JorgeA

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

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For those considering making the switch to perpetual rent "cloud" computing, be careful what you write, lest it get deleted by your landlord cloud service provider.

This particular case of course has to do with e-mail, which no one has as yet figured out how to send and receive without entering cyberspace. But it serves as a warning against putting ever more of our stuff in the cloud: If it's not in your possession, you don't control it!

Delighted with the prospect of Google Docs or Office 364 scanning your documents for forbidden phrases?

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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Wow, I just went to that site and now it's saying 2.67%.

you have to add the 0.1% of Win8 on touch devices (x86 tablets, AIO PCs with touch) and the 0.02% for RT.

Whoops, you're right! :blushing: I totally forgot about them.

--JorgeA

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I do not understand why the frequent posters to this previously lively thread have gotten so offended by the thread being moved to have seemingly abandoned it to let it die. If they are not going to post here any more, as a last hurrah I would really appreciate it if they would make one final post explaining their reasons. As of now, it seems that the reason is just "Because they moved the thread when we told them not to!" That seems rather petty. If that is the only reason, I just can't understand why that is such a big deal. I can understand being upset with the temporary closure, and that was unfortunate, and IMO wrong, but that has been corrected, so why can't they continue as they were? Has MSFN been added to the same ranks of evil doers as MS and is there now a thread somewhere else where all of MSFN's mistakes are lambasted that someone can point me to?

I can't speak for anyone except for myself, but participating in a thread with a Sword of Damacles hanging over it is distracting, which might be the whole intent. So in a way Jorge is right, whoever the butthurt Softies are should claim victory.

I just checked back in after a couple of days, and even as I type this the problems are still here. What is allowed? What was off-topic? What is now considered off-topic? Do any of you know? Since getting to the bottom of this fiasco is apparently verboten ( they locked the only thread where we started to get a couple answers ) does anyone even know what can be discussed anymore? For example ...

Well we made concessions to put this topic here. ;)

... with no further explanation, here or in private. We're apparently supposed to be mind readers I guess. What I want to ask is: concessions to who, and why, but I guess I shouldn't bother lest its gets snipped or something.

It has nothing to do with a thread being moved ( it was killed, remember? ). And I disagree with your wording, there is nothing "petty" about free speech, and heck, it's not like we're talking politics or religion here ( okay, MicroZealots are definitely religious )., that's when the fur really flies.

I'm never gonna compare "MSFN" to "evil-doers" because it is larger than whatever "evil-doer" might have infiltrated its staff and put their own petty agenda above that of the Site itself. That's what irks me. Troublemakers making trouble where there was none.

376px-Damocles-WestallPC20080120-8842A.jpg

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I just checked back in after a couple of days, and even as I type this the problems are still here. What is allowed? What was off-topic? What is now considered off-topic? Do any of you know? Since getting to the bottom of this fiasco is apparently verboten ( they locked the only thread where we started to get a couple answers ) does anyone even know what can be discussed anymore? For example ...

Well we made concessions to put this topic here. ;)

... with no further explanation, here or in private. We're apparently supposed to be mind readers I guess. What I want to ask is: concessions to who, and why, but I guess I shouldn't bother lest its gets snipped or something.

I'd suggest that we continue carrying on exactly the sort of discussion about Windows 8, and its consequences and implications, that we were having before the thread got moved. Then we'll learn what the limits are, if any -- if the thread gets shut down permanently, we'll know for sure that the problem wasn't simply going off-topic in a technical subforum; while if the thread gets to go on unmolested, then we'll know that everything's cool now.

Quitting at this point would merely hand to any possible Softies the victory they'd like. Let them show their cards.

Good to see you here. Let 'er rip!!! :yes:

--JorgeA

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How do other people (that means you who are reading this ;) ) come to visit the thread?

I take the lazy approach and enter the forum here, that always shows me all new posts that have occurred over a time frame I can choose, no matter where in the forum the posts are.

That's pretty neat. B) I didn't even know you could do that!

I come in mainly by getting automated notifications of new posts in the threads that I subscribe to, and secondarily by then looking around once I'm done with the new posts.

Your way should not make a difference which subforum the thread is in. As long as people keep posting, it'll keep showing up. :thumbup

--JorgeA

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Over here in Blighty, there is a weekly computer mag (Micro Mart) . This week's edition has an article about failed hardware,.

Guess what is the final "entity" ?

Microsoft Surface!!

OK they say it may be premature but the way Microsoft are not exactly shouting from the rafters speaks volumes

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Charlotte, it seems to me that you are the one that is "making trouble where there was none". Ever since the original posts that threatened the closure of the thread your posts have become more and more inflammatory in nature. Are you trying to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt? Why? What benefit are statements like these to you, the other board members and visitors, or the staff?

