JorgeA

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

6,162 posts in this topic

Insights from an insider:

Also there's a strange notion in the press that stuff executives say or any inferred statement from a single Microsoft email constitutes an official position by Microsoft. All too often we see executives saying something silly because they don't know or got the wrong end of the stick, or an email pronouncing the death of a core Windows technology gets taken at face value.

A lot of this is a consequence of Microsoft's abandonment of the press; there's certainly a feeling at MS that "haters gonna hate" and that there's no point talking with the press or doing effective communication because it'll end up backfiring, and so people that should be taught to deal with the press aren't, and the press jump or infer too much from misleading scraps of emails because of an information vacuum caused by Microsoft's inability to have a unified press strategy.

http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/Microsoft-spoof/241d13da60b8401b98fca1580068f83f

MS HQ in 2020:

Bunker-Chicago-IL-USA-6-566x377.jpg

Press Department building:

Bunker.jpg

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Fanbots are ecstatic:

http://www.neowin.net/news/windows-8-market-share-up-to-236-for-january-while-windows-7-falls

Windows 8 market share up to 2.36% for January while Windows 7 falls

First of all, it's 2.26%, according to the graphic they have embedded themselves:

windows8marketshare.jpg

Windows 8 market share is up, having gained 0.58% in January to post an overall market share of 2.36% - this shows marginally slower growth for Windows 8 in January, with the operating system's December market share rising 0.66%.

As I said earlier, let's not forget that many people got shopping coupons or money as Christmas gifts, and some of them bought PCs and laptops for that money in January. And I guess lots of people who got computers as Christmas gifts haven't used them in December at all but powered them on in January as well. Once this post-Christmas effect of January wears wears off, W8 will grow at a much slower pace. The price quadrupling of the W8 upgrade will further slow it down, too.

AND, Windows 8 is still lagging Vista!

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9235059/Windows_8_s_uptake_falls_behind_Vista_s_pace

According to Net Applications, Windows 8's online usage share through Dec. 22 was 1.6% of all Windows PCs, an uptick from 1.2% of November. Windows 8 publicly launched on Oct. 26.

At the same two-month mark in Vista's release timetable, that OS accounted for 2.2% of all Windows systems, double the month prior.

So, W8 is after three months (four if you count October in) barely at Vista's second month levels. And Vista had no Christmas boost, unlike Windows 8, nor had it such a cheap upgrade price.

Edited by Formfiller
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The lock down continues... http://www.i-program...nd-directx.html

It is reported that Microsoft has sent an email to DirectX/XNA MVPs which informs them that they are no longer needed because XNA and DirectX are no longer evolving. What does this mean? If you don't need MVPs then presumably you anticipate nothing to support in the future.

According to Promit Roy, a technical lead at Action Equals Reaction Labs and ex-Microsofty (on his personal blog), the email says:

"The XNA/DirectX expertise was created to recognize community leaders who focused on XNA Game Studio and/or DirectX development. Presently the XNA Game Studio is not in active development and DirectX is no longer evolving as a technology. Given the status within each technology, further value and engagement cannot be offered to the MVP community. As a result, effective April 1, 2014 XNA/DirectX will be fully retired from the MVP Award Program."

Eventhough they try to cover it up and sort'a kind'a deny it http://www.zdnet.com...ctx-7000010647/ ...the bold underlined text above cannot be denied.

Some good comments:

Probably

The truth is that they continue investing on DirectX but they don't want you using it because they want you to go through the WinRT layer for everything, i.e. the Win App Store API.

They are ruining the Windows platform piece by piece.

1 February, 2013 07:43

"Presently the XNA Game Studio is not in active development and DirectX is no longer evolving as a technology."

Its very clearly worded, no ambiguiti

...But, recently we've heard too much things from Microsoft that 'doesnt sound right' in the first, but have different level of truth in it, like 'Silverlight is DEAD'(we heard it before SL5 was released), 'Start menu is DEAD', 'XNA is DEAD', 'Desktop is LEGACY', '.NET is deprecated, JavaScript is your futrue', 'No WP7 or CE tablets, Windows (7) is for tablets!' etc etc, we really can't be sure, pretty much anything can happen these days.

This is so so true, I must quote it twice! :P

The truth is that they continue investing on DirectX but they don’t want you using it because they want you to go through the WinRT layer for everything, i.e. the Win App Store API.

