JorgeA

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

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PC World joins the dark side:

Much of our discussion of Windows 9 has accepted the twin premises of marginalizing the desktop and pushing the new Modern interface. We're just being realistic. Microsoft clearly sees its future in the new interface, where it has greater control over the apps and Web services that people use. Though longtime PC users might find comfort in imagining a future where desktops get their own version of Windows, untainted by the Modern-style interface, in real life that ship has most likely sailed.

For Windows 9, Microsoft must leave the legacy Windows desktop behind once and for all, while at the same time converting the Windows masses to seeing the necessity of this step the company's way.

Well, we'll see about that. In a market economy, the motto is that the customer is always right, otherwise the customer will buy elsewhere. Microsoft is trying to act more like a government than a market player, entangling us into its preferred system and upping the cost and inconvenience of using alternatives. But as the train is only now gearing up, it's still possible to leap off and live.

Most of the commenters seem to be on our side.

What they need to do is give options. Let people choose to start their systems in the traditional desktop with start menu or the metro interface. They can add some easy short cut to get back to metro but people only should have to bring it up if the want/need too.

People that want to use that stupid worhtless interface that doesn't even let you choose where to install programs can. Those of us who want a real computer can use the traditional interface. Now everyone wins, the mentally challanged get to use metro and the power users get to keep the desktop to do real work.

Really, everything in this article is just a lot of very, very bad ideas. Microsoft needs to get back to focusing on usability. Tablets are here to stay, so they need to just create and entirely different OS designed for media consumption and use that for their tablets and phones. Make programs for one automatically work on the other, and make file transfers between devices seamless.

Bottom line: stop treating tablets like PCs and PCs like tablets. Recognize each for what it is, and design an OS to operate that tool most efficiently.

:thumbup

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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PC World joins the dark side:

Much of our discussion of Windows 9 has accepted the twin premises of marginalizing the desktop and pushing the new Modern interface. We're just being realistic. Microsoft clearly sees its future in the new interface, where it has greater control over the apps and Web services that people use. Though longtime PC users might find comfort in imagining a future where desktops get their own version of Windows, untainted by the Modern-style interface, in real life that ship has most likely sailed.

For Windows 9, Microsoft must leave the legacy Windows desktop behind once and for all, while at the same time converting the Windows masses to seeing the necessity of this step the company's way.

12145114.jpeg

I'm beginning to suspect Se7en will be the last Microsoft OS I will ever use.

Edited by TELVM
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LOL, that's pretty clever!

--JorgeA

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Articles like that on PC World make it apparent that the problem is not only Windows 8, but a collective mania of touch-is-thefuturebeitallenditallslicedbreadinventionofthecentury..

They (IT journalists and pundits) are seriously thinking everyone will either convert to touch within two years or a minority-report style interface will come any minute and all businesses will flock to that. Typing on keyboard and using mouse is dead and buried and no one does this anymore.

It will take probably one-two years until some sanity returns here (flopping W8 sales will certainly help that). This also gets me thinking - how insane is it that the main working device of this age is in the hands of petty tech hipsters? Imagine car companies would have the same modus operandi: Ditching their workhorse models for weird two-seater-truck-SUV-sportscar hybrids because sports cars are selling currently in other markets, and the industry press even hyping it and demanding that even those hybrids should go next year and all other models besides sports cars need to be trashed right away.

Pretty much impossible that this would happen in the car industry. Or in ANY kind industry, besides IT.

Edited by Formfiller
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PC World joins the dark side:

Much of our discussion of Windows 9 has accepted the twin premises of marginalizing the desktop and pushing the new Modern interface. We're just being realistic. Microsoft clearly sees its future in the new interface, where it has greater control over the apps and Web services that people use. Though longtime PC users might find comfort in imagining a future where desktops get their own version of Windows, untainted by the Modern-style interface, in real life that ship has most likely sailed.

For Windows 9, Microsoft must leave the legacy Windows desktop behind once and for all, while at the same time converting the Windows masses to seeing the necessity of this step the company's way.

...

THEY ARE IN ON IT. WHO? THE SO CALLED "JOURNALISTS".

As I said in earlier posts, this is about them taking control over OUR devices. Lock, stock and barrel. See how they all suddenly together call the kindergarten interface for "modern" and the actual real useful interface for "legacy". It's all an Orwellian creep city.

Well, they forgot one thing... they need help... from... us... the developer community.

Brave new world they said hey? :realmad:

Good luck making me write an "app". I will rather change profession. DID YOU HEAR ME BALLMER? I rather wash cars than making an "app" for your LOCKED WALLED PRISON GARDEN.

