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Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions


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#401
CoffeeFiend

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Large gesture in reality for small pointer moves on the screen

But then again, your precision on those larger moves is far lesser than what you have with your wrists and fingers, negating any possible gain.

Combine that with the poor precision/accuracy of such hardware (unlike expensive time-of-flight cameras) and you most likely have quite a bit less precision than with a mouse.
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#402
JorgeA

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Fredledingue,

+1 on everything you said.


Later on, the article gives the name of this MS software as, Kinect for Windows.

Any thoughts, speculation, educated guesses?

__________________
I was reading an article recently about a new kinetic control device, an invisible keyboard and mouse if you will, which was 100X more precise than any existing game console.

Cool stuff!

The problem with such interface is the unintended gestures interpretated as a command by the machine. When all your moves are watched by the machine, the machine tries to catch commands from you eventhought you didn't want to. Inadvertant mistakes may happen much more often.
You scratch an itch on your back and Oooops, the software closed the file without saving!
What happens if another person is next to you and also move his or her hands in all directions?
Poeple will need a real button control, to turn on and off the gesture detection.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Such a kinetic control device does sound really cool, but it could easily end up causing more work (undoing unintended commands) than it saves.

It's also not obvious to click, let alone to right-click or middle click or double-click with all the variants, when it's not a mouse.

For use on a Metro UI device, there's one particular gesture that I can think of for middle-clicking. ;)

--JorgeA

#403
Joseph_sw

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that reminds me, i remember playing some games that utilize scrolling the mouse-wheel while moving the mouse.
what the touch-based metro equivalent for that kind of gestures?

#404
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All this gesture talk reminds me of the YEARS they spent talking about utilizing voice input for the same kind of supposed gains in ease of use and efficiency. Besides in movies from the imagination of Hollywood, anybody see those in widespread use today? I guess Siri comes closest, but for regular office work?

Cheers and Regards

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#405
JorgeA

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that reminds me, i remember playing some games that utilize scrolling the mouse-wheel while moving the mouse.
what the touch-based metro equivalent for that kind of gestures?

Gosh, I can't begin to imagine what sort of combination of touch gestures would be used for that. Maybe it's too complicated a move for the supposed dummies that MS seems to envision will now be rushing out to live in the lobotomized Metro immersion.

--JorgeA

#406
JorgeA

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All this gesture talk reminds me of the YEARS they spent talking about utilizing voice input for the same kind of supposed gains in ease of use and efficiency. Besides in movies from the imagination of Hollywood, anybody see those in widespread use today? I guess Siri comes closest, but for regular office work?

Cheers and Regards

I've read something about this recently. IIRC, it's starting to come out for automobiles (to make calls through Bluetooth?).

But really. Unless the user is a quadraplegic (and voice input WOULD be very useful in their case), I can't see how it could possibly be more efficient than the mouse+keyboard combination. Especially if you need to amend or correct what you originally did. And then it introduces other usability and "multitasking" issues, as you then have to be careful what you say if you're on the phone by the PC, lest you screw up what's on the screen. It just doesn't seem practical for general business use.

--JorgeA

#407
jaclaz

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All this gesture talk reminds me of the YEARS they spent talking about utilizing voice input for the same kind of supposed gains in ease of use and efficiency. Besides in movies from the imagination of Hollywood, anybody see those in widespread use today? I guess Siri comes closest, but for regular office work?

For NO apparent reason :w00t:, something actually new, "The Leap":
http://reboot.pro/16922/
http://leapmotion.com/

at least you won't have all those ugly dirty fingerprints on your touchscreen.... ;)

jaclaz

#408
Tripredacus

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IMO The Deeper Impressions was a good catch all when it was in the Beta forum, but now that Win8 has its own forum, we can make new individual topics, insteads of just putting them in this catch all thread.
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#409
Fredledingue

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Jaclaz

Yes: Leap motion is what I was reading about:
Article in french about a new hand and finger gesture detection device

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#410
JorgeA

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Another acerbic, on-the-money comment on Windows 8:

BTW, whoever came up with the Windows 8 desktop UI, should be serving tables at McDonald's. The new Metro layer looks like a cheap 3rd party launcher stuck on top of Windows 7, with the old navigation scattered around in a haphazard manner.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 01 June 2012 - 03:15 PM.


#411
JorgeA

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Windows 8 continues its meteoric rise, this time up from a 0.12% share all the way to 0.13%.

The percentage was 0.14% in the week ending May 27.

--JorgeA

#412
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Man, I am so glad to see these threads bashing this 'Windows Tiles' disaster. So many mindless fanboys out there willing to accept anything that MS does to them.

Personally I have said since last fall that the only way I will end up with an installed RTM of this steaming pile is if someone pays me. Lo and behold!

http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-confirms-1499-windows-8-upgrade-plans

"As we have reported before, people who purchase their new Windows 7 PCs from a Microsoft Store retail location will reportedly also get some extra benefits for their $14.99 Windows 8 upgrade. That includes invites to free Windows 8 workshops and a $20 Microsoft Store gift card if they participate in the program, which basically covers the cost of the Windows 8 upgrade with $4.99 to spare".


