JorgeA

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

6,162 posts in this topic

JFYI, this topic has outgrown its original purpose and has become a catch-all for various related news articles and reactions/discussions. I will leave it open for now, but its life is running out.

But that's precisely what's great about this wild and woolly thread! :)

It certainly has developed over time. Because Microsoft insists on foisting the same uniform UI on users of all of its devices, what started as a critique of Windows 8 specifically grew out to WOA/RT and the Windows Phone, and from there has come to (also, but not only) encompass what's wrong with Microsoft. If the topics get split off mandatorily, they will each become that much less prominent.

Not to mention the fact that this thread is a running time-capsule snapshot-in-time of the Windows 8 and Metro Beta2 >> RTM >> Oblivion chronology. :lol:

It really is a good use of the concept of forum "threads", being able to later traverse past events as they happened. Not all threads need to be focused and closed or "solved", having 99% of them managed that way is fine, but not all.

The only thing I regret is that "First Impressions" and "Deeper Impressions" weren't one continuous flow, perhaps just "Impressions". But that horse left the barn long ago!

Hmmm.

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Maybe we could start a petition here ;) :

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/

"Please don't cannibalize this poor thread on MSFN"

I guess an initial target of 180 signatures could be adequate. :angel

Now that's funny right there!

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500px-Windows_8_logo_and_wordmark.svg.png

500px-Windows_logo_and_watermark_-_1985.svg.png

I can honestly say that the Windows 1.0x logo is much more attractive than Windows Code Blue.

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Wait, if rendering complex page layouts is faster now in general with IE 10, why would "the new MSN" profit from that so much? That page is LESS complex (screenshot) in layout due to the metro design than the sites they compare it with (ESPN, CNN). The only reason it's faster is because it's actually SIMPLER than those. But they want to imply it's faster because it's more complex or something!

Hm, I hadn't actually seen the MSN page. The article thumbnail is too small. MSN8 has the same information density problems as Windows 8 and Office 2013. Not a surprise I guess. Without borders, it's hard on the eye to determine flow. There's not enough text on the screen to make obvious "blocks", and it's not justified which exasperates the problem.

"Sign this petition to have MSFN mods split the abnormally long and substantially OT topic into n threads AND get rid of HalloweenDocument12 as collateral damage"

Then you won't have Nixon to kick around anymore. Do you really want Gerald Ford?

About the "speed test", the actual study (page 18):

http://www.principledtechnologies.com/Microsoft/MSN_loadtime_1112.pdf.

fails to provide the actual script that was used.

For all we know httpwatchscript.psl could contain (WARNING: PseudoCode):

IF NOT %siteurl% CONTAINS "msn.com" SLEEP %random%*200

On the topic, why'd they use PowerShell? I thought it was supposed to be an independent study. Is PowerShell really the best tool for the job?

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If my opinion matters, I would likely cease visiting were this topic shut down. At this point, this thread is effectively a sub-forum. I was reading along for weeks before I decided to join. While discussion isn't on-topic with the thread title, it is consistent within itself, if that makes any sense. What happened is that "deeper analysis" lead to spilling over from Windows 8 to Microsoft's current corporate strategy, how they got there, and where they are likely to go. Reading the topic for some time, it has flowed naturally, which I think is much of the appeal.

Well, I for one wouldn't want to see you drop out, you're one of the new players who've reinvigorated the thread with additional perspectives (sorry for not including you on the list earlier, I suspected that it wasn't complete and I was in a rush).

--JorgeA

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This thread will go down in history as one of the great threads in all time. I'm sure of it. They will look back and call all the contributors to this thread enlightened beings.

Frankly, you guys made me feel at home for once. For the longest time I had given up hope for humanity but little did I know that sane true humans still exist! I'm serious.

It also inspired me to start foolsdesign.org.

I have the highest respect for everyone who has contributed to this thead. :wub:

I wish I could buy you all a nice cold one! :D

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I'm very glad that this thread has made a difference for you. That's one of the values it's come to serve. And I'd be willing to wager that this thread is the most extensive and wide-ranging critique of Windows 8 and of Microsoft's corporate strategy anywhere on the Internet.

Cheers!

