JorgeA

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

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I know someone who has one of those. He reckons it is remarkably good considering.

Not sure how many will pitch in that low, but I can't fathom why MS didn't try and get a decent presence in the $200--300 range.

Good question. One theory is that they were trying to replicate the Apple model. Kind of a silly idea, as Apple is a bit of a cult whose followers appear to be willing to shell out almost any amount so long as it has a half-eaten fruit stamped on it somewhere.

I know someone who has one of those. He reckons it is remarkably good considering.

Perhaps it wouldn't make much difference. The buyers don't seem to have an interest in win 8 - almost irrespective of price.

So far, that does seem to be the bottom line!

--JorgeA

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There is sooo much moronic stuff: http://www.foolsdesi...ewforum.php?f=1 that list is growing. :D

...I also found a real fitting picture for the shouting caps, http://www.foolsdesi...ic.php?f=1&t=46 ...that is how Office is yelling at you. *lol* WARNING: The picture can affect your mood.

Ugh, that picture WAS disturbing! :ph34r:

This is one of my favorite items: http://www.foolsdesi...c.php?f=1&t=43. It's as if somebody took the Office design templates and left them out in the sun for a month -- all washed out. Try looking at that on your screen for 8 hours a day. What were they thinking?? ...Oh yeah, they forgot the thinking part.

You are doing fantastic work over there, BTW -- very visual, gets the point across directly. :thumbup

--JorgeA

Thanks! :) More advertisement money will be spend soon so hopefully a lot of people will see it. I bet many are p***ed off at MS because of it. :D

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Pretty amazing -- thanks for the link!

The latest little brouhaha involves the seemingly harsh words of Jun Dong-soo, the president of Samsung's memory-chip division.

He seems to believe that Windows 8 really isn't terribly good. Indeed, as The Korea Times has it, he said: "I think the Windows 8 system is no better than the previous Windows Vista platform."

Posing as a man who does not sit on fences, he said: "MS's rollout of its Windows Surface tablet is seeing lackluster demand."

There must be real trouble behind the scenes, when your own partners are badmouthing you in the open.

--JorgeA

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Can anyone comment on this?

In another recent episode of "Security Now!", Steve and Leo discuss a new encryption app for the iPhone and iPad which is said to be "uncrackable" to the point where governments might lean on Apple not to offer it. And then there was the last comment in the following passage, almost as an aside:

Yes. And so the problem is, what do we do here? Here's - they're making a lot of noise about the fact that this is uncrackable. The fact is, everybody's encryption is uncrackable. You just may not be able to use it because the government will say no, or someone will put some pressure on Apple, and they'll remove it from the app store, and it'll vaporize off of everyone's iOS devices because we know Apple has the ability to do that, too.
(emphasis added)

So, what I'd like to know is -- is it true that Apple (or the other curator of any other online app store, like, say, for example, umm... Microsoft) has the technical capability to simply zap a program that you downloaded from the store and installed on your own device??

If so, that would be yet another reason to be leery of these app store "walled gardens."

--JorgeA

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So, what I'd like to know is -- is it true that Apple (or the other curator of any other online app store, like, say, for example, umm... Microsoft) has the technical capability to simply zap a program that you downloaded from the store and installed on your own device??

If so, that would be yet another reason to be leery of these app store "walled gardens."

--JorgeA

For Apple iOS it is a concrete possibility, you can even remotely wipe a device (this is "technology at final user level") :

http://support.apple.com/kb/ph2701

http://osxdaily.com/2012/06/05/remote-wipe-iphone-or-ipad/

let alone what the Apple Store can do centrally.

