JorgeA

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

6,162 posts in this topic

Easier to explain away, though, would be a mediocre sales performance -- "we're in this for the long haul, people just recently upgraded to Win7," blah blah blah.

many people write that MS did "bold move" with win8 and this touch crap

but to me it looks like same scenario with vista, they try to predict what devices will be used and force people on using them

but as it was, vista was mostly skipped, then years later hardware/pc's ment for vista became "normal", but vista blew its chance

at least to my thinking win8 will follow same path

people will mostly stay on win7 and/or xp (at least smart people :D) and wait untill dust called win8 gets blown away by wind :P

the only problem will be how stubborn MS is, will they ever learn like it was with vista-7 scenario, or will they pretend it didn't happen and

go blindly forward with this crap

Edited by vinifera
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And a nice logo :whistle: :

xlarge.jpg

LOVED that logo!!!

Anybody feel like printing up a few thousand of those on adhesive backing, then going around to computer stores and sticking them on Surfaces and new PCs? :sneaky:

--JorgeA

Sincerely,ive didnt saw so much BSODs..since w3.11 (in regard of w8) :ph34r:

Edited by TheBigBang
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Surface Pro reviews are in:

http://www.osnews.com/story/26761/Surface_Pro_reviews_are_in

And there we are - the Surface Pro reviews are in. Reading through them all, there's clearly a common theme, and it's not particularly positive. We're a few months in now, so I think we can finally call it: Windows 8 and Surface are the wrong way to go.

The Surface Pro reviews all share a common theme: for a machine that's not supposed to have any compromises, it sure sports a lot of compromises. Battery life is atrocious, the split personality between Metro and the desktop is as jarring as ever, touch on the desktop is cumbersome, the desktop is set to 150% scaling which looks weird, it's heavy, the kickstand only has one position so it's not fun as a laptop, and so on, and so forth.

The end result is that it's not a good laptop, and not a good tablet. In other words, the idea that Surface is a 'no compromises' device is a bunch of nonsense. If you want a laptop, you're better off buying something like a MacBook Air or an Aspire S7, and if you want a tablet you're better off with an iPad or a Nexus.

All this has solidified my belief that Windows 8, as it stands now, was the wrong way to go. Microsoft should have released Windows 8 without Metro, and used Windows Phone 8 for tablets and phones. Windows Phone 8 already has many decent applications, developers are familiar with it, and the interface was already there - and a far less confusing one, too. I see very little in Windows 8's Metro that Windows Phone didn't already have or that could not be added without breaking anything.

On top of that, it would've solved the 7"-problem. You may have noticed there's no 7" Windows 8 tablet, and there's good reason for that: Metro is not suited for it, the desktop is not suited for it. It's pretty clear the major design decisions for Windows 8 were finalised before the popularity of 7" tablets became clear, and so Microsoft has to address it afterwards.

Microsoft could have entered the hardware space with a beautifully simple range of devices - Surface 4, Surface 7, Surface 10 (running Windows Metro, all ARM), and an ultrabook with a Surface-like design (Windows 8 without Metro, x86). Instead, we have lacklustre Surface tablets, a confusing operating system with split-personality disorder, and a development story that's anything but consistent across devices.

With Nokia barely being able to sell any serious amount of Lumias and Surface's lukewarm reception, Microsoft is certainly going through a tough time. I applaud Microsoft for trying to be different and having something resembling a vision, but its execution needs a lot of work.

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Sincerely,ive didnt saw so much BSODs..since w3.11 (in regard od w8) :ph34r:

Wow.

Stability is paramount for an operating system that's promoted as simple enough for "the masses" to use. If what you're experiencing starts happening to a lot of people, it will be another nail in the coffin for Windows 8.

--JorgeA

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Surface Pro reviews are in:

http://www.osnews.com/story/26761/Surface_Pro_reviews_are_in

And there we are - the Surface Pro reviews are in. Reading through them all, there's clearly a common theme, and it's not particularly positive. We're a few months in now, so I think we can finally call it: Windows 8 and Surface are the wrong way to go.

