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Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions


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#3251
Tripredacus

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Does anybody have inside or other additional info on this quote? It starts almost exactly 8 minutes into episode 39 of This Week in Enterprise Tech, during a discussion of Windows 8.1. (Host: Fr. Robert Ballecer. Guest: Brian Chee.)

RB: Cheever, let me toss over to you here. You've been playing with Windows 8 quite a bit, and you've played with the Metro interface. You've played with the new Desktop interface. Do you think that this is enough -- just simply adding a Start Button to Windows 8, does that entice enough people into thinking, "Well, it's close enough to Windows 7 that I can now use them interchangeably"?

BC: No, no, not quite. I go back two years when the Reviewers' Workshop happened and we started learning about Windows 8 for the first time, and we all got very excited because they're promising us the ability that when we did the install, that we could choose Desktop only, or we could choose Desktop with Metro -- or we could choose Command Line only, meaning kernel only, which was very very exciting, especially for the OEMs, especially for the people that wanted to put their own GUIs on there for custom kiosks, custom instruments. Could you imagine a kernel as stable as Windows 8 finally being able to stabilize some medical equipment, or gas pumps, or kiosks -- you know, how may kiosks have you gone to that had the Blue Screen of Death on it? <laughter>

[emphasis added]

That would be quite a revelation, that early on Microsoft was promising that you could install Windows 8 without Metro. Breaking that promise can only have contributed to the anger and disappointment that has met the version of Windows 8 that eventually got released.

Agreed. It sounds like the OEMs were led down a primrose path and believed the next Windows would not cause upheaval, but quite the contrary, be the proverbial shot in the arm. I'm not sure what conference he is talking about, it might be a workshop at //build/ 2011 which is also around the first time I remember hearing about this disaster, it was summer 2011 ...


Microsoft has never really made concessions to OEMs regarding the desktop OSes. All that stuff about custom appliances and GUIs are always licensed under the Embedded side of things and would have nothing to do with the run of the mill Windows. I don't even know what Windows 8 Embedded can do, no one wants regular Windows 8 enough to have that kind of demand. And when you want to say "yeah but the touch support" and that's just that Start Screen. ISVs would be in the same spot as if they were using Windows 7 Embedded since they still have to write their own software because they won't be using Modern apps or the Start Screen for their custom software right?

Anyways, that discussion must have been from early on as obviously it sounds more like how Server 2012 operates.

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#3252
JorgeA

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That would be quite a revelation, that early on Microsoft was promising that you could install Windows 8 without Metro. Breaking that promise can only have contributed to the anger and disappointment that has met the version of Windows 8 that eventually got released.

Agreed. It sounds like the OEMs were led down a primrose path and believed the next Windows would not cause upheaval, but quite the contrary, be the proverbial shot in the arm. I'm not sure what conference he is talking about, it might be a workshop at //build/ 2011 which is also around the first time I remember hearing about this disaster, it was summer 2011 ...

I made my own transcript and posted it. I couldn't make out exactly what workshop he was talking about -- sounded like "reviewers workshop" to me, but it could have been "previewers."


Posted Image
( Source: EnGadget )

That last picture is from CES ( Consumer Electronics Show ) and if you look closely it is a Windows 8 build 6.2.something. It is obviously the desktop and the sharp corners are already there.

Yes, that looks like it says version 6.2.7067. And notice the Start Button at the left end of the Taskbar. If it was at CES, it must have been in January 2011.

Thanks a bunch for the background info, BTW.

--JorgeA

#3253
JorgeA

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FYI:

Microsoft unloading Surface RT units at $199, offering schools major discount

It’s fair to say that Microsoft’s Surface didn’t get the reception the company was hoping for. The tablet debuted last October and tanked shortly thereafter, thanks to an overly ambitious price point, poor software selection, and the myriad issues surrounding Windows 8. In late May, Microsoft put the tablet on sale at its own TechEd conference, with Surface going for $100 and Surface Pro for $399. Now, Redmond is extending a significant discount program to educational institutions.

