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Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions


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#2901
JorgeA

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SCOOP! :w00t:
We always had a charms bar.

LOL

BTW, in the image you attached -- that row of icon thingies I see running across near the top of the Opera window, are they browser tabs?

--JorgeA


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#2902
jaclaz

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BTW, in the image you attached -- that row of icon thingies I see running across near the top of the Opera window, are they browser tabs?

Sure. B)

About the senseless thread on neowin, it contains at least an interesting reference to this:
http://www.guardian....talled-base-58m

Windows 8: forget 100m licences 'sold', here's how many PCs are running it

Microsoft's announcement that 100m Windows 8 licences have been 'sold' disguises how many PCs are actually running it. The answer: a lot less than that suggests

....



which confirms substantially :yes: the calculations I made here:
http://www.msfn.org/...67#entry1038767
which - BTW as expected - were largely in favour of MS.
The article additionally adds an aspect I completely missed originally, the number of people "forced" to buy a Windows 8 License but that downgrade "instantly" to 7, which would nicely contribute to explain the increase in Windows 7 usage. :thumbup

jaclaz

#2903
Formfiller

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http://www.bbc.co.uk...nology-22507935

According to market research firm IDC, shipments of Nokia smartphones fell from 11.9 million devices in the first three months of 2012 to 6.4 million units during the January-to-March period in 2013 - a 46% drop.

Neowin:

http://www.neowin.ne...till-far-behind

Windows Phone doubles global marketshare, but still far behind

OK, two different analysts (IDC on BBC versus Gardner on Neowin), but still...

Of course, for the metrotards, the more positive news on Neowin are STILL BIASED!

more shenanigans from gartner as usual(anyone remember last quarter they had mac sales up 15% which was total BS since mac sales actually dropped)

nokia sold 5.6 million lumias,as was reported during their earnings, yet gartner decides to throw out facts and use some number instead (5.1 million) they came up with using some obscure methods.

(says so here about 5.1 millions http://in.reuters.co...E94D05V20130514)

and why give apple an extra million iphones when their iphone sales were reported in the quarter as 37.4 million and not 38.3 million.

that's a discrepancy of 1.6 million right there, which is close to 1% marketshare.


http://www.neowin.ne...comment-2198367

Edited by Formfiller, 14 May 2013 - 10:29 AM.


#2904
JorgeA

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BTW, in the image you attached -- that row of icon thingies I see running across near the top of the Opera window, are they browser tabs?

Sure. B)

Wow, that's a LOT of tabs open!


About the senseless thread on neowin, it contains at least an interesting reference to this:
http://www.guardian....talled-base-58m

That analysis was pretty devastating, thanks for linking to it.

And yes, it does corroborate your own earlier analysis. :yes:

An interesting report in the comments section:

Using website visit stats is a bit unfair as it will underbake W8 share - I upgraded to W8 6 months ago & it's so awful I've not used my laptop for approx 5 months. Can't imagine I'm the only one, so this should bump the numbers up a bit

Wonder how many people are on that same boat. Maybe not stopped using their Win8 machine completely, but deterred from playing with the new toy by Win8's annoyances.

--JorgeA

#2905
MagicAndre1981

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ok, Blue will be released as 8.1 later this year via the Windows Store and it will be free for all Win8 users.

The preview will be released on 26th June:

We will also be making a public preview of Windows 8.1 available starting on June 26, timed with the Build developer conference in San Francisco. The preview will be available for Windows 8 and Windows RT.


http://blogs.windows...ing-better.aspx
Posted Image

#2906
JorgeA

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A brief exchange about Metro apps between Mary Jo Foley and Paul Thurrott in Windows Weekly 301. Start at 16:50:

MJF: We're in a very sad place on Metro-style versions of Twitter client for Windows 8 and Windows RT. We're waiting for Twitter to do theirs and they still haven't...

PT: I try to go back and forth and try things, but I don't know, I just don't like the UI's of a lot of these things.

MJF: Me too.

Gosh, do you think that the UI problem could be with the very concept of Metro itself?? :angel

--JorgeA

#2907
ciHnoN

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This will make you lol...

