JorgeA

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

6,162 posts in this topic

JorgeA's request was fair but was dismissed offhandedly: what is a better method of demonstrating popularity than Google results?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JorgeA's request was fair but was dismissed offhandedly: what is a better method of demonstrating popularity than Google results?

There are NO methods that offer *any* kind of reliability, and certainly not for a common word like "windows".

BTW I just showed you how small diferences (such as the "broken windows 8" example) can lead to VERY different results.

Fresh from my google:

boycott Linux = About 870,000 results (0.24 seconds)

boycott Mac OS = About 386,000 results (0.23 seconds)

boycott "Mac OS" = About 333,000 results (0.25 seconds)

boycott Microsoft = About 3,010,000 results (0.33 seconds)

boycott windows = About 3,700,000 results (0.34 seconds)

boycott windows 8 = About 3,000,000 results (0.31 seconds)

boycott "windows 8" = About 425,000 results (0.30 seconds)

boycott iOS =About 519,000 results (0.28 seconds)

So, we have a similar number of people talking of boycotting "Windows 8" and Mac Os, and almost double talking of boycotting Linux.

Moreover it seems like the people talking of boycotting Microsoft or Windows in general are many more than those talking of boycotting specifically "windows 8", which are about the same amount of those talking of boycotting Mac Os or iOS, that means that Windows 8 is a success :w00t:.

Meaningless metrics, more:

boycott surface = About 3,350,000 results (0.32 seconds)

boycott surface RT = About 40,400,000 results (0.60 seconds)

boycott "surface RT" = About 210,000 results (0.33 seconds)

boycott iPad = About 9,760,000 results (0.30 seconds)

boycott Apple = About 4,970,000 results (0.30 seconds)

Interestingly:

boycott Asus = About 2,860,000 results (0.33 seconds)

boycott Acer = About 3,060,000 results (0.38 seconds)

boycott Samsung = About 2,180,000 results (0.30 seconds)

boycott google = About 23,900,000 results (0.27 seconds)

Samsung make better products than both Acer and Asus and is far more popular than Apple (and incredibly MUCH less adversed than google). :whistle:

jaclaz

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, in conclusion, demonstrating popularity is impossible, and no attempts should be made? Does that make a statement of popularity automatically invalid? Does this mean that popularity effectively doesn't exist, at least from an argumentation standpoint?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, in conclusion, demonstrating popularity is impossible, and no attempts should be made?

Demonstrating is impossible.

Attempts to it are futile.

We have all before us examples of how well paid specialists in "market reserch" or "trend forecasting" often publish (basing themselves on far more "solid" data than a lousy google search results ESTIMATE) completely wrong conclusions.

Or look how "exit polls"(which are much more "tangible" and subject to statistical corrections and what not) often, when the result of the votes becomes official can be often largely disproved.

Does that make a statement of popularity automatically invalid?

No it makes it a statement, NOT a demonstration.

This statement, which is however a guess, educated as it might be, remains a statement, and nothing more

Does this mean that popularity effectively doesn't exist, at least from an argumentation standpoint?

Popularity exists, the way it is measured is fallible, and of all the methods using the ESTIMATION of google results is one of the more fallible, the given link:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/google-result-counts-are-a-meaningless-metric.html

explains in more detail why exactly.

jaclaz

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Making a statement whose truth value cannot be evaluated to any reasonable degree is an invalid statement on the grounds of lack of basis.

I feel that you changed your argument when you switched word usage to "fallible" at the end which isn't the same thing as "futile, impossible". Fallible implies a degree of confidence while your earlier arguments implied zero degree of confidence. You even said "more fallible" which means there are less fallible and, therefore, inherently more reliable, but you said that demonstration (to any degree) was impossible, which would seem to be a contradiction. Basically, you seem to be simultaneously advancing two contradicting arguments.

1. "Demonstrating is impossible." This would imply that there are no available tools to gauge popularity.

2. "Popularity exists, the way it is measured is fallible" This would imply there are tools to gauge popularity but with the caveat of suspect reliability.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. "Demonstrating is impossible." This would imply that there are no available tools to gauge popularity.

2. "Popularity exists, the way it is measured is fallible" This would imply there are tools to gauge popularity but with the caveat of suspect reliability.

Exactly, you can measure popularity by making a poll, then, provided that your sample is large enough and casual enough you can, using statistical formulas (which may include contrasting theories and consequently different results) extend your (limited) sample to the totality.

It is in any case an educated guess, which does not demonstrate anything.

You are expressing (mathematically and statistically) a synecdoche:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synecdoche

(the part for the whole)

So at least you have a "real" (though limited) base of data. (from which you can anyway draw the wrong conclusions)

In the case of google results counts you have NOT this base as the google counts are ESTIMATES:

https://developers.google.com/search-appliance/documentation/62/xml_reference?hl=it-IT#appendix_num_results

now, if JorgeA would manually examine (or write an "intelligent" program doing the same) each and every page returned (not "counted" )by the google search, dicarding duplicates, false results, etc. then he would have a "base", i.e. a verifiable list of web pages where the intention of boycotting Windows 8 is actually expressed by someone.

