JorgeA

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

6,162 posts in this topic

Skeuomorphic design: Apple vs. good UX? ( NeoWin 2012-10-10 )

It occurred to me while reading this, that all this talk the past year about Skeuomorphism, a Sinofskyesque talking point, is really happening just as a feeble attempt to rationalize the doomed bonehead ideas from Team B&S. A year from now when the reality of fail sets in, these morons will point back to discussion about post-Skeuomorphism as an excuse for their damaging the Windows brand, discussion they actually initiated and astroturfed. Clever boys. It won't help. The internet remembers.

Yup, yup, yup. I read the article you linked to, have read others like it, and I still have to see what the "problem" is that they're talking about. The fashionable 2D look is actually quite boring, and screen elements are harder to tell apart.

It's as if the Flatlanders were trying to pull us into their limited little world. We look at computer screens all day long -- what's wrong with making them more visually interesting?

--JorgeA

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If Windws RT wins out and x86 Windows disappears,

x86 is going to disappear not because of popularity. Even now, I am doing absolutely nothing with x86, only amd64. The reason for this is that while MS came to manufacturers with the new "requirements" for Windows 8, they didn't implement all of them. The important one is the UEFI 2.3.1 firmware for SecureBoot. The problem is that x86 version of Windows (any Windows) isn't supported on UEFI firmware. So x86 will have a small footprint because most manufacturers primarily only have EFI hardware available. Now, we'll see some x86 Windows 8 show up from OEMs on tablets and such... but only because of the WindowsRT lockout for a year. OEMs won't want to be left out and only those 5 ARM Partners being able to put out mobile devices. But those x86 products won't support SecureBoot either.

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Q: You've talked about this year being the most epic. Is there another year in Microsoft's history you could compare this to? Maybe the launch of Windows 95?

A: You know, Windows 95 was certainly the biggest thing in the last 20 years until now. I think Windows 8 certainly surpasses it. It's a little hard to compare things like the founding (of the company) and the introduction of the first popular PC and the system that popularized it, but it's at that scale.

That is simply offensive. Being a business weasel and not a tech guy, he doesn't even realize the giant crap he is taking on those devs that made that Herculean leap from Windows 3.x ( aka WinDOS ) to Win9x. That was a sea-change. It was an actual improvement in every way. It is not the same as producing Windows 8 ( 6.2 ) by tweaking and dumbing down "Windows 7" ( 6.1 ), which itself is a fine-tuned Vista ( 6.0 ), which was a tweaked mashup of WinXP ( 5.1 ) plus graphics rewrite and added bloat, which was a tweaked Win2k ( 5.0 ) plus bells and whistles, which was a fine-tuned evolution of a decade of NT and OS/2 research plus some Win9x user friendly features. That is a greatly simplified description, the point being that Win3.x carried little over to Win9x, they didn't just pile on code and hit 'compile' like they have been doing all through the Win9x branch and ever since Win2k on the NT branch. What those OS devs did in Win95 was marvelous, and the thing worked with only 8 MB of RAM and ran any program you could throw at it. Nothing like that is being achieved by these generation Xbox babies. So Ballmer is once again insulting the past successes they have achieved, like they often do with WinXP, and it is a clear indication of his unfitness to be involved with Windows.

x86 is going to disappear not because of popularity...

I can't speak for him but for the past 30 years we have used " x86 " purely in a generic sense, as encompassing the entire 8086 architecture. As long as Intel keeps the chip register and instruction compatible, with new bit widths being supersets of the previous, the x86 world remains ( and AMD64 got it pretty much right unlike other riscy forks :lol: ). Microsoft has been the one making forays into dropping off previous generations ( 16 bit, 32-bit ) at both the compiler and at the OS system file level and will continue doing so until people wake up and remember that backward compatibility is key. There is no excuse for an operating system incompatible with 16/32 bit x86 on a chip that is compatible. If they are incapable of doing their job or simply are using planned obsolescence ( can't say which is worse really ) then someone else needs to take over and write core OS's for " x86 " CPUs. Either that or split them up and send the OS div away from Redmond. Of course there is nothing stopping Intel from simply writing their own operating system, they have some useful compilers actually, and you never know what might happen as Microsoft morphs into MicroApple and starts courting ARM and other non-x86 architectures more than they have done in the past.

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Groundhog day again with dozens more fanboy fluff pieces heralding Windows 8. I thought these were interesting.