Windows 8 - The built-in moronic pop-up called "Charms bar"

http://www.foolsdesi...ic.php?f=1&t=89

Hey ciHnoN,

When I click on the link above, I very briefly see the forum site, but then right away it switches to a small image of a clown or joker in the upper left corner of the browser window -- nothing else at all to see. :huh:

I tried going in directly by typing the URL, and the same thing happened. :unsure:

MSIE 8. Works fine in FF 16, though.

--JorgeA

P.S. Now that I got to see what you put in there, here's a thought. Wasn't Windows redesigned in 8 supposedly "to get the OS out of the way"? Well, the Charms totally wreck that notion. They remind you constantly of the OS, and in the most annoying, distracting manner possible. Only thing that could beat it in this category is... <drum roll> ... the Start Screen, which takes over the WHOLE monitor. At least the Start Screen only takes over when you tell it to, but then when it does, it takes over everything.


IE 8.x? *lol* , update your browser. ;)


Indeed, they are SUPER SUPER SUPER annoying. I see it several hundred times a month!!!


He who laughs has not yet heard the bad news.

#2908
JorgeA

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IE 8.x? *lol* , update your browser. ;)

I've hung on to IE8 on my Vista system for a couple of reasons, an informational one and an esthetic one. The informational reason is that IE8 but not IE9 gives me useful little tidbits of information along the bottom that change as I enter and leave different websites; they're always in plain view and I don't have to go looking for the notifications. I can get some of these visible bits back using Classic Shell (thanks Ivo and @xpclient :thumbup ), but not all of them.

The esthetic reason is that I much prefer the look of the Forward and Back buttons in IE8 over those in IE9, which have lost the permanent shiny, 3D effect. (Presaging what Microsoft was getting ready to do to Windows itself.) In IE8, the Menu bar at the top is separated from the other toolbars by a thin line, while in IE9 the toolbars are all one undifferentiated sea of blue. (In IE7 all the toolbar rows are separated by lines, with the Menu bar divider even sporting an indented 3D "groove" appearance.)

IE8 already represented a regression towards Windows 2.x flatness from IE7, where the toolbar rows all had 3D shading similar to the Vista Taskbar. IE9 eliminates even the vestiges of this 3D effect; browser tabs are the only elements that retain any depth.

Hope I've explained my position well enough! :)

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 14 May 2013 - 05:03 PM.


#2909
sparkles

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...popping out from nowhere apps/tools.


This guy calls them "goblin farts."

#2910
ciHnoN

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IE 8.x? *lol* , update your browser. ;)

I've hung on to IE8 on my Vista system for a couple of reasons, an informational one and an esthetic one. The informational reason is that IE8 but not IE9 gives me useful little tidbits of information along the bottom that change as I enter and leave different websites; they're always in plain view and I don't have to go looking for the notifications. I can get some of these visible bits back using Classic Shell (thanks Ivo and @xpclient :thumbup ), but not all of them.

The esthetic reason is that I much prefer the look of the Forward and Back buttons in IE8 over those in IE9, which have lost the permanent shiny, 3D effect. (Presaging what Microsoft was getting ready to do to Windows itself.) In IE8, the Menu bar at the top is separated from the other toolbars by a thin line, while in IE9 the toolbars are all one undifferentiated sea of blue. (In IE7 all the toolbar rows are separated by lines, with the Menu bar divider even sporting an indented 3D "groove" appearance.)

IE8 already represented a regression towards Windows 2.x flatness from IE7, where the toolbar rows all had 3D shading similar to the Vista Taskbar. IE9 eliminates even the vestiges of this 3D effect; browser tabs are the only elements that retain any depth.

Hope I've explained my position well enough! :)

--JorgeA


I understand the reason but I still think you are doing a wrong thing. It was people like you in corporations and everywhere who stuck to IE 6.x and we had the famous IE 6 hell all over the web. You are now doing it with IE 8 and complaining that sites are not working with this old old old browser. Which would make people start using special tags and such to make things work in IE 8 which would make history repeat itself, this time with IE 8.


