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Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions


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#3501
Formfiller

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Oh man, Snowden's leaks about Microsoft and the NSA is sweet karma in action.

Not that I think that Google or Apple are so much better with privacy, but Microsoft surely deserved the bashing more than any other.

After all their FORCED clouderization (killing SBS, price hike of traditional Office, XBONE, shoving Skydrive everywhere, whether you want it or not), and their mega-hypocritical Scroogled campaign, they more than deserved this bash. No other company right now is so obnoxious with forcefully herding their users into the cloud-prison.

Karma is a b***h.




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#3502
Formfiller

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Epic thread on Techbroil:

 

http://www.techbroil...153466201975685

 

A discussion about a stupid MS ad turned into a mega flame war. Pretty amusing. If you have trouble with the lingo ("TMR" and so on), read this.



#3503
JorgeA

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Oh man, Snowden's leaks about Microsoft and the NSA is sweet karma in action.

Not that I think that Google or Apple are so much better with privacy, but Microsoft surely deserved the bashing more than any other.

After all their FORCED clouderization (killing SBS, price hike of traditional Office, XBONE, shoving Skydrive everywhere, whether you want it or not), and their mega-hypocritical Scroogled campaign, they more than deserved this bash. No other company right now is so obnoxious with forcefully herding their users into the cloud-prison.

Karma is a b***h.

 

Here's a link to that news:

 

Guardian Says Documents Show Microsoft Help for NSA

 

Relying on NSA documents provided by Edward Snowden, the Guardian reported that Microsoft recently worked with the FBI to help the NSA get around encryption on Microsoft services, such as online chats on Outlook.com, and to monitor conversations on the company’s Skype service.

 

The newspaper also said that Microsoft worked recently with the FBI to streamline the way NSA can access users’ files on SkyDrive, Microsoft’s online document storage service, when Microsoft is required to provide that information for foreign-intelligence purposes.

 

[emphasis added]

 

Google or Apple (not that they're entirely innocent, as you point out) could start an ad campaign on the theme of, "You've Been Microsofted." Or if that's too awkward to pronounce, then maybe "You've Been Ballmered"...

 

--JorgeA


Edited by JorgeA, 12 July 2013 - 10:59 AM.


#3504
G8YMW

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I see 34 pages of this thread have gone walkabout!



#3505
JorgeA

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I see 34 pages of this thread have gone walkabout!

It's weird, I'm not sure what exactly is going on. The page count has gone down by 34 pages, but the post count seems to be about the same, no?

 

We'd have to go manually through the pages to see if anything has been deleted or fused together. That would be pretty bad and annoying. ;)

 

--JorgeA



#3506
JorgeA

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From the July 8 issue of The Wall Street Journal, a less-than-glowing analysis and a good backgrounder. We've said much or most of what's in here, but it's gratifying to see the major business daily saying so, and saying it to its enormous and influential readership.

Here goes. Sorry, but the link and formatting options are not showing up at the time of this writing, and I don't necessarily remember what the keystrokes are. (I also had to hand-type the excerpts as the article is not available online.) I'll use standard quotation style. Internet fanatics keep your pitchforks to yourselves, as Internet forum software is Failing at this moment. (Shades of Office 364.)


"MICROSOFT'S PRODUCTS NEED MORE HORSEPOWER

"Microsoft keeps hitching its fortunes to lame horses. It shows how rickety parts of the software giant's business are.

"Barnes & Noble, Best Buy, Nokia, Yahoo and Dell all face very difficult circumstances of their own. While Microsoft's deals with most of them make sense, its relatively unpopular products and a changing competitive environment mean that they may not prove particularly fruitful.

"Start with Microsoft's troubled mobile business. One big strategic challenge has been getting smartphones powered by its operating system, Windows Phone, into the market. Its first big deal to address this saw it agreeing to pay Nokia $250 million a quarter to make Windows Phone its primary smartphone platform. That isn't much money for Microsoft, and it is mostly offset by royalties Nokia pays back.

"But Microsoft's traditional business model revolves around the company being paid by gadget makers for using its software, not the reverse. Microsoft needs to make concessions to help Windows Phone build momentum, sure. Yet it is hard to see payments ever flipping into Microsoft's favor in a big way.