To hell with Microsoft and these "journalists" which are nothing but propaganda machines these days. Be it in IT or politics.

Absolute filth. That's what they are and what they write.

EDIT: Interesting that the "article" has no signature. Who wrote this? Makes you wonder, doesn't it? :sneaky:

EDIT2: I saw that he wrote this "Jared Newman - @onejarednewman". It's obvious he knows which side of the bread is buttered on. Don't ya Jared? :hello:

Edited by ciHnoN
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Jared wrote a comment under the article, too:

The problem is that consumers--and, increasingly, businesses--are snapping up tablets, so desktop market share is on its way to irrelevance. Eventually, touting 91 percent desktop share won't be much different than saying 99.99 percent of non-GUI operating systems are DOS. It doesn't matter when most people have moved on. If Microsoft doesn't do something, it will become the niche player.

And I know, a little tablet screen isn't always enough for real work. But as tablets become more popular, people are going to expect and demand touch on every device they use. That's why I think Microsoft is in a great position to remake the desktop PC around touch.

Ya sure, Photoshop, CAD, programming, writing, designing, video production, audio production etc. etc. ALL WITH TOUCH! The f***!?

By the way, I don't think it's primarily about building Orwell with these "tech" journalists. Remember it's the same ones who touted just a few years ago that the Windows desktop will be replaced by Desktop Linux any minute. (like today, they never factored in applications like Photoshop into this equation) That got old, then it was they will all be converted to web "apps". That got old too. Now it's touch (and again they are acting as if all these applications could work with touch).

The only thing that's different this time is W8.. Microsoft is into this madness as well this time around.

Edited by Formfiller
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Jared wrote a comment under the article, too:

The problem is that consumers--and, increasingly, businesses--are snapping up tablets, so desktop market share is on its way to irrelevance. Eventually, touting 91 percent desktop share won't be much different than saying 99.99 percent of non-GUI operating systems are DOS. It doesn't matter when most people have moved on. If Microsoft doesn't do something, it will become the niche player.

And I know, a little tablet screen isn't always enough for real work. But as tablets become more popular, people are going to expect and demand touch on every device they use. That's why I think Microsoft is in a great position to remake the desktop PC around touch.

Ya sure, Photoshop, CAD, programming, writing, designing, video production, audio production etc. etc. ALL WITH TOUCH! The f***!?

By the way, I don't think it's primarily about building Orwell with these "tech" journalists. Remember it's the same ones who touted just a few years ago that the Windows desktop will be replaced by Desktop Linux any minute. (like today, they never factored in applications like Photoshop into this equation) That got old, then it was they will all be converted to web "apps". That got old too. Now it's touch (and again they are acting as if all these applications could work with touch).

The only thing that's different this time is W8.. Microsoft is into this madness as well this time around.

Sounds like Jared Newman is making a classic error in logic: that of projecting the current trend indefinitely into the future. It's like saying that, because the temperature rose 5 degrees from yesterday, 30 days from now it'll be 150 degrees hotter than today. :w00t:

Sure, tablets are popular now and getting more so -- for the time being. But, sooner or later, either everyone who wants a tablet will have one (market saturation), or The Next Big Thing will burst on the scene and pop the tablet bubble. (That's what tablets did to e-book readers, after all.)

Meanwhile, as folks in this thread and countless others elsewhere have pointed out, touch is not suitable for every form factor. Users who don't figure this out beforehand will discover it soon enough when they try it, ands then they'll realize that they're paying a premium for a feature that's worse than useless on desktop and laptop PCs. Therefore the appeal of "touch" will hit a granite ceiling. When it does, as you suggest, the plain ol' PC will still be there, patiently waiting for people to come back to get real work done.

--JorgeA

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PC World joins the dark side:

Much of our discussion of Windows 9 has accepted the twin premises of marginalizing the desktop and pushing the new Modern interface. We're just being realistic. Microsoft clearly sees its future in the new interface, where it has greater control over the apps and Web services that people use. Though longtime PC users might find comfort in imagining a future where desktops get their own version of Windows, untainted by the Modern-style interface, in real life that ship has most likely sailed.

For Windows 9, Microsoft must leave the legacy Windows desktop behind once and for all, while at the same time converting the Windows masses to seeing the necessity of this step the company's way.

...

THEY ARE IN ON IT. WHO? THE SO CALLED "JOURNALISTS".

As I said in earlier posts, this is about them taking control over OUR devices. Lock, stock and barrel. See how they all suddenly together call the kindergarten interface for "modern" and the actual real useful interface for "legacy". It's all an Orwellian creep city.