As for the reason MS may be dumping Surface RT stock now, that’s not hard to guess. Either the company is going to pivot away from ARM altogether, or it’ll take another crack at introducing an RT tablet...

Total sales of Surface were estimated in March at one million units for Surface RT (which launched in October, 2012) and 400,000 Surface Pros, which had only launched in February. That’s not a terrible figure in absolute terms, but Microsoft apparently shot for the moon and ordered more than three million of the Surface RT. That leaves the company with a disagreeable amount of inventory, which won’t be worth much at all once it announces a new version (or kills off the old).


--JorgeA

#3254
Formfiller

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From the Channel9 Xbone thread, a fanboy weighs in:

http://channel9.msdn...3e7a1e20107ed4e

Meh.

I keep hearing this thrown about, but the reality is that games cost what they cost.

From the publisher's point of view, they just need to make their money. I haven't seen a contract, but I'd bet that if they could sell 1 copy for $60 million it would be the same as them selling 1 million copies for $60.

From the gamers point of view, if the game provides 20 hours of entertainment, it's costing you $3 an hour. Online games (a la Battlefield, Quake, Halo) do even better.

So I just can't begrudge the gaming companies wanting to charge for the game again. For far too long, computer entertainment consumers have had this "Gimme all of it for free" mentality and it's counterproductive.

Frankly, it's why a vast majority of games suck.


The vast majority of games suck because they can't extract more money? Games before the DRM lockdown were on average better than today's extravaganza, so that reason is nilly. These shills and fanboys are very tiring, they stop at no lie and have to qualms to make "arguments" out of thin air.

#3255
HalloweenDocument12

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Total sales of Surface were estimated in March at one million units for Surface RT (which launched in October, 2012) and 400,000 Surface Pros, which had only launched in February. That’s not a terrible figure in absolute terms


Something that doesn't seem to have clicked yet with tech journalism is that selling one million units no longer makes the item mass market. Once upon a time, back in the 80s, selling a million of a device meant that "everyone had one", at least to the extent one could realistically consider the market. But now a million is niche. Wii-U has sold over 3.5 million units and the Vita over 2.5 and both are considered niche. These days, a vendor needs to sell literally an order of magnitude more to be considered at the same level as a few decades ago. 5 million is the new 500 thousand.

Edited by HalloweenDocument12, 19 June 2013 - 10:25 AM.


#3256
Aero7x64

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Stop asking only Aero Glass back we need full Windows Aero back. Aero is more than just glassy borders. Windows 8.1 will remove also Aero animations (flying windows when minimizing and maximizing) in favor of animations that are more traditional and in line with Modern UI style (uglier). I have tried all leaked Windows 8.1 builds and none have restored Aero animations at this point. Also progress bars in Windows 8 are uglier than those in Windows 7. And when you start Windows 8 there are only little white spinning circles (more in line with Modern UI style) and not animated Windows flag like in Windows 7. During installation in Windows 7 there is cool Aeroish orange-yellow installation bar but not in Windows 8. Even installation is little uglier. Also when example you plug in USB flash drive checkbox is uglier (more in line with Modern UI) than in Windows 7. And Aero Peak and Aero Snap no longer have cool glass effect. Taskbar live thumbnails for example are still here but how long? And Aero Peak and Aero Snap might be even more in line with Modern UI (uglier) in future. I have bad feeling that Microsoft will not stop before whole Aero is gone if they don't suffer enough lost of money. Microsoft likely will understand eventually in time of Windows 9 and give Aero back if they suffer enough lost of money because unpopularity of Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 but point is we need whole Aero not just Aero Glass.


http://wyday.com/win...7-progress-bar/


http://4.bp.blogspot...lation Runs.png (Windows 8 uglier progress bar)


http://www.howtogeek...-can-still-use/

Take at look at the article and check how much of Aero is still left. Windows 8.1 will remove those Aero animations as it seems. And hardware acceleration alone example without other Aero parts wouldn't be even Aero.