"That is because rival Google offers its dominant Android mobile operating system without charge. It can afford to do so since this promotes its cash-cow search business. Meanwhile, Microsoft's own search engine, Bing, remains oned of the company's weaker products -- underlined by Yahoo's reported desire to get out of a 10-year deal to host its search results.

"With Android free, why would handset makers ever make a big commitment to Microsoft's mobile operating system? They might if customers were demanding Windows Phone handsets in huge numbers. But that is unlikely as well, given mobile-software developers are focused on bulding apps for platforms that already have significant market share -- namely Android and Apple's iPhone...."


* * *

Bottom line -- Microsoft is like a dog trying to become king of the river: wasn't built for it, ain't gonna happen. Shedding their fur (abandoning Desktop users) and flapping their paws like mad (with Metro) isn't going to do it, it's more likely simply to leave them both exahusted and exposed.

--JorgeA

EDIT: Not even an ampersand (as in the second paragraph of the article above) is working right now. And a further iteration of the mistake is added each time I edit the post.

Edited by JorgeA, 12 July 2013 - 11:36 PM.


#3507
CharlotteTheHarlot

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I see 34 pages of this thread have gone walkabout!

 

What I think happened is that since yesterday the default # of displayed comments changed from 20 to 25 which should account for missing pages.

 

For me, I had the # of comments per page set to maximum ( I think 150 ) so instead of missing pages, the total for me went from 24 to 141.

 

I don't think any posts have gone missing since the upgrade.


... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#3508
CharlotteTheHarlot

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How Microsoft handed the NSA access to encrypted messages ( UK Guardian 2013-07-11 )
Report: Microsoft helped NSA to access SkyDrive, Skype and Outlook.com ( NeoWin 2013-07-12 )
Leaked documents reveal Microsoft's collaboration with NSA ( TechSpot 2013-07-12 )
Report: NSA Has Access to Skype, SkyDrive; MSFT Responds ( Tom's Hardware 2013-07-12 )


The documents show that:

  • Microsoft helped the NSA to circumvent its encryption to address concerns that the agency would be unable to intercept web chats on the new Outlook.com portal;
  • The agency already had pre-encryption stage access to email on Outlook.com, including Hotmail;
  • The company worked with the FBI this year to allow the NSA easier access via Prism to its cloud storage service SkyDrive, which now has more than 250 million users worldwide;
  • Microsoft also worked with the FBI's Data Intercept Unit to "understand" potential issues with a feature in Outlook.com that allows users to create email aliases;
  • In July last year, nine months after Microsoft bought Skype, the NSA boasted that a new capability had tripled the amount of Skype video calls being collected through Prism;
  • Material collected through Prism is routinely shared with the FBI and CIA, with one NSA document describing the program as a "team sport".

( already mentioned by Formfiller and Jorge ) ... That first link is the meaty one referenced by everyone else. It is chock full of details about the core problem ... Microsoft was the first partner in the Prism spying ring and if you recall they were voluntary. This begs the question, why would the federal spooks go after Microsoft before anyone else? It's not like they are an ISP providing physical Internet access. No, it is because they are central to all things Internet. They are the operating systems maker for 90% of the traditional computer space, therefore the feds needed to gain a thorough understanding of the code behind it all. Yes, I don't think there is any real doubt that they have the Windows source code, not to mention everything else.

Needless to say their response, a quasi-denial, is wide enough to let a fleet of container ships sail through. It also puts this into perspective ...
 

"Finally when we upgrade or update products legal obligations may in some circumstances require that we maintain the ability to provide information in response to a law enforcement or national security request."


Guess how I read that? Well I believe this is why there has been such a mad push to kill Windows XP, an obsession of theirs ever since Vista appeared in 2007. Why does that date 2007 ring a bell, refer to the previous Guardian article ...
 

Some of the world's largest internet brands are claimed to be part of the information-sharing program since its introduction in 2007. Microsoft which is currently running an advertising campaign with the slogan "Your privacy is our priority" was the first, with collection beginning in December 2007.

It was followed by Yahoo in 2008; Google, Facebook and PalTalk in 2009; YouTube in 2010; Skype and AOL in 2011; and finally Apple, which joined the program in 2012. The program is continuing to expand, with other providers due to come online.