So in theory there is a way to get 'Windows Tiles' for less than free. :lol:

(yeah I know, even at - $4.99 it still costs too much).

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#413
MagicAndre1981

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Windows 8 continues its meteoric rise, this time up from a 0.12% share all the way to 0.13%.


I'm waiting for the next marketing lie of Sinofsky where he writes that Win8 is used 3 times more compared to Win7 RC :lol: :lol: :lol:

Let me translate that for you: "We're optimizing Windows for using Facebook and YouTube at the expense of performing productivity tasks." Which is fine; it's a design choice Microsoft is free to make. But it's going to have an impact on the large base of people trying to get work done with a PC.


http://mobileopportu...-windows-8.html
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#414
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Let me translate that for you: "We're optimizing Windows for using Facebook and YouTube at the expense of performing productivity tasks." Which is fine; it's a design choice Microsoft is free to make. But it's going to have an impact on the large base of people trying to get work done with a PC.


http://mobileopportu...-windows-8.html

Andre,

That was well worth reading, thanks! If I quoted everything here that I liked about the article, i'd be cutting-and-pasting almost the whole thing. But for those who haven't seen it, here's a taste:

In Windows 8, the functions formerly done by Start have been spread across several locations, some in the Metro interface and some in Windows Explorer. So Windows users moving to Windows 8 will have to learn parts of Metro before they can get anything done. In some cases, common functions formerly available through a single click in Start have been buried several clicks deep within Metro.

If you're not a Windows user, it is hard to describe how disorienting this is. It's roughly equivalent to giving someone a car in which the steering wheel has been replaced by a joystick. Not only do you need to learn how to steer with a joystick, but all of the controls formerly attached to the steering column are now scattered in various spots on the dashboard. The wiper control is a lever above the radio, the high beam lights are a switch on the rearview mirror, the turn signal is a set of buttons under the speedometer, and the cruise control is a dial hidden inside the ashtray. Oh, and you honk the horn by bouncing up and down in your seat.


And the bottom line:

Windows 8 is a very interesting, provocative, even courageous product. But I'm not sure it's going to succeed. My concerns are in two areas. The first is that I'm not sure what burning problem Windows 8 solves for what group of users. If you're a productivity worker, Windows 8 does very little for you, and in fact probably makes your life harder. If you're most interested in entertainment and accessing online content, Metro is a big improvement over Windows -- but aren't you likely to already have a smartphone or tablet?


--JorgeA

#415
Fredledingue

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Here is my selection from the article:
____________________________

The first few independent Metro apps I've seen use the tile as an advertisement rather than making it blend into the Metro look
....

Most of the tiles you see when you start Windows 8 are Microsoft services

....
and it's not clear to me if you're even expected to manage files in Metro
....
It is absurdly difficult to turn off Windows 8. So difficult that there are entire web pages devoted to tutorials on how to do it.
....
When I worked in the competitive team at Apple, we tested every bizarre computer operating system we could find around the world, including stuff written in Japanese with no English-language documentation. We made all of it work. But there are still some parts of Windows 8 that I haven't been able to figure out, and other parts that I understand but that annoy me every time I touch them.


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#416
CoffeeFiend

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A short article worth reading: Windows 8: What happens next?. Basically:
-RTM likely in July
-RTM has some changes, like no more Aero, and probably making classic start menus history
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#417
CharlotteTheHarlot

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A short article worth reading: Windows 8: What happens next?.


The comments are a hoot.

"What happens next? I start looking for alternate solutions for a tablet that WON'T be using that teeny-bopper/bubble-gum Metro interface".

:lol:

"Seriously? You're calling METRO with it's sharp edges and FLAT shapes "Bubble-gum"? ...(blah blah)

:puke:

(snicker). And yet these same children still ramble about WinXP Fisher-Price as an argument somehow in their favor! Nevermind the fact that with a few clicks the bliss wallpaper and default VisualStyle could be changed voluntarily, *unlike* this forthcoming steaming pile of crap. Ah well, most of us knew a decade ago that with the fiasco of UxTheme.dll (unpatched) locking out most 3rd party themes that Microsoft was already on a trajectory of arrogance.

What I find most astounding is that since Vista bit them on their butt, somehow Microsoft has raised and nurtured an entire bumper crop of smug fanboy cheerleaders, enablers really, that are arguing *against* freedom of choice, demanding that Microsoft select their theme for them and insisting they do it to everyone else too. As bad as the Apple fanboys were 20-25 years ago they were still geniuses compared to these spoiled generation X-Box babies.

So what has somehow happened in my lifetime is that Microsoft has created a small but vocal rabid base of Mac-like fanboy children, while Microsoft the company has ironically turned itself into, (wait for it ...), IBM! Old-timers will appreciate just how big an insult that is (billg, I know that hurts).They are now the opposite of what they originally strove for, having become a lumbering behemoth that is tone-deaf to the customer, throwing its weight around and doomed to fail repeatedly in the future. They are really gambling now too. The ink is barely dry on the lifting of the last government judgment and they are already sticking their neck out for it to be chopped off completely. My guess is the catalyst for action will be the draconian, completely laughable Sopranos-like contract for App developers. The recent EULA fiasco sure looks like a lame attempt to thwart this (and will not work): Updated Microsoft EULA prohibits class action lawsuits.

