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JorgeA

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

6,162 posts in this topic

the effect I can see at user level is (of course IMHO) a regression in quality of apps

Perhaps because it somewhat lowers the barrier to entry (we've all seen the results of "classic" VB) but on the other hand it lets you create better and more advanced things faster too. Given skilled programmers, on the same budget and time frame, it far improves the quality IMHO. And given infinite resources, then it's mainly a matter of programming-related skills (and things like understanding the problem domain better, etc)

Either ways, as much of a C# fanboy as I am (it's my fav language for Windows development by far), if Windows continues in the same direction as it did with Win8 then Windows is dead to me, and I'll move on to a "lesser" language (and toolchain/IDE/...) but on an OS that's not absurdly nonsensical (that means either Objective C or C++/Qt and OS X)

As for Windows Phone pricing, it's just really funny. It didn't stand a chance at half that price anyway.

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Nokia has priced their upcoming Lumia 920 smartphone higher than Samsungs Galaxy S III, a move that has analysts wondering how the Finnish phone maker plans on justifying the premium. In some markets, Nokias flagship phone will sell for 25 percent more than the S III.

Italy ...

Lumia 920 :: €599 (USA $771)

Lumia 820 :: €499 (USA $643)

Samsung Galaxy S III :: €530

[etc.]

Unfreakingbelievable!!

Never mind that these Windows 8 phones are considerably more expensive than their established competitors (yeah, Sinofsky's a visionary genius, I know). I just can't see myself walking around town with a $700 device in my pocket that cost more than any computer I've bought in this millennium, and which would be so easy to lose at a restaurant table or to a skilled pickpocket. Can I tether it to my belt? But I'd still be running the risk of dropping it or having it crushed by stepping or sitting on it. No way, I don't have money to burn.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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Paul Thurrott discusses Microsoft's plans to transition from a sales to a feudal rent model for their software:

Microsoft’s new naming scheme is actually based, I think, on the company’s move to online services, where products such as Windows Intune and Office 365 have always come sans version numbering because it’s Microsoft, not you, that needs to manage these services behind the scenes. The organizations that adopt these services know that they’ll be updated with both new features and bug fixes over time, and that they’ll be moved forward to these new “versions” automatically as part of an ongoing subscription.

And that’s the crux of what’s happening here. With Office 2013, yes, Microsoft will sell you traditional versions of the software, just as it will sell you traditional, on-premises versions of Exchange 2013. But what Microsoft really wants to sell you is the subscription and services-based versions of these products. And in such cases, version numbers suddenly are a lot less meaningful. Over time, maybe the versions with version numbers just . . . disappear.

So, what happens when a new feature or bug fix ends up breaking something, or making things worse? Without knowledge of an impending update or the choice to postpone or decline it, all users are saddled with the problem for as long as MS takes to address it. No longer can you or I adopt the strategy of waiting for reports on the update's effects from others who have installed it.

--JorgeA

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Since Charlie Chaplin, Gecko lizards and common fruit were already spoken for ...

Windows 8 digital graffiti artists wanted by Microsoft ( NeoWin 2012-09-28 )

Nothing sadder than Redmond bureaucrats paying a firm to portray them as Seattle hipsters. Or in this case gang bangers marking up the walls of buildings. To be sure, this may be a step or two below gang colors. I just can't see crips and bloods spray painting sesame street or playskool colored blocks!

JPEG 1.9 MB ... Graffiti_bg.jpg

But what I'm still wondering about after having clicked around for answers to no avail, is this text at the Microsoft Advertising site ...

Breaking boundaries – it’s what urban mural artists do daily. That’s why we invited a few of the best to turn our vision of digital on its head with the tools of their trade: spray paint, the canvas of the streets, and sheer imagination. The result? A jaw-dropping visual exploration of creativity and connection. When it comes to digital advertising, there are no limits. Brands create the message, we tag the world.

