortionist" form factors: "Both are too expensive, bring the user nothing they want, and still fail at the basic things consumers actually need. In other words they suck more than PCs of old, but you pay a huge premium for it.". Early in this thread I said something like "Great, we'll have $1000 netbooks ..." and repeatedly spoke of spiking prices with no gain. So I like his article because there is a lot of truth in there, and as you alluded to, lots that we have discussed here. :thumbup

When he is talking about the meme and the shills and the big lie making the rounds as fact, he could almost be critiquing the majority of commenters at NeoWin and The Verge, two outlets rife with parrots.

There is so little honesty in industry anymore. That blatant "dishonesty" is coupled with the even more common "detachment" where they just ignore all comments and queries. Ironically it seems to be the root supplier companies that are the worst offenders, rather than the 2nd-tier OEMs. For example, I would expect no answer to any legitimate question from Intel or Microsoft or Apple or nVidia or AMD, etc. But I would not be surprised for HP or Dell or anyone else to at least humor us with some actual information. Needless to say the Tech press is not there to save the day and demand that concise and exact answer we desire. For example, when Intel inexplicably stopped soldering the IHS ( heat spreader ) to the Ivy Bridge processors ( especially the unlocked 'K' models that will be overclocked ) and began just using thermal paste resulting in a smaller heat-performance envelope the blogs ran wild, hardware sites were busy commenting but to my knowledge no simple answers from Intel and we are all still wondering what the plan was and is. Apparently we'll only know anything concrete when someone gets the next CPU and tears of the IHS and reports his findings and benchmarks. We are way off the traditional path now. The path that IBM pioneered with their early tendency to document everything and err on the side of information overload.

In my experience, Microsoft began walking this same path around the Vista debacle, specifically on the Vista blog. I posted the links somewhere back in this thread but from memory, it was just about the time that they were called out for the hardware DRM by Peter Gutmann, in effect a rolling over for the Hollywood mafia and the long knives came out for the man. The Vista blog itself touched upon it but the actual dirty work was being done by outside websites ( see Google ). This, IMHO, is when nu-Microsoft was born. This, IMHO, is when astroturfing became all the rage. This, IMHO, is when Microsoft became the Sopranos. And it rapidly accelerated when the Vista sales results became known, the breadth of the fail became clear, and Microsoft and her enabler MicroZealots adopted a siege mentality.

P.S. I wonder if anyone ( Jaclaz perhaps ) knows the answer to this. In Opera, when you try to copy the search URL I used above, Opera insists on giving you a string riddled with non-essential crap like &client=opera and other nonsense. Is there a way to just grab the URL in a neutral format? For example, do a search for "Vista DRM Peter Gutmann" and copy the URL of that search result and see if you also get the compound string with too many extraneous and specific components. Seems like a waste to me, and possibly even something identifiable. The one I posted above is this, which is manually edited down to just the core search terms, 72 characters instead of the default 492. :blink: WTF are Opera and/or Google up to?

EDIT: typo

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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P.S. I wonder if anyone ( Jaclaz perhaps ) knows the answer to this. In Opera, when you try to copy the search URL I used above, Opera insists on giving you a string riddled with non-essential crap like &client=opera and other nonsense. Is there a way to just grab the URL in a neutral format? For example, do a search for "Vista DRM Peter Gutmann" and copy the URL of that search result and see if you also get the compound string with too many extraneous and specific components. Seems like a waste to me, and possibly even something identifiable. The one I posted above is this, which is manually edited down to just the core search terms, 72 characters instead of the default 492. :blink: WTF are Opera and/or Google up to?

JFYI, it's not Opera :), it's google :(.

See:

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169093

(the fact that it needs .Net 4.0, while being of unprecedented gravity :ph34r:, does not undermine the goodness of the idea beneath, it's just the tool - and the architecture it is written in - that sucks)

Better:

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/rid-unwanted-redirects-google-search-results/

Best (for Opera) ;):

https://addons.opera.com/en/extensions/details/remove-google-redirects/

:thumbup

Whatever Peter Gutmann writes is either far too alarmistic, void of practical relevance or both :ph34r:

Mind you his theories are mostly (but NOT entirely) right, but they are in the best case nothing more than that and he is responsible (indirectly) of so many hard disk deaths (caused by senseless wiping) that he should get a bonus from Seagate and WD.

I will quote Linus Torvalds (out of context, but it applies to most of Mr. Gutmann essays):

No. I'm saying that sane people don't get hung up about every little possibility.