The Surface Pro reviews all share a common theme: for a machine that's not supposed to have any compromises, it sure sports a lot of compromises. Battery life is atrocious, the split personality between Metro and the desktop is as jarring as ever, touch on the desktop is cumbersome, the desktop is set to 150% scaling which looks weird, it's heavy, the kickstand only has one position so it's not fun as a laptop, and so on, and so forth.

The end result is that it's not a good laptop, and not a good tablet. In other words, the idea that Surface is a 'no compromises' device is a bunch of nonsense. If you want a laptop, you're better off buying something like a MacBook Air or an Aspire S7, and if you want a tablet you're better off with an iPad or a Nexus.

All this has solidified my belief that Windows 8, as it stands now, was the wrong way to go. Microsoft should have released Windows 8 without Metro, and used Windows Phone 8 for tablets and phones. Windows Phone 8 already has many decent applications, developers are familiar with it, and the interface was already there - and a far less confusing one, too. I see very little in Windows 8's Metro that Windows Phone didn't already have or that could not be added without breaking anything.

On top of that, it would've solved the 7"-problem. You may have noticed there's no 7" Windows 8 tablet, and there's good reason for that: Metro is not suited for it, the desktop is not suited for it. It's pretty clear the major design decisions for Windows 8 were finalised before the popularity of 7" tablets became clear, and so Microsoft has to address it afterwards.

Microsoft could have entered the hardware space with a beautifully simple range of devices - Surface 4, Surface 7, Surface 10 (running Windows Metro, all ARM), and an ultrabook with a Surface-like design (Windows 8 without Metro, x86). Instead, we have lacklustre Surface tablets, a confusing operating system with split-personality disorder, and a development story that's anything but consistent across devices.

With Nokia barely being able to sell any serious amount of Lumias and Surface's lukewarm reception, Microsoft is certainly going through a tough time. I applaud Microsoft for trying to be different and having something resembling a vision, but its execution needs a lot of work.

And this could be the coup de grace.

Surface and Windows 8 were a solution that no one (except in the executive offices of MSFT) was clamoring for. Like a beer-bellied father sporting a black-leather jacket and mohawk, Microsoft is going to end up looking ridiculous for trying to be a nimble operator in the fickle toy-electronics market. So first they followed into the tablet sector, now it turns out that they picked the wrong-sized tablets and have to go chasing after that.

Microsoft, stick to your proven strengths that have earned you a good living and well-deserved respect. Don't throw it away trying to be hip.

--JorgeA

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Sincerely,ive didnt saw so much BSODs..since w3.11 (in regard od w8) :ph34r:

Wow.

Stability is paramount for an operating system that's promoted as simple enough for "the masses" to use. If what you're experiencing starts happening to a lot of people, it will be another nail in the coffin for Windows 8.

--JorgeA

Im not the only one complaining about BSODs..

W8 'simplicity' is just another nail..as u know..

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Just starting to read them all now and I am already getting the distinct impression that the biggest enemy for Surface Pro was NOT Samsung tablets or Apple iPads, but Surface RT. If this thing cannot immediately blow the ReTard model out of the water then it is already dead.

Microsoft Surface with Windows 8 Pro Review ( Thurrott 2013-02-05 )

Subtitle: This is the Surface device that Microsoft should have gone to market with originally. His take is all over the place, and this is but one of a few promised installments ( yay ) as he will milk this for all its worth. Apparently he feels that they much better display resolution ( closer to Apple standards ) is a BAD thing, even suggesting they revert to the lower resolution used on Surface RT. He drifts off topic with some wackiness ...

