JorgeA

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

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Tabbed windows within a window is very productive ( thank you Opera and Excel ). It is kind of a like Taskbar'd windows in Windows itself, with Alt-Tab as the quick switch mechanism or clicking on the Taskbar buttons for slower navigation.

Long-winded story begins ... Now the Taskbar paradigm is obviously dated exactly to Windows 95, but it's origins go back to many earlier Win3x and pure DOS programs that used tabs within themselves. The true origin, albeit without a GUI tab visual accoutrement, would probably be text editors that had a pseudo-MDI ( multiple document interface ) in the very early 1980's. From a dropdown menu the individual open text files could be accessed, and some editors had keystroke combos to jump between them and if you were really lucky you could reprogram them to something less cumbersome than the programmer duhfaults. So I would always look for this and change them. Net result was the ability to switch between files using CTRL-UP or DOWN very very quickly. This gave the ability of comparison, the so-called A/B switching ( in the Audio or Music biz ) or in Astronomy when they A/B photos to discover Meteors, Comets or the Planet Pluto. Checking for differences between text files was an early predecessor to GUI WinDiff type applications later.

Anyway, I had business reasons way back then to do these kind of things in editors, for example comparing Network or DOS configuration files from different machines, proofreading group edited documents and whatnot. So I always had them customized for CTRL-UP and DOWN or sometimes ALT, depending on the available keyboard. Ever since then I have ported this forward to modern editors, from PFE32 and later to ULTRAEDIT and Visual Studio and other programming IDE's and more. Anyway the reason I am taking this trip down memory lane is that it is extremely useful in browsers, in fact your above stated usage. I know that Opera gives access to customization including keyboard config. I have done what you mentioned ( shopping ) with lots of tabs looking at competing products and can fly through them with CTRL-UP or DOWN ( back or forth through the Z order ). I may be wrong but I would doubt that MSIE exposes the keyboard config, but if it is possible you might enjoy fast keystroke switching within a single window rather than multiple windows using ALT-TAB. :yes:

Or you can dump MSIE in the trash can where it belongs :lol: Actually, I don't know if FF or MSIE let you remap keystrokes or not, I just doubt it in the latter case.

That was very interesting background, thanks!

Re: browsers. I was warming up to Firefox until they started messing around with the interface and removed most of the visible controls (after version 3, IIRC). I stayed on version 3 until my Norton 360 stopped supporting it and I had to choose between a useful interface and N360's protections. Since then, I use FF maybe once every other month. Plus, I wish they'd stop issuing new FF versions 15 times a day already... (At least, that's what it feels like.)

It IS a nice option to be able to go directly from one tab to another using keyboard commands. In a tabbed IE window, I can use Ctrl+Tab and Ctr+Shift+Tab to go back and forth, although that last combination starts getting physically awkward and I find it easier to use the mouse to click on the desired tab. (Do these keystrokes work in Metro IE10? I can't remember. But in any case, in Metro IE you don't have the tab/window labels constantly visible, so you have to guess or remember which one comes next.)

--JorgeA

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Nothing beats... drum roll... OPERA. :D ... at least for now. Not sure how using webkit will turn out but in terms of GUI customization, cookie handling, xml feeds, password manager, bookmarks... it simply is the best. I need to separate some cookie accounts so I got FF installed lately for some few specific sites and FF is just horrible compared to Opera in terms of GUI, download manager... everything about it just annoys me and feels so 90s.

Bear in mind, I was a HUGE fan of IE for years... tried Opera 3 times... to actually "understand" it... now I cannot think of any other browser to use. Ever. :):thumbup

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Windows Blue won't solve all Microsoft's problems, analysts say

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9238698/Windows_Blue_won_t_solve_all_Microsoft_s_problems_analysts_say?taxonomyId=125&pageNumber=2

"Windows 8 sucks because Windows 8 apps suck," said Cherry, not mincing words. "And there's nothing in all these rumors of Windows Blue or Windows 8.1 that tells me that apps will be easier to write or that will result in better apps."

:lol:

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It IS a nice option to be able to go directly from one tab to another using keyboard commands. In a tabbed IE window, I can use Ctrl+Tab and Ctr+Shift+Tab to go back and forth, although that last combination starts getting physically awkward and I find it easier to use the mouse to click on the desired tab. (Do these keystrokes work in Metro IE10?