Edited by Aero7x64, 19 June 2013 - 11:12 AM.

pbb0R8v.png

#3257
jaclaz

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Re: Windows RT
Not really news:
http://bgr.com/2013/...iticism-362860/
http://bgr.com/2013/...ws-rt-analysis/

Almost news:
http://bgr.com/2013/...nsing-fees-cut/

Microsoft’s struggles to make inroads in the tablet market with Windows RT are well documented, but the company still seems to think it can make lemonade out of what has been described as a very large lemon. Unnamed sources tell Bloomberg that Microsoft plans to cut licensing fees for Windows RT in an effort to boost interest in the platform and cut into iOS and Android’s dominant share of the tablet market.


So the amount of (less) money is seemingly not only connected to just the device poor sales but also to the OS itself being licensed to less OEM machines or for a lower price... :angel

jaclaz

#3258
JorgeA

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Stop asking only Aero Glass back we need full Windows Aero back. Aero is more than just glassy borders. Windows 8.1 will remove also Aero animations (flying windows when minimizing and maximizing) in favor of animations that are more traditional and in line with Modern UI style (uglier). I have tried all leaked Windows 8.1 builds and none have restored Aero animations at this point. Also progress bars in Windows 8 are uglier than those in Windows 7. And when you start Windows 8 there are only little white spinning circles (more in line with Modern UI style) and not animated Windows flag like in Windows 7. During installation in Windows 7 there is cool Aeroish orange-yellow installation bar but not in Windows 8. Even installation is little uglier. Also when example you plug in USB flash drive checkbox is uglier (more in line with Modern UI) than in Windows 7. And Aero Peak and Aero Snap no longer have cool glass effect. Taskbar live thumbnails for example are still here but how long? And Aero Peak and Aero Snap might be even more in line with Modern UI (uglier) in future. I have bad feeling that Microsoft will not stop before whole Aero is gone if they don't suffer enough lost of money. Microsoft likely will understand eventually in time of Windows 9 and give Aero back if they suffer enough lost of money because unpopularity of Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 but point is we need whole Aero not just Aero Glass.


http://wyday.com/win...7-progress-bar/


http://4.bp.blogspot...lation Runs.png (Windows 8 uglier progress bar)


http://www.howtogeek...-can-still-use/

Take at look at the article and check how much of Aero is still left. Windows 8.1 will remove those Aero animations as it seems. And hardware acceleration alone example without other Aero parts wouldn't be even Aero.

Thanks for the links, and welcome!

Good point about keeping all of Aero and not just the Glass part. I guess we had focused on that because it's one of the most visible aspects during normal work, but you're right: Microsoft seems bent on eliminating most of the esthetic aspects of Aero, and I wouldn't be surprised if they intended to get rid of it all eventually.

--JorgeA

#3259
JorgeA

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Total sales of Surface were estimated in March at one million units for Surface RT (which launched in October, 2012) and 400,000 Surface Pros, which had only launched in February. That’s not a terrible figure in absolute terms


Something that doesn't seem to have clicked yet with tech journalism is that selling one million units no longer makes the item mass market. Once upon a time, back in the 80s, selling a million of a device meant that "everyone had one", at least to the extent one could realistically consider the market. But now a million is niche. Wii-U has sold over 3.5 million units and the Vita over 2.5 and both are considered niche. These days, a vendor needs to sell literally an order of magnitude more to be considered at the same level as a few decades ago. 5 million is the new 500 thousand.


Ssshhhh -- you're not allowed to point that out!! Didn't anybody tell you that you're supposed to accept all the spin they give you, at face value? ;)

--JorgeA

#3260
Formfiller

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Microsoft caved in!

http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update

An internet connection will not be required to play offline Xbox One games – After a one-time system set-up with a new Xbox One, you can play any disc based game without ever connecting online again. There is no 24 hour connection requirement and you can take your Xbox One anywhere you want and play your games, just like on Xbox 360.