... participating in a thread with a Sword of Damacles hanging over it is distracting ...

... the problems are still here. What is allowed? What was off-topic? What is now considered off-topic? Do any of you know? ...

... does anyone even know what can be discussed anymore? ...

... there is nothing "petty" about free speech ...

... it is larger than whatever "evil-doer" might have infiltrated its staff and put their own petty agenda above that of the Site itself ...

Yes, IMO the staff screwed up by threatening, and following through with, the closure of the thread. So what? It's been fixed and reopened. (How long should someone give you a hard time about any mistake that you make?) Nothing was deleted, no one was banned, no one was threatened, nothing was censured. The only thing that happened was that it was moved. Period. And I think the move was way overdue. The thread got special treatment by having the move delayed far longer than any other thread on this board could have gotten away with.

What problems do you feel are still here? Most of your comments are about "off-topic", "what can be discussed", " free speech" etc. And all of those are what contributed to the thread being moved. Why was it moved? Because the thread began in the technical section of the forum to discuss and expose the details in operation and function of Windows 8. While there were occasional positive comments about features that someone liked, most of the comments were criticizing design decisions that had been made about either functions, or lack of them, or the user interface. Posts were made about ways to get around perceived roadblocks, or just open complaints, some hoping that someone at MS would hear our cries and come to their senses and fix these "obvious" mistakes. So far so good, and all on topic. But once it became evident that our posts weren't doing any other good than allowing us to vent our frustrations, make fun of MS in their apparent misguided efforts to get a bigger piece of the tablet and phone markets, and act as a lightning rod to gather together others that were just as outraged as we were in how MS screwed up the desktop OS, the thread quickly expanded to compare the mistakes we saw happening in Windows 8 to other mistakes we saw occurring throughout MS, such as in Windows Phone, RT, Surface, marketing in general, inflating sales figures, comparing sales to that of Windows 7 or Vista, etc. Yes, they are indeed all "related" to Windows 8, if for no other reason that MS has seemed to put all there eggs in one basket and all hardware and software the company is currently involved with has something to do with Windows 8. So yes, the thread is cohesive in that sense. But what percentage of the posts have anything to do with the original intent to discuss the the technical operation and function of Windows 8? Some of the posts don't even mention Windows 8 specifically at all.

So the thread was moved to a more general topic area, clumsily, but bottom line it was just moved.

There was no censure, free speech was not involved, there was not an issue about what can or cannot be discussed, there was no petty agenda of any staff member that I am aware of, there was no outside influence or pressure. How much more to the bottom of this do you need to get?

Yes, the "What Happened" thread was locked, Maybe it shouldn't have been, but I'm not sure what else you wanted to get out of that thread. After all, that whole thread could be considered a violation of Rule 8. And I guess that is the only Sword of Damacles hanging over anyone's head, the one that has always been there of being banned, which usually occurs due to lack of respect shown to either other members and/or the staff. But the staff left that thread alone for a while, attempted to respond to some of the posts, and maybe that thread was what caused them to reconsider the closing of the thread and reopen it. And even if the thread is now locked, it was not deleted.

So I think the fears you have expressed are unfounded and overblown.

Charlotte, I like you, I respect you and I have thoroughly enjoyed reading your posts. You have a lot of experience and knowledge and you have done a marvelous job of gathering information and summarizing it succinctly in a very readable fashion. Your posts have been enlightening, thought provoking, and entertaining. You have helped inspire others to participate, and you are right that members and their participation are the lifeblood of any forum. I sincerely hope we can all get beyond this and do as JorgeA suggests:

I'd suggest that we continue carrying on exactly the sort of discussion about Windows 8, and its consequences and implications, that we were having before the thread got moved. Then we'll learn what the limits are, if any -- if the thread gets shut down permanently, we'll know for sure that the problem wasn't simply going off-topic in a technical subforum; while if the thread gets to go on unmolested, then we'll know that everything's cool now.

Quitting at this point would merely hand to any possible Softies the victory they'd like. Let them show their cards.

Good to see you here. Let 'er rip!!! :yes:

--JorgeA

Cheers and Regards

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How do other people (that means you who are reading this ;) ) come to visit the thread?

I take the lazy approach and enter the forum here, that always shows me all new posts that have occurred over a time frame I can choose, no matter where in the forum the posts are.

That's pretty neat. B) I didn't even know you could do that!