Why break boundaries in this way? With the advent of Windows 8, Microsoft introduces a new advertising canvas. We are kicking the old way of digital advertising to the curb with something fresh, modern, and revolutionary. And we are looking for digital graffiti artists.

Yep, that first paragraph is nothing but a steaming pile of advertising pooh written by a team of overpaid underachievers. But in that last sentence are they tipping their hand? The website really says nothing at all which is pretty much par for the course from Microsoft. So we are left to infer a meaning. Could this be the start of product placement in the kindergarten color squares of Windows 8 and Metro on the desktops of hundreds of millions of unsuspecting users around the world?

Any guesses?

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Perhaps because it somewhat lowers the barrier to entry (we've all seen the results of "classic" VB) but on the other hand it lets you create better and more advanced things faster too. Given skilled programmers, on the same budget and time frame, it far improves the quality IMHO. And given infinite resources, then it's mainly a matter of programming-related skills (and things like understanding the problem domain better, etc)

Yes, most probably that's the perverted effect. :yes:

@Charlotte the Harlot

You might want to appreciate how the good MS designers have made things easier for the street artists: they can bring with them just 4 (5 including the one for the border) colours, so they can run faster!

And Apple is anyway ahead ;):

Final-Graffiti-Apple-and-Hands.jpg

Only for historical reasons (and OT :ph34r:):

picture-2-19-14-52.png

jaclaz

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I wonder when will messages saying "Do NOT Share your Touch-Screen" will appears as health related warnings.

I mean i've seen some man sneezing at his iPad, you know mucus and all ...

Has there any scientifc study about touch-screen as contagious disease vectors?

There probably have been studies about this, but for a potent demonstration of the dangers, see the movie "Contagion." :ph34r:

--JorgeA

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Breaking boundaries – it’s what urban mural artists do daily. That’s why we invited a few of the best to turn our vision of digital on its head with the tools of their trade: spray paint, the canvas of the streets, and sheer imagination. The result? A jaw-dropping visual exploration of creativity and connection. When it comes to digital advertising, there are no limits. Brands create the message, we tag the world.

Why break boundaries in this way? With the advent of Windows 8, Microsoft introduces a new advertising canvas. We are kicking the old way of digital advertising to the curb with something fresh, modern, and revolutionary. And we are looking for digital graffiti artists.

Yep, that first paragraph is nothing but a steaming pile of advertising pooh written by a team of overpaid underachievers. But in that last sentence are they tipping their hand? The website really says nothing at all which is pretty much par for the course from Microsoft. So we are left to infer a meaning. Could this be the start of product placement in the kindergarten color squares of Windows 8 and Metro on the desktops of hundreds of millions of unsuspecting users around the world?

Any guesses?

If they start putting live ads on the Metro Start Screen, I would hope that that would be the final nail in the coffin for Windows 8.

Although I do note that a recent Microsoft.com Panel survey tested respondents' reactions to having ads on the Xbox home screen (or whatever they call it). Dunno what the results were, but I sure would have given the thumbs-down :thumbdown to that idea.

Finally, in line with your speculation, see the last paragraph in the Neowin post that you linked to:

In related news, Microsoft Advertising has also launched the final version of the Microsoft Advertising SDK for Windows 8. This tool will allow Windows 8 app creators to place ads inside their apps.

I can just picture working hard at the computer to write down a sudden flash of insight, only to have my flow interrupted and the insight gone POOF by some ad dancing and blinking across my screen. :angrym:

--JorgeA

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Yep! Advertising is the next step. They will call it Windows Shopping v9.0 :thumbup

P.S. This post is an irony - so treat it as such. ;)

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Yep! Advertising is the next step. They will call it Windows Shopping v9.0 :thumbup

P.S. This post is an irony - so treat it as such. ;)

LOL :rolleyes::(

--JorgeA

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Win8 sky rocked to 0.30% marketig share :D

The adoption rate is pathetic compared to Win7 at a similar stage, and out of these poor bast early adopters, 75% prefer another OS as we've seen in the news recently (the forumswindows8 survey)

Everything about Win8 screams of failure on a very large scale...