Trade-in, lend, resell, gift, and rent disc based games just like you do today – There will be no limitations to using and sharing games, it will work just as it does today on Xbox 360.


They are able to listen after all!

http://o.canada.com/...m-the-xbox-one/

No more always online requirement
The console no longer has to check in every 24 hours
All game discs will work on Xbox One as they do on Xbox 360
An Internet connection is only required when initially setting up the console
All downloaded games will function the same when online or offline
No additional restrictions on trading games or loaning discs
Region locks have been dropped


While a good move, it also makes me a bit sad - this could only have happened because of the internet outrage. If the darn Windows 8 fanboys didn't try to squelch criticism, maybe Windows 8 wouldn't have been destroyed by Microsoft. On the other hand, the XBone has a true competitor, Windows 8 doesn't.

Edited by Formfiller, 19 June 2013 - 03:17 PM.


#3261
Formfiller

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Hahahahaha, see with that kind of insane arguments they argue now AGAINST the Xbone:

http://channel9.msdn...ackdown?page=12

Just because their "my way or the highway" and lockdown-fetishes were averted for once, they are p***ed and mad.

It's really scary how these fanwhores think. I see some of them even lying about the XBone now, to make it appear worse - claiming that they are forced to deal with discs again. An utter lie, they can go all download if they want.

Truly deranged, as I've said here multiple times: They are clinical masochists. Disappointed if no pain is coming.

#3262
JorgeA

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Hahahahaha, see with that kind of insane arguments they argue now AGAINST the Xbone:

http://channel9.msdn...ackdown?page=12

Just because their "my way or the highway" and lockdown-fetishes were averted for once, they are p***ed and mad.

It's really scary how these fanwhores think. I see some of them even lying about the XBone now, to make it appear worse - claiming that they are forced to deal with discs again. An utter lie, they can go all download if they want.

Amazing -- it's like they're more radically Bolshevik than Lenin himself. :thumbdown

Excellent news about the Xbox One, BTW.

--JorgeA

#3263
HalloweenDocument12

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While a good move, it also makes me a bit sad - this could only have happened because of the internet outrage.


I understand the mixed emotions, but think of the big picture: the Internet is a huge and effective weapon for consumers. This is exactly what is supposed to happen. I still expect Microsoft to be "punished" in that it's far more difficult to gain a customer than it is to lose him, and they have certainly lost many customers as a result of this fiasco. Even the more neutral parties will be pushed into a "wait and see" mode rather than an automatic buy.

Put another way, how much closer to 1984 would we be without the Internet?

#3264
HalloweenDocument12

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Any gamers here? I see from the shills constant references to scratched discs and even claims of shattering. Personally, I've seen shattering only in demonstration videos where a motor spins the disc far faster than any drive on the market does. As for scratches, for me, it's only happened with bad used purchases and a disc or two that I played so much that I didn't bother putting it into a case when taking it out to play something else. Unprotected, of course it developed flaws. If it gets bad enough, I go onto eBay and buy another. By the time the disc becomes unplayable, I can get a used copy for $20 or something. It's a minor inconvenience, but I'd much rather have a free market than some system where I effectively can't buy games. I still mix in stuff from the 80s and 90s and can see myself playing classics for years to come. Similarly, I expect to pick up a few games during the Xbox One's reign that I will be playing long after the system's marketability and the ability to play games absent an online authentication service is important to me.

#3265
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Huawei chairman hints at Nokia acquisition, ditching Windows Phone [Update] ( NeoWin 2013-06-18 )

The commenters are surprisingly calm about this story. Or maybe they are petrified. :lol: Whatever. But it certainly is a very strange thing for a company honcho to be blabbing about. It did send the stock price of Nokia up, and that alone would cause a stir from the SEC if they had some jurisdiction over this Chinese company. Imagine if he ( Huawei chairman ) or his friends held a big block of Nokia shares! This would fall under "Pump and Dump" market manipulation. Anyway, the commenters feel assured that Microsoft would fly in to save the day and buy Nokia first. They certainly have enough cash, but so do others like Google. And Apple at last count has at least twice as much cash on hand. This should be an interesting year for Nokia. I'd guess they have a 50-50 chance of existing into 2014. I imagine the next two to three reporting periods will tell the tale.