Personally, I’m betting on Microsoft. This company cares more about the Windows experience than any of its hardware partners, as evidenced by the continued bundling of crapware on new PCs, and the refusal of virtually all of these partners—save new entries, like Vizio—to ship crapware-free Signature PCs that provide a clean and trouble-free Microsoft experience. Microsoft’s entry into this market changes everything. Period. The only question is how long it will take to erase perceptions about the poor quality of Windows-based PCs, perceptions that are almost entirely the fault of PC makers.

I find this funny because of the Microsoft-like need to blame the actual PC assemblers for the problems. I'm certainly no fan of OEM crapware, I don't know anyone who is. But we have to understand why it is there. The garbage is added because the OEMs almost definitely get some cash for the exposure, like product placement on TV and in movies ( ummm, maybe if we call it advertising, like that which is embedded into the Non-Free Paid-For Windows 8 he will get the connection ). Now the reason for this is because they have always operated with low profit margins on the computers they build and sell, somewhere between $50 and $100 per unit if I recall correctly. We cannot say with certainty, but that number probably matches Microsoft's payola cut also which is why this becomes laughable when MicroZealots like Thurrott criticize the OEMs for trying to squeeze a few more pennies out of the very computers they not only build and sell, but assume all the responsibility for warranty returns not just for hardware flaws but even Windows problems. And don't get me started on the lack of Windows discs which lead to customers going nuts downloading torrents just to workaround Microsoft's reprehensible customer treatment.

...if you’re like me, a traditional PC guy ...

Yes he actually said that! :lol: Paul "The Desktop Must Die" Thurrott is of course nothing of the sort. But what's the point of trying to explain it. Interestingly, he has already followed this review with another installment ...

Microsoft Addresses Surface Pro Concerns ( Thurrott 2013-02-06 )

Subtitle: They're listening, people. And you're going to like the answers. What, already? Not a good sign if you ask me.

Meanwhile over in NeoWonderland the reviewer demonstrates how to expose oneself as a MicroZombie ...

NEOWIN: When you pull the Surface Pro out of its box and you make contact with the VaporMag casing, the feeling of quality engulfs the senses as the mass of the device, which is about 2 lbs, gives you a sense of confidence that this is not a toy and it is designed for work.

It is almost as if Paul Thurrott had ghost-written it! See Post #866 where he earned the gold in the Fanboy Olympics with this amazing effort ...

THURROTT: "Windows 8 is a mess, but it’s a glorious, wonderful mess. It’s the technology equivalent of a gooey ice cream cone on a humid summer day, where half of it just drips down over your hand, and you couldn’t care less because the whole experience is so wonderful. For all the whining, hand-wringing, and ivory tower opining over Microsoft’s decision to wed an awesome new mobile platform with its superior desktop OS, few of these critics ever paused for a moment to consider an awesome possibility: This time, more really is more."

remarkable similarities. :yes:

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HP rumored to be considering company "break up" ( TechSpot 2013-02-06 )

From the department of bad karma. Not feeling sad about this one. Recall last year their Microsoft butt kissing ( HP won't support Windows 8 to 7 downgrade on consumer PCs ). And don't get me started on their bloated printer drivers and ink scam.

Dell Owner Admits Rapid Rise of Tablets Surprised Him ( Tom's Hardware 2013-02-06 )

It seems that all of these companies are lumbering giants with almost no ability to understand the trends. Let's see, LCD and the flat panel explosion, iPod and the MP3 player explosion. iPhone and the smartphone explosion, iPad and the tablet explosion. These are all inter-related and one leads to another. Even more interestingly, you can just as easily replace "Dell" with "Microsoft" and all the facts still remain the same. With Dell now getting into bed with Microsoft it seems they are a match made in heaven.

Apple Launches 128 GB iPad, Priced at $799 & $929 ( Tom's Hardware 2013-02-06 )

Apple handing more marketshare to Samsung, Google and Amazon, and perhaps doing a favor for Microsoft to save the Surface Pro. It is strange how both Microsoft and Apple are choosing to handle a flooded market in a bad economy. Let's go after the boutique high-end! They could have murdered the Surface Pro if they wanted to. Then again, perhaps we are now seeing the effects of the Samsung Tax ( payback for the California court fine ) on their supply lines. Karma again.

