JorgeA

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

6,162 posts in this topic

Tripredacus,

Any ideas as to why Microsoft might have changed course and upped the price of the Surface to match the iPad rather than Android tablets?

--JorgeA

I'm fairly certain that the original $200 price would have Microsoft be in the red for at least a year or two before recouping profits from the app store. They would definately be selling the Surface at a loss to begin with, similar to how Verizon began installing FiOS to customers for free. The idea is to get the product out there, wow people by the price and then recoup the losses later with something else.

Microsoft was in high hopes for Windows 8 when that figure first came out. Since then to now, we know that customers aren't sold on Windows 8 yet. Intel spoke out about it, game companies spoke out about it, app developers spoke out about it (and the new Visual Studio) and those complainers about the missing Start Menu. And we have seen a recent article that the amount of apps available on the Store itself is still pretty paltry. I can say "from the inside" that Windows 8 also brings a lot of changes and requirements not previously seen in Windows releases. There is a lot of push back by ODMs, resulting in a low participation rate from them leading to certain compatibility issues.

See, Microsoft has been banking on the Metro Style Apps, the paid ones. Profit sharing between the developers/publishers, Microsoft and OEMs, all with purchases or microtransactions. But we have seen from all the negative hype about it (just look at this thread) likely directly led to the lackluster selection of apps in the store. This means that the initial forcast of App purchases is probably greatly reduced by now.... and that the Surface product price HAD to change, since I bet (I have no confirmation on this, just a hunch) that the cheap Surface price was set because they could offset the losses based on App Store revenue.

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@LakotaRising: you don't get it, do you?

It's the freedom of choice that WAS REMOVED from Windows 8, not the start menu.

Me, I don't give a rat's a** over Windows 8 as long as I have other (better IMHO) options - but IF we allow MS to take away OUR FREEDOM OF CHOICE, this means we're no more than sheep - like in the Samsung Galaxy III advertisement. ;)

Believe me I get it. But it's my choice to use it. It runs my games smoother then Win7 x64 ever did. I use what works. So I use it at this time. If Win8 stops working for me, then I go back to Win7. Simple. But the moment Steam works on Linux natively for all my games, it's bye-bye Windows for good.

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~snipped~

Microsoft stock price nearly flat today after Surface reveal ( NeoWin 2012-10-16 )

Yeah, I know that it doesn't really mean anything, especially with MSFT resembling a flatlined EKG for a decade. But watching the fanboys have strokes is cheap entertainment. Especially when NeoWin, aka Fanboy Central, writes this ...

After rising briefly in the middle part of the trading day on NASDAQ, Microsoft's stock price settled at the end of the day at $29.49 a share. That's a dip, compared to the previous day's trading, of just two cents, or 0.07 percent. That would seem to suggest that investors don't think the Surface will be a disaster for Microsoft, but they also don't seem to believe it will be a huge boost for the company's financial position either.

By contrast, Apple's stock price went up by 2.4 percent in trading today. Apple announced earlier today it would be holding a press event on October 23rd, where the company is highly expected to reveal a smaller version of its iPad and possibly more hardware products.

:lol: The only way that thing will rise is when Ballmer is fired or resigns and Sinofsky follows him out the door.

Fanboys at Neowin? Your quite mistaken. There is a mix of people. Some there are like me. I use it because it works for me, but hate what it looks like. Then you have people there that hate it and you also have the ones who love it. So why not stop all these insane posts about "Win8 fanboys of Neowin".

Edited by LakotaRising
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Fanboys at Neowin? Your quite mistaken. There is a mix of people. Some there are like me. I use it because it works for me, but hate what it looks like. Then you have people there that hate it and you also have the ones who love it. So why not stop all these insane posts about "Win8 fanboys of Neowin".

Who said everyone over there is a Fanboy? You're not the only one reading and posting at NeoWin. Some of us, like me have been there for a decade and are well-suited to recognize changes like when it has been over-run by generation Xbox spoiled children. So obviously the term "Fanboy Central" does not mean that everyone there is a Fanboy because I would have to be one also. Please develop a sense of humor, your blood pressure will thank you for it.

For example here is a thread over there from about two months ago that isn't by a Fanboy. It is quite funny because the Fanboys that it lampoons all blindly jump in reveling in their cluelessness over the topic, which highlights their own typical Fanboy rebuttal to adults criticizing the forced Metro-only removed-StartMenu paradigm: "If you don't like it just pin your program to the taskbar and STFU!"