Huawei: We Don't Have Any Plans to Buy Nokia ( Tom's Hardware 2013-06-19 )

Report: Microsoft in recent talks to buy Nokia device business ( NeoWin 2013-06-19 )

Wake up, Uncle Fester! Huawei’s nattering about BUYING Nokia. Yes, we mean you, Ballmer ( UK Register 2013-06-20 )

That Microsoft-Nokia merger you've been predicting? It's no go. Redmond has reportedly left the table ( UK Register 2013-06-20 )

This is definitely going to get interesting. :yes: Huawei isn't really a possibility I think, but Microsoft, Google, Apple, and Samsung all really could swoop in and get Nokia. Microsoft supposedly was looking at this but for some reason took a pass ( a commenter says it had to do with offshore money and taxes ). Something else, just how can we be sure that anyone up in Finland besides Elop are actually MicroZealots anyway? There was this article that said ...

In an interview given today, Casey McGee, Microsoft's senior marketing manager for Windows Phone, has stated that Microsoft has a relationship "so close" with Nokia that the Lumia series feels "like our child too."


Ya think? :lol: But that quote is awful condescending, isn't it? So I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft is beginning to get under their skin. Anyway, Nokia really couldn't be more vulnerable than they are right now ...



EDIT: added articles

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 20 June 2013 - 02:20 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#3266
CharlotteTheHarlot

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This is quite a juxtaposition. :yes: Imagine going to the Microsoft app store and finding a download for an alternate theme for Windows Phone that looks like Android! Can you picture it? :no:

Well here in fact is Google's app store showing exactly the inverse and setting a perfect example of how it should be done. A drop-in launcher that simulates the Windows Phone interface. This is real ...

Launcher 8. ( QiHang Dev Team ) ( Google Play 2013-06-20 )

Description
Bored of Android's User Interface? Do you want a new style start screen? If you do, then wait no more! Launcher8 is a great app for you to experience the brand new style UI on your Android mobile phone.You can esay design look like Windows Phone 8 layout (fake wp8)and show off to your friends! If you have any questions, please feedback us! You can submit your advice or visit our BBS


( Go to the link to see screenshots. ) Needless to say, Microsoft has locked down their interface to prevent any kind of useful improvements from users of their pOS, let alone a complete makeover of the GUI itself.

NeoWin covered this app as a story ...

Windows Phone envy? Android Metro-style launcher hits 1m downloads ( NeoWin 2013-06-19 )

The headline is bad enough, now check out the typical MetroTard logic ...

The app is quite popular and has surpassed 1 million downloads with an average rating of 4.5 stars. It’s clear that Android users are at least curious about Windows Phone and wanting to try out the UI before possibly going all-in with a Windows Phone purchase.


( no, there is no smiley there, dude is serious ) Get that wishful thinking? He sees it as a kind of trial and those users installing it as people that might be thinking of leaving Android for WP. :blink: That's his takeaway from the app, NOT the obvious fact that Android is a hugely customizable platform that allows such creativity in the first place. My head is spinning from the role reversal here with Microsoft creating and pushing their so-called "Windows" phone operating system that locks it down cold, while Google is the one that serves up a very open phone OS.

What are the chances that the author will ever realize the reason that WP sits at 3% while Android trounces it at 75% is because Android is the new Windows-style open architecture while WP is the Apple-style locked-down GUI. I agree, no chance he or his fellow MetroTards will ever understand it.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#3267
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Breaking News mentioned above by Formfiller ... First some fanboy sites ...

