JorgeA

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

6,162 posts in this topic

I seem to remember we were on page 157.

My last post #3093 is halfway down page 155.

I have a strong suspicion a bunch of posts have gorn.

You may be right, but I have only found one ( of mine ) missing so far. If you actually saw a missing page or two then please run a search into any and all cache folders used by your browser(s) for "Deeper Impressions". Do this before they get overwritten! It may already be too late because in Opera even set at 200 MB cache they are already gone for me!

NOTE: the number of pages in a thread is relative to a preference setting in the MSFN cookies. Mine is set for maximum ( I think 150 ) posts per page, consequently we are presently on page 21. If you can tell us how many posts per page you are set to and how many missing pages we can get a general estimate of number of missing comments.

EDIT: Rats! Just saw that database error thing when I posted. Wonder how long before we go down again!

EDIT2: Seen again after this edit. I notice that the default page font gets switched when this occurs.

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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I am getting 19 posts per page.

I think it is one or one and a bit pages missing.

If anyone has shadow copies - might be able to fish something out of there with shadowexplorer - I haven't got anything useful, sadly.

Edited by SIW2
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Microsoft: Brain impulses shows people really do like in-app Windows 8 ads ( NeoWin 2013-06-05 )

Microsoft's Natasha Hritzuk, the head of the company's consumer global insights team, talks about the results of the Nielsen NeuroFocus study, saying:

  • The most interesting result from my perspective is that brands advertised in Windows 8 apps experienced a halo effect, e.g. advertising on Windows 8 drives perceptions that the advertised brands are more interesting, innovative and compelling because they are being showcased in a new, interesting ad platform. The unique design approach of Windows 8, which allows for an immersive app experience, while being non-intrusive is a key driver of that.

Di3ipH7.jpg

Talk about breaking down precedents and establishing new ones. I can't believe I supported and defended this company for years. Putting ads in a "paid" software or operating system is bad enough because it's like getting ads on subscription TV like HBO. But then sponsoring more fake studies to tell us that we actually like it! :blink: Apparently they will stop at nowhere. It reminds me of how the channel listing on cable TV evolved from a useful full screen of ... wait for it ... channel listings back in the late 1970's, to what we see now ... a little sliver of channel listings ( one or two at a time ) and the rest of the screen devoted to advertisements. How are they not an evil corporation now ( something I would have never said in the past )? How is the term: Micro$oft not entirely appropriate? They are now completely indefensible.

Study Crowns Internet Explorer 10 as the Most Energy Efficient Browser ( Maximum PC 2013-06-07 )

IE 10 is Most Energy Efficient Web Browser for Windows 8 ( Tom's Hardware 2013-06-08 )

rotflmao.gif A late April Fools joke? :no: They're serious. Maybe they meant: Study Crowns Internet Explorer 10 as the Most Malware Efficient Browser? Well believe it or not, MSIE currently really is the most energy efficient browser on my computers, as they get almost no use here they are consuming almost no energy whatsoever! :lol:

Microsoft won't say if IE11 will be made for Windows 7 ( NeoWin 2013-06-05 )

Oh puhlease, who do they think they are kidding? This happens every single time. Microsoft always has a choice to release MSIE for all their existing operating systems, all it would require is intelligent coding as a portable app without relying on tons of crap in the registry. But that ship has sailed. So go ahead. Cut off Windows 7 from using the latest MSIE, I dare you. And then look at the fragmented browser usage stats and wonder exactly why that is.

EDIT: same old driver error seen when posting this one here. If you refresh from that page I believe a duplicate post then gets submitted.

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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Uh Oh Microsoft, AMD Wants to See Other OSes (Android and Chrome) ( Maximum PC 2013-06-06 )

Never has the future of Microsoft looked as uncertain as it does right now. Not only are PC sales down, but Windows 8 is such a drastic change over previous versions, it has OEMs and hardware makers looking at supporting alternative platforms. That includes AMD, which revealed at Computex that it's suddenly interested in developing hardware for Google's open source Android and Chrome OS platforms.