Nice catch! Good to keep focusing readers on this point.

Well, they forgot one thing... they need help... from... us... the developer community.

Brave new world they said hey? :realmad:

Good luck making me write an "app". I will rather change profession. DID YOU HEAR ME BALLMER? I rather wash cars than making an "app" for your LOCKED WALLED PRISON GARDEN.

To hell with Microsoft and these "journalists" which are nothing but propaganda machines these days. Be it in IT or politics.

Absolute filth. That's what they are and what they write.

That's a highly principled stand you've taken, and I applaud you for it! :thumbup

Let's hope (and work) so it doesn't have to come to that...

--JorgeA

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Few more articles just popped up at NeoWin so I'd figure I'd mention them before we get wiped out by the snowstorm up here in the Northeast ( looks like we are in for a real bad week and we can expect to lose power for some time ). Wish us luck because we're gonna need it. Update: most recent report has us in for 20" in the next 24 hours, and then 5 degree F temps following that. Ugggh. See you on the other side of this thing, hopefully!

Hope you made it through the storm OK. Around here, everything outside is covered in white, but we're going to miss the worst of it, it looks like.

Now, for your welcome-back reading pleasure ;) , another lukewarm Surface Pro review:

Some users may not mind the price or bulk of the Surface Pro if it frees them from carrying a tablet for some uses and a laptop for others. But like many products that try to be two things at once, the new Surface Windows 8 Pro does neither as well as those designed for one function.

--JorgeA

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Sounds like Jared Newman is making a classic error in logic: that of projecting the current trend indefinitely into the future. It's like saying that, because the temperature rose 5 degrees from yesterday, 30 days from now it'll be 150 degrees hotter than today. :w00t:

Well said my friend. :thumbup

I believe there are multiple overlapping types of personality disorders we see in these debates whom make up what we call the MicroZealots and MetroTards. One of the most numerous and vocal are the childish Narcissists, forever locked in selfish thought processes that allow them to blurt out things about killing XP, the Start Menu, Aero and all manner of features that "they can do without". This type of person grows up to semi-adulthood and will be the kind that insists on sobriety for everyone else when they stop drinking. The narcissist loves to dictate to others, so naturally something like Windows 8 and Metro sets off their congenital arrogance resulting in chronic MetroTardia. Another personality disorder is that of the terminally Jealous. Many of them are so overcome with Apple-envy and Google-envy it pours out of them at the slightest provocation resulting in Tourette's Syndrome outbursts attacking commenters as being Apple or Google trolls ( ironic because the people that most want to save Windows are neither of those things, but I digress ). Yet another personality disorder is that of the Natural Born Slave. These mental patients have the malleability of silly putty and will often self-identify themselves through comments about us 'being unable to accept the future' or 'unable to adapt' ... ad nauseum. They're especially funny because they would have a nervous breakdown if their kid came home with an Ubuntu disc and changed their Windows machine to Linux thereby exposing their hypocrisy as being resistant to change :yes: ( I call this the Mojave'nix Experiment, using the theme of the coffee commercial: 'Shhhh, we've changed his coffee computer to Ubuntu ..." :lol: ) In a recent NeoWin article ( GameStop: Gamers won't buy next Xbox if it blocks used games ) they show up and rather than criticize Microsoft for the rumored lock-down of the next Xbox that might thwart the user from re-selling the games they purchase, the MicroSlaves dutifully march in lock-step chanting "Heil Microsoft". There are even more identifiable malcontents making up this unholy alliance of MetroTards and MicroZealots, some are just Softies or wannabe Softies with no common sense or moral compass for when Microsoft oversteps their bounds. And there are even more still. One thing they all have in common is that they didn't learn a thing from Vista, instead hunkering down into a bunker mentality considering everyone but themselves as wrong. There will be much entertainment value to be had from a major Microsoft fail with Windows 8 and Metro and other possible scenarios. Watch their heads explode if Microsoft restores the start menu and desktop to Windows 7 appearance and functionality! Or when Ballmer gets his pink slip. Or if Blackberry beats WP8. Lots of pain in the future for these folks.

Now back to this incredible farce. Broadly speaking, at least since the 1970's we have always had three main categories of computers: Servers, Terminals and Workstations, the latter being a hybrid of the former two, rare in the early days but established and quickly advancing to prominence in the 1980's and beyond with IBM, Microsoft and the x86 universe of the "personal computer". Fast forward to today, the only real difference now is that "Terminals" have expanded to becoming "Portable" devices with some added "Workstation" ability ( cue Paul Thurrott trying to replace his workstation with a portable :lol: ). The other two categories remain very similar in concept except for being far more powerful.