Microsoft changes stance on used game policy and Internet connection requirements for Xbox One ( NeoWin 2013-06-19 )

Back to reality: Microsoft's new Xbox One policies retreat from the future. Careful what you wish for ( The Verge 2013-06-19 )

Xbox One DRM roll-back kills family game share, digital disc library ( NeoWin 2013-06-19 )

Microsoft Reverses Course on Xbox One Policies. The Xbox team dials back the crazy ( Thurrott 2013-06-19 )

They are not happy. Here are some non-Zealot sites ...

Microsoft Backs Down on Controversial Xbox One Online Requirements, Used Game Disc Trading ( Tom's Hardware 2013-06-19 )

Microsoft backtracks: Drops daily check-ins, used games restrictions on Xbox One ( TechSpot 2013-06-19 )

Microsoft caves on Xbox One DRM and used-game controls. Consumer power might still mean something ( UK Register 2013-06-19 )

Microsoft Abandons Planned Xbox One DRM, Used Games Policies; Won't Budge on Price ( Maximum PC 2013-06-20 )

I guess this may be the first time in a while that Microsoft has done something right. It must mean that pre-sales orders are right in the toilet, not to mention the polls like that one from Amazon. The good thing about it is that there will be some real competition now because Sony will have to really step up their game. Best comments seen so far have renamed it to ... Xbox 180 :lol: Love it!



Microsoft launches revamp of its MSDN forums ( NeoWin 2013-06-19 )

Microsoft has also added a way for forum users to vote for what they think is abusive content in the message boards.


This must be a move to further censor the criticism over Windows 8 and Xbox and other fiascos. Reputation management.I bet. Can't wait for first hand reports from Formfiller who already mentioned disappearing threads and other tricks in the "Answers" forum.



Microsoft accused of extortion in new lawsuit ( NeoWin 2013-06-19 )

The South Florida Business Journal reports that the lawsuit claims the raid occurred at the firm's Guatemala City location, with the assistance of armed local law enforcement officers. The lawsuit's statement added:

Microsoft then proceeded to extort Plaintiffs by demanding an on-the-spot agreement to pay $70,000 or Microsoft would remove all… servers containing ALL data and operational software.


Sorry, I have no benefit of the doubt left for Microsoft, especially given the very recent data mining news, therefore I have to believe this at face value. Guilty until proven innocent. Put me on the jury please.


EDIT: added article

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 20 June 2013 - 03:42 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#3268
CharlotteTheHarlot

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The NSA's Surveillance Will Devastate Commerce ( John C. Dvorak PC Magazine 2013-06-17 )

[...]

I'd expect to see some smart people overseas capitalizing on this eventually, marketing their services as spy-proof. It might even help to explain as clever posturing the stories mentioned upthread where Google and Twiiter are suggesting they are challenging the spying paradigm. This whole fiasco will likely be a huge boost to Kim DotCom and his new Mega. In fact, we can probably make sense of that story now when they shutdown Megaupload and confiscated all the storage. What are the odds they were just looking for warez and music? His lawyers are probably celebrating this spying news because of all the new angles it gives them for the eventual court case, if it ever even happens.


I must be getting clairvoyant! One day later both subjects are right back in the news ...

Google challenges U.S. gag order, citing First Amendment ( TechSpot 2013-06-19 )

Google is petitioning the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to allow them to release information concerning data requests the court makes.

Citing the first amendment, Google argues that they have a constitutional right to speak about the information given to the government, despite the gag orders that accompany the requests, reports the Washington Post.


I think they have a good case because this court has not ever been tested for constitutionality. The old saying is that "The Constitution is not a suicide pact", however, if it keeps being interpreted to eliminate the First Amendment then we have already committed suicide.

I just thought of something. Considering all the revelations lately about data gathering ( spying ) and the responses from Congress and the White House stubbornly sticking by certain agencies doing anything and everything against USA citizens and even calling it "legal", well, how about this for the biggest display of hypocrisy ever, These stories are just one month old! They occurred before the spying became widespread news. Members of Congress displaying legendary levels of audacity ...