--JorgeA

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500px-Windows_8_logo_and_wordmark.svg.png

Dear Microsoft, sorry to nitpick, but I just noticed a mistake in that Windows 8 logo.

If that is really meant to show perspective, the horizontal line in the blue Window panes should be tapered thinner to thicker from left to right.

As it stands, the blue Window is tapered for faux-perspective with a normal "+" sign superimposed. So just who was the child using Microsoft Paint that scarfed up this contract? And they paid what?

EDIT: clarity

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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500px-Windows_8_logo_and_wordmark.svg.png

500px-Windows_logo_and_watermark_-_1985.svg.png

I can honestly say that the Windows 1.0x logo is much more attractive than Windows Code Blue.

The first logo, is supposed to show when the insanity really started to kick in. With the great great great one which you pointed out about the faulty horizontal line which should be thinner.

The Windows "Blue"... it's showing when they go completely deranged, see how the lines are now screwed up? :D :D :D:angel

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Microsoft's attempts to clarify Office licensing policies fall short ( Ed Bott ZDNet 2013-02-22 )

He!! has frozen over. Ed Bott criticizes Microsoft over the Office licensing fiasco and their lame attempts at "clarity" ( related stories linked above ). He zeroes in on a couple of things that haven't got a lot of attention. Specifically this thing about what happens when the PC dies or is lost to theft or fire, to which Microsoft offers an absolutely crazy attempt at a new responsibility-shifting precedent: "An exception is granted when the software is on a PC that is replaced under warranty." Say what? :blink: What does a computer warranty have to do with Microsoft? Nothing. Not only that, what do you mean by "exception"? They're saying they will only do something to benefit the paying customer in only the rarest of circumstances? This is clearly an attempt to get the sheeple used to reduced responsibility from Microsoft, to officially lower customer expectations. Trust me, later they will reduce them further and further.

Note that it has also been suggested in comments by some MicroZealots that in the case of fire or theft a person can simply call the insurance company, instead of Microsoft, no worries mate!. Again, Say what? :blink: The latter case is obviously the thought process of basement-dwelling children who do not have the slightest clue about how insurance works and the consequences to your premiums of trying to collect for damages, even when perfectly legitimate. However, this too is a distraction. No-one is even asking for money or material from Microsoft. The remedy to make the customer whole again is neither of those things. It is only to legally re-activate the friggin software, and perhaps provide a downloadable installer! The problem is on their end, not ours. What they are actually doing is tightening the activation procedure from the old days. Instead of improving the experience that many angry legitimate customers underwent with Windows XP and Office XP who made the phone call, explained the situation and got re-activated or a new code, they are worsening it! They simply altered it to "Sorry, no re-activation!" They have actually found a way to make things worse!

Ed Bott also discusses an interesting past event, a stunningly Orwellian example of attempted manipulation of the historical record ...

If the BSA ever kicked down your door and accused you of violating your license agreement because you couldn’t prove that your Office licenses were attached to the original PC on which they were installed, you could pay your lawyers to bring this blog post to the attention of the judge trying the case. Of course, that assumes that Microsoft doesn’t change its mind and remove or edit this post later.

That’s not just a paranoid assumption on my part. It’s an exact summary of what Microsoft did with its OEM license terms for Windows several years ago, where it published an exception to the license terms for “hobbyists” and then, a few years later, “deliberately and methodically scrubbed all traces of those documents from the web.” Go read that story and then spot the parallels with this situation.

Whoa! :blink:

Has any company in history ever viewed their customers with such contempt? It's as if they have a task force charged with scouring all aspects of the business to identify areas where the customer is treated fairly and then reverse it with extreme prejudice. :lol:

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Microsoft secure Azure Storage goes down WORLDWIDE. Looks like Redmond forgot to renew a security certificate... ( UK Register 2013-02-22 )

Windows Azure storage issue: Expired HTTPS certificate possibly at fault ( Mary Jo Foley ZDNet 2013-02-22 )

Windows Azure suffers yet another extended outage ( NeoWin 2013-02-23 )

Update: 3pm

It appears that Azure is in the grip of a global cascading fail.

The storage problems have severely impacted other key components of the Azure cloud, including some of the services Microsoft has previously used to differentiate itself from arch-rival Amazon Web services.