They are ruining the Windows platform piece by piece.

Edited by ciHnoN
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Upgrade To Windows 8 ? ... Houston We Have Another Problem

Summary: If you are using 32-bit Windows to purchase Windows 8, you will receive 32-bit files regardless of your system capabilities!

Silly me, I thought I was done with that simple chore of downloading Windows 8 for a customer to install later on their Windows XP system. Nope. :no: Not in MicroLand where nothing is easy, or even sensible. You see, and I forgot this last night, that 2GB download was naturally the 32-bit version of Windows 8. I should have remembered that since Vista, any distribution totaling 2GB is not 64-bit. :realmad: It's my own fault for trusting them to have set up an option-laden upgrade system, after all, they have so many years of practice at it. Nope, they learned nothing.

Well I'm not the only one that walked into this mess. For example, see here to read comments by a lot of ticked off people. Also here. What seems to have happened is that their brilliant "Upgrade Assistant" uses "system sniffing" to decide what to download, incorrectly assuming that the system making the purchase is the one that gets the install. This is similar to the "browser sniffing" they use on many webpages telling you 'This MSKB article pertains to another operating system' as if people will never use a different computer ( which itself is rather funny when you are looking up articles about a FUBAR computer or lost network access or BSOD, where it would be impossible to be using the computer with the problem being researched ). "Sniffing" is plain stupid, be it system, browser, or glue. If you insist on being too clever by half and using "sniffing" you had better make allowances for situations where people are using computers other than the one they are researching about, and offer clear choices to accommodate them. Perhaps it is appropriate. The logic behind this Windows 8 "Upgrade Assistant" pretty much matches the caliber of their new operating system.

Anyway, when you run this ridiculous Windows 8 "Upgrade Assistant" they missed many opportunities to avoid the problem. Many opportunities. I collected and annotated six different screens where they could have used some disambiguation ( and there are even more opportunities ). Have a look here at this graphic which hopefully might help some others ...

cj0a5wQ.jpg

Now where this gets silly is in the recommended and suggested solutions from Microsoft, the MVP volunteers, and the larger tech community. It is a real mess. The above two linked threads have these ideas and links to others offsite.

  • Get a refund. Screw it.
  • Buy the DVD with both the 32-bit and 64-bit installers.
  • Install 64-bit Windows on your current computer and then download it again ( Wait what? You want to upgrade 32-bit XP to 64-bit Windows 8 so you must first get a 64-bit something else! )
  • Go to another computer running a Windows 64-bit version and do it again. ( Note my previous post, if you are on WinXP64 you likely still will need to collect the files! ).
  • Borrow a 64-bit install from someone else ( Questionable )
  • Download a pure MSDN/Technet 64-bit installer image ( Illegal! )
  • Find a cracked torrent ( Illegal! )

You should note that in reality we are no further along than we were since Activation first appeared around Office XP and Windows XP. One of the so-called advantages of this was said to be that we were now purchasing a license or serial number or activation code, not media. The media would now be independent of the license and therefore be less criminal to distribute the files. Well this never came to fruition, now did it? We got all the negatives of activation, and none of the positives of easy-to-find distribution media. Microsoft still makes a fuss about 3rd parties hosting service packs and meaningless updates, let alone entire Windows install discs. This is practically criminal what they have done to the average consumer who does not have a TechNet subscription ( which itself is technically only for educational and testing purposes, using it to reinstall a legal Windows installation at some business or a random customers' home is at a best gray area, but likely a violation ). Frankly, this is one of the worst things they have ever done and if you ask me deserves class action status. Couple this with the OEM scam where they do not normally distribute any media, only a recovery partition ( which for some reason is unavailable when a HDD dies! ) it is clear that Microsoft is operating a scam best described as Planned Obsolescence. Their thinking is 'If a million people need to reinstall Windows, some percentage of them will fail to locate legal media and just give up and buy a new system or Windows retail'. Unfortunately, some of them are saying screw you and going elsewhere. Speculation or not, they should be crushed in court for this evil plan.

In this particular case my client doesn't really care now and will use the 32-bit installer because their system is less than 4GB RAM and isn't sure if there are 64-bit drivers for the other stuff they have anyway. Whatever. It still sucks that they get away with this nonsense.

