JorgeA

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

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Win8 is an abomination, and even VS11 is doing some questionable changes that have its users rather upset (everything is now grey).

CoffeeFiend,

So the monochromatic look is "in" now, eh?

Put that together with the return of tiles and limited multitasking of the Metro interface, and what we have is a regression to 1980s-era computing.

GEM/2, which allowed the display of only two fixed windows on the "desktop"

Sound familiar? :whistle:

:rolleyes:

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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I don't get Microsoft's sudden infatuation with giving up so much in the domain of efficiency and productivity to satisfy some designer's temper tantrum. Unification of design is nice and all, but it should never come at a cost of productivity and/or efficiency. And it's that capital sin Metro is guilty of. Metro works for simple things, single-use applications. Like stepping through a set of picture, or cycling through a set of Twitter messages. When things get complex and advanced, Metro is far too clumsy with its big texts and its gluttonous usage of screen estate. It are those complex programs one cannot use with touch in mind. As I've said before, in my eyes Metro doesn't bring anything useful to the desktop. On the contrary even.

belgianguy,

Excellent posts you've been putting up -- welcome!

Regarding what you said above, there's a ton of truth to that. I actually got a taste of what it's like for a novice PC user this weekend when I helped my aunt to set up her first computer. I can now appreciate how alien and overwhelming the experience is as a whole, as well as how a simpler user interface could help a new user to get started with less pain.

That said, the long-term effect of simplifying the interface (to the point where you can't access the file system, as Metro proposes to do) will be to keep PC users stuck at that novice level, viewing the computer as basically a "black box" that performs magic for them and every so often the high priests in Redmond send new incantations (dare I say, "charms") to make the box do new magical tricks.

I understand that some, perhaps even many, people don't care to explore their machines and prefer to keep their interactions with it at such a superficial level. That's fine. The solution, which doesn't seem to be winning out, is to offer users a CHOICE as to the kind of experience that they prefer. Let the novices stay in their blissful ignorance, but allow those of us who hunger for knowledge and understanding to continue being able to get into the inner workings of the OS and programs. Besides the fact that getting work done via the Metro Start Screen is more cumbersome, my concern is that the desktop has now been relegated to second-class status ("the desktop is just another app") and may be ultimately eliminated altogether, except at some exorbitant price for developers and other computing professionals.

[EDIT: Apropos of this, check out this recent statement by security expert Bruce Schneier:

He called the new model "feudal security" in which Kindle Fire owners trust their security to Amazon, iPhone users trust their Apple, and so on. As a result, the devices no longer come with general-purpose capabilities. Open environments are increasingly being replaced with closed systems that are designed to give users less control.

"Closed systems designed to give users less control." With Metro, Windows is taking a big step in that same direction.

end EDIT]

While I thought they'd be open for criticism, the main trend I see is that everybody who doesn't outright adore Metro is considered to be an outcast, someone who "doesn't get it", the Windows version of a leper. Microsoft might be getting cosy with the prospective tablet owners, but someone is going to have to code these apps for said tablets. And those who code for a living aren't doing it on tablets as far as I know. Your hands would be reduced to bloody stumps in a moment's notice due to the verbosity of XAML alone. Good luck getting an app ecosystem started if you treat your developers like dirt.

The last thing they should be doing is flipping off the guys and girls who do their programming. At the moment they're making their life that much harder by being obsessed with some sort of Cupertinian fetishism. It sure as hell isn't going to make programmers flock to the platform. I've been looking around for other options.

All in all, I feel the people who want to use their computer to get something done are getting the Milton Waddams (Office Space)

by Microsoft.

Well said. Reading through the comments sections on the MS blogs, you can see a definite "groupie" element -- people who will fall for anything that's new, just because it's new. They label as "haters" those of us who don't care for it, but too few offer actual arguments for preferring the Metro interface. And note how the desktop is being derided as "dated" and "stale." Umm -- how, exactly, is a way of presenting material "stale"? It just IS.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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what were they thinking? Were they thinking at all?

No need to worry. Nobody's going to upgrade to Visual Studio 11 anytime soon as C++ apps don't run on WinXP anymore, and most likely .NET 4.5 apps won't run on XP either (the beta doesn't run on on anything older than Win7 for that matter). Yes, we're just going to start writing apps that don't work on half the computers that run Windows :rolleyes:

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JorgeA, glad you like 'em! I'll do my best to keep them interesting. Usually, I'm not that snarky, but Windows 8 becomes more jaw dropping insane every day.

