JorgeA

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

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Yeah, guilty as charged.

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In other news, Microsoft abandons Windows Home Server. I guess there must be more money into pushing for their 2nd rate cloud services. Then again WHS was good idea with a a poor execution, which is very typical of MS.

Meanwhile, Win8 is likely going to RTM in about a week. Their plan seems to be: alienate users by pushing a inadequate tablet UI on existing desktops to p**s off users and drive them to Macs, offer discounted copies to reduce your revenue (the only people who'll buy it at first are the extremists who would have bought it at $150), making piracy difficult to greatly reduce its market share, then once it has its "Vista 2" reputation well established from people using it on their desktops, release your iPad wannabe platform which will be as popular as the Zune or Windows Phone -- just to create confusion due to CPU incompatibilities (and alienate your business partners by releasing your own hardware in the process). There's no way in hell any business is going to touch it, and developer support (mindshare) for Metro seems to be almost non-existent either.

Now they just need to make a poor product demo, where it BSODs or freezes, with almost no information available, and trying to demo hardware that doesn't work. That would be the cherry on top of the fail sundae. Oh, wait...

How could possibly any of this go wrong? The only MS news I care for now is the upcoming headline "MS fires incompetent Ballmer and Sonofski".

Meanwhile, Apple is working on a smaller iPad that will rival other tablets selling at lower price points (basically Android tablets). It's more portable than a regular iPad and it has all the great software (closer to an iPod touch, with a larger screen which is better suited for apps). It should be released sometime between the back-to-school period and the holidays -- perfect timing and execution as usual The're going to sell crazy amounts of them for sure.

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With any luck, someone clever will find a way to hack into Metro and enable saving/copying from it onto their computer. And if they can't, then maybe that will help to hasten the demise of Metro

We are at such point where one wish not hacks to be developed so that W8 can burried and forgotten faster.

Developing apps that redo what Microsoft undoes persistently is a waste of time.

It's ok to fix a semi-decent OS like XP, Vista or 7. But fixing W8? Seriousely?

We have better do a W7 to W8 service pack installing all the good system files from W8 into W7 (as MDGx had done with W98 to ME).

The second thing, is that those who realy like Metro won't need the fix that we will make.

CharlotteTheharlot

Yes, Microsoft is not taking the responsabilities that you described above.

Why removing HLP support on a swollen 12Gb OS while a HLP reader takes, what, 400 Kb?

Sometimes we wonder wether it's deliberate or sheer stupidity.

They are not respecting ethics.

Nut there is no commonly accept ethic in this domain unfortunately. And MS is not the only one.

The software industry is a real mess against common sens and good practice.

It's only about who will write the software the faster and the cheaper, no matter how inneficient, bloated and backward uncompatible it is. Only crap duplication.

It's a lack of respect for the users.

Datas preservation/readability is the most important ethical rule.

Perhaps we could try to enumerate a list of other ethical IT rules:

-Respect CPU usage by producing software which don't cause useless processing operations.

-Respect of Hard Disc space by not inflating uselessly softwares, datas installed installed with this software or generated by thios software

-Respect of Bandwith of the user as well as of the global community by not spamming, uselessly transfer datas, uselessly requiering a connection

-Respect of productivity and of the work of others by creating ergonomical software interfaces.

... etc

But the most important IMO is still the RESPECT of LIBERTY by allowing users to opt in or out.

Here Microsoft is deliberately reducing our Liberty in many ways, in an unprecedented manner.

- The most famous example so far is preventing us to restore the classic start menu.

- The other is to prevent to disable Metro.

- Puting by default tiles for commercial softwares and outright advertising. Tiles which are difficult to remove.

- Making IE10 "metro only".

- Making sure Metro apps can't be used on another environement.

(I bet you money that as we speak there is already file format which you can read only on Metro)

Sinofsky can tell what he wants: I'll bash W8 to the point characters get erased off my keyboard, as long as Metro cannot be easily disabled on Windows 8.

As long as they don't return the options to the users (for the Start Menu and other things) I'll bash Microsoft as a whole, and MSFT as a stock investment more specificaly.

