JorgeA

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

6,162 posts in this topic

The start button and boot-to-desktop are pretty useless if the start screen stays. That's the biggest clusterf***.

What's great about booting to desktop if the start screen appears anyway if you want to do anything? I have to agree with the metrotards here: Reaching the desktop from the start screen isn't that difficult. The start screen itself is the problem.

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The start button and boot-to-desktop are pretty useless if the start screen stays. That's the biggest clusterf***.

What's great about booting to desktop if the start screen appears anyway if you want to do anything? I have to agree with the metrotards here: Reaching the desktop from the start screen isn't that difficult. The start screen itself is the problem.

Yeah, some of the Start Button replacements simply take you to the Metro Start Screen (or something that looks a lot like it) when you click on them. But the ones that I used in the preview versions of Windows 8 don't take you to the Metro screen, they work pretty much like the "classic" Start Menu. The best ones even let you disable the hot corners so that they don't annoy and distract the user in the course of getting stuff done.

That said, it doesn't seem possible to disable the Metro screen completely and for all purposes; the ability to do that would be the best improvement that Windows 8 could receive.

--JorgeA

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The start button and boot-to-desktop are pretty useless if the start screen stays. That's the biggest clusterf***.

What's great about booting to desktop if the start screen appears anyway if you want to do anything? I have to agree with the metrotards here: Reaching the desktop from the start screen isn't that difficult. The start screen itself is the problem.

Yeah, some of the Start Button replacements simply take you to the Metro Start Screen (or something that looks a lot like it) when you click on them. But the ones that I used in the preview versions of Windows 8 don't take you to the Metro screen, they work pretty much like the "classic" Start Menu. The best ones even let you disable the hot corners so that they don't annoy and distract the user in the course of getting stuff done.

That said, it doesn't seem possible to disable the Metro screen completely and for all purposes; the ability to do that would be the best improvement that Windows 8 could receive.

--JorgeA

Given the crazy-course Microsoft is on, it could be possible that they will bring back desktop-boot and the start button, but indeed "forget" about the start menu (start button without the start menu is like a car without engine).

Of course, they will be totally confused why this thing will be still tanking.

If this happens, recovery of Windows will be even more f***ed-up. After reading forums with MS employees on, I get the feeling that they seem to feel that the main problem people have is just the lack of start button. The start menu doesn't even enter into their equation. I am not entirely sure whether its genuine cluelessness or just playing-dumb. And AERO is not even on the radar.

The metrotards could become even MORE obnoxious ("they have given you what you want, what are you still crying!?"), and this time the tech press could side with MS, using the same obnoxious tenor ("despite adding the start button back, Windows 8 sales are still tanking. It proves that low PC sales have nothing to do with Windows 8 but it's all because of [...])

So just adding the button back could make this whole W8 affair even more nauseous.

Edited by Formfiller
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This whole "can boot to the desktop" is really deceiving and potentially useless. This is because there is nothing to do on the desktop except open IE or Library. Might as well keep that Start Screen to show up by default, because without a Start Menu, what's the point?

I assume you're referring to RT, right? We can still do useful things on "regular" Windows 8.

I don't actively "use" Windows 8, so my experience with it is in a stock form... nothing is installed. So it booting to the desktop seems pointless to me.

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Microsoft's Windows 8 Plan B(lue): Bring back the Start button, boot to desktop ( Mary Jo Foley ZDNet 2013-04-16 )

Windows 8.1 will include boot to desktop option to bypass 'Metro' interface ( Tom Warren The Verge 2013-04-16 )

Microsoft yields: boot to desktop, Start menu options in Windows 8.1? ( TechSpot 2013-04-16 )

Evidence mounts for Windows 8.1 boot to desktop option ( NeoWin 2013-04-16 )

Rumor: The Start Button to return in Windows 8.1 ( NeoWin 2013-04-16 )

Boot to desktop for Windows 8.1 could be for 'Kiosk mode', dashes our hopes a bit ( NeoWin 2013-04-16 )

Will they or won't they? One thing is funny though, just as Formfiller said, they ( the MetroTard commenters ) are currently re-posturing themselves to accepting this with sudden rationalizations of how choice is good. :lol:

Windows 8.1 build 9369 has leaked ( NeoWin 2013-04-16 )

Windows 8.1 build 9369 installation screenshots ( NeoWin 2013-04-16 )

gH5pv88.jpggP0HrIs.jpg

( images left and right from NeoWin )

You know what is the most offensive part of the Windows 8 desktop? The little "e" icon in the place of the Start Menu, a subtle thing that represents their new thinking. Start Me Up replaced by Internet Explorer. The Windows Explorer Icon as the other choice really shows just how shallow their thinking is. MSIE and Explorer, that's our toolbox, yep. Pretty much the classic setup for a n00b. Add in the Aero Glass-less appearance, flat 2D and squared corners, plus those one-color icons in the systray and the whole experience just cries out as a pOS. Pretty much everything visually sucks. And that is just on the desktop. Metro is a whole 'nuther story.