Apple's iTunes hits new milestone with 25 billion songs sold ( TechSpot 2013-02-06 )

This is a pretty amazing statistic to me, and the music industry must be besides themselves for not thinking of this first and instead just attacking random grandmothers downloading from Napster. Things like this are also the main source of the Microsoft Apple-envy resulting in their current madness with their reckless destruction of Windows in a useless attempt to catch up.

Leaked video seems to reveal high res touchscreen Google Chromebook ( NeoWin 2013-02-06 )

The video is very good and shows Google is serious about pulling in ex-Windows users now. Hmmm. Microsoft intentionally destroys Windows and Google builds a replacement operating system. What might happen next.

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Survey: 32 percent of IT workers want Windows inside their next tablet ( NeoWin 2013-02-06 )

Now that is a real 'glass half full' type of NeoWinian! Or is that 'glass 1/3 full' ! :lol: The title would more accurately be: Survey: 68 percent of IT workers do NOT want Windows inside their next tablet. Gotta love their optimism though ...

So based on numbers....1.3Billion people have a Windows PC. 65% of that total is business users. So that means almost half say yes they want Windows 8 Pro tablets. Which means 30% of 650M people could potentially be a candidate for such a device....About 1/3 which is more than 200M people could potentially buy such a device over time with execs being first.

Bartender, I'll have what he's drinking. :yes:

Rumor: next Xbox to block used games with one-time activation codes ( TechSpot 2013-02-06 )

Just a rumor, but perfectly believable these days. If true it is really a sad commentary on Microsoft in my opinion. Call it suicide.

Don't like the Surface design? Skin it at a Microsoft Store ( NeoWin 2013-02-06 )

This is what Microsoft means by skinning Windows! Change the outside of the computer, but don't you dare change what is on the screen ...

DSC00888_r1_c1.jpg

Kaspersky antivirus update cut off Windows XP Internet access; fix now in place ( NeoWin 2013-02-06 )

Not related to Windows 8 but a story like this is certain honeypot to attract foolish MetroTards to spew mindless venom about Windows XP. Examples ...

  • Hopefully this gets a few people off of XP.
  • I think Kaspersky shouldn't have updated the fix for windows XP, so could force people to finally get onto Windows 7.
  • Cutting off Windows XP from the internet is the best security update ever.

Friggin children.

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I would like to see the actual Forrester Research report.

They are the same guys that produced this one:

But not everyone there is seemingly on the Windows 8 tablet bandwagon:

http://blogs.forrester.com/david_johnson/13-01-29-the_coming_pc_management_crisis_a_hypothesis

My hypothesis

Complexity and disruption through management are the biggest risks to the PC's future in the enterprise. Microsoft has a real dilemma on its hands: Change the Windows OS too fast and they alienate enterprise customers with massive installed bases of Windows and billions invested in application development for the Windows desktop. Change it too slowly and they lose mindshare from individuals (notice I didn't call them "users" or "consumers") who see faster, easier ways to get things done and new devices that they use in ever more advanced ways. Microsoft continues to bet heavily on the enterprise, but they run a serious risk of alienating individuals who have a job to do if they continue to cede control over the user experience to others. The more their enterprise customers feel forced to engage in locking down their PC estates to protect themselves from malware and reduce support calls, the more disenchanted employees may become.

jaclaz

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Since the price increase for W8 on Amazon, it fell completely from the sales radar:

http://www.amazon.com/best-sellers-software/zgbs/software#1

Windows 7 is now at position 11 (Home Premium System Builder, $91.17), followed by Windows Home Premium retail at position 37 ($167.02).

Windows 8 is at position 40! (W8 Professional System Builder, $110.99), followed by the W8 Pro upgrade at 41 (the one that sold for cheap).