Could this be the 2nd baby step away from monopolistic Microsoft domination? Jump up to Post #3088 for the earlier, and I think important news about Intel based devices without Windows. The funny thing is that these moves will hurt Microsoft far less than the bad publicity in the short term. In the long term it could go either way, but this is certainly how it would begin, in small baby steps, chinks in the armor, flies in the ointment ...

Modern design at Microsoft. Going beyond flat design. ( microsoft.com/en-us/news/stories/design/ )

Microsoft's product design themes explained in new article ( NeoWin 2013-06-07 )

The top link is to a Microsoft website that only a MetroTard could love. It is a digital celebration of every bone-headed retro-evolutionary move they have done since they began their quest for irrelevance a couple years ago in 2010. In there you will see every possible demonstration of graphical user interface reversion, revisionism and revulsion that you can stomach. This is their own back-patting flag-waving historical tribute to the NuMicrosoft way of thinking of dumbing down their users into Neo-AppleTards. Only worse. Ironically I only see a quick little image of MCE ( the Windows XP Media Center Edition app ) but with no mention of it in the text. They mention the Xbox dashboard, but no discussion of either the Win98 active desktop channels or the Windows System Tray or the Vista and Win7 desktop gadgets. These last three are certainly the earliest prototypes for the bulk of the Metro debacle. The MCE "fast and fluid" typefaces are key to the "Modern" design language and date as far back as 2003 I believe. The only thing they didn't ripoff from earlier Windows were those lame one or two color icons commonly seen on street signs and handicap parking spots for, oh, the two or three past decades. I'm not sure this term NuMicrosoft is really appropriate at all. There is nothing Nu or New here, at all. They should probably just change their logo to a masked thief, or at best to the recycle bin, because all they have really done is regurgitate lots of old stuff into an intelligence sucking front-end for MetroTards. Here is my proposal ...

ls4UVUW.jpg

Spotted: Boot to desktop for Windows 8.1 settings pane ( NeoWin 2013-06-07 )

Look everybody, Microsoft has apparently rediscovered the concept of checkbox choices. But they clearly worded it wrong ...

Windows 8.1 Start button finally shown off on video ( NeoWin 2013-06-07 )

Jensen Harris is back, this time with a live presentation showing off all the good work that Microsoft has been busy doing thanks to all their listening to customers! It is quite pathetic if you ask me. Just jump to 1:32 where he shows the desktop with the "Start Screen Button" that no-one ever asked for ( you could press the Windows key to jump into the Playskool Tiles! ). And then ... as he jumps between the desktop and Metro and back ... the crowd inexplicably applauds! What are they nuts? They cannot possibly be cheering for a button that merely jumps to the Playskool interface. Can they? How is this not the most patently absurd thing they have ever done? How is this not the biggest FU ever flipped to their customers in history?

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Windows 8.1 Start button finally shown off on video ( NeoWin 2013-06-07 )

Jensen Harris is back, this time with a live presentation showing off all the good work that Microsoft has been busy doing thanks to all their listening to customers! It is quite pathetic if you ask me. Just jump to 1:32 where he shows the desktop with the "Start Screen Button" that no-one ever asked for ( you could press the Windows key to jump into the Playskool Tiles! ). And then ... as he jumps between the desktop and Metro and back ... the crowd inexplicably applauds! What are they nuts? They cannot possibly be cheering for a button that merely jumps to the Playskool interface. Can they? How is this not the most patently absurd thing they have ever done? How is this not the biggest FU ever flipped to their customers in history?

We never see the audience or the whole stage. How do we know that there isn't a neon sign above the stage, directing the audience to clap or cheer at certain times? Who makes up the audience, anyway? Could well be a rent-a-crowd, for all we know. Even so, the clapping didn't sound all that enthusiastic to me.

Terrible production values, BTW -- not only could I hardly make out what the guy was saying, but it was the sort of video I'd expect from a movie surreptitiously taped off the screen at a theater showing.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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Tying together a theme we've been touching on in this thread, with a topic that's been in the news this week:

New Xbox by NSA partner Microsoft will watch you 24/7

Possible privacy violations by Microsoft’s upcoming Xbox One have come under new scrutiny since it was revealed Thursday that the tech giant was a crucial partner in an expansive Internet surveillance program conducted by the National Security Agency and involving Silicon Valley’s biggest players.