I don't know about Metro IE10, but those same Ctrl+Tab and Ctr+Shift+Tab commands to cycle from Tab to Tab work on SRWare Iron, my browser of choice, which is a version of Chrome. At least they work on Win7, my OS of choice.

Cheers and Regards

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But more seriously -- wonderful, here's a security suite feature that protects, not the user from outside parties, but outside parties from the user.

And given the blocking aspect, it's not hard to imagine how repressive states like China or Iran could put this technology to use on their subject peoples. :rolleyes:

Bravo! You said it way better than I did. :thumbup McAfee/Intel trying to invert the security paradigm ( and really all of Big Technology and the BSA and the Hollywood Mafia would support this ) the same way that Microsoft is trying to invert the user experience.

It IS a nice option to be able to go directly from one tab to another using keyboard commands. In a tabbed IE window, I can use Ctrl+Tab and Ctr+Shift+Tab to go back and forth, although that last combination starts getting physically awkward and I find it easier to use the mouse to click on the desired tab. (Do these keystrokes work in Metro IE10? I can't remember. But in any case, in Metro IE you don't have the tab/window labels constantly visible, so you have to guess or remember which one comes next.)

You just reminded me why I can't stand the tabbing in MSIE and others. As a lefty the CTRL-TAB is difficult for me because my main hand is always on a mouse or trackball. So by remapping to CTRL-UP/DOWN I can use my right-hand for fast tab switching while keeping the mouse available for scrollbar area clicking for vertical syncing of the content of each page in a tab ( getting them lined up is crucial to fast comparing alike page formats or text files or photographs or ... ).

Nothing beats... drum roll... OPERA. :D ... at least for now. Not sure how using webkit will turn out but in terms of GUI customization, cookie handling, xml feeds, password manager, bookmarks... it simply is the best. I need to separate some cookie accounts so I got FF installed lately for some few specific sites and FF is just horrible compared to Opera in terms of GUI, download manager... everything about it just annoys me and feels so 90s.

Ah, there is a good solution for your cookie segregation problem. Opera allows multiple versions to co-exist with each maintaining their own settings as they use discrete INI-type files. In fact I have been able to do this pretty much non-stop since Opera 2. Porting between computers is a simple matter of copying the folder structure ( with hiccups in some versions that put shared application settings in the user profile structure and/or if you allowed the installer to pick its own location ). I get around this by keeping everything under a longtime single folder structure ...

C:\Winapps\Opera\02

C:\Winapps\Opera\03

[...]

C:\Winapps\Opera\11

C:\Winapps\Opera\12

... and within them many different builds of course. Then it is a simple matter of separate shortcuts. Alternatively you can just use different Windows user accounts and install Opera NOT using the "everyone" option, but that means logging out to change.

Anyway, the cookies are kept in a DAT file ( still an INI type ) which means another possibility is keeping separate files there, but it is cumbersome. But I have to mention that Opera has been carrying along many bugs for years and they appear no better than Microsoft for listening to users. The cookie manager sucks bad. Just clean up your cookies, then close the manager and re-open it and more magically appear which were previously existing in the DAT but not loaded into the GUI. It takes multiple passes to clean them up. Also, there is no way to protect individual cookies ( perhaps it could use a 2nd file for those that we flag as keepers ) so while I want to keep the settings in perhaps 20 cookies and delete the other 500, it cannot be done except for painstakingly wandering through the list. ~sigh~

Speaking of Opera bugs, I just fell into another one again. I couldn't remember the version I am on at the moment so I did Help > About. Naturally, after all these years that dialog still loads into _self and blows away the current tab and then I idi0tically closed the tab and threw out all the typing in this box with no chance for recovery. That is one of the older bugs that was reported and still it is there. What will webkit bring us? I don't know.