Fresh google results:

jorgeA = About 5,970,000 results (0.23 seconds)

HalloweenDocument12=6 results (0.26 seconds)

jorgeA :thumbup is BY FAR :yes: more popular than you :angel .

jaclaz

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You are expressing (mathematically and statistically) a synecdoche:

How dare you call me a douche? That was uncalled for!

In any case, I do not accept that statistics equates to "educated guessing", at least not by the colloquial understanding of the colloquial expression, and I feel the field of study can and does demonstrates truth values to the degrees of confidence which the discipline ascribes.

Fresh google results:

jorgeA = About 5,970,000 results (0.23 seconds)

HalloweenDocument12=6 results (0.26 seconds)

jorgeA :thumbup is BY FAR :yes: more popular than you :angel .

Being unique has its price.

I appreciate your taking the time to explain your viewpoint.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In any case, I do not accept that statistics equates to "educated guessing",

That's good :), I will gladly agree to a "softer "definition, what do you call something that can be proven wrong by reality or that another/study/poll/statistical analysis can contradict?

However, statistics has some diignity, :thumbup , ESTIMATED google counts do not (and they are NOT "statistics").

Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14% of people know that.

;)

jaclaz

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Say 100 Hail Mary's and write "I was a MetroTard" on the blackboard 100 times.

Just in case :):

Bart's chalkboard

iQQ9dLe.gif

rotflmao.gif

Jaclaz, seeing how you now owe me about a dozen new monitors, just get me this one and we'll call it even :thumbup

EDIT: clarity, updated image URL

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading the exchanges betwen jaclaz and HalloweenDocument12, I stand by my initial position.

Google Search results are of course inexact. But to quibble with them is to miss the point of the exercise entirely. My purpose with that post was to report here that there HAS been some interest expressed in boycotting Windows 8 -- which came as a surprise to me. A pleasant surprise, to be sure, but a surprise nonetheless. I wanted to share that sense with you all.

The precise level of interest in a boycott would have to be determined by a painstaking content analysis of the search results, but what struck me was to discover that the idea has been raised at all, let alone more than once, as an actual reading of the first page or two of the search results will show. I had nothing more than this in mind when I wrote my post.

While we're at it, it would be appreciated if participants here were to exercise tact when discussing each other's comments. If you think you have a better way to do something, then how about saying, "how about performing the search like this..." However, prefacing the suggestion with challenges such as...

If you want to lower yourself at the level of those we tend to criticize in this thread, go ahead.

...is needlessly confrontational and doesn't contribute to the discussion.

Now, if you want to address Windows 8 advocates that way, that's a whole different matter. ;) To my mind, one important reason that this thread exists is to support each other and to commiserate about the state of Windows 8 and its makers and advocates.

--JorgeA

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now I have seen everything. This has to be the all-time absolute epitome of idiocracy.

InFocus intros 55-inch "BigTouch" Windows 8 all-in-one for $4,999 ( TechSpot 2013-03-26 )

InFocus reveals 55-inch Windows 8 touchscreen PC ( NeoWin 2013-03-26 )

InFocus Intros Monster 55" AIO PC, the BigTouch ( Tom's Hardware 2013-03-26 )

t86lTWh.jpg

"Imagine interacting with virtually any content you want on a beautiful 55-inch high definition touch display," said Robert Detwiler, product manager at InFocus. "The BigTouch is the ideal product for many customers including educators who are using education software, software companies that want to demonstrate their applications on a large scale, or even digital signage companies looking for a display with an integrated PC. Ultimately, the BigTouch is for anyone who wants the Windows 8 touch experience on a large PC display."

  • 2 gigabit Ethernet ports
  • WiFi
  • 2 HDMI ports
  • 6 USB ports
  • 120GB solid state hard drive
  • 55-inch 1080p display with 5-point touch
  • wireless keyboard and mouse
  • Price $4,999.

Holy crap! :wacko: Those specs absolutely suck, and it must be the single biggest hardware markup ever seen, one that would even make Apple envious! I would guess they're taking 300% easy. What a brazen ripoff.

Does it double as a TV? Doesn't say. Is it LED backlit? Doesn't say. What brand/speed SSD? Doesn't say. Is it even USB 3? Doesn't say. Motherboard brand/specs? Doesn't say.

Even on a 27" monitor 1080 resolution is ridiculous and here is a device that exactly doubles that physical size keeping the resolution the same. Regular TV's have had this problem as they shot up from these sizes up to 60" behemoths where you have to sit or stand back further and further just to not be insulted by the horrific lack of pixel density. We have really almost returned to VGA levels of resolution now.