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Another tech observer predicts that Windows 8 will flop:

With its vision of the future finally becoming a reality (thanks entirely to its far cooler rival), Microsoft has gone all out to embrace touch, creating an operating system designed specifically for it, but has thrown its core user base under the bus in the process.

Echoing a sentiment that's been expressed in this thread, the writer asks:

Yes, you can tweak the OS to disable or hide Metro, and clearly there will be lots of freeware tools that will let you completely remove it once Windows 8 has been released. But, really, why would you bother to upgrade to the new OS if all youre going to do is roll it back to Windows 7.5 at the earliest opportunity? Surely its better, and easier, to stick with the OS you already own, and know how to use?

(I do have a possible, personal answer to that one. As a Windows Media Center user, if the WMC pack that we'll be able to buy in addition to Win8 ends up having the same life cycle as the OS, then I would get three more years of WMC support for my HTPC. Of course, there's that big "if" in there -- as a separate add-on, it's entirely possible that MS might treat it separately and eventually forget about WMC as they seem intent on doing. But this would be the only reason for me to buy a single copy of Win8.)

And then there's this writeup, looking ahead to the consequences of a Win8 failure.

Ironically, it is Microsoft that is leading the charge to kill Win32. With WinRT (the API, not the tablet OS), the company is frog marching its developer community away from what has long been its proprietary “ace in the hole”. In Win32’s place, they’re pushing HTML5, a generic, web-centric standard that runs great on all of those non-Windows devices from Apple, Google, Research in Motion, etc.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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Ironically, it is Microsoft that is leading the charge to kill Win32. With WinRT (the API, not the tablet OS), the company is frog marching its developer community away from what has long been its proprietary “ace in the hole”. In Win32’s place, they’re pushing HTML5, a generic, web-centric standard that runs great on all of those non-Windows devices from Apple, Google, Research in Motion, etc.

--JorgeA

This is the 800 pound gorilla in the room. I notice that few of the fanboys will touch it either.

Microsoft is attempting to leverage and cash in on their unique monopoly position: their almost complete domination of the x86 computer world. They are acting out of desperation because other, newer, different markets escaped their grasp, it is palpable. This is their 'all-in' move, betting all the good will they earned, betting all the ground they gained in over 30 years of development. The seething anger at this move is also palpable among those that were part of this same history. Let us remember the path that took Microsoft here.

The old saying 'Dance with the one that brung ya' comes to mind. It is undoubtedly true that the whole free-wheeling 16-bit and 32-bit x86 hardware and software world is who brung ya. This is how they got here. It was primarily the open-architecture driven by IBM (against all logic really, and could now be seen almost as a gift to the world) that invited everyone, hardware or software to the party. It was also Intel who steadily improved the x86 architecture (I believe with IBM input) and gave us the 286 and 386 even before the mid-1980's while Microsoft was not exactly lighting any fires to speak of. The hard work was getting done but most of it not in Redmond. Yes, Microsoft developed a few nice bits of code along the way (Excel and later NT were outstanding), purchased others, and by hook and by crook now control the entire segment. Perhaps the fork at the OS/2 vs NT fiasco is what hurt us, I don't know. Many others were more than capable of also writing an OS, but it is a very tough job, and seems pointless once standards are accepted and the ball is rolling. Nevertheless, Microsoft wound up on top and here we are.

Many of us see betrayal here, it has been mentioned throughout this thread and many others. The 800 pound gorilla in the room is a plan hatched in the executive boardrooms in Redmond, 'how can we create an eco-system completely under our control' (Apple-envy) and 'how can we capitalize and monetize this huge user base we have accumulated'. Put simply, Microsoft wants to build a software system where they are the gatekeepers to what is allowed, they take a Sopranos sized cut on other people's work, they control the advertising and even the OFF switch. It is certainly a new business model for them, and like I said before, Wall Street will no doubt cheer because ethics and morality are in short supply these days. But is it okay? Is it responsible?