Because of one arrogant mis-step after another, they are creating a united enemy triad of corporate customers (never keen on purchasing toys for the work environment, that goes double in a tight budget dead economy ), professional software developers (watching their tools and their target base environment being destroyed before their eyes, while their years of expensive education and experience was apparently for nothing) and the home consumer (dragged into a bland, retarded, locked down GUI that treats them like the child that Microsoft thinks they are). It sure looks like slow-motion company suicide to me.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#418
jaclaz

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It is absurdly difficult to turn off Windows 8. So difficult that there are entire web pages devoted to tutorials on how to do it.
....


Just in case, old school method, rather effective ;):
Spoiler


jaclaz

#419
JorgeA

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It is absurdly difficult to turn off Windows 8. So difficult that there are entire web pages devoted to tutorials on how to do it.
....


Just in case, old school method, rather effective ;):

LOL -- works every time!! :lol:

--JorgeA

#420
Fredledingue

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You know what? I'm going to buy quickely a w7 installation disc while it's still available.
(so far I have it only pre-installed on a laptop)
Because once w8 is out MS will do everything to prevent the sale of w7.
I won't be surprised if they asked their reseller to ship back w7 discs.

W7 may be the last Windows OS as we know it.
We may have no more new version of Windows after w7.
W8 is not a version of Windows for me. It doesn't deserve that name.

It's like Microsoft is dead.

So MS pretends that they want to turn my desktop into this:
Posted Image

They must be kidding. Yeah.. KMA!
______________
CNet's Mary Jo Foley

but there are three new default apps that show off the possibilities of Windows 8: Travel, News, and Sports

_________________
BHAAAAAWHAAAAHAHAHAHAAAAA! :D
I was almost ROTFLMAOGCT when I read that.

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#421
JorgeA

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Fredledingue,

Awful, just awful.

If I want entertainment and ads when I turn on a screen, I'll go to the TV set -- not to my computer!! :realmad: :realmad:

And if I want news or travel info when I'm on the computer, I'll open my IE Favorites, thank you. No need to push them at me as soon as I turn on the d*mn PC. And I certainly don't need this epileptic-seizure inducing Metro screen with all those tiles constantly blinking and scrolling, vying for my attention. :realmad: :realmad: :realmad:

You know what? I'm going to buy quickely a w7 installation disc while it's still available.

That's a GREAT idea. Insurance for the future.

--JorgeA

#422
CoffeeFiend

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Most of the apps are complete junk anyway. They're often a plug for their services that most people don't want of (with a big emphasis on making money from them).

The news app has an incredibly low information density (form over function as usual), and the stories very much suck compared to any decent news site I've ever visited. Day and night.

Same for the weather app: one gigantic picture (I want weather information primarily, not to look at photos) and a tiny amount of text at the bottom, which again has less infos than usual weather web sites. Currently it says "Rain, 11°C" and very little more. Whereas a popular site tells me it's actually Light rain, 11°C, 20km/h wind (with 35km/h gusts), that they expect around 1mm of rain, and TONS more infos. That's so much more useful. Forget the full page photo and give me the information I want instead.

If I was ever stuck using Win8 (*shudder*) the very first thing I'd do is to unpin all metro apps.
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#423
Tripredacus

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See that guy in the top right corner? He's pointing at you and saying "HA HA!"

Posted Image
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#424
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Sometimes I can't believe two different people are looking at the same thing.

*** nVidia shows off Windows RT on Asus Tablet ***



Of course the children immediately write comments like "Looks very fluid" and "Take my money". :lol: He must mean daddy's money.

This is what Microsoft snookered half the world into beta testing for. To sell $1000 netbooks that function as a web browser and consumer shopping device to blow even more money on music and videos played on a tiny screen with speakers that sound like crap. You can't make this stuff up. The dumbing down of the human race has been completed. This is further confirmed when the guy explains how you can have two things open at a time! All kinds of combinations! Twitter and MSIE, Facebook and Twitter! Oh my.

I just noticed something too. I have a netbook here with Win7 that looks exactly the same physical size but when you compare it against the Win8 Sesame Street blocks on the video, the optical illusion makes the Asus thing look really REALLY small, like a toy.

If you place four of the same size tablets side by side, with Win7, Android, iOS, Win8 interfaces in direct comparison (maybe we can locate four photos and place them in a comment), I have no doubt that Win8 will be the least pleasing to the eye unless you are 5 years old. I mean that. Never underestimate the power of first impression. I'd be embarrassed to buy one of those things.

Microsoft must be looking over at Blackberry and HP and praying that some of these things sell unlike the others or they will be in deep trouble I think.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#425
JorgeA

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This is what Microsoft snookered half the world into beta testing for. To sell $1000 netbooks that function as a web browser and consumer shopping device to blow even more money on music and videos played on a tiny screen with speakers that sound like crap.

This ought to be quoted on every tech website, every news site, in every newspaper and every weekly magazine on the planet.

--JorgeA




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