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It's very impressive the fact that Windows XP (an 11 years-old OS) has 41% market share...

Windows 7 will be in the same situation in 2023 IF Sinofsky will still be in charge of Windows development.

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Win8 sky rocked to 0.30% marketig share :D

The adoption rate is pathetic compared to Win7 at a similar stage

Yup, unlike with Windows 7 vs. Vista there is manifestly no great public clamor for what The Two Steves are offering, despite the best efforts of 'Softie fandom to drum up enthusiasm for Windows 8.

--JorgeA

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It's very impressive the fact that Windows XP (an 11 years-old OS) has 41% market share...

Windows 7 will be in the same situation in 2023 IF Sinofsky will still be in charge of Windows development.

Agreed!

XP's durability has sure been amazing. Shows you that they got it just about right then.

I suspect than in 2023, XP and Vista and 7 will be viewed as the high point of Microsoft OS's. <going out on a limb> Who knows, maybe we'll even be looking at MS the way we look today at, say, Digital Research Inc.

--JorgeA

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Win8 sky rocked to 0.30% marketig share :D

The adoption rate is pathetic compared to Win7 at a similar stage, and out of these poor bast early adopters, 75% prefer another OS as we've seen in the news recently (the forumswindows8 survey)

Everything about Win8 screams of failure on a very large scale...

Glad you mentioned that ...

Windows 8 has five times less pre-release users than Windows 7 ( NeoWin 2012-10-02 )

"Alright, so Windows 8 isn’t even out yet – it shouldn’t matter how many people are using it, right? Well, that’s true to an extent, but a whopping 1.64% of Windows users felt like installing a pre-release version of Windows 7 a month before it was released. Compared to that, only about 0.33% of users are running Windows 8; five times less. To put that in perspective, Windows 7 already had as many users as Windows 8 six months before release."

:lol::lol::lol:

Microsoft Windows 8 : Vistro! ( Because it has fail written all over it. )

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"Alright, so Windows 8 isnt even out yet it shouldnt matter how many people are using it, right? Well, thats true to an extent, but a whopping 1.64% of Windows users felt like installing a pre-release version of Windows 7 a month before it was released. Compared to that, only about 0.33% of users are running Windows 8; five times less. To put that in perspective, Windows 7 already had as many users as Windows 8 six months before release."

As noted before, obviously there is no public clamor for this FrankenOS.

I went in to see how the Neowin fanboys would try to spin that one. Curiously, there didn't seem to be any attempt in the article itself, while the comments are decidedly mixed.

Windows 8: a solution to a problem that no user felt.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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I have to quote my post from above for this update to make sense.

Since Charlie Chaplin, Gecko lizards and common fruit were already spoken for ...

Windows 8 digital graffiti artists wanted by Microsoft ( NeoWin 2012-09-28 )

Nothing sadder than Redmond bureaucrats paying a firm to portray them as Seattle hipsters. Or in this case gang bangers marking up the walls of buildings. To be sure, this may be a step or two below gang colors. I just can't see crips and bloods spray painting sesame street or playskool colored blocks!

JPEG 1.9 MB ... Graffiti_bg.jpg

Rapper causes an uproar at a Microsoft Store ( NeoWin 2012-10-02 )

The Houston-born rapper was promoting his debut album, Lace up when he struck nerves in the Microsoft store when his performance escalated and resulted in him jumping onto tables which were filled with laptops and desktops, throwing Microsoft’s promotional signs, and of course giving the middle finger to Microsoft employees.

More at link, including video.

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As noted before, obviously there is no public clamor for this FrankenOS.

I went in to see how the Neowin fanboys would try to spin that one. Curiously, there didn't seem to be any attempt in the article itself, while the comments are decidedly mixed.

Windows 8: a solution to a problem that no user felt.

