JorgeA

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

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There was an interesting post here on WinUnleaked.info:

Windows 9 aka Windows Blue

Since the development of Windows 8 is over, the discussions about the next release are just about to start!

Win8China reports that we might see the first build very soon and that the codename Windows Blue means a new Base for Windows.

Like Whistler for XP and Longhorn for Windows Vista! But it's unsure if this Windows Blue will end up in a Windows 9 or surprisingly in a Windows 8.5.

Source:

http://www.win8china.com/html/1396.html

http://www.win8china.com/html/1399.html

http://msftkitchen.com/2012/08/windows-9-all-but-the-official-code-name-for-the-next-version-of-windows.html

While this is obviously just heresay (for now), it does corroborate what Microsoft has already announced about their intention to radically shorten their development cycle of the Windows OS; and some of the information in the provided links does imply a big 'update' to Windows 8. Whether this is something trivial, or something that actually reconciles the profound issues like those UI presents some Enterprise Customers -- or just cements the foreseeable future of the Windows OS in it's current dissonant state. Regardless it seems we might find out sooner, rather then later of the negative reaction to Windows 8 has had any effect on Microsoft's intentions for the OS...

In other news there's been no follow up to my post about the Metro Remover Jorge mentions here:

Has anybody tried this, or do you know anything about it?

For anyone that ends up using Windows 8 in a production environment (whether they want to or not), that can't have Metro in their way, I'd suggest using Tihiy's 7 Shell Wrapper as it actually allows for disabling the "Desktop Window Manager Session Manager" Service, and with it the OpenGL compositer totally shutting down Metro. The Start Menu component of Classic Shell is another excellent solution that is totally non-destructive but only bypasses Metro. The point here is the Windows System Internals for the new Metro/Modern part of the UI are not fully documented or understood at this time, and there are already know security and stability issues when tinkering with the interface; so hacking out 4Gb of bloated, insecure, redundant crap may not be the best solution at this time...

:blink:

Edited by hoak
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There was an interesting post here on WinUnleaked.info:

Windows 9 aka Windows Blue

Since the development of Windows 8 is over, the discussions about the next release are just about to start!

Win8China reports that we might see the first build very soon and that the codename Windows Blue means a new Base for Windows.

Like Whistler for XP and Longhorn for Windows Vista! But it's unsure if this Windows Blue will end up in a Windows 9 or surprisingly in a Windows 8.5.

Source:

http://www.win8china.com/html/1396.html

http://www.win8china.com/html/1399.html

http://msftkitchen.com/2012/08/windows-9-all-but-the-official-code-name-for-the-next-version-of-windows.html

While this is obviously just heresay (for now), it does corroborate what Microsoft has already announced about their intention to radically shorten their development cycle of the Windows OS; and some of the information in the provided links does imply a big 'update' to Windows 8. Whether this is something trivial, or something that actually reconciles the profound issues like those UI presents some Enterprise Customers -- or just cements the foreseeable future of the Windows OS in it's current dissonant state. Regardless it seems we might find out sooner, rather then later of the negative reaction to Windows 8 has had any effect on Microsoft's intentions for the OS...

What I think is twofold ...

  • Start backing up updates and everything for XP/Vista/7 from the servers.
  • Sell MSFT.

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For anyone that ends up using Windows 8 in a production environment (whether they want to or not), that can't have Metro in their way, I'd suggest using Tihiy's 7 Shell Wrapper as it actually allows for disabling the "Desktop Window Manager Session Manager" Service, and with it the OpenGL compositer totally shutting down Metro. The Start Menu component of Classic Shell is another excellent solution that is totally non-destructive but only bypasses Metro. The point here is the Windows System Internals for the new Metro/Modern part of the UI are not fully documented or understood at this time, and there are already know security and stability issues when tinkering with the interface; so hacking out 4Gb of bloated, insecure, redundant crap may not be the best solution at this time...

When you warn of the risk of creating security/stability issues, is it stuff like that Metro Remover that you have in mind?

Good questions you posted over in BetaArchive, BTW. Too bad nobody's seen fit to answer you.

--JorgeA

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What I think is twofold ...

  • Start backing up updates and everything for XP/Vista/7 from the servers.

Wow, do you think they'd go so far as to delete updates and utilities for their previous OS's, in the campaign to herd everybody into their brave new world of "personalized computing"?

--JorgeA

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Windows 8 skyrocketed to 0.23% in OS market share last month, from 0.20% in July.

At a similar stage in its development, Windows 7 already commanded a 1.18% share, despite the physical and psychological hurdles involved in obtaining an OS that didn't come installed with users' PCs.