How Pro Windows 8 users want Anti Windows 8 users to use Windows 8 ( NeoWin Forums 2012-08-09 )

A picture is worth a thousand words ...

The responses are hilarious precisely because they don't get it. The image demonstrates exactly what they impulsively tell the so-called "haters" to do, yet they still cannot understand it! Cognitive Dissonance. :lol:

EDIT: updated image URL, and again

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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Microsoft Turns the Surface Tablet Into a Skateboard ( Tom's Hardware 2012-10-17 )

Sinofsky uses Surface as a skateboard, Tony Hawk is jealous ( NeoWin 2012-10-17 )

Will this be the next controversy? I mean, is it legitimate or another half-truth? Was it wheels attached to a Surface or merely a tablet strapped onto a skateboard? Did it still work? Where is the video? Why didn't they have Ballmer standing on it? :lol:

With Surface looming, Microsoft fails to explain Windows 8 vs. Windows RT to consumers ( The Verge 2012-10-17 )

They even have some of the quotes from the salesmen in nice little graphics like this ...

nate2.png

The thrust of the article is about the ignorance of salespeople in charge of selling the thing in the first place. No surprise considering how well managed Microsoft is these days.

The larger point is the Windows RT ( and WP8 ) versus regular Windows 8 sharing the identical interface, not to menton the name "Windows" is very problematic. High confusion factor and pretty much par for the course for the same Microsoft braintrust that stepped into the Metro naming fiasco. I would go further and say it is intentional obfuscation and is one of the reasons the EULA has been changed to thwart class action lawsuits. Does anyone really believe that they are not counting on people mistakenly believing that RT will run x86 Windows software? It should have been a completely new name, not "Windows", because it is NOT "Windows" at all. It is disgraceful and deceptive and they are seriously sticking their necks out again.

Another reason for the EULA change will be evident when novice computer users and n00bs see all the smiling people on the commercials happily swiping their screens and they then run out and buy the upgrade and go crazy poking and prodding their "legacy" displays wondering why the thing just doesn't work! I noted way upthread that we should watch the commercials for a: "DISCLAIMER: Touchscreen Display Required for Swiping" to see if their legal department isn't totally incompetent. The few videos and commercials I have seen so far do not indicate any disclaimer.

Yet a third reason for the EULA change might be for those Darwin Award contenders that purchase desktop touchscreens and spend hours and hours reaching out and wonder why their arms have turned to Jello.

IMHO, there is a lot of incompetence or shadiness in this whole thing. It is about the sale, the trend, the fad, but NOT the user. It really never has been, but it is getting worse. The net result of this experiment will be higher computer prices and less value for more money for the first time, ever. This Windows 8 thing must crash and burn for the good of everyone involved. That's what I think.

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The larger point is the Windows RT ( and WP8 ) versus regular Windows 8 sharing the identical interface, not to menton the name "Windows" is very problematic. High confusion factor and pretty much par for the course for the same Microsoft braintrust that stepped into the Metro naming fiasco. I would go further and say it is intentional obfuscation and is one of the reasons the EULA has been changed to thwart class action lawsuits. Does anyone really believe that they are not counting on people mistakenly believing that RT will run x86 Windows software? It should have been a completely new name, not "Windows", because it is NOT "Windows" at all. It is disgraceful and deceptive and they are seriously sticking their necks out again.

Great post all around, but this is the (IMHO) most important point! Because MS has made Windows 8 and Windows RT look the same, a lot of regular folks are going to expect Windows RT to do the same things as Windows 8, so they're being set up for a lot of disappointment (not to say frustration and anger) when they find out that it DOESN'T.

Based on prior history where MSFT stock spikes just before the launch of a new OS, I had intended to buy a few weeks ago, but now I'm glad that I procrastinated. If the pattern were to hold, it should have gone up by now. There may still be a bounce in the price, but I'm not sure it'll be worth the effort. As public anger builds against MS, I wouldn't be surprised if ultimately the stock even dropped from its current level.