--JorgeA

How does one even make sense of the following two articles ...

Windows 8 previews tested on over 16 million PCs ( NeoWin 2012-08-01 )

Windows 8 was the widest and most deeply tested OS in Microsoft's history according to Steven Sinofsky [Official Destroying Windows Blog], which he believes means that the world is ready for Windows 8 and its new workflow. Seeing as Windows 8 was tested so widely when compared to previous iterations of Windows, it should signify that Windows 8 will be another rock solid OS out of Redmond.

Windows 8 has five times less pre-release users than Windows 7 ( NeoWin 2012-10-02 )

"Alright, so Windows 8 isn’t even out yet – it shouldn’t matter how many people are using it, right? Well, that’s true to an extent, but a whopping 1.64% of Windows users felt like installing a pre-release version of Windows 7 a month before it was released. Compared to that, only about 0.33% of users are running Windows 8; five times less. To put that in perspective, Windows 7 already had as many users as Windows 8 six months before release."
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Here are some impressions of the recovery experience...

- Accessing the F8 menu is difficult, if not impossible, on UEFI 2.3.1 hardware. By design, Windows disables USB input devices (such as keyboards) during boot for one...

- Getting to the Recovery option is tricky and requires digging through menus.

- The Refresh option is a welcome return (akin to repair install in XP) but has a habit of removing drivers, including the Realtek Audio Controller driver THAT COMES WITH WINDOWS 8! :blink: Fortunately there is an HTML file on the desktop that tells you what was removed.

- The "Replace" type option that formats the drive and reinstalls Windows TAKE AT LEAST 2 HOURS! :no: I suspect that unlike Windows 7 full recovery, Windows 8 doesn't do a quick format prior to reinstalling the recovery image.

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If I may, things should be put into historical context.

When 2K - actually (IMHO) a very good OS - much better than XP for "serious" uses, came out, there was an initial set of issues/problems, which were actually solved with SP1 or SP2, which came out rather quickly.

ALL (or nearly all) new users of win2K were actually long time users of NT 4.00 (many coming from NT 3.51) and came from an exceptionally stable OS.

When XP came out, most of those that had 2K, in the meantime become "mature", kept using it. :thumbup and only upgraded to XP when actually "forced" by either the lack of support (drivers) for new hardware or by Commercial strategies.

In practice NO Windows 98 user ever used 2K, they went "directly" to XP, often passing through Me.

So, the mass of the new XP users came from Me :w00t: , no surprise they found the XP such a great OS.

The mass of new 7 users came from Vista :ph34r:, again not that much surprise that 7 was such a success.

Now the situation - as I see it - is not unlike the "shift" from 98SE to Me.

BTW, Me was a much better OS than Windows 98 SE (as it had a number of things "migrated" from NT/2K) it was simply "killed as a child" by the MS Commercial policies of pushing XP outside it's intended scope (still XP is far less suitable to single user/"not corporate networked" PC's than 98/Me).

And if you remember most of the whining about Me was about the (forced) removal of "pure DOS" (which was a heresy for the 9X users and is actually still a heresy from a technical standpoint).

In practice MS had TWO good OS's at the time:

  1. Windows 98 Se
  2. Windows NT

the first perfectly suited for home use and the second for "serious"/business use.

Windows NT "naturally evolved" into Win 2K.

Windows Me was a (failed, but as said IMHO only because it was abandoned too early) attempt to re-use some of the good technologies developed for Windows 2000 on the still better "home/game" suited Windows 98Se.

Not that much of a proof, but remember that (roughly) a Windows 2000 machine needed to work smoothly DOUBLE the RAM of a correspondent Windows 98/Me machine.

Casually :whistle: I have a laptop that was "announced" as having Windows 98 SE, but it was actually delivered with Windows Me (with 64 Mb of Ram).

Though the Me worked allright, I had reasons to install 2K and consequently added a 64 Mb stick to the thingy.