Collectively, the companies cover the vast majority of online email, search, video and communications networks."


So in 2007, we got both Vista and PRISM, which was also the year they lost their collective minds, hunkering down into a bunker mentality, the obnoxious Mojave Experiment ( the customer is doing it wrong ), and really the year they declared war on us.

The hypocrisy of the Scroogle campaign against Google is bad enough ( and Google is at least paying lip service to challenging the government ), but there really is more here than meets the eye. I would guess that each previous version of Windows is more secure with respect to customer privacy than the previous. Naturally Windows XP must die. And that is precisely why people who care about such things should never get rid of it. It also probably suggests that Win9x coupled with secure P2P communication might be the best solution of all.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#3509
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Microsoft Helps Retailers Dump Surface RT Inventory with $150 Price Cut ( Maximum PC 2013-07-12 )
Microsoft Surface RT getting $150 price cut starting this weekend ( TechSpot 2013-07-12 )
Report: Microsoft cutting price of Surface RT models by $150 (Update) ( NeoWin 2013-07-12 )

By my count this is the fourth price cut. Good thing they're not cumulative eh? Actually this is just milking the press, the cheapest one is still $349 with NO keyboard. Original price $499 with NO keyboard. So nothing has changed, this price has been in effect for a while now. It should have been $299 WITH keyboard all along so it is safe to say that nothing has really changed at Microsoft with regards to reading the marketplace. Compounding the problem is that this is rumored to be a stock clearing sale anyway, to make room for the next model no doubt at the original high price. Good luck guys.


NPD: Chromebooks now claim 20-25 percent of sub-$300 US laptop sales ( NeoWin 2013-07-12 )

After badmouthing these things for a good year the NeoWhiners will now have to swallow more bad news - people are buying these things after all. That's gonna leave a mark.


Ballmer: No plans for layoffs at Microsoft in reorganization ( NeoWin 2013-07-12 )

You're off the hook for now. Will you still feel safe 12 months from now?


Microsoft sues US Customs for letting in banned Motorola phones ( NeoWin 2013-07-12 )
Ban Android in India, says country's Communications and IT Minister (Update) ( NeoWin 2013-07-12 )

The act of a true monopolist is shown in that first story. It is all they really know, which in fact describes Apple as well. For the past three decades it is what they each have done best - clear the playing field of any competition and then move in for the kill, pick the fields clean like locusts and then move on. Naturally it is a perfect reflection of the patent system itself which is inexplicably designed to create a monopoly for the filer of an idea ( note I didn't say inventor, but the filer ).

That second article has now been corrected to reverse the original intent by the giddy NeoWin author, India will NOT try to ban Android. Sorry Microsoft and Apple.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#3510
jaclaz

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I see 34 pages of this thread have gone walkabout!

 

What I think happened is that since yesterday the default # of displayed comments changed from 20 to 25 which should account for missing pages.

 

For me, I had the # of comments per page set to maximum ( I think 150 ) so instead of missing pages, the total for me went from 24 to 141.

 

I don't think any posts have gone missing since the upgrade.

 

You really have to overdo it, don't you? :w00t:

Just imagine how many kilometers your swiping finger would need to cover on a touch tablet to scroll those 150 posts! ;)

 

:rofl:

 

jaclaz



#3511
CharlotteTheHarlot

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What I think happened is that since yesterday the default # of displayed comments changed from 20 to 25 which should account for missing pages.
 
For me, I had the # of comments per page set to maximum ( I think 150 ) so instead of missing pages, the total for me went from 24 to 141.
 
I don't think any posts have gone missing since the upgrade.


You really have to overdo it, don't you? :w00t:
Just imagine how many kilometers your swiping finger would need to cover on a touch tablet to scroll those 150 posts! ;)


It's funny because I thought more people would have been using "maximum" at least at home on giant displays!

I guess on a tablet smaller might be better but that is where a selection would come in handy. So I guess it all comes back to the TabletTards. Catering to the lowest common denominator. Why am I reminded of the early days with TABLE WIDTH and other hyper-specific settings that never translated well as screens and resolutions grew?

