JorgeA

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

6,162 posts in this topic

Interest for Surface RT Dropped After Launch, Study Reveals ( Tom's Hardware 2012-12-17 )

Now we know why the sudden jump to retail stores, huh? Yet another ridiculous idea ( to sell only in Microsoft Stores and online ) that needed reversal. Try as I may, I just cannot think of a wise decision out of Redmond in a very long while, but we can whip up a giant list of turds starting with the Start Menu removal. It is evidence of supreme arrogance allowing that one to remain in place to this very day.

Wow, the "desire" to have a Surface dropped from 45 percent to 21 percent after customers learned the device's price and specs.

A good comment posted on that page, that clearly explains the how and why of the drop in interest in the Surface RT:

I knew a lot of people, including myself that had a HIGH level of interest in this product. I do not own a tablet and was considering this one as my first. When their pricing came out we ALL said no. Microsoft released a NEW product at a premium price. The iPad and many Android tables have been in the market for years and people generally know what they are getting when they buy one. What genius at Microsoft thought they could jump right into the game without proving themselves to the consumer? If the RT came out at $399 WITH the keyboard, every person I know would have bought one instantly. We all talked about it and were hoping for that pricing. But no. Microsoft wanted top dollar for their product and no one wants to gamble on it. Here is an idea taken from other successful products. Take a hit on your first generation and get it into the marketplace. Then with the second gen, add more goodies and up the price. Microsoft, you killed the Surface yourself.

And the next commenter writes of the Surface Pro:

at $999 I might as well buy a laptop instead

Bingo.

Possibly the most insightful comment:

The consumers have never lost interest in the RT as there was none to begin with. RT will fail, so will W8.

:angel

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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I would like to have some comments on this research, on it's accuracy and overall on the fact that Forrester research was actually paid for this:

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=36051

Particularly check Figures #7 and #8 on page 9 of the report (Figure #8 has to be read at the light of Figure #3 on page 5)

I was going to download this report to read on my Vista PC, but then I saw this --

System requirements

Supported operating systems: Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows Server 2003, Windows Server 2008, Windows Server 2012

-- and realized that my PC didn't meet Microsoft's requirements for the download, so I didn't go any further. :whistle:

--JorgeA

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In-app Advertising To Hit $10 Billion By 2016: Informa

Gosh, do you guys think that enthusiasts of the Metro UI will be getting bombarded by advertising right on their monitors as they're trying to get serious things done?

Oh, wait -- the Metro interface isn't for getting serious things done, it's designed to facilitate trivial pursuits. Sorry about that, never mind...

--JorgeA

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I would like to have some comments on this research, on it's accuracy and overall on the fact that Forrester research was actually paid for this:

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=36051

Particularly check Figures #7 and #8 on page 9 of the report (Figure #8 has to be read at the light of Figure #3 on page 5)

Then check how people can read it:

http://blogs.windows.com/ie/b/ie/archive/2012/12/13/ten-reasons-why-internet-explorer-10-is-best-for-business.aspx

Well I'm pretty much gonna need some insulin after overloading on all that sugar coating.

I cannot comment on the accuracy, I'll leave that for those in Enterprise IT. Let me just say that it sounds like a lotta marketdroid nonsense. Here is a real loaded sentence in the Forrester research ...

In September 2012, Microsoft commissioned Forrester Consulting to evaluate the considerations that IT managers weigh when deciding to standardize on a single modern browser or to support or allow the use of nonstandard browsers in the enterprise.

That is my emphasis ( and IMHO ) on their pre-positioning of MSIE as modern browser and the competition ( Chrome? ) as nonstandard browsers, and juxtaposing them on opposite sides of the word "or" . That is plain laughable considering that the most mainstream ( MSIE ) has been the least "standard" over the past decade while the most obscure ( Opera ) has usually been the most "standard". I tried reading it, but I really can't stomach it. I suspect everything that follows such an Executive Summary will be nothing but confirmation bias.

Over on the Microsoft page "Ten Reasons Why Internet Explorer 10 is Best for Business" we see their Pavlovian need to immediately and obediently succumb to the meme and market drivel with the first two being #1 Fast and #2 Fluid ( NB: Diarrhea is also fast and fluid, and like Ballmer is circling the drain ). What do those words even mean anyway? Nothing. Market drivel.

Then they have three whoppers full of chutzpah ...

Reason #6, Safer ( we are supposedly talking about MSIE right? ), I'd say this is dangerously close to Seinfeld material. I'm not even sure if this is a gag now, perhaps it is April 1 on some calendar somewhere?