Then the geniuses at MS had a better thought, since hardware was getting cheaper, instead of adding security/stability coming from the NT "branch" to the "DOS branch", they decided to add playful looks to 2K and force it to BOTH the 9x/Me users and to the 2K users.

For the new users, XP was nice, for the old time NT/2K users it was an abomination of unneeded eye-candy wich brought no advantages, for the old time 9x/Me users it was an abomination of complexity and of things they liked (games, mainly) not working anymore.....

But it was a success (for MS, mainly because they re-merged together - at the customer expense - two developing branches) and still, though being (as I see it ) a bettered Win2K, only worse ;), XP has been a good OS, a lot of people have become used to it, and this is why Vista :ph34r: was a shock to them.

Now that things have setled down and people is more or less happy about Windows 7 and relative apps (someone has even the courage to say that the "ribbon" is not that bad after all), here comes MS and with the same arrogance and prevarication they had with the Me (unneededly removing the DOS) they are now unneededly removing the "classic" interface replacing it with the NCI .

But obviusly the only thing they are doing (AGAIN) is re-merging two development branches (the desktop and the tablet/phone one) into a single one, (AGAIN) at the expense of the customers.

jaclaz

Edit: corrected a few typos

Edited by jaclaz
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The Houston-born rapper was promoting his debut album, Lace up when he struck nerves in the Microsoft store when his performance escalated and resulted in him jumping onto tables which were filled with laptops and desktops, throwing Microsoft’s promotional signs, and of course giving the middle finger to Microsoft employees.

A dose of their own medicine! After all, MS has kicked the Start Button off the Desktop, trampled on the Start Menu, and given the middle finger to those who object.

--JorgeA

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How does one even make sense of the following two articles ...

Three pre-RTM versions of Windows 8 were released -- the DP, the CP, and the RP. Thus, people interested in checking out the OS could have installed "Windows 8" three different times, bulking up the download numbers. How many totally public pre-RTM versions of Windows 7 were there?

The explanation might be that while Win8 betas may have been downloaded more times than Win7 betas, a higher proportion of Win7 than Win8 previewers ended up using the OS regularly, and so that usage shows up in the market share stats. Therefore the whole bit about Win8 being "the most thoroughly tested OS" strikes me as suspect. A lot of people tried it, saw that it s*cks big time, and (unlike Win7) stopped using it.

--JorgeA

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about Win8 being "the most thoroughly tested OS" strikes me as suspect. A lot of people tried it, saw that it s*cks big time, and (unlike Win7) stopped using it.

Also there is BIG difference between "been thoroughly tested", "been thoroughly tested with success" and "been thoroughly tested with success and user satisfaction"..... :whistle:

jaclaz

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If I may, things should be put into historical context.

That was an illuminating analysis, jaclaz -- thank you. And it makes sense.

I never used Win2K or ME. I jumped from Win98 (and FE, at that!!!) all the way to Vista, so my experience with XP is limited and recent. I imagine that the change for me was probably even bigger than for those who went to XP from either ME or 2000.

--JorgeA

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Paul Allen (remember him?) weighs in on Windows 8 with a nuanced, not fanboyish approach. While expressing excitement over Microsoft's new OS, he also voices concerns over a number of aspects of the Win8 UI:

When the PC or tablet initially starts up, you will see the Start screen, which is a view suited nicely for use from a tablet. Strangely, there is no way to set the desktop as your default view (there should be).
(emphasis added -- he really did write that!)
Now that the Start menu is gone, existing Windows users undoubtedly will wonder where to find the power commands: Sleep, Shut down, and Restart.

To find the power commands, display the Charms bar and then select Settings, which includes a Power button.

I found myself wishing that a Power tile was available on the Start screen to make these commands more accessible.

Allen makes other observations which -- if they had been posted by you or me -- would get us tagged as "trolls" or "haters" by the fanboys. His entire post makes for informative reading.

(Article found via Neowin.)

--JorgeA

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