JorgeA

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

6,162 posts in this topic

Extra! Extra! Read all about it!

Paul Thurrott critiques the Windows 8 UI and proposes giving users the choice to boot directly to the desktop!!!

It’s just customer-centric common sense.
But I think Windows 8 users deserve more than a cheap Registry key hack. I think Windows 8, modern and intelligent OS that it is, should do the work. And when you first boot into Windows 8, and the Start screen appears, you should see something like the following:

post-287775-0-54154700-1356155748_thumb.

Edited by JorgeA
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And in a separate article, Thurrott makes the intriguing argument that, in one important respect, Microsoft did not copy Apple enough:

Windows 7 and Windows 8 were developed in abject isolation from the outside world, because Microsoft disbanded the beta testing teams that had previously offered feedback at a very early point in development. Here, Microsoft was cherry-picking from the Apple playbook -- creating products in secret -- while ignoring the most important parts of that company’s strategy, such as its emphasis on keeping its products aggressively simple and effective. Dictating from on high only works when you make something that everyone loves.
Today, like Windows Vista before it, Windows 8 is starting to succumb to death by a thousand cuts. But it’s not too late, Microsoft, and your customers would love to help you design a product they want to buy. All you have to do is ask.

--JorgeA

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for those Thurrott links. It seems that there is a bit of pent-up frustration and backlogged suggestions that was just waiting to get released and Thurrott's suggestions opened the floodgates. Most comments I've seen there in a while ( when he allows comments ). The first link ( Fixing Windows 8, Part 1: App Bar ) is mostly constructive, if half-hearted. By the 2nd link, ( Fixing Windows 8, Part 2: Boot to the Desktop ) the fanboys are no longer amused. And considering that Thurrott is pretty much the definition of that word, when his fanboys get angry and out-do him it becomes a wonder to behold.

For example, we have this marvelous exchange ...

Arrogant Uber-Fanboy ... I understand the desire for this, but I disagree. The future is Metro, both on traditional machines and desktop. You're writing about how to make Windows 8 better, and basically saying "give me Windows 7" feels like a cop-out. I'd rather read about how you think Microsoft could improve Windows 8 for traditional desktop users, like your last Fixing Windows 8 article. For the past week, I've been using an app called Code Writer for coding websites. I'm doing this at a professional design firm, and I'm just as productive as I was in the desktop. When an app is written to work well with both keyboard/mouse and touch, there's no need for the desktop.

Thurrott ... Ridiculous. And your comment confirms it: Metro is the future. Yep. It is. I'm using it today, however, and like most Windows 8 users, I'm doing so on a traditional, non-touch PC. Computers should work the way I want, not force me into a UX paradigm "of the future" that makes no sense on my current hardware. That's the point of this, not to subvert Metro, but for their to be a fricking choice. I cannot believe this is not obvious.

Arrogant Uber-Fanboy ... Like I said, I completely understand why you want this. I just think that if Microsoft makes this an option, people will stick to the desktop, and at that point, why even include Metro on a traditional computer? I'd much rather see a more refined version of Metro that makes using it on a traditional machine better than watch Microsoft backtrack and offer the same interface we've been using for 15+ years. I completely get why you don't like Metro on a non-touch machine in its current state, but going back to the desktop in the next update to Windows isn't the solution (even if that's a minor update to Windows 8). Fixing Metro is.

My, my. What a cute little dictator. I'll use whatever I want. Get it? It is also ironic that baby dictator is arguing with Paul "The Desktop Must Die" Thurrott ( see Post #866 )

The 3rd link, Windows 8: Death by a Thousand Cuts? is also worth reading, but still understated. One problem I see is that Thurrott, like so many of the ignoramuses do not even have a basic understanding of the marketplace and the customers ...

Thurrott ... The problem Microsoft now faces, however, is compounded by a number of issues. Windows Vista, whatever its problems, was a traditional PC operating system aimed at traditional PCs. The competition it faced, such as it was, was Apple’s Mac OS X. At that time, the Cupertino juggernaut hadn’t even released the first iPhone, let alone the iPod touch or iPad. And no offense to Mac fans, but there was only so much ground the Mac was ever going to make up.

