JorgeA

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

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ClassicShell 3.5 is now out which supports Win8 CP:

In the screenshot you showed a few posts back, the start menu appears to have a Metro-style look (typeface and background). Is it possible in the newest ClassicShell to make it look like the regular Start Menu?

Just trying to limit exposure to Metro ugliness as much as possible!

--JorgeA

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A "whether you like it or not" type of approach only works when there is one option. :rolleyes:

Well put!

--JorgeA

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In the screenshot you showed a few posts back, the start menu appears to have a Metro-style look (typeface and background). Is it possible in the newest ClassicShell to make it look like the regular Start Menu?

yes, select the "Vista Aero Skin" in the ClassicShell options.

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In the screenshot you showed a few posts back, the start menu appears to have a Metro-style look (typeface and background). Is it possible in the newest ClassicShell to make it look like the regular Start Menu?

yes, select the "Vista Aero Skin" in the ClassicShell options.

Cool, thanks!

I actually like the way that the Vista/Win7 menu works, whereas ClassicShell is more like the way Windows 98 works. But that's fine, too -- either of them is way better than Metro Start. :puke:

--JorgeA

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M$ definetely going overboard with their "Forced-Obselescene Plan"

Thankfully some people already figured out how to make programs compiled with the latest VC++ work on XP & 2003.

Then again I don't see anyone moving to VS 11 in the near future, much less using the .NET framework 4.5 which brings so little besides incompatibility, the usual price tag and an overly depressing gray theme wtih CAPS.

I just got a chance to read the linked article, and although I'm no expert in these matters I do see where the "forced obsolescence" angle comes in:

There is another new roadblock that Microsoft has put in our way. Previous to VC 11, we could override both the minimum operating system and subsystem version numbers using a linker command line option. However in VC 11, they only allow specification of 6.0 (Vista) as a minimum. That means there is NO way to write the necessary operating and subsystem versions to the built binary without a separate post-build tool.

The workaround sounds pretty imaginative, and I'm glad that people are finding ways not to get railroaded into using OS's they don't want. Thanks for the link.

--JorgeA

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Microsoft is reportedly holding fast to its anti-Start Orb position: http://www.neowin.net/news/report-microsoft-wont-add-start-button-for-windows-8

There were 212 comments already when I loaded the page. If the folks at MS have any marketing sense at all, as the deadline approaches they will suddenly let the Start Orb and Menu come back to life, and many people will be so relieved and delighted that they'll go out and pre-order Windows 8.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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It's not so much the lack of the orb that's a problem for me (I don't really care if it's there or not -- hot corners suck though), it's all the Metro garbage and that atrocious start screen that is. And since there won't be a way to disable that then we'll stay with Win7 for the foreseeable future.

Hopefully Win9 won't be such rubbish. Otherwise it's adiós Windows, and I really mean it. MS neglected a LOT of stuff in the latest versions of Windows, and even made a lot of things quite annoying but overall it was still better than the previous version. Not so this time -- the cons FAR outweigh the very short list of pros.

The next computer I'm buying will be a Mac regardless.

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All that I see is one sweaty, desperate, poorly dressed bald guy who thinks he's cool (ala

which people are still laughing at) who's willing to sacrifice their main product in order to get a small share of the mobile market (something where they've always failed hard). Making Windows suck is all it'll accomplish (and backlash, driving people to other OS'es, etc). He should have been fired years ago. The guy's embarrassing to watch and he's making a lot of bad choices for the company too.
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All that I see is one sweaty, desperate, poorly dressed bald guy who thinks he's cool (ala

which people are still laughing at) who's willing to sacrifice their main product in order to get a small share of the mobile market (something where they've always failed hard). Making Windows suck is all it'll accomplish (and backlash, driving people to other OS'es, etc). He should have been fired years ago. The guy's embarrassing to watch and he's making a lot of bad choices for the company too.

+1 on everything you said.

BTW, as a Win98 fan I couldn't help but notice what looks like the Windows 98 logo in the background on that video...