Reason #8, Compatibility and migration support cites "preserves development investments with emulation for IE9, IE8, IE7, and “quirks” modes" while leaving out the high-profile MSIE6 lurch that these same corporates are trying to now correct. Yeah, they should trust Microsoft to never use planned obsolescence against them again ( or to release a buggy browser in the first place ).

Reason #9, Support for modern standards ( what is it with the word modern anyway? How about standards, period ). Microsoft speaking about web browser adherrance to standards is like a partially reformed alcoholic lecturing us on drinking.

Those five reasons right there expose this whole Forrester-Microsoft thing as a staged setup for Windows 8 and MSIE, an exercise in publicity that only P.T. Barnum could appreciate.

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Well this story about Dell asking that Microsoft not use "Windows" in the naming of Windows RT has been around for over a week now but here is a little bit more ...

Dell Warned Microsoft Over Windows RT Branding, Claims Dell Executive ( Maximum PC 2012-12-18 )

Ballmer's quote is bad enough, and shows that he has no respect for the "Windows" brand by tying ARM and RT around its neck like an albatross ...

But, obviously, nothing of that sort ever came to pass. In his reply, Ballmer told Clarke that the “Windows” name was far too important to be dropped. And that was that.

"That was that." What a ridiculous thought process which occurs in that buffon's head. No-one said to drop it. They said be accurate. Be honest. Have these concepts ever crossed your mind?

Then, one of the Dell dummies chimes in ...

This is what Neil Hand, the man in charge of Dell’s tablet business, told The Australian Financial Review in an interview: “Making sure we educate the market place on the differences was going to be a necessary action no matter what. Just calling it something different is not going to solve the problem.

Actually it would solve the problem liar. More importantly it would be the right thing to do, and the honest thing to do. What you are rationalizing is obfuscation, the blurring of the definitions. Not only is it not even "Windows" in the proper plural sense, but it is as crazy as using "Windows CE" for MIPS or ARM. Except that this time the product is generally available to people that do not know the difference. Snake Oil or Used Car salesman are more honest.

None of these fools should be allowed to go near the product called "Windows". They will only destroy it.

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Seems to me like the "Corporate Malaise" caused by CEOs surrounding themselves with "Yes Men" and a**ehole creepers.

Who was it who said "I dont want anybody who isnt kicking my a*s*"?

Please excuse my french

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Once set aside the bias and the pre-made thesis and conclusions (obvious since it was a commissioned study and not an independent one - should such thing as an independent survey/statistic exists), the issue is actually with numbers.

Base is 113 people (too small to have any significance), but the actual "key" results are formed on the base of only 51 replies.

Please note how in figure 3, 96% of the 113 have standardized on a "single web browser".

Logically the 51% that DO NOT allow an alternative browser have NO way to know the costs connected on having it on the enterprise.

As well the 13% that do allow for it but provide NO support for it have NO costs related to the support which is not provided.

The 32% that do allow for it and provide support on a best-effort basis can be divided in two groups:

  1. the ones that are complete morons, offer support for this, have no idea of the costs of this "best-effort" basis and continue offering this support notwithstanding the possible financial damage (of unknown entity) they are making to the company
  2. the ones that are not complete morons, offer support for this, bear the costs of this "best-effort" basis and continue offering this support and allowing multi-browser as they found that these supplemental costs are trifling

So we have from a minimum of (51%+13%+0%=64%) to a maximum of (51%+13%+32%=96%) of the interviewed people that cannot possibly know the costs involved in supporting multiple web browsers, leaving us with a range between 4% and 36% of people that might know these costs.

But 51/113=45.13% replied to question 7, of these 10% replied "don't know" which reduces the actual "informed" base from 51 to 46.

Still 46/113=40.7% (i.e. higher than the possible amount of people that might actually know these costs)

Now let's read the Figure 7.

We have 7 values in it, you can try to sum them every which way you want, but you can never get a total of 86%.

If you sum the first five you get 4%+2%+14%+12%+45%=77%

To get 87% (NOT 86% and yes, the overall total makes 101%) you have to sum to the above the last value of 10% (the few honest people that replied "I don't know") :w00t:

So we have that when you reply "Don't know" you are actually saying that your multi-browser strategy added significant costs.

It is to note how the relative majority, 45%, actually replied "Less than 20% higher" while the next alternative voted by 14% was "No change".