EDIT: typo, updated image URLs

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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Microsoft's Terry Myerson: Android is "a mess", no need for Surface phone, and more on WP8 ( NeoWin 2013-04-16 )

Google's Eric Schmidt: 1.5 million Android activations per day ( NeoWin 2013-04-16 )

Yep, that some kinda "mess" right there. So Terry, tell me something. What exactly is WP8 and RT getting? A million activations a month or a quarter? :lol: Jealousy is one of the seven deadly sins.

Latest Windows 8.1 build shows new search features, pulls content from the web ( NeoWin 2013-04-16 )

... the new feature will allow you to use suggestions from the web as you search on your machine.

Besides the obvious benefit of being tied into the web via your desktop, this will likely give Bing a considerable boost in searches.

:blink: Ah, once again blurring the lines between online and offline. Taking that Win98 active desktop and channels thing into the bigtime. Except in this century we have fast downloads on broadband, and by using BING what could possibly go wrong? Let me think ... Oh yeah, Study says Bing is five times more likely to find malware than Google. On the bright side, this means that on Windows 8 you'll be able to just start typing, oh I don't know, "Metro Sucks" and get instant results. Maybe even a hit on a link back to this very thread! :lol:

Windows 8.1 'Files' app revealed in leaked build 9369, file browsing comes to the Modern UI ( NeoWin 2013-04-16 )

tWGAuDx.jpg

I would swear this one is an April Fool's joke, but it ain't. So once again I have awoken into an alternate universe where someone is demonstrating some random 3rd party operating system, maybe a beta of a *nix shell developed by students in some high school.

For a while I was actually wondering how the design committee was planning to outdo their handiwork revising the file collision dialog on Vista/7/8. This must is the answer. One flew over the Cuckoo's Nest. A perfect example of square pegs in round holes ...

9jRUDeE.jpg

EDIT: updated image URLs

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3654751&cid=43465225

...That's just because you're too primitive and non-fashionable enough to realize the true beauty and wonder* of putting the gas above your head and splitting the brake into three pedals, a button, two switches, and voice control. Oh, and Facebook integration.

Fun joke. *LOL*

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http://arstechnica.c...chinas-foxconn/

http://arstechnica.c...gle-to-wake-up/

http://paidcontent.o...hone-7-revenue/

The Redmond software giant has insisted for years now that any company making Android phones needs to license its patents.That campaign has generally been successful; so successful, in fact, that by 2011 Microsoft was making more money from patent licensing than from its own mobile phone system.

Would it be too much of a stretch to say, it is a little similar to a kind of racketeering business? :sneaky:

Edited by ciHnoN
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http://www.networkwo...ft-android.html

Patents 5,579,517 and 5,758,352, issued in 1996, "relate to implementing both long and short file names in the same file system," Microsoft says. The complaint goes on to mention the FAT16 file system used by MS-DOS and early versions of Windows.

Microsoft claims the Motorola Droid 2, the Droid X and numerous other Motorola Android phones violate these and other patents.

Next on the list is U.S. Patent No. 6,621,746, which was issued in 2003 and relates to a monitoring system that determines when to erase data from flash memory devices.

PATENTED: Microsoft patents 'record button on a computer system'

Microsoft's Patent no. 6,826,762 from 2004 covers APIs related to cellular technology, including one that lets applications "issue commands without needing knowledge of the cellular telephone's underlying radio structure and without needing specific knowledge of the radio network's specific commands."

More patents include:

• No. 6,909,910 from 2005 for "managing changes to a contact database."

• No. 7,644,376, issued in 2010 to cover an API that lets mobile apps learn about state changes in the device.

• No. 5,664,133 from 1997 covering "context sensitive menu system/menu behavior," known more generally as a graphical user interface that lets users "quickly and easily select/execute the desired computer resource."

• No. 6,578,054 from 2003 covering online and offline transmission of data through methods that "eliminate data transmission and allow multiple copies of data to be synchronized via incremental changes."

• No. 6,370,566 from 2002, with the self-explanatory title, "Generating Meeting Requests and Group Scheduling From a Mobile Device."

• No. 5,778,372 from 1998, titled "Remote Retrieval and Display Management of Electronic Document with Incorporated Images," covering a browser that initially displays electronic documents without background images so they can be loaded more quickly.

• No. 6,339,780 from 2002, titled "Loading Status in a Hypermedia Browser Having a Limited Display Area," referring to a temporary graphic element that displays while a browser is loading content.

• No. 5,889,522 from 1999, titled "System Provided Child Windows Controls," covering a dynamic link library for implementing window controls in an operating system.

Related Content

• No. 6,891,551 from 2005, titled "Selection Handles in Editing Electronic Documents," a method of highlighting and selecting elements in documents with the ability to resize and drag selections.

• No. 6,957,233 from 2005, titled "Method and Apparatus for Capturing and Rendering Annotations for Non-modifiable Electronic Content," letting users select objects on pages they otherwise cannot edit, and storing annotations "separately from the non-modifiable portion of the file."

Edited by ciHnoN
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Windows 8.1 'Files' app revealed in leaked build 9369, file browsing comes to the Modern UI ( NeoWin 2013-04-16 )

CUPwf71.jpg

I would swear this one is an April Fool's joke, but it ain't. So once again I have awoken into an alternate universe where someone is demonstrating some random 3rd party operating system, maybe a beta of a *nix shell developed by students in some high school.