Then --- Now

Servers ... Servers

Terminals ... Portables

Workstations ... Workstations

No-one really would have complained if Microsoft specifically targeted "Terminals / Portables" with some creative operating system, even Windows 8 and Metro would have been a fine idea sans the "Windows" label ( "Microsoft Tiles" as the operating system name for portables would have been perfect ). This new product in addition to "Windows Server" and also "Windows Workstation" would be a perfectly logical set of SKUs. However, trying to merge the three different obvious operating systems into one, while falsely describing it as a convenience for the user when it is really only a convenience for Microsoft, is beyond laughable, it is evil. This is the most cynical thing they could have done and it must fail for the good of everybody. Out of reckless desperation they are really pushing all the monopolistic buttons now, it is IMHO a far greater crime than done by the past robber barons as I have repeatedly opined in earlier comments. That's the moral and ethical criticism. But there is also the obvious knuckleheaded implementation of such a crazy idea. I repeat, whatever they wanted to sell as a standalone MetroTard operating system for mobile devices ( Terminals ) would have been just peachy for most of us. But look at some examples of what their ReTard operating system results in when shoehorned into the completely separate issues of Servers and Workstations ...

irc4dtT.jpg

Server 2012 ( original image )

EUzTBfq.jpg

WinZip ( original image )

This is the inevitable result of hammering square pegs into round holes. It is beyond ridiculous now. It is simply ludicrous. Wake up people! You know they are nuts when they make Mac OS look attractive.

EDIT: typo, updated image URLs, and again

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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Hope you made it through the storm OK. Around here, everything outside is covered in white, but we're going to miss the worst of it, it looks like.

As I type this, it has been snowing for 13 hours and I just measured 12" of snow. According to the latest we are in for another 8 hours and should hit close to 20". The wind is now just kicking up and that is what usually causes falling trees and blackouts. I am hoping we get lucky but I am realistic and will assume power loss at any moment. But thanks for the concern!

How much snow did you get? I'm just above NYC and one snow band away from the worst of it ( to the East in Conn and Boston ).

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And MSFN gets a nice mention on a major tech news site:

Get Aero back in Windows 8

:thumbup

--JorgeA

Commentard there:

http://betanews.com/2013/02/08/get-aero-back-in-windows-8/#comment-792795300

Because of the way this hack works it means the author can pretty much do anything he wants like, take screenshots of your banking information and other PII, if he wanted to. How much did the author of this malware pay you to write this piece of s*** article?

Lovable.

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here will be much entertainment value to be had from a major Microsoft fail with Windows 8 and Metro and other possible scenarios. Watch their heads explode if Microsoft restores the start menu and desktop to Windows 7 appearance and functionality! Or when Ballmer gets his pink slip. Or if Blackberry beats WP8. Lots of pain in the future for these folks.

I would love to see these little rascals having a meltdown but I wouldn't count on this. They are the prototypical "Oceania was never at war with.." drones. Some of them will be confused at first, but I am sure that if MS really will paddle back, they will change tune within the minute:

"WHAT?! You're still using the metro screen? Stop living in the past, the iPad wannabe GUI is history. They have improved the start menu in Windows 9 and you id*** are still lumbing around with this Fail8 toy-touch interface? Get with the times!"

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Regarding the new Xbox plans, I just "love" this comment:

http://www.neowin.net/news/gamestop-gamers-wont-buy-next-xbox-if-it-blocks-used-games#comment-2095101

Fullblown narcissist.

I don't think it will hurt Microsoft nearly as much as it will GameStop if this occurs, and to me it sounds like they're just afraid of their business going under because their money is in ripping people off on trade-ins and selling them at 10x the price. I honestly hope and pray they do go this route and never look back. Screw GameStop and their scam of a business. Retail game outlets are useless anyway. Last time I was in GameStop was only because I had a gift card and wanted to blow it on a game that I could attach to my steam account because I don't like to keep track of discs. That game was COD: Black Ops.... After it was activated on steam, it made it's way right to the trash can. I didn't even bother installing it from the disc since download times were nothing on our 150mbps connection at the time. When I was at the store, the woman behind the counter tried to get me to join their stupid club... When I refused, I was given the runaround and a bullsh!t story on why I should join. When I said I buy all my games online from steam, it pretty much angered her and she continued to tell me that it wasn't the same as buying games in store.... **** right it's not the same.. I can buy a steam game from my couch the day it comes out without wasting gas or time driving anywhere to bring home a useless physical disc.

Yea, right, everyone has a 150mbps connection. I like download-only content, everyone else must love it too.

Edited by Formfiller
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