On the topic of simplicity and computers, I still have to point my mom and dad to features for which I use short-cuts. I tried teaching them Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V, to no avail. For my dad making a webpage equals using that abomination called Frontpage (he might as well just use notepad, equal frustration but cleaner code). How am I going to tell him when he comes home with a Windows 8 PC that there is no more Start Menu, that everything he thought he knew about computers is now gone? Even if some might be capable to re-learn all that, who says that they will want to? It wouldn't surprise me that for many the Start Menu was one of those critical steps in finding things, and knowing 'where to start' a sequence of actions. All gone, and the replacement isn't an improvement if you disregard the tablet-ification features.

CoffeeFiend, what a great PR stunt to declare that they "fixed" the broken VS11-theme and meanwhile also succeeded in stopping to support Windows XP. You can't make that stuff up. Sigh

Btw, do you know what 12648430 stands for in Hexadecimal? ;)

0xC0FFEE

I just don't get it, my mind is unwilling to accept that this is the reality we're facing. My brain tries to trick me into believing they're just fooling us and that they'll show the real Windows 8 later on. Then we'll all laugh about how gullibe we were!

They sure got me! :blink:

Yeah, then reality kicks in. I can't comprehend why they are doing this, Windows 7 was fine, why not allow for both desktop and tablet systems, a dual approach? Why force Metro on those who do not want it? Could this be just a marketing ploy? Or will the 'Professional' version allow for a 'Desktop upgrade' for a small fee, as Microsoft knows big business, and wouldn't be so dumb to lock itself out of their biggest sponsor, right? Is this just a long-winded joke to get the attention of the tech-crowd? Given that the Consumer Preview addresses a few of the mouse and desktop issues, but by no means offers a workable experience for someone to use it on a professional basis, I'm starting to believe this is what the final version will be like.

At the moment, where Windows 7 felt like just doing my work, Windows 8 feels like doing my work and getting a kick in the balls from time to time. When I complain about not wanting to get kicked in the balls, I get told that I'll get used to it, and that after the first kick in the balls, I'll barely notice it from that point onwards. If I keep complaining I get told that I can always install a third-party protector cup so that I won't feel getting kicked in the balls that much anymore.

And I'm supposed to accept that over "You don't want a kick in the balls, well just say so!" ? Especially after the previous edition seemed to do just fine without kicking people in the balls.

Perhaps those who dislike it just are a vocal minority, or perhaps these issues will explode further down the road. Can't really say what the general public thinks of Windows 8, but I can't see myself getting anything serious done. For example: coding the simplest of dynamic webpages, which requires running 3 different browsers, a database tool and an editor. Something that would be nigh impossible or at least unworkable in Windows 8.

How fricking hard could it be to make them run alongside each other, I mean, it's not like it's a freaking phone, right? <_< Sorry if the following image is a bit poor in taste, but it succinctly illustrates my Metro experience thus far:

21bm03n.png

Edited by belgianguy
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CoffeFiend, what a great PR stunt to declare that they "fixed" the VS11-theme and meanwhile also succeeded in stopping to support Windows XP. You can't make that stuff up. Sigh

Yeah, I totally hear you. Even well-known softies like Scott Hanselman don't seem to care much for it. There's a few things I wanted from VS 11 myself:

-Some cool C# features, but they barely have anything worth mentioning really (it might as well be nothing)

-I wanted them to make it easier to use built-in OS stuff like TaskDialogs and such things (without the crappy API code pack) but instead of that they're pushing for Metro everything :puke:

-Significantly improved refactoring/code inspection/better intelllisense ala resharper, and things like a much improved mstest (I'll use nunit over it anyway) -- here they deliver NOTHING

-Great C++11 support, yet it's still lagging far behind GCC despite costing DIVIDE BY ZERO ERROR% more than GCC

...

They give you no actual improvements, but they give you a depressing theme that makes it hard to find stuff, a hefty price tag and as a bonus they drop support for half of your customer's PCs! Wow, where do I sign up?

I just don't get it, my mind is unwilling to accept that this is the reality we're facing. My brain tries to trick me into believing they're just fooling us and that they'll show the real Windows 8 later on. Then we'll all laugh about how gullibe we were!

