JorgeA

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

6,162 posts in this topic

On a side note, I got curious about the Windows Store and looked for some info about it.

As you all surely know, the store is not browsable if not from Windows 8 (or at least I did not find a way :unsure:).

All of these app stores still just look at the User Agent to determine what kind of device you are using in order for access. I have not tried to look into the Windows Store yet, but have been able to go into both Google Play and Apple Store using Firefox at least. Most functions like downloading/installing and app do not work.

Seeing the reviews for what kinds of apps to expect to find in there doesn't make me feel it is worth the time trying to view it with the "wrong" kind of "device."

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On a side note, I got curious about the Windows Store and looked for some info about it.

[...]

But someone had a peek inside ;) :

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/5-reasons-why-the-windows-8-store-is-a-complete-mess/

That was a pretty d*mning review. First time I've come across the term "shovelware," :w00t: but it's appropriate.

Ports can be great when refined to take advantage of a new platform, but most games on the Windows 8 store don’t bother. Instead, most are scaled down versions of existing smartphone apps. That means pixelated graphics, comically over-sized buttons, and simplistic touch controls that don’t work well with a two-pound tablet. Strangely, apps for the iPad – which would be a better fit – haven’t come to Windows 8 in great numbers.

I liked his comment on the store's organization, where -- because of the low information density per screenful -- you have to scroll repeatedly to survey the storefront:

The Windows 8 store is designed as if it’s a retail store with only one aisle. Oh, you’re looking for men’s clothing? That’ll be 300 yards straight ahead, on the left, past the frozen foods.

I do have one quibble with the conclusion --

How does such a spectacularly terrible service manage to slip into the world’s most popular operating system? Was no one paying attention? Did no one care? We don’t know the answers to those questions, but we do know that Microsoft needs to find them. The future of the company depends on it.

The trouble with the first question is that the premise is wrong. The Windows Store didn't "slip into" Windows. Like a boar's head on the body of a gazelle, it was grafted onto it by certain genius-level decisionmakers.

The answer to the questions, I venture to say, lies in Microsoft's desperation to become like Apple, ASAP.

--JorgeA

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P.S. feel free to use these whenever you want.

Loved them!! :thumbup

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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The answer to the questions, I venture to say, lies in Microsoft's desperation to become like Apple, ASAP.

Some old news :ph34r: (and predictions :unsure: ):

http://www.cultofmac.com/65968/why-microsofts-mall-of-america-store-will-fail/

Of course there must be some bias, I don't expect someone on a site titled "Cult of Mac" to be particularly neutral :w00t: , but some points are (were) interesting IMHO.

jaclaz

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Uh-oh:

Why Windows Blue heralds the death of the desktop

There's a very good chance that Microsoft will kill the desktop in Windows 9. No more Task Manager. No more File Explorer. No more legacy compatibility. It'll be 100 percent Live Tiles, 100 percent of the time.
That's where the genius of Windows Blue and its rumored yearly Windows updates come in. Sure, yearly releases allow Microsoft to iterate and introduce new features quickly, but they also allow the company to wean you off the desktop just a bit more, year in and year out, until the death of the desktop becomes relatively painless. Losing the desktop would be like losing that third cousin twice removed whom you saw at family reunions once per decade.

post-287775-0-38855800-1364572467_thumb.

Don't cry for the Windows desktop. (Did you cry when graphical interfaces devastated the command line?) Its demise will herald a new era, an era of ubiquitous computing and touchscreen everything.

The GUI ultimately turned out to be an easier way to get work done on a computer. And even that was only after they invented the Start Button/Menu and the taskbar, which they are now getting rid of. I have yet to see anybody make a compelling case for tiles and touch being better -- in fact, touch on anything but a toy device is significantly more uncomfortable than a keyboard+mouse for more than a few seconds.

As @CharlotteTheHarlot says, it's truly Idiocracy taking over. For serious users, Windows (and therefore Microsoft) will become increasingly irrelevant. And for casual users, it will become a pointless, me-too Apple clone. Where's the upside?

--JorgeA

EDIT: Added image source

Edited by JorgeA
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All of these app stores still just look at the User Agent to determine what kind of device you are using in order for access. I have not tried to look into the Windows Store yet, but have been able to go into both Google Play and Apple Store using Firefox at least. Most functions like downloading/installing and app do not work.

Seeing the reviews for what kinds of apps to expect to find in there doesn't make me feel it is worth the time trying to view it with the "wrong" kind of "device."

I can browse and access the list of Apps on the apple App Store from my XP (and Opera) with no issues whatsoever, I cannot on MS Windows 8 store.

Of course I cannot download the apps, but I would expect (though I haven't tried that) to be able to download an iPad app from iTunes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/App_Store_(iOS)

The apps can be downloaded directly to an iOS device, or onto a personal computer (Macintosh or PC) via iTunes.