There is absolutely no reason you should stick inside an old browser. I recommend you switch browser and use skinning technology to make it look the way you like because IE can't be skinned. I heard maxthon browser uses IE and can be skinned too ( I think ).

If you feel like using IE 6... or IE 8, it is fine... but you should not complain in public that modern websites does not work in it. After all, it is your choice to stick with an old browser and old technology.

Please bear in mind that I am specificially talking about web technology here. That is why in general Internet Explorer is a bad browser because it alters its looks on each release without the ability to use skinning technology. This behavious, which of course is completely foolish is due to the fact that there are only fools working at Microsoft. They do not have an understanding that people like different looks and colors, hence they do not offer skinning or customization to make it look like the older version when they update their browser.

Your behaviour is caused by foolishness of fools in Microsoft.

I actually see IE as not a browser but just a "thing" Microsoft "has" to have just because of the Internet and they are politically using IE to make people buy new versions of Windows.

My recommendation is that people do NOT use IE at all, let it die a hard death and let Microsoft learn it the heard way.

Anyway, as I mentioned, you could use other browsers and use skinning to make it exactly look like IE 8 but please, don't complain that certain sites do not work if you are using old browsers like IE 6 or IE 8. The web evolves.


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#2911
ciHnoN

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http://www.neowin.ne...81-will-be-free 8.1 will be free and ... drum roll... it will be downloaded from the Windows Store... and not Windows Update???? (I think)... in that case... WTF? ...and where is my aero glass?!

:ph34r:

Edited by Tripredacus, 15 May 2013 - 08:50 AM.
7.a

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#2912
jaclaz

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http://www.neowin.ne...81-will-be-free 8.1 will be free and ... drum roll... it will be downloaded from the Windows Store... and not Windows Update???? (I think)... in that case... WTF? ...and where is my aero glass?!

To be picky ;) Tamy Reller seemingly said that it will "come from the Windows Store", and already at least two people on that thread protested about the fact that there is NO windows Store in the neighbourhood and that they have to drive to the Windwos Store to get the update:

There are no Windows Stores where I live. I hope other options to get this are available.

No download from the official Microsoft Update site? You mean I have to drive to a Windows Store to get this update? Just one more reason to avoid Windows-8--most especially for us laptop and desktop users.



Now, questions are::
  • In which place a driving license is issued to 6 years old? :ph34r:
  • Cannot they ask their mom or dad to have the 8.1 update for Christmas? (assuming that they are already grown up enough to not believing in SantaClaus anymore ) :unsure:

jaclaz

#2913
ciHnoN

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Wait, I was assuming it would come from the DIGITAL Windows Store inside Windows and not from Windows Update. Are they suggesting it will come only to PHYSICAL Windows Store?! That is worse than I thought! *LOL*
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#2914
CharlotteTheHarlot

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To be picky ;) Tamy Reller seemingly said that it will "come from the Windows Store", and already at least two people on that thread protested about the fact that there is NO windows Store in the neighbourhood and that they have to drive to the Windwos Store to get the update:

At first I thought they were having a go at the NeoWhiners over the typical confusing blend of terminology - Windows Store and Microsoft Store, one is a tile on Metro ( and the gateway to walled garden ) and the other is brick and mortar.

But maybe I was wrong and they were really just confused. :lol:

Either way, it's bad for Microsoft. Training a bunch of tile monkeys that cannot figure it out is just as bad as re-using naming and terms causing confusion that jokesters will exploit.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#2915
jaclaz

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Well, the issue is that on this the good guys at MS cannot really copy anything from the guys @Apple.
I mean, Apple has:
Apple Store <- physical store, (retail outlet)
Apple Store <- place on the 'net from which you can download -mainly - apps

So, on the "other side", there could be:
Windows Store <- physical store, (retail outlet)
Windows Store <- place on the 'net from which you can download - mainly - hot air ;)

AND that would cause a trademark issue not completely unlike the Metro one :ph34r: :
http://en.wikipedia....iki/WIND_(Italy)

jaclaz

#2916
CharlotteTheHarlot

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More articles about the Windows 8 Blew announcement mentioned above by MagicAndre1981.