This swiftly means that if you actually had a multi-browser strategy AND you knew the attached costs AND you could express them in a percentage (of WHAT) of 1% or 2%, your vote would be taken as saying multi-browser strategy added significant costs.

Please note how the question is worded "If you were to estimate ...." (this actually allows the large majority of people that as seen has no ways to know the actual costs to produce their estimation or guesses :w00t: ).

Figure 8 makes no sense whatsoever, as said only a part of the 51 people replying could have possibly these data, noone can possibly have them divided into the categories, and the actual unit of measure makes no sense.

People were asked what were the costs related to internal web applications as a result of their multi-browser strategy (that 96% of the people have NOT, since they standardized on a single web browser) but how this relates to actual real word units of measure?

If you spend additional US$ 10.000,00 to test a web app as a result of your firm multi-browser strategy, and this app is used by 10 (ten) people, you are actually spending US$ 1,000,00 per app per seat (and you are a complete moron :realmad: ), if the app is used by your 10,000 employees, it makes a nice round US$1.00 per app per seat.

They are not exactly the same "kind" of money :whistle: .

Whilst the question #7 had that "vague" wording, the question in #8 allows NOT estimates or guesses, it represents actual spent money (and as said at the very maximum only 36% - more likely much less than that - of the 113 interviewed, i.e. 40 people may have had spent any money on this)

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
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Great analysis, jaclaz -- you picked apart the report very well.

I rushed through reading it and, although I knew there was something about it that bothered me, I couldn't put my finger on it. You identified the problem areas.

Meanwhile, more bad news for the Surface RT:

Microsoft Surface Demand Weak Vs. Apple iPad, Others

"Feedback from the supply chain indicates continued weakening demand trends for the Microsoft Surface tablet," Pacific Crest analyst John Vinh said in a research note Thursday. "We believe component orders declined another 25% in Q4. This is in addition to two previous downward revisions in orders in the quarter. We are estimating shipments of 1.5 million units in Q4."

--JorgeA

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Seems to me like the "Corporate Malaise" caused by CEOs surrounding themselves with "Yes Men" and a**ehole creepers.

Who was it who said "I dont want anybody who isnt kicking my a*s*"?

Please excuse my french

Your French is excused, thanks to the substance of the message! :yes:

--JorgeA

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Windows 8: So easy, a child will show you how to use it ( NeoWin 2012-12-19 )

~sigh~ Another Mojave moment complete with a video of a child demonstrating Windows 8. That patented arrogance and knee-jerk need to insult their customers shows up again. Pathetic.

Dear Microsoft, no-one says Windows 8 is difficult. They in fact say it is for children. Clearly It was designed for children, written by children, managed by children if some of these petty Apple-esqe fiascos of the past couple of weeks are any indicator. Unlike the Windows XP default theme which you now criticize and deride as Fisher-Price, this whole thing is Playskool. Of course a child would be a perfect demonstrator at a Microsoft booth. You are completely hopeless.

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Dear Microsoft, no-one says Windows 8 is difficult.

I guess it's a matter of meanings.

Windows 8 in itself is nothing but a (hopefully bettered) Windows 7.

The issue is it's NCI which is INCONVENIENT:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/inconvenient

in·con·ven·ient (nkn-vnynt)

adj.

Not convenient, especially:

a. Not accessible; hard to reach.

b. Not suited to one's comfort, purpose, or needs: inconvenient to have no phone in the kitchen.

c. Inopportune: Next Tuesday is inconvenient for us.

NOT particularly in meaning a., but in meanings b. and c.

Additionally it is CUMBERSOME:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cumbersome

in the sense of:

cumbersome

adjective

1. awkward, heavy, hefty (informal), clumsy, bulky, weighty, impractical, inconvenient, burdensome, unmanageable, clunky (informal), cumbrous Although the machine looks cumbersome, it is easy to use.

2. inefficient, unwieldy, badly organized an old and cumbersome computer system

In this case a new and cumbersome computer system.

jaclaz

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Speaking of MSIE, There are moments when Microsoft comes dangerously close to telling the truth ...

Microsoft prepares for the Mayan apocalypse with IE10 campaign ( NeoWin 2012-12-20 )

... some people believe the world will end, at least according to one interpretation of the ancient calendar of the Mayan civilization. Microsoft has decided to use this non-event to continue its previous "Browser You Loved To Hate" campaign for Internet Explorer.