EDIT: typo

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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Firefox OS Phones Available for Developers ( Tom's Hardware 2013-04-25 )

Intel Atom-based Android Notebooks to Cost $200 ( Maximum PC 2013-04-26 )

HP's Slate 7 tablet undercuts the competition at $169.99 ( TechSpot 2013-04-26 )

Rugged Samsung Galaxy S4, Galaxy tablets to arrive this summer ( TechSpot 2013-04-26 )

Super budget-minded Samsung Galaxy Core specs, price leaked ( TechSpot 2013-04-26 )

The floodgates are open. Just a sample of the massive influx of devices that will all outsell Microsoft branded or sanctioned items. When Microsoft began this crazy trek to gain mobile marketshare over two years ago, not one of these things were on their radar, including the Galaxy phone or the rise of Android. That shows you how no plan can address the future. Particularly when that Plan-A is to screw over the x86 universe that made Microsoft who they are today, by attacking the very fundamentals of the Operating System called Windows which is the rocket ship they rode to success. How's that Plan-A working out Ballmer? Aren't you glad you p!ssed us all off? :angry:

Analyst: Windows 8.1 won't fix apps that 'suck' ( NeoWin 2013-04-26 )

Already mentioned by MagicAndre1981 a few posts back, this one is now a typical 'tardfest. :lol: As is this one ...

StatCounter: Windows 8 on 4.69 percent of PCs six months after launch ( NeoWin 2013-04-26 )

HeHeHe :lol: It really is stunning cognitive dissonance employed by MetroTards and MicroZealots to not be able to comprehend simple concepts like monopoly. The fools really seem to believe that they are competing with Apple or Android ( you are not! ). By killing your actual competition ( Windows 7 or Vista or XP or ... ) you have cleared the playing field of all competitors. By sneaky backroom deals Microsoft has secured itself a monopoly and then suddenly all the 'tards are cheering because the one and only available operating system is slowly growing.

At least a couple of people aren't delusional: "MS could practically release anything for an OS and it'd be at 5% after 6 months. It helps when the vast, vast majority of computers that ship these days have an OS installed and that OS is Windows.". And another: "Worthless stats. Microsoft could release an operating system that smells like dog sh@t, but guess what? It's the only d@mn operating in the store! No choice, numbers don't mean anything.". Bingo. :thumbup

EDIT: typo

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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...opera...

WOW! I AM SUCH A MORON! Seriously! I run Opera as a USB-installation already... WHY DID I NOT THINK OF JUST COPYING MY FOLDER AND GET A SECOND OPERA? hahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha...... wow... just wow... sometimes, one cannot see clearly! :D

Thanks!

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...opera...

WOW! I AM SUCH A MORON! Seriously! I run Opera as a USB-installation already... WHY DID I NOT THINK OF JUST COPYING MY FOLDER AND GET A SECOND OPERA? hahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha...... wow... just wow... sometimes, one cannot see clearly! :D

Thanks!

Careful though, when I said copy being between computers I was talking about porting and mirroring the same install and all other things are kept the same ( filepaths, etc. ).

To create another parallel Opera now, you can do it in at least two different ways.

- Install another one fresh. All the files within will correctly point to to this new install.

- Copy the existing folder source to a new target but you have to search the entire new folder file contents for path references that point back to the original you copied. Any path references that are absolute ( C:\Winapps\Opera\12\xxx ) will need to be edited. Any with relative paths ( ..\Profile\xxx ) will be fine. This is one reason I use "Winapps" for many years. I can just search for that exact term to locate file paths. If I had allowed the default "Program Files" I would have many extra searches to look for ( LFN, SFN, X86, many user profile locations, etc ). So I decided to "tame" it by removing all the possible Microsoft approved infinite variations and complications. :lol:

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Microsoft 're-imagining' video reveals secrets of rebranding, hints of what's to come ( NeoWin 2013-04-27 )

A lot of hipster blah, blah, blah. Okay, let's get the jokes out of the way first ...

In the video, Shum and Simmons discuss "the re-imagining of Microsoft", including some of the thoughts and concepts that influenced the design process. The challenge of addressing the perceptions of Microsoft's corporate image are discussed extensively; as Simmons says in the opening minutes of the video, "there's nothing 'micro' or 'soft' about Microsoft", as he stands in front of a large slide reading "Big" and "Hard".

:whistle: Oh my.