One of the console’s key features is the full integration of the Kinect, a motion sensing camera that allows users to play games, scroll through menus, and generally operate the Xbox just using hand gestures. Microsoft has touted the camera as the hallmark of a new era of interactivity in gaming.

What Microsoft has not promoted, however, is the fact that you will not be able to power on the console without first enabling the Kinect, designed to detect both heartbeats and eye movement. and positioning yourself in front of it.

Disturbingly, a recently published Microsoft patent reveals the Kinect has the capability to determine exactly when users are viewing ads broadcast by the Xbox through its eye movement tracking. Consistent ad viewers would be granted rewards, according to the patent.

[emphasis added]

:ph34r: :angrym:

--JorgeA

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An interesting analysis of the Start Button fiasco here -- see post 13 from someone who clearly has a sense of the history.

It is clear that despite end users wishes for a proper Start Menu in Windows 8 - Microsoft have ignored this request and are just putting a start button on which takes you back into the Start Screen. To me that is a pain in the backside and useless as most of the time I use multiple programs on the desktop and I don't want the entire screen covered up just so I can use another program and then have to go back into the desktop time and time again. I want a simple small menu at the side that I can just click the windows icon and load an extra program into the main screen, just like Start8 does, and like Linux has done for years. Even Android has a menu system at the bottom left that shows previously run programs and allows you to easily switch between the various ones without taking over the entire screen on the Motorola Xoom, so I don't know how Microsoft are trying to make it more like a "tablet" with this new start screen.

I'm not sure that I agree with everything he says, especially the final paragraph in the post, but it's certainly provocative and worth thinking about.

--JorgeA

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Windows 8 Continues to Fail has a quite interesting comparison between Vista and Win 8 user share, during the first year after their launch.

Not at all surprisingly, Vista did way better! :D

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Not at all surprisingly, Vista did way better! :D

because Vista was much better and usable compared to Windows 8. without 3rd party tools Windows 8 is unusable.

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Windows 8 Continues to Fail has a quite interesting comparison between Vista and Win 8 user share, during the first year after their launch.

Not at all surprisingly, Vista did way better! :D

Good find, I completely missed this one. All posts by "haterz" like SJVN should be prominently displayed since they drive the 'Tards absolutely crazy ...

Windows 8 continues to fail ( Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols ZDNet 2013-06-02 )

( NOTE: I didn't even know who SJVN was until a few pages back in this thread where "HalloweenDocument" pointed him out to me. Now I see he is Linux aficionado and that is all it takes to light the fuse of MicroZealots :lol: ) Here is the first chart he shows for Vista vs. Windows 8 at going on 8 months ...

HnR6MOU.png

... and note that the Zealots immediately say "but there are more computers now so a percentage point means more than it did 5 years ago". Well, fair enough, that is simple math. However percentage is still percentage, therefore it is smaller marketshare, period. Additionally, they must ignore the two biggest differences which are much more significant variables:

  • (1) Vista was released in January, while Windows 8 was a carefully timed holiday release in October, exactly the same as Windows XP which they so badly want to kneecap.
    (2) This Windows 8 abortion was let out for the firesale price of $39 or even much less for almost 4 months. We don't really know the OEM price to manufacturers but it isn't a stretch to guess that they also cut them some slack in order to fill the pipeline.

Therefore, even with massive wind at its back, this pOS abomination still can't get the traction that Vista had, and Vista is the most obvious Microsoft failure of recent times. MicroZealots and MetroTards, stick that in your pipe and smoke it. :lol:

EDIT: typo

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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Recap of the huge news of the past two days, mentioned here by Jorge and in at least one other thread. These are ordered very roughly sequentially ( the posted date/times are all over the place thanks to idi0tic javascripts ) ...