... just to name a few! Doesn't that just tick you off? These clowns worried about citizen privacy? :blink: Maybe this is one reason that Google is stepping up now to challenge the status quo of bending over and submitting to the government masters.


LeaseWeb deletes MegaUpload data from 690 servers without warning ( TechSpot 2013-06-19 )

All Data Wiped from MegaUpload Servers ( Tom's Hardware 2013-06-19 )

Kim Dotcom victim of 'largest data MASSACRE in history'. Megaupload servers wiped – were Feds to blame? ( UK Register 2013-06-19 )

Now this is a tough one, not because of his so-called "questionable" character, but because of the combined circumstances. Our USA government got the NZ government to fly in with helicopters and raid the guy's mansion, froze his assets and somehow got the cloud server hosts to just give them all the data. Kim and these server companies have been in limbo for a year which has cost them some big money so this particular cloud company decided to retask the drives for paying customers, a logical business decision but a horrific one from the standpoint of customer data and company reputation. Not to mention the fact that an enormous amount of evidence just went into the bit bucket ( naturally the government will have copies they will say proves DotCom hosted warez or nuclear secrets or whatever ). It's even more complicated than that but the description at least covers a good part of it.

The real point IMHO is this case should point out just how fragile that stupid cloud is. Your data may exist on reliable hardware, but the weak links make up the entire chain from you to them and back. Your data is subject to the whims of human beings at every juncture. And they all cannot be trusted. Not only is it being snooped, it is also vulnerable to being confiscated at the whim of fickle judges and courts and agencies, and finally is at risk of being wiped off the face of the Earth whenever it is deemed necessary. There is no telling how many family photos and personal documents are now disintegrated. I have always believed that data must be respected because all the other stuff ( CPU's motherboards, etc ) are expendable and replaceable, but the data is the only thing that really matters. Now that's fine for me and my customers, but it won't matter a whit if no-one else acts that way. This is why the cloud must be fought and those that push it as the only future must be ridiculed. It can certainly work in certain circumstances, AFTER carefully planning a multi-prong strategy with perhaps two cloud hosts or mirroring or some other similar redundancy. But we cannot leave this in the hands of the powers-that-be because none of them can be trusted, be it the feds or the cloud server companies or Microsoft itself.


EDIT: typos

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 20 June 2013 - 03:48 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#3269
Formfiller

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Microsoft launches revamp of its MSDN forums ( NeoWin 2013-06-19 )

Microsoft has also added a way for forum users to vote for what they think is abusive content in the message boards.


This must be a move to further censor the criticism over Windows 8 and Xbox and other fiascos. Reputation management.I bet. Can't wait for first hand reports from Formfiller who already mentioned disappearing threads and other tricks in the "Answers" forum.


There was already a function to flag "abusive content". That's not new. The new layout totally sucks though. The old layout had the looks of a normal forum, like this one. Their new layout on the other hand is more like Stackoverflow.com - it might be purposed to stifle discussion, because it looks now like a strict technical-answers forum. It's quite off-putting as a discussion forum.

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Formfiller

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While a good move, it also makes me a bit sad - this could only have happened because of the internet outrage.


I understand the mixed emotions, but think of the big picture: the Internet is a huge and effective weapon for consumers. This is exactly what is supposed to happen. I still expect Microsoft to be "punished" in that it's far more difficult to gain a customer than it is to lose him, and they have certainly lost many customers as a result of this fiasco. Even the more neutral parties will be pushed into a "wait and see" mode rather than an automatic buy.

Put another way, how much closer to 1984 would we be without the Internet?


Well, the inernet spurred alternate media and made sh*tstorms possible. On the other hand, it made surveillance and DRMization far more effective. And brought the cloud.

So on the issue of 1984, it's a very mixed bag.

Edited by Formfiller, 20 June 2013 - 03:45 AM.