Windows 8 tablets are “priced way too high” ( NeoWin 2012-10-11 )

Ummm, yeah, no kidding! Favorite comment over there so far: "Guess failure is an option.....". :lol: Seriously, the only thing that Windows 8 is going to do is ratchet up the prices of everything. Thanks Microsoft. I am so glad you removed DVD decodeers from the operating system to save us money. The interesting thing about this article is that everyone is infatuated with Apple and their iPad, using this as the sole measure of comparison. None of them are aware that current deals on i7 laptops with large HDD and 17" screens are LESS expensive, and will remain so unless Microsoft manages to get them to install Windows 8 and add a touchscreen and other little gadgets, making them extinct and restocking the shelves with higher priced, LESS functional toys. It is practically a repeat of the HDD Thailand flood disaster ( or manufacturer collusion, you decide ), wiping out all existing stocks, and replacing them with a "new normal" price plateau. I'm gonna have to start recommending people to budget for new systems in the next few months because there is a chance that the long-time computer decreasing price / increasing performance trend will be coming to an abrupt halt. Thanks again Microsoft.! :realmad:

Samsung Galaxy Nexus sales ban reversed in the United States ( NeoWin 2012-10-11 )

Jeez, those executives that were crowing about that recent decision will have to start worrying again. This is the same case with the same judge ( with the suspicious jury foreman ), but this Tablet injunction was put in place before the trial even occurred. That injunction has now been reversed. The case itself is still under appeal and will probably also be overturned or heavily modified. This is good because MicroApple has been trying to clear the playing field of competition all over the world, trying to leave the sheeple with a choice between Apple and Microsoft devices. How cozy. Now those overpriced Windows 8 tablets and surfaces will have to really work for their market share. :thumbup

Microsoft may kill Windows Service Packs ( NeoWin 2012-10-11 )

This article appears to only be speculation, I can find no Microsoft sources so far. It is interesting because we have had a few similar threads here. At this one over at NeoWin, there are lots of fanboys saying 'good' and rooting for the death of service packs! Fanboy Intellectual Underachiever Award of the Day goes to: "I say good. Waiting years for a cumulative pack of fixes is a waste of bandwidth every time you install Windows." :no: Say what?

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My deep impression Windows 8 is not without merits but it was built primarily for tablets with tablets in mind. Weird indeed they took so much additional effort to close many features that did fit desktop well.

Why not leaving the start menu and fully functional aero, maybe off by default but with an option to turn them on? I wouldn't stop using metro anyway, there are cool things for desktop users too so why fear it won't be used? As if they wanted windows 8 to be less popular among desktop users, or as if they did so to later reintroduce those features in Windows 9 in a couple of years so users truly appreciate it.

On the other hand, why giving so much attention to Metro? I'm sure that touch screens will never be as widespread as desktops, because there is no way touch screen interface can be faster or more convenient than a good mouse and a keyboard.

Bit by bit they should upgrade aero dwm fixing bugs and adding more customizations such as separate colors for borders/task bar/start menu. Microsoft dwm should be getting improvements with each new windows version, but unfortunately it was actually downgraded in Windows 8.

Edited by Servelius
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x86 is going to disappear not because of popularity...

I can't speak for him but for the past 30 years we have used " x86 " purely in a generic sense, as encompassing the entire 8086 architecture.

Yes, that's how I was using it -- to make a distinction between what we have known 'til now, and the brave new Windows RT/WOA world. MS has told us that a Desktop in that environment would only run (some of) their own programs, leaving us with nothing to work from but the Start Screen. That's what I'm comparing to the pre-95 Program Manager that PC users so happily abandoned 17 years ago.

--JorgeA

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The prospect of Windows 8 phones isn't exactly making the earth shake:

To get an early gauge on the upcoming demand for the new mobile OS we asked consumers how likely they would be to buy a Windows 8 smart phone. Nearly one-in-ten (9%) said they are likely to buy it in the future (2% Very Likely; 7% Somewhat Likely).

Two percent!! The comical part is the spin put on it:

“Considering marketing has yet to begin, these findings show Windows Phone 8 will likely have a substantial impact on the smart phone industry,”

:lol::lol:

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The prospect of Windows 8 phones isn't exactly making the earth shake:

It's stunning isn't it? It is as if suicide was a contagious disease spreading from Redmond in all directions. Or maybe it is premeditated murder, with Windows 8 being a poison pill distributed among their Heaven's Gate cult of true-believers.

Nokia reveals Euro pricing for Lumia 920 / 820 and accessories ( NeoWin 2012-10-12 )

Admittedly these are European prices ( France and UK ) which have embedded VAT, but it does not look like there is a sensible person anywwhere that is connected with Windows 8 pricing ( Phones, Tablets, AIO, Laptops, everything ).