The Windows Azure Service Bus, which helps pass information between different parts of the megacloud; Azure Web Sites, which offers easy-peasy hosting; Access Control 2.0; and the windowsazure.com website itself have all been hit by “service degradation.”

What more is there to say really?

wvqxmbF.jpg

EDIT: added link, new picture URL

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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500px-Windows_8_logo_and_wordmark.svg.png

Dear Microsoft, sorry to nitpick, but I just noticed a mistake in that Windows 8 logo.

If that is really meant to show perspective, the horizontal line in the blue Window panes should be tapered thinner to thicker from left to right.

As it stands, the blue Window is tapered for faux-perspective with a normal "+" sign superimposed. So just who was the child using Microsoft Paint that scarfed up this contract? And they paid what?

You just don't get it, do ya? ;) Perspective -- or anything that's evocative of the real world, like 3D depth graphical elements -- is skeuomorphism and must be banished!!!

(Incidentally, make sure to check out the section, "The Limits of Flat" in that long and generally fair discussion I linked to.)

--JorgeA

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Ed Bott also discusses an interesting past event, a stunningly Orwellian example of attempted manipulation of the historical record ...

If the BSA ever kicked down your door and accused you of violating your license agreement because you couldnt prove that your Office licenses were attached to the original PC on which they were installed, you could pay your lawyers to bring this blog post to the attention of the judge trying the case. Of course, that assumes that Microsoft doesnt change its mind and remove or edit this post later.

Thats not just a paranoid assumption on my part. Its an exact summary of what Microsoft did with its OEM license terms for Windows several years ago, where it published an exception to the license terms for hobbyists and then, a few years later, deliberately and methodically scrubbed all traces of those documents from the web. Go read that story and then spot the parallels with this situation.

Man, oh man -- the parallels to "1984" do keep coming. This is an exact, digital-era version of the memory hole.

Wow.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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Windows 7 still being sold on up to 93% of British PCs

His customers quickly began to specify systems with Windows 7, and said Windows 8 customers "took delivery and wanted to change back to Windows 7" – a process Redford described as a "nightmare".

Redford changed the default installation from Windows 8 to Windows 7 and now offers both systems on all of his machines. Redford is also "considering offering an open source Start menu [for Windows 8] with an option to disable the Start screen" as a free option for his customers.

Redford's Computer Planet isn't the only British firm struggling with the launch of Windows 8. One company told us that of the 1,459 machines it's sold so far in 2013, only 7% have left the factory with Windows 8 installed.

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Ed Bott also discusses an interesting past event, a stunningly Orwellian example of attempted manipulation of the historical record ...

If the BSA ever kicked down your door and accused you of violating your license agreement because you couldn’t prove that your Office licenses were attached to the original PC on which they were installed, you could pay your lawyers to bring this blog post to the attention of the judge trying the case. Of course, that assumes that Microsoft doesn’t change its mind and remove or edit this post later.

That’s not just a paranoid assumption on my part. It’s an exact summary of what Microsoft did with its OEM license terms for Windows several years ago, where it published an exception to the license terms for “hobbyists” and then, a few years later, “deliberately and methodically scrubbed all traces of those documents from the web.” Go read that story and then spot the parallels with this situation.

Man, oh man -- the parallels to "1984" do keep coming. This is an exact, digital-era version of the memory hole.

Wow.

--JorgeA

As I always said..w8 is nothing more than a w3.11..full of gapes.

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The first logo, is supposed to show when the insanity really started to kick in. With the great great great one which you pointed out about the faulty horizontal line which should be thinner.

I would never have noticed except for that juxtaposition that Formfiller did where the geometry of the windows pane lines lined up so nicely ...

500px-Windows_8_logo_and_wordmark.svg.png

500px-Windows_logo_and_watermark_-_1985.svg.png

Obviously the child drew a blue rectangle, applied a perspective and then pasted a normal "+" plus sign. I wonder what Microsoft paid him?

You just don't get it, do ya? ;) Perspective -- or anything that's evocative of the real world, like 3D depth graphical elements -- is skeuomorphism and must be banished!!!

(Incidentally, make sure to check out the section, "The Limits of Flat" in that long and generally fair discussion I linked to.)

You're right! :thumbup My bad, I was thinking old school!

EDIT: typos

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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