Even better, here is an actual billboard for Office 365 ...

qj8yFfg.jpg

( Image from NeoWin )

:lol: Pretty accurate, well, with just a little editing I think. I'll have to get back to this soon. :yes:

Anyhoo, the whole point of the article is a look at the hipster re-branding of Microsoft, because Lord knows that was the problem there. Yes, the tired old logos and 3D GUI interfaces and products that appealed to expert users and developers. To get a feel for the nu-Microsoft target clientele just read through the article comments ( and many others at NeoWin and The Verge ) and feel the love that the MetroTards and MicroZealots are pouring onto their master ... "Whoa the boomerang Bing logo is awesome!". :no: No it ain't, it pretty much sucks ... "This video was truly inspiring! I loved it! I especially loved the analogy of Apple being an apple, and Microsoft being a bowl and all it's brands and users being the fruit within. Love it. Also, the teaser with the new Bing and Yammer logos and new Microsoft identity look really exciting. I can't wait!" For real? :blink: ... "Sorry but Bing IS NOW PERFECT guys. Amazing for search. Good Job from Microsoft." Perfect you say? How about a perfect copy of Google! Ok, with wallpaper. Desktop cluttering, non-Minimalist wallpaper. :lol:

Back when they did this logo thing, I came up with a few myself. Amazingly no-one else seems to have thought of it either. My idea is much more appropriate for MicroSloth. Feel free to use them or edit them at will ...

xtzF8hr.png

aO7HvOh.png

Several variations ...

Efk4V77.gif

xtzF8hr.png

IaP5xxC.png

KQVmewJ.jpg

4kjxMmH.jpg

pehMXlb.gif

aO7HvOh.png

EDIT: updated image URLs

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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StatCounter: Windows 8 on 4.69 percent of PCs six months after launch ( NeoWin 2013-04-26 )

HeHeHe :lol: It really is stunning cognitive dissonance employed by MetroTards and MicroZealots to not be able to comprehend simple concepts like monopoly. The fools really seem to believe that they are competing with Apple or Android ( you are not! ). By killing your actual competition ( Windows 7 or Vista or XP or ... ) you have cleared the playing field of all competitors. By sneaky backroom deals Microsoft has secured itself a monopoly and then suddenly all the 'tards are cheering because the one and only available operating system is slowly growing.

At least a couple of people aren't delusional: "MS could practically release anything for an OS and it'd be at 5% after 6 months. It helps when the vast, vast majority of computers that ship these days have an OS installed and that OS is Windows.". And another: "Worthless stats. Microsoft could release an operating system that smells like dog sh@t, but guess what? It's the only d@mn operating in the store! No choice, numbers don't mean anything.". Bingo. :thumbup

You make a great point that needs to be repeated more often. The real competitors to Win8 are XP, Vista, and 7 -- particularly Vista and 7, because we have OS adoption data for them that can be compared to Win8. Measuring the PC market performance of each Windows version to the other Windows versions at analogous points in their life cycles is the closest we can get to an "oranges to oranges" comparison.

Everybody else (Linux, Mac, Solaris, etc.) is basically a footnote.

Now, if we want to count tablet and smartphone OS's in the total, we can do that. In that case, though, if and as the mobile market grows and comes to overwhelm the PC market (as we're told that it will), then Microsoft fans must steel themselves for a loooong (and maybe never-ending) winter of minority status. In terms of market share, they'll be the Linux/Mac/Solaris of mobile -- hardly anything to brag about or look forward to. By cheering on the dubious decisions of Microsoft executives, they will have contributed to the decline of the brand they claim to love so much.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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The real competitors to Win8 are XP, Vista, and 7 -- particularly Vista and 7, because we have OS adoption data for them that can be compared to Win8.

Naah :no: , Vista cannot be part of the "competition", the ONLY thing that can compete with Vista is Windows Me :whistle: (and Windows ME would win anyway :yes: )

:lol:

jaclaz

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"Cluster" ?!

Specifically for Windows 8:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_(epidemiology)

A cluster refers to a grouping of health-related events that are related temporally and in proximity.[1] Typically, when clusters are recognized, they are reported to public health departments in the local area. The 1854 cholera outbreak which occurred in London is a classical example of a cluster. If clusters are of sufficient size and importance, they may be re-evaluated as outbreaks.

I guess that the release of Windows 8 is comparable in size, and seriousness, think at all the people that won't get anymore CTS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpal_tunnel_syndrome

but will start developing the new "GAS" (Gorilla Arm Syndrome) :ph34r: :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchscreen#.22Gorilla_arm.22

jaclaz

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Microsoft tries a new Windows 8 damage control message

This extremely interesting article touches on several issues that we've been covering in this thread. Instead of picking highlights as usual, I'll ask everybody to read it and hope that you'll all come back with your own favorite quotes. If nobody does that, then I'll inflict my own selections on you... ;)

--JorgeA

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