As French Windows Phone site Professeur Thibault reported today, Nokia has confirmed that the Lumia 920 will be priced at €649 EUR ($840 USD / £525 GBP), while the Lumia 820 will be available for €499 EUR ($645 USD / £405 GBP).

Meanwhile, British retailer Clove this week revealed via its blog Nokia's official UK pricing of various accessories for the two new handsets. While £19.99 ($32 / €25) sounds like a reasonable price for the wireless charging shell for the Lumia 820 (which doesn't include integrated wireless charging as the Lumia 920 does), the cost of some of the other accessories might make your eyes water.

The basic wireless charging plate (below left) for both handsets will cost £54.99 ($88 / €68), while a wireless charging stand (below right) will make your wallet lighter to the tune of £69.99 ($112 / €87).

If you want one of the Fatboy wireless charging 'pillows' (below left), you'll need to hand over £79.99 ($128 / €99), while the JBL PlayUp portable wireless speaker (below right) will cost a pretty substantial £144.99 ($233 / €179).

Meanwhile, if you want to grab a larger, meatier JBL PowerUp wireless speaker (below; you might remember this from a demo that took a few attempts to work at Nokia's Lumia WP8 launch event...), Nokia France has priced it at a startling €389 ($505 / £315), or almost 80% of the cost of a Lumia 820.

:blink::wacko: Holy crap! These guys must really listen to the Ballmer hype and take it seriously. How does Nokia even survive another disaster? ~sigh~ I don't know. Maybe next year it will be called MicroNokia

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Meanwhile ...

Windows 8 pricing revealed through Newegg ( NeoWin 2012-10-12 )

  • Windows 8 (Full Version) - $99.99
  • Windows 8 Professional (Full Version) - $139.99
  • Windows 8 Pro Pack (product key only) - $69.99
  • Windows 8 Professional Upgrade - $69.99

Boy did they screw up again. Not in that price listing there, but in the details found at the article. What a mess of SKU decision making. What is hilarious is that even the NeoWin fanboys at the link are thoroughly confused, people who are faithfully using the Windows 8 RP and are bonafide Metro lovers are scratching their heads over how to purchase the thing. :lol: Note that these are still the promotional prices that "expire" sometime early next year. Thank God Microsoft removed the DVD decoders from Windows to keep the price low. :whistle:

How much is Microsoft betting on Windows 8? Nearly $2 billion, Forbes says ( NeoWin 2012-10-12 )

The sky's the limit I guess. Can't wait for the marketing blitz. Will they show people using a mouse and keyboard on their desktop PC's or will they allow them to run to the store with the mistaken perception that Windows 8 will magically convert their screen to touch ( you know this is gonna happen! ). Maybe this is the reason for the updated EULA that tries to prevent any class action lawsuits? Hmmm. :yes:

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Dell will keep selling Windows 7 PCs after Windows 8 launch ( NeoWin 2012-10-13 )

And the Fanboys are not amused. :lol:

Acer really doesn't like the Surface, continues to talk trash ( NeoWin 2012-10-13 )

And the Fanboys are extremely unhappy. :lol:

PC Industry Concerned Over Lukewarm Windows 8 Interest ( Tom's Hardware 2012-10-13 )

Very few Fanboys here fortunately. Mostly adults.

Special mention to this Dvorak column ...

Make Way for Windows 8 ( PC Magazine 2012-10-10 )

IMHO he correctly points to the pedigree of "Live Tiles" back to Active Desktop ( although I would mention specifically the 'Channels' as the exact comparison, MSNBC feeds, etc ). In many ways, the Windows 8 Start Screen in Metro is definitely an evolution of this ( with some ripping off of the SysTray concept as well ). It seems obvious to me that Microsoft has had it stuck in their head to get this on the user desktop for many years. I believe the ultimate goal is for Microsoft to have dedicated ports directly to the computer user, like an intravenous drip. It must seem like the holy grail to them, a HSN ( home shopping network ) based in Redmond and synced to your wallet. Hence all the recent discussion about new advertising paradigms. Thanks anyway, not buying. :no:

Anyway, there is a must-see discussion in the comments ( starts about here ) between a fanboy and a normal grown-up. It really covers a lot of ground and they actually both compose themselves very well. Funny Note: the site uses nested comments, and if you ever wondered what happens when it runs to near the absolute limit then check it out! It gets down to about 8 chars wide. :thumbup

The link to the comment might not work correctly. Just expand "Load More Comments" and search for trip1ex to find it.

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Microsoft’s sales lifecycle for Windows (which is different from its support lifecycle) specifies that retailers will be able to sell the boxed version of Windows 7 until at least October 25. 2013, and OEMs can sell PCs with Windows 7 pre-loaded until October 25, 2014.