Meanwhile, there's been another less-than-glowing review of Windows 8 and analysis of its prospects. The curious thing is that the general praise is warm, but the details are icy:

The problem is that Windows 8 apps arent unique, sure the UI is, but thats it. The functionality of these apps are not, I can get desktop apps to do the same + more.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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IMHO you are making it bigger than it really is :unsure: :

http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/17/3514556/windows-8-vs-windows-rt-surface-confused-microsoft-store-employees

  • One rep told me that only mobile apps would run on Windows RT.
  • When I asked about the Surface with Windows RT, one rep explicitly corrected me, saying that "the Microsoft Surface RT has Windows 8 on it."
  • One rep told me "They're pretty much the same thing, there is no real huge difference beside the RT is more touch friendly." Minutes later, they admitted: "also it can not do an installation of x86/64 and desktop software."
  • When I asked what "x86/64 software" was, the rep told me this: "It's nothing you'd care about, that's more for people who are building their own software." "I honestly can't say there's much a difference at all when it comes to a regular computer user. For an average user the differences between the pro and RT are slim."

nate1.png

It's easy, if you don't build your own software you shouldn't care about it.... :whistle:

For NO apparent reason:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/legacy-is-not-a-pejorative.html

jaclaz

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If Win8 stops working for me, then I go back to Win7. Simple. But the moment Steam works on Linux natively for all my games, it's bye-bye Windows for good.

It's curious that you and I might end up in the same place (Linux) coming from totally different routes!

--JorgeA

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Toshiba Windows 8 PCs get their own "Desktop Assist Program" ( NeoWin 2012-10-18 )

First commercial version of Start8 for Windows 8 released ( NeoWin 2012-10-19 )

Stardock's Start-menu replacement has gone gold. Toshiba says it has plans to enter the Start-Menu sweepstakes with their own launcher. The Fanboys are scornful. :lol: In fact one of them who is an administrator over there actually thinks Microsoft should stop OEM's ( and no doubt all of us ) from tampering with the perfection that is Windows 8 and Metro: "Yes, me too. So they can start to restrict the kind of crap OEMs install on people's computers. . . .". Later he adds: "If average users can't handle this change and it's "too much" for them, that is entirely their fault, and I'm glad Microsoft aren't harming my user experience just to cater to those people who can't be bothered to understand or learn a new interface.". Yep, we're doing it wrong.

Microsoft holding Windows 8 training session at its stores ( NeoWin 2012-10-18 )

Okay, now let me understand this. Microsoft is willing to shell out for the huge cost of Windows 8 Metro clinics and seminars instead of just leaving the darned Start Menu in place. No doubt they spent some perfectly good development money on breaking and then disappearing the code needed to keep the Start Menu where it was all along. And at RTM they added a little hot-corners help thingie, visible once at first boot, but not a fancy full-fledged tutorial available on-demand, perhaps tied to the F1 HELP key or even on one of the tiles! This really is amateur hour. See a couple of months ago: The Windows 8 'tutorial' is a joke ( ZDNet 2012-08-22 ).

Finally, a random example of why splattering the "Start-Menu" onto a full-screen of "live" tiles will evolve into the biggest setback for personal privacy and security we have ever seen ...

My T-Mobile app for Windows in the Windows Store Preview ( apps.microsoft.com )

Description

My T-Mobile provides an integrated Mobile Broadband account experience for Windows 8 OS. The live-tile displays the current data usage information, billing cycle, and key notifications from T-Mobile. It intelligently determines the currently associated plan to show the appropriate experience in a simple and intuitive manner based on the status of the plan. Provides a seamless connection experience to purchase plans or to top-up data. Saves all the T-Mobile toast pop-up notifications for later viewing. Help & Support section provides friendly troubleshooting and self-help tips.

This application requires a T-Mobile data SIM card to function.

This is the proverbial tip-of-the-iceberg. Coming soon to a tile near you, billing and balance information from Visa, Mastercard and American Express. Statements from your bank and reports from your brokers and the Social Security Administration. All this data rendered in plain text on a computer screen or a single tap away. Hackers and Cyber-Criminals will have never had it so easy. The Fanboys will say "there is a lock screen!" Yeah, but there are live tiles after that, and what are the dummies gonna keep on their Phone/Tablet/Netbook/Laptop display, the lock screen or the live tiles? Microsoft is selling the live tiles hard and so are the Fanboys. There is only one way this thing can go and that is we wll now have a new class of devices even less secure than current laptops and cellphones - Windows 8 live tiles devices where the user is always on the Start Screen waiting for the Email or Facebook or some other thing to increment. I am surprised this has gotten very little attention. Wait 'til the first big virus hits. Yeah I know, they'll blame it on the desktop side.