We can argue over the meaning of these figures, but one thing seems clear: there's been no stampede toward Win8 during its free phase, despite claims for its being the best thing since sliced bread.

--JorgeA

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On completely UNrelated news :ph34r: the good Apple guys have seemingly decided to completely ban UDID's:

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/strategy/item/29091-apple-to-ban-udids-followin/

though the way they worded it:

http://allthingsd.com/20120905/apple-we-didnt-give-fbi-any-device-ids/

Additionally, with iOS 6 we introduced a new set of APIs meant to replace the use of the UDID and will soon be banning the use of UDID

sounds to me more like "since customers got upset about the current version, we will use instead a new method of tracking that we will be forced to remove not before a couple of years" :whistle:

The good BlueToad guys do seem actually sorry:

http://blog.bluetoad.com/2012/09/10/statement-from-bluetoad-regarding-the-cyber-attack-suffered-in-the-recent-case-of-stolen-apple-udids/

but still (and IMHO), if something doesn't "phone home" it is LESS likely that the info that is NOT SENT can be stolen.

More on the same OT :w00t: :

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443779404577643942343250220.html

http://blogs.computerworld.com/data-security/20971/antisec-bluetoad-fesses-clears-fbi-blame-itbwcw

jaclaz

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In a recent blog post, Ed Bott examines, generally sympathetically, Microsoft's pledge of "no compromises" when it comes to Windows RT. But there is the following passage:

I wouldn’t want to use a tablet— iPad or Android, Windows 8 or Windows RT—as my only computing device. That pesky onscreen keyboard covers up a shocking amount of workspace, and it is rarely as accurate or as easy to use as a physical keyboard, with its tactile feedback and ergonomic design. And designing options for use with touch means simplifying them dramatically, often to the point of losing access to the full range of things you want to do. Compromises.

--JorgeA

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jaclaz,

Thanks for the links, very interesting.

The crux of the matter:

but still (and IMHO), if something doesn't "phone home" it is LESS likely that the info that is NOT SENT can be stolen.

You hit the nail on the head! If the information isn't gathered, it can't be used against you.

--JorgeA

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For anyone that ends up using Windows 8 in a production environment (whether they want to or not), that can't have Metro in their way, I'd suggest using Tihiy's 7 Shell Wrapper as it actually allows for disabling the "Desktop Window Manager Session Manager" Service, and with it the OpenGL compositer totally shutting down Metro. The Start Menu component of Classic Shell is another excellent solution that is totally non-destructive but only bypasses Metro. The point here is the Windows System Internals for the new Metro/Modern part of the UI are not fully documented or understood at this time, and there are already know security and stability issues when tinkering with the interface; so hacking out 4Gb of bloated, insecure, redundant crap may not be the best solution at this time...

When you warn of the risk of creating security/stability issues, is it stuff like that Metro Remover that you have in mind?

Good questions you posted over in BetaArchive, BTW. Too bad nobody's seen fit to answer you.

--JorgeA

Yes, until we know exactly what Metro Remover does, and how it does it, as well as more about Windows 8 Metro/Modern UI internals -- there is risk involved, and it could be substantial as Metro is now 'the' recovery interface not a command line console. So there's likely a considerable payload of registry entries that could become orphaned (that are frequently deleted on that account) as well as hard links in the file system that may be broken.

I can endure and work around most of Windows 8's idiosyncrasies and shortcomings, but the added bloat Metro brings is virtually as much as having a second OS on-board, with the added attack surface, vulnerabilities, and system management with no real benefit like the ability to sandbox applications -- in fact it's the opposite where bugs, issues, and vulnerabilities in Metro/Modern interface can already cripple Windows 8.

:huh:

Edited by hoak
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Windows 8 skyrocketed to 0.23% in OS market share last month, from 0.20% in July.

At a similar stage in its development, Windows 7 already commanded a 1.18% share, despite the physical and psychological hurdles involved in obtaining an OS that didn't come installed with users' PCs.

We can argue over the meaning of these figures, but one thing seems clear: there's been no stampede toward Win8 during its free phase, despite claims for its being the best thing since sliced bread.

--JorgeA

LOL, nice find Jorge! In fact I'd wager that 0.23% is within the margin of error of measurement of something as complex as OS adoption and market-share, so it could well be flat or even in decline...

My own anecdotal observations are that serious desktop/workstation Users while curious about Windows 8, and probably the most capable of actually getting alone with it; are the least likely to see any value or appeal, are indifferent or would rather use a more mature and robust OS. Tech Fashion Weenies, that are typically attracted to flashy passive consumption media toys who gush over every novel thing have some of the worst reactions after actually putting up with Windows 8 for any length of time.