As a matter of fact, my mom has an iPad and from time to time I check for her/search for her an App on the App Store:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/genre/ios/id36?mt=8

jaclaz

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Something to keep in mind about the CLI is that it still exists and is still used for basically the same things it was in the past. What happened is the utility of computers expanded with the introduction of GUI and then again with touch. But the old stuff remains. In fact, Microsoft has been trending back toward CLI with things such as Power Shell (especially in Exchange) and MinWin. Where CLI fails is where they tried to graft it onto areas traditionally handled by GUIs, e.g. Linux Desktop. The same is true with touch, except for the fact that it is perceived as a "forward" technology rather than "backward".

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Something to keep in mind about the CLI is that it still exists and is still used for basically the same things it was in the past.

Yep :thumbup .

And guess WHAT exactly you use if your Windows 8 cannot download/install an App from the Store? :unsure: (let's say SkyPE ;) )

http://www.jasonslater.co.uk/2012/12/06/windows-8-store-dealing-with-this-application-wasnt-installed-error/

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-windows_store/windows-8-apps-not-downloading-all-stuck-on/5e70122e-7bac-456d-a318-e8aae43fa2c3

BTW, that is also the "official" method by MS for similar issues:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/windows-update-error-0x80246002

interestingly the approach is the same since Windows 2000:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/958046/en-us

this might tell you something about how "new" and "revolutionary" is the actual underlying OS .... :whistle:

jaclaz

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Good comment from this article:

The real problem for MS is not PC (lack of) turnover: people may slow down buying PC as W8 is a lackluster (in facts they are), and that may cost some billion bucks to MS to keep Dell and co on life support (in facts it's happening).

In the end part of them will migrate to Mac, Linux/Chromebook or other non Windows desktop environment for pros (like OSX well understood...) or stay on whatever MS rolls out, anyway it will be a long process.

The real bad news for MS is that due to W8 debacle end users and companies are accelerating the trend of switching more and more manpower, hours of use and strategical development resources on non WinPC platforms.

This is not a slow and painful process.

I can use my old PC for years, and get more and more interested on what can I do with my iPad and Android phone, and work with it and develop for it RIGHT NOW!

Now that MS declared the desktop dead, in facts, I've no real reason to spend hours of work for it, nor to include it in my plan for the future.

That is what is killing Microsoft - quickly, and right now.

MS had half of the market: the mature share needing a desktop.

Its way for enter the other half (that it lost killing CE and its market niche) is declaring dead the part it already owns: hordes of desktop users are consequently trusting them in no longer concentrating on the MS's half of the market, and spending work and making plan on the other half, where MS has a small market share and desperately slow user adoption rate, and no longer offers a "software company" approach: now they are a "device and service company", got right?

Then if you are an OEM you should be warned the "device" part means they wants to kill you, and if you are a pro user be warned that you are no longer a customer of a software, you are the product, something instrumental to make monetization for their "services" part.

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Good comment from this article:

@Formfiller's links led me to a bunch of good stuff, including other articles:

First, some quotes from, and thoughts on, the linked items.

Windows 'Blue': We waited for this?

Subhead:

A pirated copy of Windows 'Blue' has hit the ether, and it may be the least interesting update to Windows ever

In the body of the article, author Woody Leonhard is less than thrilled with "Blue":

If your idea of a compelling upgrade to Windows involves a Metro Start screen where -- OMG! OMG! -- the tiles can be either bigger or smaller, hey, have I got a product for you.

But if you have half a brain or were expecting some sort of desktop support in the next incarnation of Windows 8, I have exceedingly disappointing news. At least in this leaked version, what you want ain't there.

Forget about Windows 'Blue' -- stay focused on Windows 7

InfoWorld enterprise reporter J. Peter Bruzzese comments on Leonhard's post:

Personally, I don't know that anyone is really waiting for it. It's just the next tweak of Windows 8. What do people really want to see? A Start orb! Or more specifically, a choice to reenable a Start orb without having to install third-party Start menu applications.
(emphasis added)

Then he really starts laying into the whole Windows 8 concept: ;)

I've been using Windows 8 on both an Acer touchscreen all-in-one PC and a Dell Alienware Aurora with a traditional nontouchscreen monitor. It's tough either way, though more difficult without the touchscreen because the OS was built for finger swipes. That means the traditional enterprise must either replace all its hardware with touchscreen devices and replace all personnel with 15-year-olds who are more comfortable with touch than mouse, or we can go with Windows 7, get 90 percent of the benefits of Windows 8 in terms of security enhancements and so forth over XP, and wait.

Wait for what? Well, not "Blue," apparently. Perhaps for more turnover in hardware and a workforce more comfortable with gesture-based computing as Baby Boomers retire and Gens X, Y, and Z take over the workforce with their mad finger skills.

:lol:

And now for the promised value-added content... :yes:

A quick roundup of expert views on what Windows Blue means (or doesn't mean):

Windows users are singing the 'Blues'

One of the commentators cited in that piece:

Windows 'Blue' confirms desktop's days are numbered

Analysts read the current composition of Blue to mean Microsoft isn't caving to that criticism, and is continuing with its strategy to emphasize the Modern UI and deemphasize the desktop.