P.S. So many people on the threads about this issue have no idea what it means to have a 64-bit system. Many are basing their decision solely on what bit-size Windows is installed and is reported from Control Panel > System. This is NOT what 64-bit means. 64-bit is processor capability, you need to look up your CPU at Intel or AMD and look for something like: x64 Support?. If the processor runs the x64 extensions to x86 then you have a 64-bit system ( barring some obscure BIOS bug that fails to enable it ). Here is what is important, and something Microsoft failed to allow for in their ridiculous Windows 8 "Upgrade Assistant" ... there are many systems out there runnning 32-bit Windows because the thing shipped with 2GB RAM. End Result? Lots of XP and Vista laptops will wind up with Windows 8 32-bit because of the "Upgrade Assistant".

EDIT: clarity

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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Why Microsoft must become Apple and Google

A disconcerting title and article. The readers' comments are MUCH better:

There seems to be a huge segment that wasn't addressed here. Windows 7 and its previous versions will be around a long time, at least 10 years. To slap an intrusive interface on top of that system won't fly with countless users and businesses. It simply reduces productivity in the short term with its steep learning curve and long term by adding more steps to create content. Laptops and desktops are content creators. Smaller machines are content consumers, toys in other words. Microsoft, give us back a straight path to the system where REAL work is done.
I certainly hope that Microsoft will not become the arrogant, we should decide what you should do, we know what's best for you, you're holding it wrong, type of companies that Apple and Google are.
If I want Apple or Google I'll buy their stuff!

I want Microsoft to be Microsoft or I won't buy their stuff! (like Win8)

Can anyone say death spiral coming soon!!!!!!!!!

And then there is the obligatory shill offering vacuous (when not ludicrous) comments...

I really like W8, there are so many nice interface features and it's so much faster than it's predecessors. At one point I was going to drop back to W7 when another developer told me to take the time to really see what's going on and appreciate things like enhanced execution speed, better multitasking and enhancement of threading features.
(emphasis added)

:lol::lol:

...well answered by a subsequent reader:

I have a tablet. I have a desktop. I have a notebook. I have a laptop. I use all of them, some more, others less. The tablet and notebook are for play, the rest are work. The minimal performance differences available from Win8 (as opposed to Win 7) are minimal from a user point of view. The improvement in performance is virtually irrelevant to anything I really do. Gaining a couple of seconds in boot up time? Ask me if I care? I LIKE the desktop and I like Win7. I don't want a tabletized OS. Keep Win 8, but remember that those of us who WORK don't USE TABLETS TO DO IT. We understand, as apparently you don't, the difference between play and productivity. Apple gets it: the OS for their tablet ISN'T the same as for their working machines. Why is MS finding it so hard to see the difference? Hello out there! The real world exists and some of us live in it.

--JorgeA

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I just noticed something in a couple of the recent Thurrott columns ...

Fact Check: Windows 8 Pricing Identical to That for Windows 7. There's been a lot of whining this week. It's all unnecessary ( 2013-01-19 )

The Morning After: A Look at the New Normal in Windows 8 Upgrade Pricing ( 2013-02-01 )

He is of course defending the 5x price increase, curiously saying it is now the same as Windows 7.

Windows 8 (Core) Upgrade: $119.99

Windows 8 Pro Upgrade: $199.99

Windows 7 Home Premium Upgrade: $119.99

Windows 7 Professional Upgrade: $199.99

It’s identical.

Or is it? Did you forget something Paul? Perhaps something that was announced at the Official Destroying Windows Blog. You covered it yourself Paul, even disagreeing with Microsoft ( for once ) in Windows 8, DVD Playback, Media Center, and You. Yes, you forgot about Microsoft cutting costs by removing MPEG decoding and other "costs" from Windows, each having to shoulder the burden if they want it. It sure looks to me that your math clearly shows them "shouldering the burden" anyway, except no Media Center. Clearly the crappy new Windows costs at least $9.99 more than the equivalent version of Windows 7.

As many "cynical" people said at the time, Microsoft clearly cut costs by removing the DVD playback, and simply pocketed it.

Flashback to Post #996 with Sinofsky's ridiculous MicroSpeak ...

"In the process of building a robust platform, we’ve also evaluated which in-box media playback experiences we want to provide. The media landscape has changed quite significantly since the release of Windows 7. Our telemetry data and user research shows us that the vast majority of video consumption on the PC and other mobile devices is coming from online sources such as YouTube, Hulu, Netflix, or any of the other myriad of online and downloadable video services available. In fact, consumption of movies online in the United States will surpass physical video in 2012, according to this recent IHS Screen Digest research.