To be sure there really are ethical issues, perhaps even legal ones too ('look and feel', anti-trust) that will come in to focus now. But this is almost unprecedented. Try to imagine if after John Rockefeller built Standard Oil and after nearly everyone was using his product he decides to change to natural gas phasing out petroleum so you need to get new cars and he takes a 30% cut on those cars as well, picks the models allowed on the road, and turns them off if he chooses (yeah, no auto analogy is perfect, but this one is very difficult to write because it is so unique). Ethically it is unsavory to take advantage of a captive audience, particularly one you are simply lucky to have in the first place. Microsoft is barely out of the last government action and already I see quite a few possible points of vulnerability. Perhaps they think they have bought off enough Congressman this time around?

Some extra pro-active measures will need to be taken. I hope many more people are contacting their reps in Congress and as well as their State Attorney Generals making sure that Microsoft is kept on a shorter, tighter leash. The Netscape vs. MSIE thing was nothing compared to this. This is treading on dangerous ice with respect to anti-trust and they need to be reminded again and again. Something else that needs to be scrutinized is the OEM hardware industry. We have to make sure Microsoft does not try to pressure them into phasing out older Windows drivers, which is the surest way to murder the previous working OS in favor of the new Windows Tiles. Email MSI and Gigabyte and tell them to continue making Win7 and even WinXP drivers, ignore Microsoft. Again, pressure on the political Reps and State AG's will help, not to mention contacting the OEMs like Dell and HP directly warning them not to collude with Microsoft in an effort to save Metro. This is probably an easier sell now than in the past since Microsoft is actively competing against some of them.

Most importantly we simply have to speak our mind. I feel the same as most commenters here. I can sense the anger. No-one likes to be lied to and no-one likes to be betrayed.

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windows 8 is the best operating system from microsoft.

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windows 8 is the best operating system from microsoft.

You see, that's the WHOLE point :thumbup .

You are perfectly free to post that, it is your opinion, and though you provide NO backing for it, and it is clearly completely WRONG :ph34r:, we do respect that :) (somewhat :rolleyes: )

This is freedom :yes: .

jaclaz

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In other news, Microsoft abandons Windows Home Server. I guess there must be more money into pushing for their 2nd rate cloud services.

There was a major problem with this product. It was sold and supported under the server line, but anyone who bought it would use it on a desktop board. Even Intel only had support for WHS on their Workstation and Server products. I remember getting escalations to me from tech support at my last company where customers bought it couldn't find drivers. But there was nothing we could do since there are few official drivers for desktop boards for Server 2003.

Meanwhile, Win8 is likely going to RTM in about a week.

Its possible this month. I am and am not looking forward to it. Partly because I can't wait to get all this past me, and also I'll have to update to the new WinPEs finally.

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Win8 will be RTM in first week of August and GA in October:

Tami confirmed that Windows 8 is on track to Release to Manufacturing (RTM) the first week of August. For enterprise customers with Software Assurance benefits, they will have full access to Windows 8 bits as early as August. A

Tami went on to say that Windows 8 will reach general availability by the end of October!

http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2012/07/09/upcoming-windows-milestones-shared-with-partners-at-wpc.aspx

Also Microsoft will use 500Mio $ for Windows 8 ads:

http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Fnewsticker%2Fmeldung%2FBericht-Halbe-Milliarde-US-Dollar-fuer-Windows-8-Werbung-1634284.html

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windows 8 is the best operating system from microsoft.

That's quite possibly the best joke I've ever heard! :thumbup

There was a major problem with this product. It was sold and supported under the server line, but anyone who bought it would use it on a desktop board. Even Intel only had support for WHS on their Workstation and Server products. I remember getting escalations to me from tech support at my last company where customers bought it couldn't find drivers. But there was nothing we could do since there are few official drivers for desktop boards for Server 2003.

Well, I'd say it had far more issues than that! It was poorly marketed (typical) and there was seemingly no real product vision. It should have been so much more... It failed to convince typical end users to buy it (it had no real killer feature and did very little besides backups), and it offered way too little for enthusiasts who wanted a real home server.

I am and am not looking forward to it.

I'm looking forward to the the era following the Win8 fiasco. They'll have their chance to make things right, or lose a big slice of the market. Hopefully new top management will restore some sanity.

