JorgeA

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

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"Alright, so Windows 8 isnt even out yet it shouldnt matter how many people are using it, right? Well, thats true to an extent, but a whopping 1.64% of Windows users felt like installing a pre-release version of Windows 7 a month before it was released. Compared to that, only about 0.33% of users are running Windows 8; five times less. To put that in perspective, Windows 7 already had as many users as Windows 8 six months before release."

As noted before, obviously there is no public clamor for this FrankenOS.

I went in to see how the Neowin fanboys would try to spin that one. Curiously, there didn't seem to be any attempt in the article itself, while the comments are decidedly mixed.

Windows 8: a solution to a problem that no user felt.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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I have to quote my post from above for this update to make sense.

Since Charlie Chaplin, Gecko lizards and common fruit were already spoken for ...

Windows 8 digital graffiti artists wanted by Microsoft ( NeoWin 2012-09-28 )

Nothing sadder than Redmond bureaucrats paying a firm to portray them as Seattle hipsters. Or in this case gang bangers marking up the walls of buildings. To be sure, this may be a step or two below gang colors. I just can't see crips and bloods spray painting sesame street or playskool colored blocks!

JPEG 1.9 MB ... Graffiti_bg.jpg

Rapper causes an uproar at a Microsoft Store ( NeoWin 2012-10-02 )

The Houston-born rapper was promoting his debut album, Lace up when he struck nerves in the Microsoft store when his performance escalated and resulted in him jumping onto tables which were filled with laptops and desktops, throwing Microsoft’s promotional signs, and of course giving the middle finger to Microsoft employees.

More at link, including video.

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As noted before, obviously there is no public clamor for this FrankenOS.

I went in to see how the Neowin fanboys would try to spin that one. Curiously, there didn't seem to be any attempt in the article itself, while the comments are decidedly mixed.

Windows 8: a solution to a problem that no user felt.

--JorgeA

How does one even make sense of the following two articles ...

Windows 8 previews tested on over 16 million PCs ( NeoWin 2012-08-01 )

Windows 8 was the widest and most deeply tested OS in Microsoft's history according to Steven Sinofsky [Official Destroying Windows Blog], which he believes means that the world is ready for Windows 8 and its new workflow. Seeing as Windows 8 was tested so widely when compared to previous iterations of Windows, it should signify that Windows 8 will be another rock solid OS out of Redmond.

Windows 8 has five times less pre-release users than Windows 7 ( NeoWin 2012-10-02 )

"Alright, so Windows 8 isn’t even out yet – it shouldn’t matter how many people are using it, right? Well, that’s true to an extent, but a whopping 1.64% of Windows users felt like installing a pre-release version of Windows 7 a month before it was released. Compared to that, only about 0.33% of users are running Windows 8; five times less. To put that in perspective, Windows 7 already had as many users as Windows 8 six months before release."
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Here are some impressions of the recovery experience...

- Accessing the F8 menu is difficult, if not impossible, on UEFI 2.3.1 hardware. By design, Windows disables USB input devices (such as keyboards) during boot for one...

- Getting to the Recovery option is tricky and requires digging through menus.

- The Refresh option is a welcome return (akin to repair install in XP) but has a habit of removing drivers, including the Realtek Audio Controller driver THAT COMES WITH WINDOWS 8! :blink: Fortunately there is an HTML file on the desktop that tells you what was removed.

- The "Replace" type option that formats the drive and reinstalls Windows TAKE AT LEAST 2 HOURS! :no: I suspect that unlike Windows 7 full recovery, Windows 8 doesn't do a quick format prior to reinstalling the recovery image.

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If I may, things should be put into historical context.

When 2K - actually (IMHO) a very good OS - much better than XP for "serious" uses, came out, there was an initial set of issues/problems, which were actually solved with SP1 or SP2, which came out rather quickly.

ALL (or nearly all) new users of win2K were actually long time users of NT 4.00 (many coming from NT 3.51) and came from an exceptionally stable OS.

When XP came out, most of those that had 2K, in the meantime become "mature", kept using it. :thumbup and only upgraded to XP when actually "forced" by either the lack of support (drivers) for new hardware or by Commercial strategies.

In practice NO Windows 98 user ever used 2K, they went "directly" to XP, often passing through Me.