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Toshiba Windows 8 PCs get their own "Desktop Assist Program" ( NeoWin 2012-10-18 )

First commercial version of Start8 for Windows 8 released ( NeoWin 2012-10-19 )

Stardock's Start-menu replacement has gone gold. Toshiba says it has plans to enter the Start-Menu sweepstakes with their own launcher. The Fanboys are scornful. :lol: In fact one of them who is an administrator over there actually thinks Microsoft should stop OEM's ( and no doubt all of us ) from tampering with the perfection that is Windows 8 and Metro: "Yes, me too. So they can start to restrict the kind of crap OEMs install on people's computers. . . .". Later he adds: "If average users can't handle this change and it's "too much" for them, that is entirely their fault, and I'm glad Microsoft aren't harming my user experience just to cater to those people who can't be bothered to understand or learn a new interface.". Yep, we're doing it wrong.

Well, I can't go into details but Microsoft already has these rules for OEMs. The problem is that no software maker is following them. And there is a rule about not installing anything that adds a Start Menu back, replaces the Start Screen or including any program that can access the Store, display Metro style apps, etc. This partly relates to my previous post about ODMs not fully embracing the new "rules" regarding Windows 8.

So to put it bluntly, Toshiba CANNOT ship a system as an OEM that includes a Start Menu replacer.

If this product is allowed to be released, what you will be seeing is a full-on revolt by OEMs and ODMs against Microsoft. :o

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Are you guys going to post EVERY negative article that comes out about Windows 8?

I'm sorry but this topic is nothing but a diarrhea of articles, I'd even go as far as saying this is bordering on spam

OK we get it, you don't like Windows 8

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Are you guys going to post EVERY negative article that comes out about Windows 8?

I'm sorry but this topic is nothing but a diarrhea of articles, I'd even go as far as saying this is bordering on spam

OK we get it, you don't like Windows 8

Thank you Rick. Was getting a bit tedious. This whole "I hate Win8, going back to Win7", is the same we read back when Win7 first came out. Tons of people were spouting "I hate Win7, going back to XP." I'm just glad that people who have positive experiences with Win8, aren't getting bashed for posting about liking Win8, like some did with Win7.

Everyone has an opinion, just like everyone has an _______. But come on people, enough's enough.

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Are you guys going to post EVERY negative article that comes out about Windows 8?

I'm sorry but this topic is nothing but a diarrhea of articles, I'd even go as far as saying this is bordering on spam

OK we get it, you don't like Windows 8

ricktendo64 (and @LakotaRising),

I started this thread back in January, for the purpose of offering "deeper impressions" on Windows 8 (beyond the "first impressions" given in a previous thread), and you're welcome to contribute your own.

That said, as the mods will attest, the thread has developed over time. There is no shortage of places to go for anyone who wishes to read articles cheerleading for Windows 8. It's easy to get one's fill of that. This thread has evolved largely into a place where people who (for whatever reasons) are not enamored of Win8, can come to collect and obtain information to balance out what we see as the marketing hype and boosterism available elsewhere.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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Remember my Sega Saturn comparison?

There is another problem, as well. The company showed its hand too soon. The media (and Microsoft’s competitors) know what’s coming, but there hasn’t been a ton of ink slung at it yet because they’re either under embargo or they haven’t actually seen anything. They have to wait a few more weeks before they can start writing. But what else is going on in the coming weeks? Well, on the 16th — the same day Microsoft announced Surface RT pricing, availability, and pre-orders — Apple sent out an invitation to an iPad mini event on Oct. 23, just days before Microsoft’s big show in New York. On Wednesday, Google announced its own Android event on Oct. 29, which will take place just three hours before Microsoft’s launch in San Francisco, and a day before Build in Redmond. Oh, and can you guess when Apple — now the world’s biggest company — announces its first earnings post-iPhone 5? Oct. 24.

Bottom line: Microsoft’s big launches are about to be buried in a deluge of news from other companies.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/10/why-windows-just-cant-win/

:rolleyes:

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