Microsoft will use 500Mio $ for Windows 8 ads

Apple should show Windows 8 too: "None of this nonsense -- we have a real desktop OS"

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I'm no Apple fan obviously but I have to admit that for the first time ever I am hoping for a new round of commercials this time that skewer what should be named Microsoft Tiles 1.0. Seriously, like most everyone I despised Apple's snotty arrogance, their childish commercials, I even remember that banner back in the 80's from a Cupertino photo (still cannot find it online) of Apple Headquarters with the inexplicable 'Beat Microsoft' banner overhead. I say inexplicable because Apple has never even tried to compete in Microsofts' arena, and were the great beneficiary of important software like Word and Excel. But seeing how Microsoft fanboys are now acting even worse than their counterparts (in other forums) I am completely disgusted. I'm also starting to think that maybe Apple should let OS X out into the market just for the sake of competition (but I would prefer that Windows XP MCE, Vista and 7 were also available of course).

Anyway, you know who must be one of the luckiest guys walking around right now? That Justin dude from the last set of Apple commercials. You know why? He is probably sitting around waiting for the inevitable call for the next campaign which anyone could quickly design to make fun of Windows Retro or Microsoft Tiles or Windows Sesame Street Edition. The material simply writes itself. Splice in the Sinofsky live fail and Microsoft would never live it down, even if they spend $500 Million or $5 Billion. Moreover he could name his price.

... But, the other reason that Justin dude is so lucky is if Apple doesn't call and Microsoft rings him instead. Turning him around in a commercial with praise for the touchscreen and their new childish OS would be a great coup and would demonstrate extremely smart thinking in Redmond. It is for that very reason I guarantee it will never happen.

Micros~1 Windows 8 : We changed our name to better reflect how Windows operates!

EDIT: updated image URL, and again

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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As often happens, OT :w00t: , but not much ;):

http://www.digitalwpc.com/GetInvolved/MSPartnerPerspectives/KarlNoakes/Pages/You-Spoke-We-Listened-The-New-MPN-Brand.aspx#fbid=ECa4Zu_QDFo

You Spoke, We Listened: The New MPN Brand
So without further ado, here is our new MPN logo.

karlMP.jpg

Based on Metro, the look is unencumbered. Simple. Direct. Powerful. Metro is attractive yet functional. It’s typography-driven, and its clarity is striking. That clarity serves a purpose: to capture attention—and business. This logo will lead the eye directly to the message: that you’re a Microsoft partner. And they’ll implicitly understand all that goes with that: the trusted network, the ongoing support, and the best technology.

In fact, the new logo is just one of the brand elements we’ve revamped, creating visual consistency across all touch points. The unified look carries through to Cloud Accelerate, in which you’ll again see clarity as the driving force for direct communication. And with the ever-increasing number of cloud-focused business opportunities, it’s important to highlight the competencies that apply. The new brand does just that.

Every comment is superfluous. :ph34r:

jaclaz

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windows 8 is the best operating system from microsoft.

That's quite possibly the best joke I've ever heard! :thumbup

now you act like Sinofsky. Respect his opinion. If he likes it, he can do this.

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now you act like Sinofsky. Respect his opinion. If he likes it, he can do this.

I still find it funny. You take things far too seriously.

Then again, I'm not actually doing anything like Sinosfsky is (or Ballmer): taking away other people's choices, destroying a great product (their core product/cash cow no less) based on short-sighted and poor analysis of data, pushing for UIs meant for touch devices on touch-less computers, choosing to ignore all feedback when it's overwhelmingly negative, creating a desktop OS that will be "Vista 2" to most people in order to sell tablets and yet still fail spectacularly at that, coming out with confusing and mediocre products that are very rough at the edges (barely what you'd call a "v1" product typically) as their best effort to compete against Apple's highly polished solution (that's also well established and hugely in demand), while coming out with various me-too products (e.g. Azure and Hyper-V), being dead last in markets they pioneered (e.g. tablets and smart phones) and overall always being lagging behind other companies in new products, making it a real pain for developers with ever-changing technology (only to abandon it shortly after), etc.

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