--JorgeA

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tomasz86,

Instead of "Windows, Windows, Windows," shouldn't Ballmer be chanting "tiles, tiles, tiles"?? Because he and Sinofsky are pushing the "window" concept out the, ahh, window -- and dragging people back to 1980s tiles.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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Big, gaudy square tiles, that is :puke:

Either ways, Classic Shell 3.5 makes Win8 an okay OS. There's not much gained over Win7 feature-wise (fancier explorer and task manager mainly). It should be like a $50 upgrade at most IMO (without classic shell and with Metro forced on you then make that less than $0).

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Either ways, Classic Shell 3.5 makes Win8 an okay OS.

CoffeeFiend,

Using ClassicShell, can you boot straight into the desktop, or do you still have to do that by hand once the system is done loading?

Incidentally, you've said that your alternative to Windows (8) would be the Mac. I heard this today on the Security Now! podcast, and I'm curious to hear what you have to say:

If you want to sell apps in the App Store on the desktop, your apps must be sandboxed. We've talked about this on MacBreak Weekly. I think the iOS-ification of the desktop is where Apple's headed.
(empahsis added)

And, to keep this post on-topic, there's this:

Microsoft's kind of doing the same thing with Windows 8 - making the desktop essentially an iOS

The entire discussion is worth listening to, or reading. There's a number of things that address the needs of developers specifically (such as the loss of program features). Do a search for "sandboxing" on that page, start there and read to the end of it about halfway down the page as indicated by the scrollbar.

What do you think? If Apple continues the trend, does it make the Mac a less viable alternative?

--JorgeA

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Using ClassicShell, can you boot straight into the desktop, or do you still have to do that by hand once the system is done loading?

As-is, it requires you to click on "desktop" once. There might be a way to automate that though. I haven't tried yet.

you've said that your alternative to Windows (8) would be the Mac

I don't know if I'd say "alternative to". But for now it'll sure be "complements Windows" as it can do a good amount of what we need -- or almost everything if you run some Windows-only apps in VMs.

If you want to sell apps in the App Store on the desktop, your apps must be sandboxed.

Yep. Another reason Metro garbage is a non-starter for anything serious, and a part of why we won't develop for it.

I think the iOS-ification of the desktop is where Apple's headed.

Pure speculation. Apple tried to do something that's actually better than Win8's Metro i.e. Launchpad. It was basically "we'll let you run those smartphone-like apps on your desktop" which sounds kinda neat and fun (it's entirely optional! Don't want any of it? No problem, it'll stay out of your way). Not this "we'll force a smartphone UI on your desktop and push real hard for everything to become dinky apps" which is a completely moronic approach. Apple still failed, so I don't think MS' brain-dead approach will work any better. If Apple improves Launchpad it might turn into something half-decent for some users, whereas I don't see Metro ever not sucking real bad for most people.

Microsoft's kind of doing the same thing with Windows 8 - making the desktop essentially an iOS

MS is forcing a touch UI for a smartphone on us, but Apple so far isn't.

There's a number of things that address the needs of developers specifically (such as the loss of program features). Do a search for "sandboxing" on that page, start there and read to the end of it about halfway down the page as indicated by the scrollbar.

Apple is only forcing sanboxing for iOS apps, which is not their "main UI" (just for Launchpad), unlike Windows where the new main UI (Metro) does.

These repeated failures will cost MS some market share. Not everyone will switch but a lot will get tired of it. And with more users on other platforms it will put that much extra pressure to develop cross-platform applications which lets more users to move to other platforms and so on. They're hoping to get some tablets sales but they're slowly forcing people to other platforms.

Edit: Just a fun little observation. Before Win7 went RTM in July, it was already up to like 1% of the market share. Win8 despite having a developer and consumer preview is still sitting at like 0.1%. Win7 had a higher share of the market before the first beta was even out (due to a leak a few days before). Win8 is widely available and yet nobody runs it comparatively. I think that speaks volumes about what people think of it.

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Using ClassicShell, can you boot straight into the desktop, or do you still have to do that by hand once the system is done loading?

no, this is still not possible. Booting directly to the desktop by skipping the metro-hell is only allowed for Server with Desktop Experience role installed.

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