Wrong! Apple was not a competitor to Vista, Nor was it a competitor to any version of Windows. We cannot choose the Mac OS unless we are talking hackintosh, and that is no option at all. Get it through your heads, Vista's competition was Windows XP, and it lost that battle. The problem here is that these MicroZombies in their obsessive-compulsive Apple-envy have succumbed to a mental illness. It is a very convenient mental illness because it allows them to completely ignore all previous version of Windows ( the only true alternative available to the customer, thus the only true competition ) thereby escaping any significant and meaningful actual comparison of the new Windows they are promoting. In short, by using Apple as a foil they get to avoid constructive and genuine criticism of their baby.

I found this one little bit interesting though as it expands upon our discussion above ( Post #1373 ) ...

Thurrott ... Microsoft also claims, curiously, and, I think, disingenuously, that it had arrived at the design for Windows 8 before the iPad arrived. This claim was most recently repeated by new Windows chief Julie Larson-Green, a disciple of previous Windows chief Steven Sinofsky, the man most personally responsible for all that is both right and wrong with Windows 8. “We started planning Windows 8 in June of 2009, before we shipped Windows 7, and the iPad was only a rumor at that point,” she told MIT Technology Review recently. “I only saw the iPad after we had this design ready to go.” I was told a similar tale by the credible Jensen Harris, who helped design Windows 8.

... Almost sounds like an admonishment, telling them to shut their yaps before their habitual need to lie gets them into trouble. That crazy meme they are pushing ( Metro precedes the iPad ) will not fly in this day and age of instant and permanent communication.

That 3rd link also gives us a taste of the mindset of those that are threatened by the slightest criticism of their little playskool OS ...

Paul, lighten up. I am worried for you. It seems that you are personally responsible for many of those thousand cuts. You have become like the boyfriend locked out of his girlfriend's house after she has had enough of the beating and changed her locks. You have become embittered and unhinged and it shows. You are abusing the preeminent position you built up over the years by displaying good judgment, and seem hell-bent on destroying your own reputation. Please stop these rants before it's too late.

Actually it is you MicroZombie who is unhinged. And you are unhinged at the most minor of criticisms by a life-long Microsoft shill. You are a perfect representative of the hordes of enablers that have ruined Windows, Microsoft itself, and other companies with their own ruined products. The ability to listen to criticism ( not a chance ) and learn from it ( impossible ) is your problem. Enjoy this fail, you have earned it. Lots of us are going to have fun rubbing your noses into it.

EDIT: next installment is now up: Fixing Windows 8, Part 3: Start Screen

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arrogant Uber-Fanboy ... I understand the desire for this, but I disagree. The future is Metro, both on traditional machines and desktop.

Right. :thumbup

So, in the future, i.e. WHEN (after it will be profoundly modified in such ways that) it will actually work, we will use the NCI (hoping that in the meantime the geniuses will come out at least with a name for it :whistle: ).

NOW, it's the present, and we are going to use what we see fit NOW (the desktop).

jaclaz

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure, it was additionally before the iPad RELEASE:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPad

The first iPad was released on April 3, 2010

but I doubt that the good Apple guys managed to get the idea on the 22 January 2010 and released a finished product (including BOTH hardware and software) in the millions in two an and a half months :whistle: .

Specifically the iPad has been one of the most talked about before release products in the history of electronic devices:

http://billpetro.com/history-of-the-iPad

This is from September 2009:

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/backstage/comments/ten-new-details-on-the-apple-tablet/

three months later at MS they tested a Windows NT OS on a touch screen device, I mean WOW, original idea, they forecasted that their competitors already had ready for the market a kick a** device and did some tests about possibly doing the same? (and then it took them almost two years to actually release a product)

Prototypes and tests should be compared to prototypes and to tests, as well released products should be compared to released products.

jaclaz

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Edited by MagicAndre1981
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LMAO One of the best reviews and explanations of the problems with Win 8 I've ever seen!

Cheers and Regards

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember that article. Leaving aside the oxymoron in that article title: Photo EXIF evidence points to Windows on ARM before iPad release ( oh yeah, I would bet the farm on those EXIF bytes in an image file surviving the endless assault of harmless photo viewers ), but I still think the same now as I did then and that is: so what's the point? ( not directed at you Rick but at MicroZombies like those in the article that think Metro and Windows 8 is in some way new and thus the feel they must herald this news far and wide ).