UK gathering secret intelligence via covert NSA operation. Exclusive: UK security agency GCHQ gaining information from world's biggest internet firms through US-run Prism programme ( UK Guardian 2013-06-07 )

Glenn Greenwald: U.S. wants to destroy privacy worldwide ( Politico 2013-06-07 )

U.S., British intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies in broad secret program ( Washington Post 2013-06-06 )

Leaked documents show massive surveillance effort by NSA, FBI on consumer services ( The Verge 2013-06-06 )

Sources: NSA sucks in data from 50 companies ( The Week 2013-06-06 )

U.S. government confirms PRISM surveillance program, tech companies deny involvement ( TechSpot 2013-06-07 )

Anonymous leaks NSA documents linked to PRISM ( TechSpot 2013-06-07 )

NSA Collecting Data Straight from Google, Apple, Microsoft ( Tom's Hardware 2013-06-07 )

Whistleblower’s NSA warning: ‘Just the tip of the iceberg’ ( Washington Times 2013-06-07 )

Government likely to open criminal probe into NSA leaks: officials ( Reuters 2013-06-07 )

Microsoft denies participating in US online intelligence gathering efforts ( NeoWin 2013-06-07 )

Phone spying and PRISM internet surveillance: what's the difference? ( The Verge 2013-06-07 )

Justice Department Fights Release of Secret Court Opinion Finding Unconstitutional Surveillance ( Mother Jones 2013-06-07 )

Boundless Informant: the NSA's secret tool to track global surveillance data ( UK Guardian 2013-06-08 )

NSA Prism: Why I'm boycotting US cloud tech - and you should too. 'Not subject to American law' - the next desirable IT feature ( UK Register 2013-06-08 )

Director of National Intelligence issues fact sheet on PRISM in response to leaks ( The Verge 2013-06-08 )

The news that immediately caught the attention of the PC universe ...

Equally unusual is the way the NSA extracts what it wants, according to the document: “Collection directly from the servers of these U.S. Service Providers: Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, PalTalk, AOL, Skype, YouTube, Apple.”

Indeed Microsoft wasn't just another company on the list, it appears she heads the list, as the first entry leading the proverbial charge ...

Congress obliged with the Protect America Act in 2007 and the FISA Amendments Act of 2008, which immunized private companies that cooperated voluntarily with U.S. intelligence collection. PRISM recruited its first partner, Microsoft, and began six years of rapidly growing data collection beneath the surface of a roiling national debate on surveillance and privacy.

Hmmm. Hot on the heels of the Vista fiasco and in the process of releasing the "fixed" Windows 7, NuMicrosoft was diving into bed with the Feds allegedly because of favorable legislation that granted them immunity for cooperating and giving up their customers. Very nice.

They also have this little tidbit ...

Dropbox, the cloud storage and synchronization service, is described as “coming soon.”

That cloud thing is all of a sudden looking pretty sucky. The darkside outsiders like Rapid and Mega suddenly look pretty friendly, right? :yes:

For their part Microsoft ( and all the others ) have issued canned responses that are pretty much boilerplate ...

Microsoft also provided a statement: “We provide customer data only when we receive a legally binding order or subpoena to do so, and never on a voluntary basis. In addition we only ever comply with orders for requests about specific accounts or identifiers. If the government has a broader voluntary national security program to gather customer data we don’t participate in it.”

Of course, there are holes in these responses big enough to drive the proverbial truck through. I gotta say that it is entirely possible that these companies like Microsoft are actually telling the truth here. It is unfortunately the case that certain agencies ( Never Say Anything ) have the means to physically connect to any installation right under their noses without ever being noticed, and smart people should just assume it is already the case.

This is certainly bad timing for Microsoft as it plows ahead with their methodical customer suicide. Microsoft may be no worse than any other company today but given its unique position as operating system facilitator of all software and DRM on most computers, they will catch the most he!!, and deservedly so. Considering the Azure cloud, and their two-year long self-serving attack on Windows users with the abomination called Winows 8, and the ongoing Xbox debacle and Kinect, now is a fine time to review Microsoft Patent #20120278904.

What's that word again? Oh yeah. Karma. :yes:

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Recap of the huge news of the past two days, mentioned here by Jorge and in at least one other thread. These are ordered very roughly sequentially

Fantastic roundup of articles, thank you. Took me all morning to get through them, but it was time well spent.