I come in mainly by getting automated notifications of new posts in the threads that I subscribe to, and secondarily by then looking around once I'm done with the new posts.

Your way should not make a difference which subforum the thread is in. As long as people keep posting, it'll keep showing up. :thumbup

--JorgeA

Yep, that's the idea. :)

Cheers and Regards

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Everyone But Apple And Samsung Is In A Sad Race For Third Place

Microsoft never professed to aiming for third place, but the article writer can't even remember to mention them (or Nokia) when talking about competitive smartphone manufacturers. Remember, recent events are an "all-in" for this precious mobile market. Microsoft should be included in every single article on the subject, along with Apple and Samsung, but since no one is taking them seriously, they're below the likes of BlackBerry, HTC, and LG.

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Yeah. MS's advertising efforts to have sellebrities hawk Windows phones and flashy TV spots for Surface, both in the US, don't seem to be having much effect that I have seen.

This probably doesn't help either: (This might be dated, I don't know if this is still an issue or not.)

We’ve previously heard that Google wasn’t planning on developing Gmail or any of its other apps for Microsoft’s Windows 8 platform. However, the search engine giant is also reportedly blocking a full-featured YouTube app from debuting on the Windows-themed OS as well.

Microsoft said on Wednesday that Google executives are preventing the Redmond, Washington-based company from offering “proper access to YouTube.” Dave Heiner, Vice President and Deputy General Counsel for Microsoft, revealed this news through a blog post, acknowledging the importance of offering the video streaming app on mobile devices.

“This is an important issue because consumers value YouTube access on their phone,” Heiner wrote. “Yet Google still refuses to allow Windows Phone users to have the same access to YouTube as Android and Apple customers enjoy. Microsoft has continued to engage with YouTube personnel over the past two years to remedy this problem for consumers.”

This drama surrounding YouTube isn’t a new obstacle for Microsoft, as the executive revealed that the company has been struggling to resolve this issue for the past two years. As it stands, the YouTube app for Windows Phone is merely a limited version of the streaming service, considering Google doesn’t allow Microsoft access to YouTube’s full APIs.

Cheers and Regards

Edited by bphlpt
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Microsoft never professed to aiming for third place, but the article writer can't even remember to mention them (or Nokia) when talking about competitive smartphone manufacturers.

Wow, that tells you something, doesn't it. Microsoft doesn't rate even a mention in a discussion of the smartphone market.

--JorgeA

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I don't know enough about that issue to comment, but I have to wonder what relation it might have to the "Scroogled" campaign. The latter could be a reaction by Microsoft to Google's YouTube foot-dragging. For sure, "Scroogled" isn't giving the Google folks any warm, fuzzy feelings about helping out on the YouTube score.

--JorgeA

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Over here in Blighty, there is a weekly computer mag (Micro Mart) . This week's edition has an article about failed hardware,.

Guess what is the final "entity" ?

Microsoft Surface!!

OK they say it may be premature but the way Microsoft are not exactly shouting from the rafters speaks volumes

Thanks, I can't wait to see the article posted on their website. (At least, I couldn't find it.) I know that many publications hold off for a while before putting their paid print material online for free.

However, looking around the site I did find this interesting analysis.

Another issue for Windows 8 to overcome was the negative aura that started to circulate about the preview versions in respect of the interface, once called ‘Metro’. From the outset, lots of people didn’t like the most radical change that Microsoft made to the Windows model. It didn’t help that Microsoft didn’t really explain its thinking behind the tiled interface or how the ‘Metro’ side of the coin and the conventional desktop were designed to coexist. In fact, it now seems apparent that they’re not really made to cooperate on any level, and what Microsoft was offering was akin to having two operating systems on one computer. That’s confusing and people don’t see bewilderment as desirable.
(emphasis added)

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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what Microsoft was offering was akin to having two operating systems on one computer.

If Windows 8 is less disorienting than a virtual machine, it's only slightly so.

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I just came across this thread on another forum, discussing Windows 8, and it provides a link to this provocative new article:

Windows 8 uptake falls even farther behind Vista

The whole article (which isn't all that long) is worth reading. A couple of highlights:

Windows 8's uptake pace slowed in February for the third straight month, an analytics company said today.
Windows 8's share increase in February was about four-tenths of a percentage point, smaller than January's gain, which in turn was smaller than either December's or November's.

The new operating system also fell further behind the pace set by Windows Vista in 2007: In its fourth month of availability, Vista powered approximately 4% of all Windows PCs. The full percentage point gap between Windows 8 and Vista was the largest so far in the tracking Computerworld has conducted.

(emphasis added)

--JorgeA

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