On the PC, these online sources are growing much faster than DVD & broadcast TV consumption, which are in sharp decline (no matter how you measure—unique users, minutes, percentage of sources, etc.). Globally, DVD sales have declined significantly year over year and Blu-ray on PCs is losing momentum as well. Watching broadcast TV on PCs, while incredibly important for some of you, has also declined steadily. These traditional media playback scenarios, optical media and broadcast TV, require a specialized set of decoders (and hardware) that cost a significant amount in royalties. With these decoders built into most Windows 7 editions, the industry has faced those costs broadly, regardless of whether or not a given device includes an optical drive or TV tuner.

Our partners have shared clear concerns over the costs associated with codec licensing for traditional media playback, especially as Windows 8 enables an unprecedented variety of form factors. Windows has addressed these concerns in the past by limiting availability of these experiences to specialized “media” or “premium” editions. At the same time, we also heard clear feedback from customers and partners that led to our much simplified Windows 8 editions lineup.

Given the changing landscape, the cost of decoder licensing, and the importance of a straight forward edition plan, we’ve decided to make Windows Media Center available to Windows 8 customers via the Add Features to Windows 8 control panel (formerly known as Windows Anytime Upgrade). This ensures that customers who are interested in Media Center have a convenient way to get it. Windows Media Player will continue to be available in all editions, but without DVD playback support. For optical discs playback on new Windows 8 devices, we are going to rely on the many quality solutions on the market, which provide great experiences for both DVD and Blu-ray."

TivbXGz.jpg

Check your math Paul.

EDIT: updated image URL, and again

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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Office 365, Outlook.com and SkyDrive experienced service disruptions Friday morning ( NeoWin 2013-02-01 )

Microsoft services outage blamed on routine maintenance ( NeoWin 2013-02-01 )

Another cloudy day for users of dumb-terminals. Can we now start calling it Office 364 363 now?

Microsoft exec slams low Google+ interaction rate ( NeoWin 2013-02-01 )

Hmmm. That's the fourth story of this nature in short order. Anyone else seeing pattern here ever since they hired a DC political hack ( Microsoft's DC insider could throw the kitchen sink at Google ).

Microsoft's corporate PR head calls out Google PR exec on Twitter ( NeoWin 2012-12-17 )

Microsoft slams Android on Twitter; response is mixed ( NeoWin 2012-12-05 )

Microsoft slams Google again, warns shoppers not to get "Scroogled” [update] ( NeoWin 2012-11-28 )

Very ugly and unprofessional. I'm amazed at the Board at Microsoft and what they put up with. Oh, wait. Gates is still Chairman of the Board. Nevermind.

Apple's Request to Triple $1.05B Samsung Damages Denied ( Tom's Hardware 2013-02-01 )

More about that significant case with the creepy possibly-biased jury foreman and the Apple-loving judge. The feeling is that she made this compromise ruling: no new trial ( pro-Apple ), no increased damages ( pro-Samsung ), just to kick it upstairs to the appeals court, or, because she is fed up with the whole thing. It will be interesting because if it goes through without a new trial, a new low precedent will be set for behavior in court. It is Samsung has the upper-hand now because they can afford the fine, and already jacked up prices on parts supplied to Apple ( hehe :lol: ). If the Judge did triple the damages, it would only result in triple cost to Apple in parts!

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So MS finally increased the price to $199, epic fail. Glad I bought it when it was $40. I don't see how this will increase sales and further rate usage though.

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I'm not sure what those children are going on about. Oh wait, I see they are talking about January as a whole. I have the last two charts from NeoWin ( 12 days apart ), so they must be skipping that one and going back to December. Well let's just see the last two they posted ...

xFXAoJl.jpg ... 2013-01-20

c3cuytX.jpg ... 2013-02-01

It doesn't look good at all for them in the past week and a half. Just to be sure I whipped up a quick and dirty spreadsheet, typing the numbers in by hand ...

gG1tiXF.jpg

It looks like Windows 8 is down Windows XP is up. The change is small though, and only a 12 day trend.