It's going to be really interesting to see how this trends; if Microsoft's massive investment in 'focus group think' and market research is going to pay off or fall flat. My gut tells me that Microsoft is no different then a many other big companies where everyone wants to defer to 'committee decisions' as no one is ultimately wants to be accountable. This is a problem only getting worse in a lot of big U.S. companies as the economy worsens, and people fear for their jobs.

That there appears to be some egregious structural and functional design gaffs in Windows 8 and Server 2012 only makes the whole story more interesting as it unfolds...

:blink:

Edited by hoak
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Another Headline from an Alternate Universe ...

Intel: 80 percent of PC users prefer touch screens ( NeoWin 2012-09-11 )

One might assume that the person was either talking only about phones and tablets or that he was smoking dope. The only clue given ...

"Intel said today that, according to their own tests, 80 percent of PC users prefer touchscreens over other controls when doing everyday tasks such as surfing the Internet. Intel conducts interviews of 220,000 people a year."

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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Information is the UI in Windows 8, says design guru. How to make sense of the desktop formerly-known-as-Metro ( UK Register 2012-09-12 )

"“A consistent UI and place for people to look for search, share and settings means users don't have to need to learn a new UI for each app,” Morris explained..."

So Microsoft had so much free time on their hands they felt it necessary not just to changes the appearance of their software, but want to alter the visual presentation of everyone's software. Once again we see the thought process: "don't have to need to learn a new UI for each app", as if we were screaming for them to save us from those mean and terrible 3rd party developers confusing us with their custom and signature interfaces. And people call Apple arrogant. How about this, stop fixing stuff that ain't broken, and start fixing the countless bugs in Windows.

Good comments over there.

"The flaw is in the very words "information people need to consume"

"information people need to consume". Computers are not devices to "consume" information only. Computer are devices to "produce" information. A book - a device to consume information - has a very different UI compared to the tools needed to produce that information. Unluckily the browser and the web made too many think the main task is "consume", forgetting for many is "produce". The whole "consumer" idea is bringing IT back - after all they want to morph the power PC into a TV set (the "information consumer" device by definition), just smart enough to take away more money from the "consumer" pockets. Those bad people who want to create information outside the big companies control must be kept away, and new users have to understand they are designed to be consumers, not producers."

Funny too ...

"Just wondering .....

"The author travelled to TechEd, ate and slept, as a guest of Microsoft."

When he woke up, were there two small puncture wounds on his neck?"

:lol:

I like it when developers are creative. That's our right. Stay out of our business. I'll bet Microsoft must just hate these guys ...

orJB8MS.jpg

7CqCC0K.gif3IswjRb.jpg

fPXdHBq.jpgC3RF1tn.jpg

YvnKCng.jpg

7z8yuRv.jpg

( originals: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 )

EDIT: updated image URLs, and again

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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The only clue given ...

"Intel said today that, according to their own tests, 80 percent of PC users prefer touchscreens over other controls when doing everyday tasks such as surfing the Internet. Intel conducts interviews of 220,000 people a year."

This confirms my theory, if the idea of everyday task (which in my perverted mind is - or should be - mainly to §@ç#ing WORK ) is "surfing the Internet" :w00t: , the humanity is doomed :(.

Dictionary, meaning #1 or #3:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/task

task

n.

1. A piece of work assigned or done as part of one's duties.

2. A difficult or tedious undertaking.

3. A function to be performed; an objective.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/work

work

n.

1. Physical or mental effort or activity directed toward the production or accomplishment of something.

can anyone spot the difference with:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/leisure

lei·sure

n.

Freedom from time-consuming duties, responsibilities, or activities.

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
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"“A consistent UI and place for people to look for search, share and settings means users don't have to need to learn a new UI for each app,” Morris explained..."

Umm... isn't that what they told us when they phased out DOS in favor of Windows -- that it would present a "consistent" interface from one program to the next?

And, how long before "app" developers break through the intended sameness of look in the-interface-formerly-known-as-Metro? (Thereby zapping this particular rationale for it.)

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" -- Jorge Santayana. (Yes, he did have my same first name!)

--JorgeA

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The only clue given ...

"Intel said today that, according to their own tests, 80 percent of PC users prefer touchscreens over other controls when doing everyday tasks such as surfing the Internet. Intel conducts interviews of 220,000 people a year."

Sample bias: I suggest that people who use their PCs to create things and do actual work, are too busy to participate in a stupid survey.

--JorgeA

P.S. and totally OT: Cool that here we just managed to nest a quote within a quote within a quote...

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