So, the mass of the new XP users came from Me :w00t: , no surprise they found the XP such a great OS.

The mass of new 7 users came from Vista :ph34r:, again not that much surprise that 7 was such a success.

Now the situation - as I see it - is not unlike the "shift" from 98SE to Me.

BTW, Me was a much better OS than Windows 98 SE (as it had a number of things "migrated" from NT/2K) it was simply "killed as a child" by the MS Commercial policies of pushing XP outside it's intended scope (still XP is far less suitable to single user/"not corporate networked" PC's than 98/Me).

And if you remember most of the whining about Me was about the (forced) removal of "pure DOS" (which was a heresy for the 9X users and is actually still a heresy from a technical standpoint).

In practice MS had TWO good OS's at the time:

  1. Windows 98 Se
  2. Windows NT

the first perfectly suited for home use and the second for "serious"/business use.

Windows NT "naturally evolved" into Win 2K.

Windows Me was a (failed, but as said IMHO only because it was abandoned too early) attempt to re-use some of the good technologies developed for Windows 2000 on the still better "home/game" suited Windows 98Se.

Not that much of a proof, but remember that (roughly) a Windows 2000 machine needed to work smoothly DOUBLE the RAM of a correspondent Windows 98/Me machine.

Casually :whistle: I have a laptop that was "announced" as having Windows 98 SE, but it was actually delivered with Windows Me (with 64 Mb of Ram).

Though the Me worked allright, I had reasons to install 2K and consequently added a 64 Mb stick to the thingy.

Then the geniuses at MS had a better thought, since hardware was getting cheaper, instead of adding security/stability coming from the NT "branch" to the "DOS branch", they decided to add playful looks to 2K and force it to BOTH the 9x/Me users and to the 2K users.

For the new users, XP was nice, for the old time NT/2K users it was an abomination of unneeded eye-candy wich brought no advantages, for the old time 9x/Me users it was an abomination of complexity and of things they liked (games, mainly) not working anymore.....

But it was a success (for MS, mainly because they re-merged together - at the customer expense - two developing branches) and still, though being (as I see it ) a bettered Win2K, only worse ;), XP has been a good OS, a lot of people have become used to it, and this is why Vista :ph34r: was a shock to them.

Now that things have setled down and people is more or less happy about Windows 7 and relative apps (someone has even the courage to say that the "ribbon" is not that bad after all), here comes MS and with the same arrogance and prevarication they had with the Me (unneededly removing the DOS) they are now unneededly removing the "classic" interface replacing it with the NCI .

But obviusly the only thing they are doing (AGAIN) is re-merging two development branches (the desktop and the tablet/phone one) into a single one, (AGAIN) at the expense of the customers.

jaclaz

Edit: corrected a few typos

Edited by jaclaz
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The Houston-born rapper was promoting his debut album, Lace up when he struck nerves in the Microsoft store when his performance escalated and resulted in him jumping onto tables which were filled with laptops and desktops, throwing Microsoft’s promotional signs, and of course giving the middle finger to Microsoft employees.

A dose of their own medicine! After all, MS has kicked the Start Button off the Desktop, trampled on the Start Menu, and given the middle finger to those who object.

--JorgeA

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How does one even make sense of the following two articles ...

Three pre-RTM versions of Windows 8 were released -- the DP, the CP, and the RP. Thus, people interested in checking out the OS could have installed "Windows 8" three different times, bulking up the download numbers. How many totally public pre-RTM versions of Windows 7 were there?

The explanation might be that while Win8 betas may have been downloaded more times than Win7 betas, a higher proportion of Win7 than Win8 previewers ended up using the OS regularly, and so that usage shows up in the market share stats. Therefore the whole bit about Win8 being "the most thoroughly tested OS" strikes me as suspect. A lot of people tried it, saw that it s*cks big time, and (unlike Win7) stopped using it.

--JorgeA

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about Win8 being "the most thoroughly tested OS" strikes me as suspect. A lot of people tried it, saw that it s*cks big time, and (unlike Win7) stopped using it.

Also there is BIG difference between "been thoroughly tested", "been thoroughly tested with success" and "been thoroughly tested with success and user satisfaction"..... :whistle:

jaclaz

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If I may, things should be put into historical context.