Confirmed: Windows 8.1 is Windows Blue, free upgrade due later this year ( TechSpot 2013-05-14 )

Microsoft: Windows Blue to be named Windows 8.1, will be free ( NeoWin 2013-05-14 )

Microsoft: Windows 8.1 is an update, not a service pack ( NeoWin 2013-05-14 )

Windows 8.1, formerly known as Windows Blue, will be a free update ( PC Gamer 2013-05-14 )

Microsoft: YES! You can have your desktop back again for FREE! ( UK Register 2013-05-14 )

In the comments there are so many arguments and debates over terminology! is it a service pack? Is it an update? Do tile-pressing MetroTards even need to know the difference? No.

But ... this time Microsoft has chosen once again to be different just for the sake of change. They are apparently officially incrementing the kernel version ( ya, like they are doing work there that merits this ). From earlier speculation ...

Well, why call it W8 anyway?

Maybe we should just call them by their real names which might reset expectations accordingly ...

Real Name ---- Marketing
Windows 5.0 ... Windows 2000
Windows 5.1 ... Windows XP
Windows 5.2 ... Windows XP-64
Windows 6.0 ... Windows Vista
Windows 6.1 ... Windows 7
Windows 6.2 ... Windows 8 ... or even better: ... W8 for 9 ... W849!
:yes: (patent pending)

Perhaps Microsoft is merely performing some rudimentary arithmetic ...

Windows 6.1 ... 6 + 1 = 7
Windows 6.2 ... 6 + 2 = 8


.. for those customers that require things simple and easy? :whistle:

Now with our updated information ...

Windows 6.1 ... 6 + 1.0 = 7
Windows 6.2 ... 6 + 2.0 = 8
Windows 6.3 ... 6 + 2.1 = 8.1
... ( they added Windows 2.1 to Vista! :lol: )

Therefore ... Vista + Windows 2.1 = Windows 8 Blew Posted Image

Of course, any sensible person would have pressed for ...

Windows 6.2.1 ... or ... 6.21

It's all kind of a moot point since they botched it all up with the "Windows 7" marketing term. I mean, I understand that Vista got a point update to 6.0 from 5.x, but the marketing nonsense of "Windows 7" is ridiculous. I think it demonstrates the siege mentality that Microsoft began not long after Vista and they believed that they could just wish the fail away using marketing nonsense. However, dropping sensible use of numbers by a software company that is supposed to respect numbers is a very bad sign. Any Softies that still care at all about Microsoft should do some research into what happened at that point in time, by those in management that green-lit this break in tradition and common sense. It is clearly when things went right off the rails, apparently forever.

So officially, what we got here is a point update ( 6.2 to 6.3 ) which ironically mirrors the Vista to 7 ( 6.0 to 6.1 ) which was the big "fix" to shut everybody up about the Vista fiasco. "Hey we listened!"

Hey, it's either that, or in addition to their certifiable Apple-envy and Google-envy they have perhaps developed a case of Firefox-envy and have thrown the version conventions to the four winds forever.

So barring any last minute changes, our table of consumer releases looks like this now ...

Real Name ---- Marketing
Windows 5.0 ... Windows 2000
Windows 5.1 ... Windows XP
Windows 5.2 ... Windows XP-64
Windows 6.0 ... Windows Vista
Windows 6.1 ... Windows 7
Windows 6.2 ... Windows 8
Windows 6.3 ... Windows 8 Blew


So we can pretty much add this normally simple task of naming the freaking operating system, to the growing list of Microsoft FUBAR decisions. No-one can possibly justify bumping the kernel as a point upgrade knowing what we know today. Lipstick-on-a-pig release.

P.S. but I will point out that it apparently will be free, so that is a surprisingly sensible decision. They dodged a bullet for once.