For a while I was actually wondering how the design committee was planning to outdo their handiwork revising the file collision dialog on Vista/7/8. This must is the answer. One flew over the Cuckoo's Nest. A perfect example of square pegs in round holes ...

Unlike earlier reports of the Start Button coming back, this one is bad news. Adding more and more computer management functions to the Metro side is a clear indication that MSFT is forging ahead with the rumored plans to eliminate the Desktop altogether. Once it is possible to perform every management function in Metro (in however crippled or fully featured a way), from their perspective there will no longer be a need for the Desktop and they can erase it from the Windows code.

At that point, not only will we be stuck with that hideous interface, but as @ciHnoN points out, we'll also be stuck with getting all our programs via the Windows Store. :angrym: Unless somebody figures out a way to do sideloading or jailbreak Metro.

--JorgeA

EDIT: typo

Edited by JorgeA
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http://www.networkwo...ft-android.html

Patents 5,579,517 and 5,758,352, issued in 1996, "relate to implementing both long and short file names in the same file system," Microsoft says. The complaint goes on to mention the FAT16 file system used by MS-DOS and early versions of Windows.

Microsoft claims the Motorola Droid 2, the Droid X and numerous other Motorola Android phones violate these and other patents.

Next on the list is U.S. Patent No. 6,621,746, which was issued in 2003 and relates to a monitoring system that determines when to erase data from flash memory devices.

PATENTED: Microsoft patents 'record button on a computer system'

Microsoft's Patent no. 6,826,762 from 2004 covers APIs related to cellular technology, including one that lets applications "issue commands without needing knowledge of the cellular telephone's underlying radio structure and without needing specific knowledge of the radio network's specific commands."

More patents include:

• No. 6,909,910 from 2005 for "managing changes to a contact database."

• No. 7,644,376, issued in 2010 to cover an API that lets mobile apps learn about state changes in the device.

• No. 5,664,133 from 1997 covering "context sensitive menu system/menu behavior," known more generally as a graphical user interface that lets users "quickly and easily select/execute the desired computer resource."

• No. 6,578,054 from 2003 covering online and offline transmission of data through methods that "eliminate data transmission and allow multiple copies of data to be synchronized via incremental changes."

• No. 6,370,566 from 2002, with the self-explanatory title, "Generating Meeting Requests and Group Scheduling From a Mobile Device."

• No. 5,778,372 from 1998, titled "Remote Retrieval and Display Management of Electronic Document with Incorporated Images," covering a browser that initially displays electronic documents without background images so they can be loaded more quickly.

• No. 6,339,780 from 2002, titled "Loading Status in a Hypermedia Browser Having a Limited Display Area," referring to a temporary graphic element that displays while a browser is loading content.

• No. 5,889,522 from 1999, titled "System Provided Child Windows Controls," covering a dynamic link library for implementing window controls in an operating system.

Related Content

• No. 6,891,551 from 2005, titled "Selection Handles in Editing Electronic Documents," a method of highlighting and selecting elements in documents with the ability to resize and drag selections.

• No. 6,957,233 from 2005, titled "Method and Apparatus for Capturing and Rendering Annotations for Non-modifiable Electronic Content," letting users select objects on pages they otherwise cannot edit, and storing annotations "separately from the non-modifiable portion of the file."

When you can "patent" such tiny picayune functions, it shows that the patent system is totally out of control. Wonder if MSFT also has a patent for "flexing index, ring, and pinky fingers while fully extending middle finger."

This is ridiculous. The way things work today, could Heny Ford or a comparable early auto engineer have patented "methods" for starting a car engine, steering, applying brakes, opening a door?

--JorgeA

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This is ridiculous.

AND outdated. :whistle:

Fresh news:

Microsoft adds Foxconn parent to list of Android patent deal scalps

http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-adds-foxconn-parent-to-list-of-android-patent-deal-scalps-7000014133/

Microsoft signs Chrome and Android deal with Foxconn parent Hon Hai

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/apr/17/microsoft-chrome-android-deal-foxconn-hon-hai

List here:

http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/04/foxconn-parent-hon-hai-signs-with.html

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
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This is ridiculous.

AND outdated. :whistle:

Fresh news:

Microsoft adds Foxconn parent to list of Android patent deal scalps

http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-adds-foxconn-parent-to-list-of-android-patent-deal-scalps-7000014133/

These links don't seem to make the older ones "outdated" in the sense that the idea of MSFT dominating via patent law no longer applies. If anything, the new information confirms the ridiculous situation and shows that things are even worse than before.

I'll be happy to be shown that things are better than I'm interpreting them...

--JorgeA

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These links don't seem to make the older ones "outdated" in the sense that the idea of MSFT dominating via patent law no longer applies. If anything, the new information confirms the ridiculous situation and shows that things are even worse than before.

Naaah, outdated in the sense that they were old news, the reality (updated) is worse. :ph34r:

Of course the real cause of this is the US patent office and related Laws, in Europe things appear much better.

jaclaz

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