Edited by Formfiller
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Since the price increase for W8 on Amazon, it fell completely from the sales radar:

http://www.amazon.co...zgbs/software#1

Windows 7 is now at position 11 (Home Premium System Builder, $91.17), followed by Windows Home Premium retail at position 37 ($167.02).

Windows 8 is at position 40! (W8 Professional System Builder, $110.99), followed by the W8 Pro upgrade at 41 (the one that sold for cheap).

It's even on "sale!"

List Price: $176.85

Price: $110.99

You Save: $65.86 (37%)

COME'ON COME'ON HURRY UP... THIS STUFF IS GOOD! *sounding like a salesman from 1920s* :angel

hahaha

Edited by ciHnoN
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Oh, it's the creepy touch cover guy.

Actual quotes from him in the Surface presentation:

"When you touch, you wanna gonna hold it. I promise you"

"Nothing stirrs me more, nothing gets me more excited than Touch Cover!"

"My Surface knows what is connected to it"

"It also had to be a cover you wanted to connect. Something you always had with you, something that gave you confidence"

"You can't miss, we force you do not miss!"

"feels like a book, holds like book, organically like a book, carries like a book!" [bookasm?]

"it just feels... perfect."

"you gonna fall in love with Touch Cover, I know I have. I am seriously in love with it, and besides my wife, Touch Cover is my number two. It's very important to me. I never want to take Touch Cover off."

"you never have to take it off, and underneath your fingertips.. it feels GREAT!"

"an experience like no other"

Edited by Formfiller
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Oh, just fond out about this one:

http://www.brentozar.com/archive/2011/12/my-thoughts-on-sql-server-s-licensing-changes/

SQL Server 2012 licensing got goofed up too (heavy price hike).

Gotta love that. It's funny. Now that MS got some serious competition, what do they do? Raise prices! Across the board: Servers, Office, consumer hardware (Windows Notebooks are now more expensive than they were a year ago).

Good job. I've never seen a company raising prices of all their products in a competitive situation like this. They are behaving under siege WORSE than they did in the monopoly times. Are they crazy?

Ironically, this new Microsoft sucks far more than the old ebill "monopoly" MS ever did.

Monopoly (90s) MS was vicious with the competition, but it was a fair deal for the customers (Mac back then crashed as much as Windows 9x did btw, and Netscape 4.0 wasn't exactly a marvel of engineering), while this "nu Microsoft" hipsterama is all about setting the customers themselves up (W8, forced Office subscription and forced MS account-nag everywhere)

Anyway, I sure as hell won't ever rent Office, they can suck it. Libre Office is, unfortunately, still a pile of freetard dung, but I would rather use that than signing up for Microsoft's extortion scheme. They are not luring by increasing value, but by making the traditional Office licensing a hassle - non transferable licensing (with the retail version! If you motherboard gets damaged, you need to pay the full price for Office again), one PC only licensing (Office 2010 allowed one install on the desktop PC, and one install on your laptop. That's gone with Office 2013), massive price hike (Home and Student 2010 was installable on 3 PCs for 125$, you need to pay three times as much with 2013).

They know fully well that no one would sign-up for Office 365 if the old licensing was still in place.

And Windows 8 - well, everything has been said about this guy.

The other *wanna-be Office replacements have still not attained full compatibility with the MS Office file format, so if you have complex MS Office documents, you still need the software. A software that got a massive price hike. It's funny - now that they ARE harming the customers with a true monopoly situation (instead of other corps) there is no DOJ and no EU to the rescue. I guess that's because there is no bribe money involved this time.

I for one won't upgrade beyond Windows 7 and Office 2010 until they are completely out of life support. And I had absolutely no problems with MS and their products until they went into self-destruct mode in 2011.

*After some testing, it appears that Softmaker (http://www.softmaker.com) has far better compatibility than Libre/Open Office by the way. If you need a MS Office replacement, try that.

Well, I am sorry for the "colorful" langauge. I needed to vent off.

Edited by Tripredacus
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