They sure got me! :blink:

I'm *so* totally there. Right now my first reaction is "so long Windows". Ballmer and Sonofski managed to kill something that was truly great. Today, MS lost me as a power user, a developer, an enthusiast for 20 years (since MS-DOS 3.3), and a guy who fixes other people's PCs once in a while (fixed a vista laptop that was missing usbstor.inf again today). Goodbye Windows. Goodbye C# and Visual Studio. Goodbye SQL Server. It's now time to develop cross-platform non-Metro apps. Our next PCs will be Macs, and our next mp3 player/tablet/phones will be Apple or Android devices. By year 2020 we should be mostly Microsoft-free, running legacy stuff in VMWare Workstation or vSphere. There's always the possibility that Win9 won't be such an abomination but I've mostly lost hope.

21bm03n.png

:thumbup

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there are some simple answers here to complex conversation :P

Even if some might be capable to re-learn all that, who says that they will want to?

MS don't care for what someone wants, they are just like Red Alert 2 called them (lol), "MassiveSoft", they make massive production for masses who are forced to use their crap

I just don't get it, my mind is unwilling to accept that this is the reality we're facing.

...

Yeah, then reality kicks in. I can't comprehend why they are doing this

because they can

because they lead in desktop market, as in their OS runs on almost any hardware and like 90% games are made just for their platform

thus they set the rules

Why force Metro on those who do not want it?

so they can force "new" standard

(they actually call this innovating lol)

Windows 8 feels like doing my work and getting a kick in the balls from time to time.

When I complain about not wanting to get kicked in the balls, I get told that I'll get used to it

yep, thats the forced regime

Sorry if the following image is a bit poor in taste, but it succinctly illustrates my Metro experience thus far:

21bm03n.png

I'll actually use the last part with toilet on my web article :D (thanks)

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I've used the Consumer preview yesterday and it is a nightmare. Productivity is only 30% of Windows Vista/7, the font rendering and permanet switching between Metro and Desktop generates a splitting headache. I thought my head explodes :realmad: :realmad: :realmad: :realmad: :realmad:

I'm so happy to use Windows 7 now, this is soooooooo much eye friendlier.

The only thing you can do with Windows 8:

post-70718-0-73120000-1330607096_thumb.p

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Oh crazy... new wallpaper on that one!

I haven't heard much about using either of the Win8 on multimonitor. How does that turn out?

Also about WDP "expiring" you can easily get around that by changing the date in the BIOS and make sure it doesn't ever connect to the internet. :angel

Of course, I realise that a computer that doesn't connect to the internet feels like an alien concept.

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WDP got an update which gives it the same expire date like the Consumer preview (16th Jan 2013). Windows 8 allows you to have the taskbar on all monitors.

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Windows 8 allows you to have the taskbar on all monitors.

OOOO OK maybe I'll get off my rear and download this and try it out. It may not be pretty, I'm getting low on working monitors.

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post-70718-0-73120000-1330607096_thumb.p

This is great! :)

Edit: not sure why but you can't quote attached pictures and have them work I guess.

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Uggg multi-monitor leaves a lot to be desired. Metro doesn't use both and the taskbar it more like a clone. It had (yes had) default IE9 and "Explorer" icons on both screens. When I unpinned the "Explorer" from the second screen's taskbar, it disappeared from the first as well.

Metro is really flakey when you have it on one screen and you try to do things, like the hover on the right side to get the fly-out menu, since you have to stop your arrow.

But (I didn't notice this in older Windows versions, it might be there) I see that you can arrange displays vertically! That's neat.

I must say the WORST THING about this is that the pinball game it comes with DOES NOT HAVE MULTIBALL. I mean seriously, why bother. Its like a baseball game where you can't hit home runs. :rolleyes:

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I found a sad face in Windows 8! It looks like this

To get it, let the computer go into hibernate. Then unplug the hard drive. Then turn on the PC. After about a minute it will go to a blue screen with a sad face. Unfortunately, it reboots after less than a second so I couldn't get a picture of it.

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yes, this is the new BSOD picture.

Btw, Startmenu can be reactivated if you use ViStart:

ViStart.png

http://www.askvg.com/how-to-enable-good-old-start-button-orb-and-start-menu-in-windows-8/

Btw,this grey-scale anti-aliasing in Windows 8 sucks. This + Metro causes my unfathomable headache :(:no::wacko::realmad:

Edited by MagicAndre1981
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Startmenu can be reactivated if you use ViStart

The end result is similar but I wouldn't say "reactivated" per se. It might make Win8 bearable i.e. a Win7 lookalike with almost zero new features. I'd still rather run win7 (no need to buy it for starters)

Overall, the comments I see on the web so far (multiple sources) are overwhelmingly negative, mainly about Metro. Win9 can't come out soon enough.

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