So here you have a unit that demands you sit around 15 feet away to view it favorably. And then they add touchscreen features and of course the Playskool Windows 8 operating system! We have officially become Idiocracy, lock, stock and barrel.

TVAropT.jpg

But who would buy such a thing, and why? I'll tell you who. You will. Yes, you will and you don't even have a choice. The answer lies in that press release above: "The BigTouch is the ideal product for many customers including educators who are using education software ..." and therein lies the rub. I don't know about how "education" spending is handled abroad, but here in the States it is one of the most corrupt and insidious bottomless pits of waste you can imagine. Homeowners are gouged mercilessly with school taxes that rise year after year, and every attempt to challenge their ridiculous budgets are met with the typical kneejerk response of "for the children" or "investing in the future" which is complete and utter tripe. Companies like Apple and Microsoft ( and this one naturally ) have been bleeding the innocent taxpayers like a stuck pig ever since they inserted themselves into this process in the 1980's. That is what this insanely priced device is after. The golden goose of education spending that flushes money down the toilet with impunity. Adults better wake up!

Stop listening to the MetroTards who tell you this new Microsoft Windows 8 and Metro and ReTard and Blew paradigm will not affect you. Besides the obvious Idiocracy dumbing-down of the interface and user base, the consequences will seriously affect you because it represents yet another round of upgrading and increased and new spending in your schools. The adminstrators of these hallowed halls will be lined up to demand all manner of new devices at these exhorbinant prices, and still they will accomplish little or nothing in the way educating the kids. The whole thing is a scam of unprecedented proportions.

TkUlAsZ.jpg

( ReMixed by Me, Inspiration )

EDIT: clarity, added article, updated image URLs

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Imagine interacting with virtually any content you want on a beautiful 55-inch high definition touch display," said Robert Detwiler, product manager at InFocus. "The BigTouch is the ideal product for many customers including educators who are using education software, software companies that want to demonstrate their applications on a large scale, or even digital signage companies looking for a display with an integrated PC. Ultimately, the BigTouch is for anyone who wants the Windows 8 touch experience on a large PC display."

I wonder if it's occurred to anybody involved with that project, that a speaker actually touching this behemoth before an audience will necessarily be standing in front of the monitor, obscuring the display.

...Unless you want to control the screen with the (wireless) mouse, which -- as even some enthusiasts of the "touch-optimized" Win8 will admit -- doesn't work all that well.

Does it double as a TV?

Sure, if your package includes Windows Media Center and a TV tuner. Otherwise you (or, should I say, taxpayers) will be paying even more...

* * *

Holy moly. :blink: Talk about needing "gorilla arms" to operate that thing...

--JorgeA

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My purpose with that post was to report here that there HAS been some interest expressed in boycotting Windows 8 -- which came as a surprise to me. A pleasant surprise, to be sure, but a surprise nonetheless. I wanted to share that sense with you all.

Yep :), and the same idea (from data gathered form the same source and with exactly the same manner) has semingly been manifested against Linux, Apple, iOS, etc., etc. (and with similar amounts of page counts):

What this tells us is that there are around people showing interest in boycott *anything* and *everybody*.

A quick search:

boycott JorgeA=About 204,000 results (0.33 seconds)

reveals how a lot of people are after you! :ph34r:

(and strangely enough the actual results seemingly do not include -yet - this forum page)

The problem of large touch screen (and the implied distance of them from the operator) has already been analyzed (and solved by the good Japanese guys :thumbup ):

terebi-no-te-magic-wand-remote-control.jpg

@Charlotte

I don't really understand how you are still thinking about those small sized displays :unsure:

See here, but BEFORE opening the spoiler, can you guess WHO exactly is "behind" the company "Perceptive Pixels", which sells a handy 82" touchscreen (1920x1080)?

PerceptivePixel.png

http://www.perceptivepixel.com/products/82-lcd-multi-touch-display

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CharlotteTH

Education budgets in the UK is the same as over there, just like anything the Government handles is a Supermassive Black Hole.

At least there is hope, for 25 Pounds Sterling. Intended to get people programming and experimenting with computers.

The Raspberry PI

Code blue in hospitals, does this mean computing is in cardiac arrest? (well in Redmond at least?)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, in conclusion, demonstrating popularity is impossible, and no attempts should be made? Does that make a statement of popularity automatically invalid? Does this mean that popularity effectively doesn't exist, at least from an argumentation standpoint?

Part of the problem with Google is not their fault at all, but with the kinds of websites that people end up creating. Many search results are aggregates (which is very annoying when trying to do research) and shouldn't really be counted in the results, but you can't select any sort of way to filter those types of sites out. So for example, there are many websites that can mirror some news story, so that news story shows up on multiple sites. Or there are sites that scrape content and create mirrors. For example, there is an aggregate for *some* MSFN content in China (or Russia, I forget) as well as there are ones for MS Social and other forums. Plus there are those "keyword" websites that have nothing to do with what you are searching for! :angry:

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.