EDIT: added article

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 15 May 2013 - 07:57 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#2917
JorgeA

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Now, questions are::

  • In which place a driving license is issued to 6 years old? :ph34r:
  • Cannot they ask their mom or dad to have the 8.1 update for Christmas? (assuming that they are already grown up enough to not believing in SantaClaus anymore ) :unsure:

Wait a minute -- you mean to say that there is no Santa Claus?????? Oooohhhh, nooooo!!! :o :(

--JorgeA

#2918
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Dell cuts price of Windows RT XPS 10 tablet to $300 ( NeoWin 2013-05-15 )

The price is just about right - for 6 months ago. :lol: Actually if it was maybe $250 and that was Surface RT it would be competitive. The Dell should probably be closer to $199 to compete now. But hey, this is still the ReTard Edition, so who really wants it anyway?


Windows Phone doubles global marketshare, but still far behind ( NeoWin 2013-05-14 )

Wait what? Read that lying headline again and look at the actual charts here ...

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image
( source here )


Math is supposed to be easy in the age of computers! Table-3 has all Microsoft at 2.9% ( :lol: ) which is up from 1.9% one year ago. Jeez. Ironically it is still behind Blackberry ( :lol: ) too. Ouch. Note: Gartner is not clear if that "1Q13 Market Share (%)" is total cumulative or merely for that quarter. Presumably that is current total marketshare ( in their estimation ).

If I were in the phone division I would really be ticked off. First they kill off the previous platform, then Sinofsky Windows div steal the interface and all their marketing money, and finally force it onto all computers generating astounding amounts of anger against Metro and now the platform is teetering on the brink of oblivion. Ironically, this is the worst possible thing that could have happened because this platform is where it belonged all the time.


EDIT: typo

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 26 May 2013 - 09:38 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#2919
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Well, the issue is that on this the good guys at MS cannot really copy anything from the guys @Apple.
I mean, Apple has:
Apple Store <- physical store, (retail outlet)
Apple Store <- place on the 'net from which you can download -mainly - apps

So, on the "other side", there could be:
Windows Store <- physical store, (retail outlet)
Windows Store <- place on the 'net from which you can download - mainly - hot air ;)

AND that would cause a trademark issue not completely unlike the Metro one :ph34r: :
http://en.wikipedia....iki/WIND_(Italy)

jaclaz

Posted Image Well done!

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#2920
ciHnoN

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A free turd is still a turd. :)

Unless they have brought back Aero Glass, it will remain a turd no matter what.

YES, I LIKE SHINY PEBBLES.

Posted Image


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#2921
JorgeA

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Anyway, as I mentioned, you could use other browsers and use skinning to make it exactly look like IE 8 but please, don't complain that certain sites do not work if you are using old browsers like IE 6 or IE 8.

Just to be clear on this point: I wasn't complaining, I was reporting behavior that looked strange to me. If the result I got with the browser that I'm using is actually an expected result, then so be it.

--JorgeA

#2922
ciHnoN

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Anyway, as I mentioned, you could use other browsers and use skinning to make it exactly look like IE 8 but please, don't complain that certain sites do not work if you are using old browsers like IE 6 or IE 8.

Just to be clear on this point: I wasn't complaining, I was reporting behavior that looked strange to me. If the result I got with the browser that I'm using is actually an expected result, then so be it.

--JorgeA


A funny side note, out of thousands of unique visitors, only 32 is using IE8 and 2 using IE6 and 7 using IE7. *lol*


Average visit duration is 6.45 minutes which is rather high. :D

Edited by ciHnoN, 15 May 2013 - 07:35 AM.

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#2923
JorgeA

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So, on the "other side", there could be:
Windows Store <- physical store, (retail outlet)
Windows Store <- place on the 'net from which you can download - mainly - hot air ;)

LOL

--JorgeA

#2924
JorgeA

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ok, Blue will be released as 8.1 later this year via the Windows Store and it will be free for all Win8 users.

The preview will be released on 26th June:


We will also be making a public preview of Windows 8.1 available starting on June 26, timed with the Build developer conference in San Francisco. The preview will be available for Windows 8 and Windows RT.


http://blogs.windows...ing-better.aspx

Thanks, Andre.

I'm curious to see what 8.1 actually contains, out of all the things people have speculated that it will include.

--JorgeA

#2925
JorgeA

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...popping out from nowhere apps/tools.


This guy calls them "goblin farts."

Oh yeah, that was a great video! Well worth seeing again. :thumbup

--JorgeA




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