That was an illuminating analysis, jaclaz -- thank you. And it makes sense.

I never used Win2K or ME. I jumped from Win98 (and FE, at that!!!) all the way to Vista, so my experience with XP is limited and recent. I imagine that the change for me was probably even bigger than for those who went to XP from either ME or 2000.

--JorgeA

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Paul Allen (remember him?) weighs in on Windows 8 with a nuanced, not fanboyish approach. While expressing excitement over Microsoft's new OS, he also voices concerns over a number of aspects of the Win8 UI:

When the PC or tablet initially starts up, you will see the Start screen, which is a view suited nicely for use from a tablet. Strangely, there is no way to set the desktop as your default view (there should be).
(emphasis added -- he really did write that!)
Now that the Start menu is gone, existing Windows users undoubtedly will wonder where to find the power commands: Sleep, Shut down, and Restart.

To find the power commands, display the Charms bar and then select Settings, which includes a Power button.

I found myself wishing that a Power tile was available on the Start screen to make these commands more accessible.

Allen makes other observations which -- if they had been posted by you or me -- would get us tagged as "trolls" or "haters" by the fanboys. His entire post makes for informative reading.

(Article found via Neowin.)

--JorgeA

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I jumped from Win98 (and FE, at that!!!) all the way to Vista

you missed quite alot :P

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I jumped from Win98 (and FE, at that!!!) all the way to Vista

you missed quite alot :P

You're right. :blushing: Up until 2008 I wasn't into computers at all, except strictly as a business tool. I had just the faintest notion of what a USB port was: my Win98 box has two of them and I didn't even know it!! :o I got interested in tech again after 20 years, only when my PC went on the fritz and I had to start learning REAL FAST.

Actually, if it weren't for that old computer acting up on me (turned out it was dust inside...), there's a good chance that I'd still be tooling around the Information Superhighway in that golf cart.

--JorgeA

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Dvorak at PC Magazine ...

Why the "One Experience" Strategy Fails ( PC Magazine 2012-10-02 )

To make such an idea work, you must find common denominators and dumb down the product. The process does not work for specialized products that were developed with a specific vision. Changing the interface changes the vision and changes the way a product works. It may even change the appeal of the product.

Microsoft has done this over the years with good products that it buys and changes. FrontPage, an advanced Web development tool that was far ahead its time, is a prime example. Eventually, Microsoft began to muck with the program to bring it in line its other concepts. In a few short years, people stopped using the thing (as it became unusable) and then Microsoft shuttered the operation. This, to me, epitomizes the problem with a one experience strategy.

Most of the commenters agree, although a few fanboys had their predictable tantrums. Waaaaaah!

Microsoft better be worried ...

ComScore: Microsoft's US mobile phone market share has dropped ( NeoWin 2012-10-03 )

Microsoft lost some market share in the US smartphone industry, according to a new report from ComScore. ... the new data, taken between June and August 2012, shows that Microsoft's smartphone share is now at 3.6 percent, a decline of 0.4 percent compared to May 2012.

But wait, there's more ... Recall this from way upthread at Post #858 ...

Tokyo Court Rules For Samsung, Says It Didn't Violate Apple Patent

http://e.nikkei.com/e/fr/tnks/Nni20120831D3ZJF815.htm

I think that jury decision (the California case) is looking pretty shaky overall. It is a prime candidate for overturning because of both the Judge and the Jury. The Judge is seen as an Apple puppet, and now the Jury is coming under scrutiny.

Apple v. Samsung juror: we "wanted to send a message" ( Ars Technica 2012-08-26 )

It is interesting to read through the many comments there. I think the love affair with Apple is nearing its end (Microsoft, take note).

Well this dog still has some bite left in her ...

Samsung: Jury foreman in the Apple case lied! ( NeoWin 2012-10-03 )

Samsung Says Jury Foreman's History Marred Apple Verdict ( Tom's Hardware 2012-10-04 )

It appears that the jury foreman had some bad history with Seagate who are directly tied to Samsung, specifically he was fired and sued by them and did not disclose this direct conflict of interest. Whoa! I've seen this jury foreman interviewed and suspected he had an axe to grind. There is no way this one can be ignored. This game is going to extra innings folks. If Samsung has a clear shot at the USA phone market, and they should because lord knows we need competition, there will be strokes up in Redmond instead of celebrating ...