I remember first using 1280x1024 on Windows 95 when most were still on 1024x768 or 800x600. You got all this new space for Windows and stuff but on the Internet almost everything was stuck in miniature with no adjustment. Well, except those that paid attention to the warnings of stubbornly coding HTML for a specific display.

History repeats.

EDIT: typo

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 13 July 2013 - 08:42 PM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#3512
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft ( John C. Dvorak PC Magazine 2013-07-12 )


If I was a shareholder in any public company, I'd get up at the annual meeting and ask if the company was using Microsoft products and if so, I'd demand to know why it has not dumped them for something else. (And Google Docs is not an option.) And by the way, the Windows operating system is corrupted too. Smart money now uses Linux. The Linux code is open and available and you can look for yourself to see if the OS is sending messages to a spy agency or not.

This is a financial disaster waiting to happen. Microsoft is oblivious if it is not doing something to divorce itself from the NSA.

Apple, on the other hand, could have come out smelling like a rose, but following the death of Steve Jobs, who apparently refused to play ball with the NSA, it stupidly jumped on board to join the PRISM club.

Curiously, we've all known about the possible links between NSA and Microsoft since the Windows 2000 era when odd DLLs began to appear, which observers surmised were some back-door codes. ...


This is a really important point. He's made it once before, quite possibly before anyone else.

Good article.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#3513
jaclaz

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Work is fine and all, however ...

oTDnpDZ.jpg

ONLY seemingly OT, and JFYI :whistle::
http://www.spiegel.d...s-a-910677.html
http://www.policymic...-you-should-too

Remember that those are the same guys that invented the AK-47, a legendary gun that has outclassed in usability, ease of use, reliability and manufacturing costs each and every assault rifle ever made (and it still does after some 66 years).

jaclaz

#3514
CharlotteTheHarlot

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ONLY seemingly OT, and JFYI :whistle::
http://www.spiegel.d...s-a-910677.html
http://www.policymic...-you-should-too


Thanks! I guess we kind of knew it all had to come full circle, right?

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#3515
JorgeA

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These links, provided by jaclaz in another thread, have a bearing on our discussion here:

 

http://www.cio.com/a..._on_the_Decline_

 

http://www.cultofmac...-ipads-at-work/

 

If it turns out to be true that both employees and employers sour on the idea of BYOD, cooling off the fever for mobile gadgets, this could knock the props out of Microsoft's rationale for pushing not only the Surface, but also the whole Metro UI concept. Microsoft would be fighting the last war, with Desktop users as the main casualties but a new sliver of hope for resuscitation.

 

--JorgeA


Edited by JorgeA, 13 July 2013 - 09:29 PM.


#3516
CharlotteTheHarlot

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These links, provided by jaclaz in another thread, have a bearing on our discussion here:
 
http://www.cio.com/a..._on_the_Decline_
 
http://www.cultofmac...-ipads-at-work/
 
If it turns out to be true that both employees and employers sour on the idea of BYOD, cooling off the fever for mobile gadgets, this could knock the props out of Microsoft's rationale for pushing not only the Surface, but also the whole Metro UI concept. Microsoft would be fighting the last war, with Desktop users as the main casualties but a new sliver of hope for resuscitation.


So true, Microsoft always seems to be fighting the last war. I guarantee there is some hysterical laughter in Cupertino while they watch Redmond turning the formerly unassailable company upside down in order to dive headfirst into the mobile pool just as the water is draining out smashing their head on the concrete bottom.

That's gonna leave a mark.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#3517
JorgeA

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So true, Microsoft always seems to be fighting the last war. I guarantee there is some hysterical laughter in Cupertino while they watch Redmond turning the formerly unassailable company upside down in order to dive headfirst into the mobile pool just as the water is draining out smashing their head on the concrete bottom.

That's gonna leave a mark.

 

 

That's a very vivid picture you draw there!  ;)

 

--JorgeA



#3518
jaclaz

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That's gonna leave a mark.

Point is that Ballmer's head is SO d@mn tough that the pool will be seriously damaged.

Though the cracked concrete crater:

Spoiler

can be repaired, the pool won't ever be the same as before.... 