Summary: measuring from December Windows 8 is slightly up, measuring from 12 days ago ( the last two charts at NeoWin ) it is slightly down.

Does anyone have a source for the "start" period chart ( December? ) that NeoWin is now using?

ADDED: Naturally with the increasing share of Windows XP ( in both trend periods ) lots of the MetroTards take shots at it. ( oh I hope it cracks 40% again :yes: ) Typical spewing:

That's not the issue surrounding XP though. Companies/people sat on their asses while Vista rolled out, and continued to do so after 7 rolled out, until they realized, their laziness put them behind, and for some reason are blaming Microsoft for it. I still hear BS about stuff not being compatible, which is just absurd at this moment as Vista was released 7 years ago. If you haven't taken the time by this point to understand the post-XP things and doings, then you have no right to complain.

:lol: Sorry MicroZealot. Windows XP users are not complaining about anything. Only obsessive compulsive MetroTards are complaining, and they are complaining about Windows XP for some odd reason as if it impacts their narcissistic little world. ( Sent from an XP system running as administrator without any antivirus and without Windows updates for several years. By all means keep updating, patching and virus-checking your little Playskool Windows 8 non-administrator system. It has to be good for something besides Angry Birds. )

EDIT: updated image URLs, and again

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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I'm not sure what those children are going on about. Oh wait, I see they are talking about January as a whole. I have the last two charts from NeoWin ( 12 days apart ), so they must be skipping that one and going back to December. Well let's just see the last two they posted ...

If we can believe the reports, I note that, according to Neowin's pie charts (and the spreadsheet), Vista usage went up by as much as (and more than) Windows 8 went down. Win8 ugliness is driving people to beautiful Vista!!! :thumbup:whistle:

Meanwhile,

Microsoft Windows 8 Uptake Badly Lags Predecessor

Microsoft's Surface tablet running Windows RT had a measly 0.02% market share in January, three months after its launch.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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So MS finally increased the price to $199, epic fail. Glad I bought it when it was $40. I don't see how this will increase sales and further rate usage though.

Ditto.

Nice system you've got there, BTW.

--JorgeA

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So MS finally increased the price to $199, epic fail. Glad I bought it when it was $40. I don't see how this will increase sales and further rate usage though.

Ditto.

Rather than drive new computer sales, the Windows 8 price increase will probably drive eBay auctions.

So far there are a few. Some show retail in box and some mention digital, but I see no clear way to filter them at the moment. One is listed as $31.99 with no bids and 2 days left. Hmmm, is it possible that buying it low at $39 before the increase to $199 still isn't a sure bet. :lol: Man, that would be telling if it can't even sell at eBay above the sale price.

The other problem is the huge mess of SKU choices. Even reading through Thurrott's detailed explanation is still clear as mud to me, I can imagine what it's like for the non-Techie and n00b.

confusion.jpg

P.S. Anyone notice the crazy changes to Google images? Where are all the choices for alternate sizes?

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... ( Sent from an XP system running as administrator without any antivirus and without Windows updates for several years ... ) ...

I'm intrigued, any particular reason for no Windows updates in years Charlotte?

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... ( Sent from an XP system running as administrator without any antivirus and without Windows updates for several years ... ) ...

I'm intrigued, any particular reason for no Windows updates in years Charlotte?

Yeah, in my case I was intrigued by the "running without any antivirus" part.

It may be somewhat OT, but -- @CharlotteTheHarlot, inquiring minds want to know! :)

--JorgeA

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So MS finally increased the price to $199, epic fail. Glad I bought it when it was $40. I don't see how this will increase sales and further rate usage though.

Ditto.

Rather than drive new computer sales, the Windows 8 price increase will probably drive eBay auctions.

So far there are a few. Some show retail in box and some mention digital, but I see no clear way to filter them at the moment. One is listed as $31.99 with no bids and 2 days left. Hmmm, is it possible that buying it low at $39 before the increase to $199 still isn't a sure bet. :lol: Man, that would be telling if it can't even sell at eBay above the sale price.

The other problem is the huge mess of SKU choices. Even reading through Thurrott's detailed explanation is still clear as mud to me, I can imagine what it's like for the non-Techie and n00b.

confusion.jpg

P.S. Anyone notice the crazy changes to Google images? Where are all the choices for alternate sizes?

Artificial tug a price is nothing but yet another upsy daisy, forged by M$ HQ. :yes:

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