And we do have the known examples of the e-books wiped :w00t: in 2009:

http://boingboing.net/2009/07/30/high-school-student-1.html

and now also of users:

http://boingboing.net/2012/10/22/kindle-user-claims-amazon-dele.html

Cannot say about Windows 8 (the real OS) but it is VERY LIKELY that Windows RT may have this same "feature" IMHO, see:

http://www.neowin.net/news/windows-8-apps-can-be-deleted-remotely-by-microsoft

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9222518/Microsoft_We_can_remotely_delete_Windows_8_apps

For the record, Android may be not-so-different :ph34r: .

jaclaz

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Cannot say about Windows 8 (the real OS) but it is VERY LIKELY that Windows RT may have this same "feature" IMHO, see:

http://www.neowin.net/news/windows-8-apps-can-be-deleted-remotely-by-microsoft

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9222518/Microsoft_We_can_remotely_delete_Windows_8_apps

Thanks very much, jaclaz. That IS disturbing. In the article from the second link, it says:

Microsoft will be able to throw a "kill switch" to disable or even remove an app from users' Windows 8 devices, the company revealed in documentation released earlier this week for its upcoming Windows Store.

...

In the Windows Store terms of use, Microsoft made it clear that it can pull the kill switch at its discretion.

And just as troubling:

The company also noted that along with the app, it may also scrub data created by the app from a device.

"If the Windows Store, an app, or any content is changed or discontinued, your data could be deleted or you may not be able to retrieve data you have stored," Microsoft said.

Even more control taken away from the user, in his own device.

The article doesn't specify that this applies to RT only, so one may assume that Windows 8 NCI apps are also vulnerable. :ph34r:

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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The article doesn't specify that this applies to RT only, so one may assume that Windows 8 NCI apps are also vulnerable. :ph34r:

Yes and no. :unsure:

The Windows 8 is simply a "better" Windows 7 (only worse ;)), with a nameless crappy interface imposed on it, really, it is nothing more than Vista SP4.

The issue is ONLY with the App Store/Windows Store.

The technology to basically do whatever they see fit is already there, in theory they could use the automatic updates to do anything (since Windows XP - and this nicely explains why exactly the last good OS was 2K) on any PC that has them set to automatically download and install.

But at least up to 7 (but I believe in 8 as well) you can turn off that feature and set it to "manual".

On Windows RT you simply cannot (AFAIK) turn the Windows Store off AND since *every program* goes through it they could well package a "deleting" tool around *any* update of *any* software hosted on the Store.

And most probably, since the RT is nothing but a MS version of the iOS, they have added to it the "kill switch", but I doubt that the same exists on the "real" 8 (though it could be possible, noone has yet found any trace of it, but again it could be something that they could deploy allright inside an Update *anytime*).

jaclaz

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I have questioned if Microsoft could of made a back door wherein they could actually shut down any OS from XP on. I have no reason to believe this, other than their actions of late. It would certainly be a real tool to force folks to upgrade.

Seeing how they want to have total control, I really don't put anything past them at this point.

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Strangely OT (ON Topic):

http://blog.fosketts.net/2013/01/07/microsoft-kill-craptops-destroy-windows/

an interesting approach concluding that Windows 8 is deemed to failure anyway....

jaclaz

And then from that article:

The biggest issue with a “Touch versus Classic” battle is that consumers would likely opt for the cheaper path and sink the whole thing anyway.

If the touch screen was really the be all, end all, then it would easily displace the traditional desktop, keyboard and mouse. I don't see that ever happening. I have used a touchscreen interface on an Android tablet I have, it is functional, but it is a PITA. Now, do I feel that way because I'm of the older crowd and cut all my teeth with a keyboard? Could possibly be.

Touchscreen is fine for smaller devices, such as tablets and phones. But I don't think it has any place whatsoever on the desktop. Can a tablet replace a desktop? No way, at all. Does that mean that a tablet or a desktop are worthless? Again, I have to say a resounding NO.

They are all tools in the toolbox. We may have several tools that do the same thing, but in certain instances there is just one tool that really does the job well. So, that is the tool we use. Could the other tools do the job? Yes, but they might be a bit clunky at getting it done, but would get the job done.

So, I think Microsoft and their Windows 8, is a case of trying to make the touch screen into something like a crescent wrench. An often misused hand tool, that has rounded off way to many bolt heads. A handy tool to have around, but definitely not the only tool you want or need.

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So, I think Microsoft and their Windows 8, is a case of trying to make the touch screen into something like a crescent wrench. An often misused hand tool, that has rounded off way to many bolt heads. A handy tool to have around, but definitely not the only tool you want or need.