Microsoft employees react to Samsung vs. Apple verdict, 'Windows Phone is looking gooooood right now' ( The Verge 2012-08-24 )

Apple’s $1B patent victory vs. Samsung: A win for Microsoft? ( GeekWire 2012-08-24 )

The way I see it, measuring the success or fail of Windows 8 will come in several waves. The desktop market is the longest term, laptops a little shorter, but in the shortest timeframe are tablets and phones which will definitely be the proverbial canary in the coalmine. Any injunctions anywhere blocking Android phones are essentially clearing the playing field for iPhones and WPs ( the worst possible scenario in a world awash in horrible ideas ). Windows 8 phones need a gigantic opening with monster numbers or it is dead. And if it dies it will likely set the perception for the entire operating system. Hey Microsoft, still like putting all your eggs in one basket? That's exactly what you did here with Windows 8. Instead of placing a firewall between these new products and the existing ones, you removed all the barriers, tied them all together, ensuring a catastrophe for the company in the event that Sinofsky has miscalculated. Let's hope the board of directors is watching closely.

EDIT: added a link

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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I don't buy the "revenge against Seagate hence Samsung. :no:

I am more puzzled by the statement (page 24 of the èdf transcript here: http://www.groklaw.net/pdf4/ApplevSamsung-1991Ex1.pdf )

LET ME ASK, IF YOU HAVE STRONG FEELINGS

OR STRONG OPINIONS ABOUT EITHER THE UNITED STATES

PATENT SYSTEM OR INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY LAWS, WOULD

YOU RAISE YOUR HAND, PLEASE?

THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT THAT NO HANDS

HAVE BEEN RAISED.

and (page 22):

NOW, SAME FOR MR. TEPMAN, AS WELL AS TO

MR. HOGAN. YOU ALL HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE, BUT

WILL YOU BE ABLE TO DECIDE THIS CASE BASED SOLELY

ON THE EVIDENCE THAT'S ADMITTED DURING THE TRIAL?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: YES.

THE COURT: OKAY. MR. HOGAN SAYS YES.

WHAT ABOUT MR. TEPMAN?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I THINK SO, TOO.

THE COURT: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.

Source for pdf link here:

http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/10/03/jury-foreman-vel-hogan-on-samsung-vs-apple-case-failed-to-disclose-hed-been-sued-by-seagate-partially-owned-by-samsung/

When compared with:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/aug/28/apple-samsung-foreman-explains

In this country, intellectual property deserves to be protected.
Do you have a concern that this case and the verdict given could encourage further patent litigation?

Yes. I have no doubt that, number one, this case for this country is historical. It's a landmark case and, as people have said, we set the bar rather high. But as jurors we took the job seriously.

What needs to be understood by those outside that are watching this and listening to it, no matter whether we or anyone else feel personally that the patent procedure in this country or the patent system is broken or sick, we as jurors were sworn to abide by the rules and the stipulations in law as they exist today, at the time we made the decision.

And personally, do you think it is broken and sick and needs reform?

I believe we definitely need to continue the discussion. What I applaud is the fact that there is a discussion going on. Not everybody agrees with me or agrees with the decision that we made.

But that's OK. Whether I believe it is sick or broken or needs to be fixed or not, the rules are today what they are.

But if the community of engineers at large believes that it needs to be changed or re-reviewed, this court, this trial, and this set of jurors - myself included - was not the genre for that. It was not the right place.

That wasn't our authority and it wasn't what we were supposed to do.

And:

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_21400423/jury-foreman-apple-v-samsung-verdict-message-that

"I was thinking about the patents, and thought, 'If this were my patent, could I defend it?' " Hogan recalled. "Once I answered that question as yes, it changed how I looked at things."

I have somehow the feeling that there was some bias :w00t: but not connected with the old Seagate issue, but rather with not being able to keep outside the decision his own "strong opinions" on the Law, how it should have been changed and how it should have been applied and with personal specific experience, and some sort of "personal revenge" against the "experts" the two parties brought to the trial.

jaclaz

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