So you get OEM PCs with Win7 until 2014.

http://www.zdnet.com/how-to-skip-windows-8-and-continue-using-windows-7-7000001734/

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Microsoft’s sales lifecycle for Windows (which is different from its support lifecycle) specifies that retailers will be able to sell the boxed version of Windows 7 until at least October 25. 2013, and OEMs can sell PCs with Windows 7 pre-loaded until October 25, 2014.

So you get OEM PCs with Win7 until 2014.

http://www.zdnet.com/how-to-skip-windows-8-and-continue-using-windows-7-7000001734/

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, in practice there is.

Spot the differences :whistle: :

Fictional conversation (Phone call or e-mail exchange) #1 that will happen in - say - January 2013 (in the case Windows 8 sells not as good as expected):

OEM: Hi guys, I need some 10,000 licenses for Windows 7 to put on the PC's I make/sell.

MS: No problem, you can have them, only the price has changed from 39.99 US$ each to 89.99 US$ each.

OEM: WHAT? :w00t:

MS: We have decided to reposition the product on the market and (insert here some commercial/marketing mumble-jumble as you wish) due to the (insert here some commercial/marketing mumble-jumble as you wish) .

OEM: Are you guys crazy?

MS: Not at all, we have decided to reposition the product (repeat the previous)

OEM: How can you expect I will be able to sell my product at a decent price?

MS: We have an alternative, you could get WIndows 8 licenses for only 29.99 US$

OEM: But my customers want windows 7, not 8.

MS: Your customers are wrong.

OEM: Maybe, but they are the guys who actually fork from money they have earned to give it to me so that I can give some to you.

MS: That doesn't matter, we have listened to customers and determined that Windows 8 is better and should be preferred to Windows 7.

OEM: But we have a signed contract with an option to buy more Windows 7 licenses at the same agreed upon price.

MS: Not, really if you check point #185.14§2 you will find how the option has an expiration date of December 31, 2012 and anyway clause #614.8§23 makes it void "in the evenience Microsoft will make available a newer OS"

OEM: OK, then I guess I will need to use Windows 8 or I will need to charge some 50 bucks more for the privilege of having Windows 7

Fictional conversation (Phone call or e-mail exchange) #2 that will happen in - say - January 2013 (in the case Windows 8 sells very well):

OEM: Hi guys, I need some 10,000 licenses for Windows 7 to put on the PC's I make/sell.

MS: No problem, you can have them, only the price has changed from 39.99 US$ each to 89.99 US$ each.

OEM: WHAT? :w00t:

MS: We have decided to reposition the product on the market and (insert here some commercial/marketing mumble-jumble as you wish) due to the (insert here some commercial/marketing mumble-jumble as you wish) .

OEM: Are you guys crazy?

MS: Not at all, we have decided to reposition the product (repeat the previous)

OEM: How can you expect I will be able to sell my product at a decent price?

MS: We have an alternative, you could get WIndows 8 licenses for only 29.99 US$

OEM: But my customers are a niche, notwithstanding the great success of 8 they want windows 7, not 8.

MS: Your customers are wrong.

OEM: Maybe, but they are the guys who actually fork from money they have earned to give it to me so that I can give some to you.

MS: That doesn't matter, we have listened to customers and determined that Windows 8 is better and should be preferred to Windows 7.

OEM: But we have a signed contract with an option to buy more Windows 7 licenses at the same agreed upon price.

MS: Not, really if you check point #185.14§2 you will find how the option has an expiration date of December 31, 2012 and anyway clause #614.8§23 makes it void "in the evenience Microsoft will make available a newer OS"

OEM: OK, then I guess I will need to use Windows 8 or I will need to charge some 50 bucks more for the privilege of having Windows 7

:angel

jaclaz

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Analyst says Windows 8 expectations have 'plummet[ed]' ( NeoWin 2012-10-15 )

The Fanboys of course are frothing at the mouth. How dare they publish one article out of dozens that does not heap praise upon this abomination. From the Business Insider article ...

Windows 8 Expectations Plummet and PC Trends to Remain Difficult. The sentiment around Windows 8 was overwhelmingly negative during our trip as the supply chain is experiencing little life ahead of the October 26 launch. Although October is expected to be the sweet spot for the notebook ramp for Windows 8, and further follow through is likely in November, we were warned of idle facilities in December...

steve-ballmer.jpg

Source: Business Insider

Windows 8 used by zombie in Walking Dead TV ad ( NeoWin 2012-10-15 )

You gotta admit MicroZombies does have a real nice ring to it. :lol:

Microsoft Windows 8 : So easy a Zombie can use it!

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