Yes and no (meaning that there is NO end to the foolishness in attempting bettering things - and often completely failing at it) :ph34r:

http://www.blackanddecker.com/power-tools/aaw100.aspx

Do check the user's comments...

Let's say that your car should never stop in winter :whistle:

http://bdk.force.com/FAQ/PKB_Article?id=kA0C0000000Cfr7KAC&brand=Black_Decker&group=&model=%22AAW100%22&type=&terms=&returl=%2Fapex%2Fpkb_search%3Fbrand%3DBlack_Decker%26mode%3D1%26model%3D%2522AAW100%2522%26sortby%3D0%26terms%3D

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
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Strangely OT (ON Topic):

http://blog.fosketts.net/2013/01/07/microsoft-kill-craptops-destroy-windows/

an interesting approach concluding that Windows 8 is deemed to failure anyway....

Evidently that guy prefers what he calls...

The Touch-Only Option

Microsoft should cut off low-end devices and require a touchscreen for Windows 8. They should also demand a decent amount of RAM, a fast CPU and GPU, and all-SSD storage. This is pretty drastic, but it would place a stake in the ground, at least where laptops are concerned.

The OEMs would freak out, but this would be in their best interest, too! Not only can they escape the low-margin craptop game, they can improve customer satisfaction and salvage the laptop PC market.

So he wants people to buy Ferraris (and the makers to offer ONLY Ferraris) when a Corolla will get them to the office and back just fine.

More likely, the "stake" that would be placed, would go straight into the heart of the laptop market (that is, killing it). The trouble with his proposed approach is that, as the writer himself acknowledges,

consumers would likely opt for the cheaper path and sink the whole thing anyway. Sure, that Dell XPS convertible with Windows Touch looks awesome, but you can buy two or three Dell Inspiron laptops with Windows Classic for the same money!

And that's the point. Requiring the features and specs he wants would at least double the cost to the buyer, and buyers are demonstrating that what they get for the additional cost is simply not worth it to them. Trying to ram this down their throats would qualify as a consumer ripoff. Not everyone has a spare $1000 lying around to spend on a nifty device with the latest bells and whistles. Or even if they do, they do not necessarily see enough value in it. Either way, these buyers would rather more sensibly spend $400 on a decent machine that will do what they need it to do, and save the other $600 for other things.

Not many years from now, Windows 8 may go down in history as, "The Unnecessary OS."

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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While looking for something else, I came across this dictionary definition, which is curiously fitting to our discussion.

gorilla arm: n.

The side-effect that destroyed touch-screens as a mainstream input technology despite a promising start in the early 1980s. It seems the designers of all those spiffy touch-menu systems failed to notice that humans aren't designed to hold their arms in front of their faces making small motions. After more than a very few selections, the arm begins to feel sore, cramped, and oversized — the operator looks like a gorilla while using the touch screen and feels like one afterwards. This is now considered a classic cautionary tale to human-factors designers; “Remember the gorilla arm!” is shorthand for “How is this going to fly in real use?”.

Note the time frame for when the term originated. Maybe an example of Santayana's maxim that, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." Except that you'd have thought Sinofsky and especially Ballmer would have remembered. Or maybe Santayana was literally right and they can't remember...

--JorgeA

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Wishful thinking can make one think that old problems have gone away even though nothing was done to solve them. After all, there's so much more technology now so maybe people won't care anymore!

The real red flag is when Apple performed the same user studies and came to the same conclusions. Not making any progress at all on a 30 year old problem is a sign that bets should be hedged.

Edit: adding reference:

Why ‘Gorilla Arm Syndrome’ Rules Out Multitouch Notebook Displays

Note the publication date. This information shouldn't have been a surprise to Microsoft.

Edit 2: if anyone is confused by the line, "And touchscreen computing is already well-implemented in non-mobile horizontal interfaces, like Microsoft’s Surface." it's because Surface originated as a "drafting table" concept. Here are conceptual demos from early in development:

Edited by HalloweenDocument12
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