Why are security people always so **** black-and-white? In most other

areas, such people are called "crazy" or "stupid", but the security people

seem to call them "normal".

BTW I already awarded Mr. Gutmann the 1996 Award for best use of "palimpsestuous" in a technical paper.

BUT I want to repeat a concept that it seems like it slipped by in the thread.

You seem like upset because these guys do not listen to you.

The point is not that one.

They are perfectly free to not listen to you (or me, or their customer base), the point is that they pretend that they are actually listening, and try to misrepresent feedback (as opposed to ignoring it which I see as stupid but perfectly legit) in an arrogant attempt to twist reality into their (wrong) expectations.

jaclaz

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JFYI, it's not Opera :), it's google :(.

See:

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169093

(the fact that it needs .Net 4.0, while being of unprecedented gravity :ph34r:, does not undermine the goodness of the idea beneath, it's just the tool - and the architecture it is written in - that sucks)

Better:

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/rid-unwanted-redirects-google-search-results/

Best (for Opera) ;):

https://addons.opera.com/en/extensions/details/remove-google-redirects/

:thumbup

Whatever Peter Gutmann writes is either far too alarmistic, void of practical relevance or both :ph34r:

Thanks for all that info :thumbup

Is that last link "Remove Google Redirects" for any version of Opera? The page is unclear. Since it only took me like 10 seconds to manually strip out the nonsense let me just ask if you think this add-on is time effective in your opinion?

P.S. I realize Peter Gutmann is controversial, though the Vista DRM subject is definitely not, he clearly nailed them for bending over to the Hollywood Mafia with "protected paths" ( kinda like inverting the security paradigm mentioned above with McAfee and blacklists ). And of course Linus himself is riddled with pretty much the same baggage thanks to smears by MicroZealots. At this point in my life I don't attack the messenger as a natural reflex, I just want to know if they are correct in what they are talking about. And we can probably agree with one thing - that when he launched the tirade about DRM, Microsoft was caught off-guard and speechless and they and their fanboy zealots had a cow and that itself became the issue for many of us. That's when they lost me as a natural ally. Shooting the messenger is the first instinct of tyrants.

I haven't really been able to give them the benefit of the doubt ever since.

EDIT: typo

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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Cannot say the specific version compatible, it works on the one I am using right now: 12.10.1652

However the script is available here:

https://github.com/ABHIJEET-MUNESHWAR/Remove-Google-Redirects/blob/master/

and it seems to me "plain enough" javascript, so it should be fairly "version independent".

Yes, I find it extremely well working.

Just try it, if you don' t like the "effect" you can disable it (or remove it) in no time.

jaclaz

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You're making a mistake by hyping Gutmann too much. We all hate NuMicrosoft, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Gutmann's article has lots of inaccuracies and unreasonable doom and gloom.

All the content paths etc. get activated on Vista (and 7) only when it plays Blu-rays and HD-DVDs, that's all basically. It doesn't get in the way otherwise and makes no appearance. It's completely optional - don't want it, don't use that media. All legal devices that play HD-DVDs and Blu-rays have the same protection mechanisms. Vista's performance problems had nothing to do with the DRM at all - something that Gutmann claimed.

And as far as I know, protected path is also something that is requested by the application - i.e. the player software needs to request it itself. It can play blu-rays on Vista without it (but then it can't carry the official logo etc.)

Edited by Formfiller
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OT :ph34r: , but not much ;), that pink Cluster sign reminds me halfway of Richard Hammond's (winner) attempt to create a cheap Police car in Top Gear:

2pmbJ.jpg

and the other half of V-Visitors (as seen through the special glasses):

alien_invasions_9.jpg

jaclaz

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You're making a mistake by hyping Gutmann too much. We all hate NuMicrosoft, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Gutmann's article has lots of inaccuracies and unreasonable doom and gloom.

All the content paths etc. get activated on Vista (and 7) only when it plays Blu-rays and HD-DVDs, that's all basically. It doesn't get in the way otherwise and makes no appearance. It's completely optional - don't want it, don't use that media. All legal devices that play HD-DVDs and Blu-rays have the same protection mechanisms. Vista's performance problems had nothing to do with the DRM at all - something that Gutmann claimed.

Well I wasn't hyping him at all. I was merely pointing out the exact timeframe that Microsoft went off the rails.

Certainly I did follow these goings-on at the time, and the above links returned by Google nicely encapsulate the holy war that was visited upon him, particularly by Ed MicroBot. The way I remember it is that the guy ( Gutmann ) did us a service from outside of Microsoft without hands-on any of their internal documents or testing equipment or ultra-fast Core2 state-of-the-art processors at the time, a difficult task. And he managed to outline, albeit not perfectly, the plan in place to intrude upon personal computers.