Not that there was ever any doubt of Microsoft's commitment.

"Microsoft is serious about the Modern UI," said Patrick Moorhead, principal of Moor Insights & Strategy, of the Modern-only changes. "They're sending a signal that [Modern] is the future for Windows."

By sticking to the program, Microsoft is following through on comments it's made previously, that it's in Windows 8 -- meaning the OS's assumption that touch is critical -- for the long haul, a line it's taken since the launch of Windows 8. The latest version of Windows has not sparked PC sales as some hoped, and, based on usage patterns, has had a slower uptake than the flop that was Windows Vista.

Blue's spotlight on Modern -- and its scorning of the desktop -- also illustrates Microsoft's long-range goal, to, at some point, abandon the Windows desktop for the touch-and-tile app model.

"Microsoft is ultimately going to move away from the desktop," asserted Frank Gillett, an analyst with Forrester Research. "They want to move away from that programming model."

Sadly, the false analogy between the move from DOS to GUI and the move from Desktop to Metro is given new life:

The parallels between today and 1985, when Microsoft debuted Windows even as the world still ran on DOS, are striking, Moorhead said. "Remember how stunning it was to move from a DOS box to Windows? This is very, very similar," he said. "Most of the people in corporations then were running DOS apps using only the keyboard, but not the keyboard and the mouse."

The discontent today over touch and Windows 8 -- users complaining of the new OS's unfriendly attitude toward keyboard-plus-mouse -- is just history on repeat.

No, no, no, no, no!!! :realmad: The GUI ultimately represented an improvement in usability and productivity because it eliminated the need to memorize arcane commands and minimized the possibility of mistyping long sequences of keystrokes, then having to painstakingly review every character typed to find the mistake. Now in terms of usability, ergonomics, or productivity, exactly what net benefit does "touch" bring?? You can't use it for an extended period without developing sore arms, and the low onscreen information density requires more scrolling and/or drilling into menu structures (or else dispensing with features).

And finally, watch out -- Microsoft is pushing ever harder on the "automatic updates" front:

Microsoft's new security patching routine raises concerns

Earlier this month, the Microsoft Trustworthy Computing team gave us an overview of how the Metro security patching routine should work, and a concommitant policy statement fleshes out a few more details. Here's how it actually works in practice:

  • There's no advance warning a patch is coming. Metro app security patches can appear at any time on any day...
  • There's no warning when you install the patch...
  • You can't roll the patch back. Given Microsoft's history with patching Windows, this is a disaster waiting to happen.
  • There are no version numbers and no revision history...
  • There are precious few details about the patch.

Lovely -- so if an update goes wrong, it'll go wrong for everybody at the same time -- forget about holding off on installing an update to see if it's causing trouble. No doubt all done in the name of making things easier or more convenient for the mobs who are expected to start lining up around the block for future Windows 8 devices. More evidence of the creeping cretinization of Windows. :no:

What a nightmare.

--JorgeA

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"Microsoft is ultimately going to move away from the desktop," asserted Frank Gillett, an analyst with Forrester Research. "They want to move away from that programming model."

Sadly, the false analogy between the move from DOS to GUI and the move from Desktop to Metro is given new life:

The parallels between today and 1985, when Microsoft debuted Windows even as the world still ran on DOS, are striking, Moorhead said. "Remember how stunning it was to move from a DOS box to Windows? This is very, very similar," he said. "Most of the people in corporations then were running DOS apps using only the keyboard, but not the keyboard and the mouse."

The discontent today over touch and Windows 8 -- users complaining of the new OS's unfriendly attitude toward keyboard-plus-mouse -- is just history on repeat.

...

No! It is ONLY and ONLY about locking down "your" device so that you no longer can develop and deploy "your" applications freely WITHOUT using the "Windows Marketplace", the forced 30% cut + the new feudalism where now they will dictate what can be installed or not installed... and/or remove any application they want, at any time, without you being able to do anything about it.

Entering the invisible prison, feudalism in IT

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The next version of Windows will be called...Windows Store v1.1 :no:

And all the microtards will be happy spending mom's hard earned cash for cretinoid games bought from...Windows Store. :w00t:

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This one post on Channel9 sent shivers down my spine. I seriously didn't know that:

http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/windows-8-speech-sent-to-microsoft

Just bought a lumia 920, I absolutely love it its a beautiful phone. Its my second windows phone. I went to use the speech feature to compose a message and was amazed to see that I will "Send the words you speak and supporting data, including recent contact names to Microsoft..." Amazing. Unbelievable.

Creeptastic. According to the replies, "Apple does the same". I love that excuse.

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Windows Phone is less than 2.5 years old. Why would anyone have bought two in that span? Maybe he's going back to Windows Mobile.

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