Here's the most perceptive comment I've seen, from a techie perspective, about the NSA snooping program:

the public would be much more accepting of this behaviour if the NSA gave away a browser, search engine, provided a free mapping service and hosted email.

The comment would make me laugh if it didn't make me cry. Too many of us would willingly accept that deal -- those who think they're too insignificant for the government to care about, or who think that "I've got nothing to hide." A classic description of the concept of selling your birthright for a mess of pottage...

--JorgeA

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One more thing. About the spooks getting into your Dropbox: it's a good argument for encrypting the files that you store in the cloud. Before uploading, encrypt them yourself on top of whatever password protection Dropbox or similar services place on your stuff.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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One more thing. About the spooks getting into your Dropbox: it's a good argument for encrypting the files that you store in the cloud. Before uploading, encrypt them yourself on top of whatever password protection Dropbox or similar services place on your stuff.

Makes you question everything we know, doesn't it?

For example, just take simple password security. The problem, what we believe is their strength against current computer power as opposed to what is actually possible by No Such Agency who are equipped under a black budget with innumerable computers that we can assume can be reconfigured into endless massively parallel arrangements using algorithms that are so secret we cannot begin to imagine. Methods from World War II and earlier are just now being talked about, the Cold War stuff is semi-secret, anything since the 1960's should be taken with a grain of salt. I expect about another 100 years before it is discussed what is now occurring today with regards to capabilities and methods.

if you ever tried brute force cracking passwords that you yourself designed, you get an idea of how unstable this security can be, especially with length and charset. In the early days there were some DOS tools but then a wave of Windows programs using various known methods arrived. They will process at certain "attempts per second" and it is interesting to go back and try the same exact software and passwords against newer CPUs. I have some I messed around with since the 4.77 MHz era ( earliest PC's ) until the 3+ GHz single core systems, a greater than thousand-fold growth once you factor in improved architecture and overclocking. People got entirely too comfortable with the old "it will take 500 years to crack this..." as expected. But then some unexpected things happened that IMHO should have reset those expectations accordingly. Variations like dictionary attacks and other 3D strategies, the use of multiple threads and processors, and the extraordinary abilities of using the GPU or several in tandem ( or thousands :yes: ) has wiped out that predictability now. It's probably true that for every CPU bought for government spying, they buy 1000 GPUs. No, check that. It is very likely they have their own fabs and just bang out the chips they need to leave no trail for regular people to spot. This means they have unlimited processing power, and all those lists of supercomputer ratings and such are just distractions.

Therefore if you hand them a scrambled password or message I think it is logical to assume they will crack it as quickly as you desire it, and not just because of the raw processing power. You have to assume that significant research goes into the quirks of ferreting out password lengths, maximum length and allowed chars ( these are defining limitations of so many "secure" places ), and just by getting this info routes a given cracking job into a different optimized set of processes. I expect that even greater effort has already been expended on characterizing the details of every known encryption algorithm and ultra-refined processes are probably set up for deciphering each and every one of them. What is scary is that things like NTFS encryption and RSA and many others like PGP have been around for a long time, decades, and that is truly an eternity in the cryptographic world. And after all this, there are things we cannot even think of.

Consequently I wouldn't bet my life on anything really being secure against them - the government. I personally believe they can crack anything, but they might not even have to if Microsoft or others just handed over the keys to the front door and the back door. Therefore you can put me down into the category of 'people can keep no secrets from the government, only from each other'. This is not to say we should put stuff in the clear! Making strong passwords will thwart most people and companies. So for cloud storage using combinations of several encryptions can approach impossibility for snooping by anyone ( probably even Microsoft ) except the government. This is IMHO naturally.

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Another angle on the topic, with some interesting history as a bonus:

USA to legalize rootkits, spyware, ransomware and trojans to combat piracy?

By now most users will already be familiar with ransomware, either because they have been affected by it themselves at some point or because they have seen it on a friend's PC. Ransomware usually refers to a special category of malware that essentially tries to hold a user's computer and files hostage and demands payment of a ransom in exchange for returning control of the computer back to the user.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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