In my opinion ( not Gutmann's), the Windows 6.x redesign signaled a sea-change, from the innocent earlier era where both the computer hardware OEM optical devices were bare without all the special DRM chips installed in retail consumer electronics, and the software to utilize this bare hardware was whatever we chose to buy and use. Microsoft caved in to the Hollywood Mafia assuming role of facilitator, adding the equivalent code to the OS to compensate for what was lacking from the bare drives for personal computers we all purchase at our leisure. Windows 6 in effect becomes the integrated DRM circuits to satisfy Hollywood and the copyright coalitions, inflicting their vision on people whether they like it or not. "It's completely optional - don't want it, don't use that media." is not a good answer because I just might choose to use that hardware and media without DRM for my own purposes. If I can get the optical drive "bare" that handles the new DVD or whatever planned formats, I don't want Microsoft stepping in and handing them a software path to accomplish what they failed to do at the IC level.

But let's not forget the real issue of 6 (!) years ago - the slippery slope, especially considering who we are dealing with: Hollywood and the copyright syndicate who will take an inch and demand miles, and, Microsoft, who will sell you out in a heartbeat. DRM through the OS was a precedent to which they will return and revisit over and over again. The only reason it wasn't further exploited is that optical media fell out of favor with the fickle public who have moved on to new ( pardon the pun ) Vistas. Next up, Microsoft patrolling your personal cloud and metering the bytes between you and everyone else to enhance your cloud experience, to protect Hollywood and the copyright crime syndicate from your activities.

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and the other half of V-Visitors (as seen through the special glasses):

Awesome flick ... They Live! ... and more apropos by the day I think ...

6x5hxvL.jpg

EDIT: updated image URL

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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In my opinion ( not Gutmann's), the Windows 6.x redesign signaled a sea-change, from the innocent earlier era where both the computer hardware OEM optical devices were bare without all the special DRM chips installed in retail consumer electronics, and the software to utilize this bare hardware was whatever we chose to buy and use.

Well, Windows XP had Macrovision drivers already baked-in:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/bulletin/ms07-067

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@Charlotte

You see :) even the (good :unsure: ) little creatures from outer space do have (among others :ph34r: ) a sign:

work 8 hours

sleep 8 hours

play 8 hours

And not:

mindlessly send unneeded e-mails and chat/facebook/socialize online on a tablet 8 hours

sleep 8 hours

mindlessly play angry birds or the like on a tablet 8 hours

;)

jaclaz

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Microsoft tries a new Windows 8 damage control message

This extremely interesting article touches on several issues that we've been covering in this thread. Instead of picking highlights as usual, I'll ask everybody to read it and hope that you'll all come back with your own favorite quotes. If nobody does that, then I'll inflict my own selections on you... ;)

Well not surprisingly, I like it. :yes:

Favorite quote was when he was talking about Ultrabooks and the new "contortionist" form factors: "Both are too expensive, bring the user nothing they want, and still fail at the basic things consumers actually need. In other words they suck more than PCs of old, but you pay a huge premium for it.". Early in this thread I said something like "Great, we'll have $1000 netbooks ..." and repeatedly spoke of spiking prices with no gain. So I like his article because there is a lot of truth in there, and as you alluded to, lots that we have discussed here. :thumbup

When he is talking about the meme and the shills and the big lie making the rounds as fact, he could almost be critiquing the majority of commenters at NeoWin and The Verge, two outlets rife with parrots.

Yeah, I have yet to see either statistics or first-party experience to suggest that people are clamoring for Ultrabooks or touch-enabled PCs/laptops.

Here's my own favorite paragraph from the article, which is related to the one you picked:

If change in PCs was needed to spur sales, that didn’t happen during the launches of Vista and 7. Sales rose. It did happen during the launch of Windows 8 and sales plummeted. Before you point out that change may be the actual cause of this plunge, think about one other little thing. You can still get Vista/7 form factor PCs now, you just can’t get them with those OSes. See the logical problem?

--JorgeA

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Playskool http://www.neowin.ne...drawing-support

3146.fingerpainting.png-550x0.jpg

EDIT: Wake me up when I can have 2 SQL server windows open at the same time, altering 300 raws manually, having an eye on my emergency email account, update several servers, chatting, talking on forums, buying stuff online and watching Netflix all at the same time... yes, I CAN multi-task! :D

Edited by ciHnoN
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