Anyhow, "Windows" has been on other platforms for ages ( ARM, Alpha, MIPs, PowerPC, Itanium etc ) in its various flavors and families ( NT, CE, Pocket, Mobile ). I mean WP itself is obviously ARM and has been around for a few years. All that hype of WoA was ridiculous. "Hey, we've started something, Windows on ARM!" Really? From what I remember it was on ARM during the Windows 95 era. I guess I just don't get the point of this meme with these Microsoft people like Julie making this iPad comparison ( I also don't get them calling it "Windows" in these ports either, but that's for another discussion). They're like little children: "Look what I did mommy!". It's as if the world has gone crazy.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like that. Nicely done. Although heads on pikes would be the more traditional punishment rather than ID badges ( more effective too ).

If I am reading this right, it was posted on YouTube just 3 days ago and it already has 67,746 views and get this, 1,059 Comments. Wow. Looks obvious that the astroturf brigade is out in force.

Anyone know what he used for the animation? A newer version of Powerpoint 2010 or 2013 maybe?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very well done, this demonstration. Best critique I've seen of the Win8 experience.

That weird thing about the Control Panel showing up under Desktop in Explorer, also happens in XP, Vista, and 7 -- I just checked. It's just that we never had any reason to go looking for the Control Panel because up till now it was so easy to get to it via that hokey, obsolete, old-fashioned Start Menu.

Check out the same guy's follow-up video that comes up as a choice when this one ends. It's even more frustrating: by the time the video ended, I too wanted to throw the stupid Win8 laptop out the window! See how Metro apps seem to randomly pop back in and totally take over the guy's screen while he's trying to do something else. :angrym:

--JorgeA

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very well done, this demonstration. Best critique I've seen of the Win8 experience.

best indeed, if he'd gone more into detail of metro crappyness it would've been better

the ending also shows how worse things have become of PC industry

in past you could buy PC with free dos (atleast in my country)

these days you can't, all win 8 crap is pre-installed and forced on

so basically who ever buys PC, has to pay for win 8 licence, and then if available NEW licence for another Win OS to downgrade

I just hope MS gets blown in the face this time, much more than with vista fiasco

they don't deserve to get money with this kind of "product"

Edited by vinifera
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Windows 8 sales are still [insert your own negative word here] ( NeoWin 2012-12-24 )

There are two reasons why Windows 8 might not be selling well:

  1. PC sales are on the decline, with tablet sales on the increase
  2. Windows 8 is a very new experience from a user interface perspective

Well it's not Microsoft's fault all the consumer wanted, when they walked into the store, was a tablet.

See, here's the thing. This is Microsoft''s fault. Here's why ... Knowing that the PC desktop ( and laptop perhaps ) market is saturated ( it took 30 years to get here ), and knowing that sales are flat at least for a while, what you DO NOT do is to give the customer a reason not to buy a computer.

It is simple. When the market is shaky because of the fad or trend of smaller devices *and* you are in an extremely bad economy ( that's two clear strikes that even Stevie Wonder Ballmer should be able to see ) you do not take a third strike by voluntarily attacking Windows itself with the most controversial and regressive step back we have yet seen. It was suicide from the beginning, we have said as much a thousand comments ago.

I cannot bring myself to feel any pity for them now. They deserve the breadth of this epic fail. In fact, it is necessary to guarantee the future of the x86 universe and also to prevent the devolution of Microsoft into MicroApple.

BTW, that is the article title as it appears. It of course upsets the mSheep ...

Random MicroZombie ... you are pretty low to title this article like that. Pretty low; scumbag low. You would be journalist. That isn't professionalism at all.

Ooooh, someone is butt-hurt. Children, you gotta love 'em.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably not what Mr. Ballmer expected from Consumer Report:

http://news.consumerreports.org/electronics/2012/12/why-you-might-want-to-stick-with-windows-7-for-now.html

You might be better off getting a Windows 7 computer for now, waiting for the dust to settle, and upgrading to Windows 8 later.

For NO apparent reason:

win-8-weihnacht.jpg

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very well done, this demonstration. Best critique I've seen of the Win8 experience.

best indeed, if he'd gone more into detail of metro crappyness it would've been better

the ending also shows how worse things have become of PC industry

in past you could buy PC with free dos (atleast in my country)

these days you can't, all win 8 crap is pre-installed and forced on

so basically who ever buys PC, has to pay for win 8 licence, and then if available NEW licence for another Win OS to downgrade

I just hope MS gets blown in the face this time, much more than with vista fiasco

they don't deserve to get money with this kind of "product"

Time will tell, although early indicators for a Win8 fail are encouraging. ;)

Regarding Metro crappiness. does this video by the same guy do the trick:

This is the one where I said I was ready to throw the laptop out the window, even though it wasn't even my laptop, but only a video!

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.