#3271
dencorso

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Have any of you ever read Yevgeny (aka Eugene) Zamyatin's "We"? In "1984", Big Brother (or rather his servants) is watching everyone, while in "We" everyone watches everyone else all the time, because all buildings have glass walls! Things like Facebook and the cloud (and maybe tweeter too) do make walls become glass, in a sense... IMO we're much nearer "We" than "1984". :ph34r:

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HalloweenDocument12

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Well, the inernet spurred alternate media and made sh*tstorms possible. On the other hand, it made surveillance and DRMization far more effective. And brought the cloud.

So on the issue of 1984, it's a very mixed bag.


Without the current concept of the Internet, there'd still exist some sort of network, but it would more likely be provided by television or telephone companies and thus less amenable to consumer needs.

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jaclaz

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The real point IMHO is this case should point out just how fragile that stupid cloud is. Your data may exist on reliable hardware, but the weak links make up the entire chain from you to them and back. Your data is subject to the whims of human beings at every juncture. And they all cannot be trusted. Not only is it being snooped, it is also vulnerable to being confiscated at the whim of fickle judges and courts and agencies, and finally is at risk of being wiped off the face of the Earth whenever it is deemed necessary. There is no telling how many family photos and personal documents are now disintegrated. I have always believed that data must be respected because all the other stuff ( CPU's motherboards, etc ) are expendable and replaceable, but the data is the only thing that really matters. Now that's fine for me and my customers, but it won't matter a whit if no-one else acts that way. This is why the cloud must be fought and those that push it as the only future must be ridiculed. It can certainly work in certain circumstances, AFTER carefully planning a multi-prong strategy with perhaps two cloud hosts or mirroring or some other similar redundancy. But we cannot leave this in the hands of the powers-that-be because none of them can be trusted, be it the feds or the cloud server companies or Microsoft itself.

In Italian there is a common saying (mocking a Law article), often used when there is a dispute, to mean that whoever has in his possession the money (or property or *whatever*) already won, will win anyway:

Articolo quinto, chi ha i soldi ha vinto.

Liberally translated into English (to try and keep the rhyme):

Article one hundred and ten, the one with the money wins time and again.


I guess that it's time to replace "money" with "data", when referring both to the "cloud" and to the "prism" surveillance.

jaclaz

#3274
bpalone

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Have any of you ever read Yevgeny (aka Eugene) Zamyatin's "We"? In "1984", Big Brother (or rather his servants) is watching everyone, while in "We" everyone watches everyone else all the time, because all buildings have glass walls! Things like Facebook and the cloud (and maybe tweeter too) do make walls become glass, in a sense... IMO we're much nearer "We" than "1984". :ph34r:


I haven't read the book, but you are correct. The true ramifications of all this Social Media (Facebook, twitter and the like) will only start to show up in earnest 20 or so years from now. People are willingly sharing PERSONAL AND PRIVATE items on these sites. I hear people saying, I have to go onto Facebook to see any pictures of the grand kids.

Now, let's just say that little Johnny is a normal kid and will on occasions do some things that not really the most intelligent. For instance, on a cold winters day he may take a dare to stick his tongue onto the flag pole, and it becomes frozen thereto. Now, the family thinks this is funny, so they post it on Facebook. Now, let's fast forward 25 years and little Johnny is up for a major promotion or heaven forbid, has decided for run for public office. Someone finds this old picture and with the right spin, POOF there goes the promotion or the office.

Most everything in a person's and family's life belongs to be kept private, for family members only and only obtained by nefarious means by parties outside of the family. But, people are far too willing to hand everything over to some third party, so they don't have spend a couple of minutes emailing a photo or two to the grandparents, aunts and uncles.


As for the cloud, it isn't meant for anything of a private nature, unless heavily encrypted and then only for the brief time it takes for it to be picked up by the other party or parties. Of course you could host your own cloud, but then you have to be sure that your security is up to snuff, or you are likely to have a data breach. So, I still support the sneaker net.

bpalone

#3275
MagicAndre1981

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Microsoft launches revamp of its MSDN forums ( NeoWin 2013-06-19 )



MS ruined the MSDN/Technet forums completely :realmad: it is UNUSABLE.
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