Well, the truth in the sense that they are at least half right by referencing the sordid past of MSIE. Whether they have learned anything, it is way too soon to tell. Example Images from this page ...

tumblr_mfal2nWP3r1rrdop8o1_r1_500.pngtumblr_mfcfk97JvR1rrdop8o1_500.png

Blackberry 10 defeats Windows Phone 8 in browser face off! ( NeoWin 2012-12-20 )

Oh nevermind. I have just learned in the NeoWin comments that benchmarks don't really mean anything after all.

Google contemplating a $99 Nexus 7 ( NeoWin 2012-12-20 )

This would begin quite a flood of low-priced, high-volume consumer appliances. Let the bloodletting begin. So much for Microsoft getting a meaningful percentage of that mobile space. Couple this with the many other rumors of numerous new really cheap phones from a variety of vendors and re-sellers and there is a good chance that Microsoft will gain nothing numerically in total percentage after all is said and done. The sacrifice of the Windows brand reputation will have been all for naught. Great thinking guys.

My disgraceful Microsoft Surface experience at Best Buy ( Microsoft-News.com 2012-12-19 )

( from a new site I never heard of before yesterday that was mentioned at The Verge ). The author, a Microsoft Fanboy, describes in detail with photos a visit to Best Buy to scope out the Surface in person. He was not happy with the half-hearted presentation compared to Apple and other products. It appears that simply releasing them to the big box stores is not enough, they will need to go the extra mile in creativity and slickness if they want to penetrate other products' turf. In this case they just phoned it in. His disappointment makes for a fun read. Get used to it.

Pokki has had 500,000 downloads of its Windows 8 Start menu program ( NeoWin 2012-12-20 )

Not the kind of news that will make the NeoWin commenters very happy. Let me share with you the wisdom from one of the geniuses: "This kinds of software are really bad for innovation, I hope Microsoft will do something about it.". :lol: What is interesting ( and you might want to mention this in the Start Menu Replacements thread Jorge ) is that they ( Pokki ) are clearly gathering their own telemetry. That would be a dealbreaker for me if I was using it ( it is not a free app ). Regardless, as one of the sane commenters points out, when you consider the other alternatives like Classic Shell ( someone says 2.5 million, perhaps XpClient can verify ) there are a lot of installs of Start Menu replacers into the turd called Windows 8. :thumbup

Microsoft: FBR Slices Estimates On Soft Windows 8 Debut ( Forbes 2012-12-20 )

The evidence is growing that Microsoft Windows 8 is off to a disappointing start.

...

Hilal reaches two primary conclusions: Windows 8 commercial OS installed base will be smaller after one year than XP or Windows 7, although larger than Vista.

...

MSFT today is up 25 cents, or 0.9%, to $27.56.

Don't shoot the messenger. BTW, I'm not sure it will pass Vista after one year, or ever.

EDIT: add another link

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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My disgraceful Microsoft Surface experience at Best Buy ( Microsoft-News.com 2012-12-19 )

( from a new site I never heard of before yesterday that was mentioned at The Verge ). The author, a Microsoft Fanboy, describes in detail with photos a visit to Best Buy to scope out the Surface in person. He was not happy with the half-hearted presentation compared to Apple and other products. It appears that simply releasing them to the big box stores is not enough, they will need to go the extra mile in creativity and slickness if they want to penetrate other products' turf. In this case they just phoned it in. His disappointment makes for a fun read. Get used to it.

The spec sheet in that article has conflicting information. On the specs side, it says it weighs 1.5 pounds. But in the feature list it says it weighs less than 1.5 pounds! :wacko:

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The spec sheet in that article has conflicting information. On the specs side, it says it weighs 1.5 pounds. But in the feature list it says it weighs less than 1.5 pounds! :wacko:

Sure :), that depends on how much you fill the 16 Gb you are given of local storage.

As everyone knows, 1's weight a little bit more than 0's (because the 0's are full of air).

jaclaz

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Pokki has had 500,000 downloads of its Windows 8 Start menu program ( NeoWin 2012-12-20 )

[...]What is interesting ( and you might want to mention this in the Start Menu Replacements thread Jorge ) is that they ( Pokki ) are clearly gathering their own telemetry. That would be a dealbreaker for me if I was using it ( it is not a free app ).

Consider it done (mentioning this tracking in the Start Menu Replacements thread).

I visited Pokki's blog after seeing the graphic in Neowin reporting "30 Start Menu replacements 30 days after launch of Windows 8." I was hoping to find either more choices to add to the MSFN list, or maybe a mention of our list there. :)

The most interesting datapoint was the graph showing a threefold increase in Google searches for "Windows 8 Start Menu" in the weeks after Win8's launch.

--JorgeA

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