 

jaclaz



#3519
JorgeA

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This is some scary sh*t -- a small indication of what the NSA can learn about anybody that it chooses to set its sights on:

 

Curious what the NSA gleans from your Gmail? Now you can see for yourself

 

A Hypnotic Visualization of Everything Gmail Knows About You and Your Friends

 

 

As pointed out previously, this represents a real threat to the democratic system. If a government can keep track of who's talking to whom and when, that information provides precious tactical intelligence to head off or counter opposition activities: talk to that congressman who's been considering voting against you. Offer casually to tell the press about his flirty e-mails with a man who is not his wife. Did you find out where your rival in the next election is meeting "privately" (hahaha! :sneaky: ) for potential endorsements? Send a "spontaneous" rent-a-crowd to protest whatever at the endorser's home so that he can't make the meeting. The possibilities are endless, and not just for the Stalin types in Stalin-type governments.

 

--JorgeA



#3520
jaclaz

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Let's call things with their names :yes: .
 
That is PURE bull§hit.  :realmad:

Curious what the NSA gleans from your Gmail?
Now you can see for yourself

 
Should read:

Curious what the NSA gleans from your Gmail?
We were, and since we couldn't find ANY kind of accurate data, and we had to write something witty, we decided to attempt "selling" you a completely UNrelated MIT project, that has NO connection whatsoever with what the NSA may or may not see, gather and/or analyze.
Since if we had titled this piece of misinformation as it should have been, i.e. "Interesting project by MIT capable of analyzing Gmail data" we wouldn't have come even near to the number of views we had since we added in it NSA and Prism as keywords we went the usual way of misrepresenting things, so that the most gullible among our readers will spread these non-news.

On the tool page:

https://immersion.media.mit.edu/

Once you log in, Immersion will use only the From, To, Cc and Timestamp fields of the emails in the account you are signing in with. It will not access the subject or the body content of any of your emails.

I would expect that the NSA would be interested in contents. :whistle:

 

jaclaz 

 



#3521
vinifera

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lol microsoft was 1st jackass to comply

does this means Vista is clean of backdoors ? :D




Prism_slide_5.jpg


Edited by vinifera, 14 July 2013 - 04:38 PM.

If you want true Windows user experience
try Longhorn builds: 3718, 4029, 4066

#3522
JorgeA

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On the tool page:

https://immersion.media.mit.edu/

Once you log in, Immersion will use only the From, To, Cc and Timestamp fields of the emails in the account you are signing in with. It will not access the subject or the body content of any of your emails.

I would expect that the NSA would be interested in contents. :whistle:

 

jaclaz 

 

 

No doubt the NSA is interested in the contents of e-mails, but the newspaper reporting so far has indicated that, while they may or may not have access to those contents, they do have access to the kind of metadata that the MIT project analyzes. Therefore the MIT project serves as an illustration of what the NSA can do, with the proviso that the NSA does this with most or all e-mail services out there and not just Gmail, so they get a more complete picture of people's webs of relationships. And of course users send their info knowingly and voluntarily to MIT, which is more than can be said for the NSA.

 

--JorgeA



#3523
Tripredacus

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Not going to bring politics into this, but this was tweeted in February... titled "I spy"

https://twitter.com/...560295958749184

 

How strange, because "I spy" something that looks like Windows 8. Is Windows 8 an operating system for children? :}


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tpxmsfn1_zps393339c1.jpg

#3524
JorgeA

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It sure looks like it could be Windows 8!

 

Microsoft's strategy: "get 'em while they're young"...

 

BTW, we've all done very well so far in keeping the discussion at the philosophical level!   :thumbup  So please, no BHO comments pro or con. :ph34r:  (Unless they're actually about Browser Helper Objects...)

 

--JorgeA


Edited by JorgeA, 14 July 2013 - 06:10 PM.


#3525
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Apropos of one of the topics we've been covering...

 

A simple SSL tweak could protect you from GCHQ/NSA snooping

 

An obscure feature of SSL/TLS called Forward Secrecy may offer greater privacy, according to security experts who have begun promoting the technology in the wake of revelations about mass surveillance by the NSA and GCHQ.

 

 

Something to look into, but it doesn't appear to be a measure that an individual user can apply on his/her own. (I'll be happy to be corrected on that point!)

 

--JorgeA


Edited by JorgeA, 14 July 2013 - 08:21 PM.





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