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Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions


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#26
JorgeA

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you must create a DWORD (32Bit) under parameters and set it to 0.

If this still doesn't work, install the feedback tool and send a feedback report. MS promise they read every feedback.

Andre,

OK -- that's how it's set now, a DWORD value in the Parameters section. Still not coming up with anything.

I'll look for that feedback tool, thanks.

--JorgeA


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#27
JorgeA

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John C. Dvorak's take on Windows 8:

"My advice to those at Microsoft who think Metro is cool or groovy is to quit software design and get a job at Old Navy."

:thumbup :thumbup

#28
CoffeeFiend

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It's not just him. Everybody seems to voice a similar-ish opinion.

Windows 8 Metro: Microsoft needs to let users opt-out
Windows 8 will be 'largely irrelevant' to traditional PC users: IDC
Why 'Windows 8' Isn't What I Thought It Would Be
Windows 8 is the new Vista -- and that's a good thing
etc.
Including content you have to signup for like Enterprises are unlikely to jump on Microsoft's Metro:

For enterprises, though, Metro is a problem. [snip] In short, it could be a migration nightmare. And to what end? Metro doesn't seem to have any clear benefits for corporations.

Seemingly they just announced that the Beta (Consumer Preview) will be out on February 29th and yet I don't even care. It's the first time ever I'm not excited at all about a new OS release from MS. Metro is dead on arrival, and a Metro-only Windows is something I will not use. I just want to fast forward 3 years and see what they have in store for Win9, specifically what they've got to replace Metro with. Meanwhile I'll stay on Win7. I don't know if I should laugh or cry at the idea of being able to tell people that Vista is a worthwhile upgrade over Win8.

Unless of course you can disable the Metro garbage. In which case it'll be an OS that has very little to offer over Win7 i.e. not really worth upgrading to anyway, unless you're still using an older version of Windows on a new PC, or that you're buying a new computer. Explorer with ribbons, ISO mounting built-in (freeware does this anyway) and a fancier task manager (process explorer is still better). That's more of a Service Pack or "R2" thing rather than a new OS.
Coffee: \ˈkȯ-fē, ˈkä-\. noun. Heaven in a cup. Life's only treasure. The meaning of life. Kaffee ist wunderbar. C8H10N4O2 FTW.

#29
MagicAndre1981

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http://www.zdnet.com...n-arrival/10275

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#30
CoffeeFiend

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More angry people, coming from the "other" Windows fanboy site.
Coffee: \ˈkȯ-fē, ˈkä-\. noun. Heaven in a cup. Life's only treasure. The meaning of life. Kaffee ist wunderbar. C8H10N4O2 FTW.

#31
Joseph_sw

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if things doesn't change much on Consumer Preview,
I'll fully blame the feedback censorships while on dev-preview.

Edited by Joseph_sw, 09 February 2012 - 07:41 PM.


#32
CoffeeFiend

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I'll fully blame the feedback censorships while on dev-preview.

I mean, who cares if everybody says it blows? Their main Windows designer -- who doesn't even use Windows but rather a Mac -- certainly knows better than all of us!

Hey guys, you should totally use this thing I made, it's like way awesome. But I'm not going to use it. Right.
Coffee: \ˈkȯ-fē, ˈkä-\. noun. Heaven in a cup. Life's only treasure. The meaning of life. Kaffee ist wunderbar. C8H10N4O2 FTW.

#33
JorgeA

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Unless of course you can disable the Metro garbage. In which case it'll be an OS that has very little to offer over Win7 i.e. not really worth upgrading to anyway, unless you're still using an older version of Windows on a new PC, or that you're buying a new computer. Explorer with ribbons, ISO mounting built-in (freeware does this anyway) and a fancier task manager (process explorer is still better). That's more of a Service Pack or "R2" thing rather than a new OS.

CoffeeFiend,

Yeah, in my case it would be a relief if MS offered a way to disable the Metro interface. I have yet to buy a new PC that wasn't factory-assembled, so with the possibility of a Metro-free Windows 8, come time for a new PC I wouldn't have to worry whether it would be possible to buy a "downgrade" Win7 license and have the machine arrive with it preinstalled.

--JorgeA

#34
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Any thoughts on the following:

In Windows 8, MS can remove your apps AND data

The comments section is particularly enlightening.

Sounds like a step toward changing the computer from a wide-open instrument of personal exploration and enrichment, to a "black box" appliance controlled by strangers from afar.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 11 February 2012 - 12:29 PM.


#35
CoffeeFiend

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In Windows 8, MS can remove your apps AND data

Just because Apple does something wrong, they have to as well (well, at least Apple won't delete blacklisted apps from your device)? Wow. Now we have to root our Windows PCs just like iPhones if we want full control of what we paid for? Great.

Oh, and I was just thinking. Not only Win32 apps won't work on ARM tablets (the CPUs have completely different instruction sets and architectures) i.e. almost anything one would want to run, but even apps that aren't tied to a specific CPU architecture (.NET apps) probably won't run either. They won't run unless they port winforms and WPF, otherwise it's ONLY going to be Metro apps.

A couple other good reads from zdnet:
Are Windows 8 tablets already irrelevant?

Microsoft is betting the farm on there being a demand for Windows on tablets despite there having been no serious demand in the past. And to make matters worse, Windows on ARM-powered hardware won’t actually be the sort of Windows that people are used.

You mean, a completely different UI, and none of the apps or drivers that makes Windows what it is means it's pointless? Yes.

Windows 8 Metro UI and how previous attempts to revamp the desktop failed

Metro could still be seen as an unnecessary layer between the user and their beloved desktop.

That's precisely what it is.

Windows 8 design flaws Microsoft MUST address

#3 - Metro is nothing more than a gimmick on the desktop and needs a kill switch

^^^ A million times this!
Making lame excuses for Microsoft's decision to drop the Start button in Windows 8
...

MS management seems to be as good as RIM's lately. At least those people eventually fired management. Let's hope MS follows suit...
Coffee: \ˈkȯ-fē, ˈkä-\. noun. Heaven in a cup. Life's only treasure. The meaning of life. Kaffee ist wunderbar. C8H10N4O2 FTW.

#36
JorgeA

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CoffeeFiend,

What a great bunch of links, thanks!

Are Windows 8 tablets already irrelevant?

Here's another quote to call out from that article:

While Sinofsky is clever enough not to say it in the blog post, the feeling I get is that Microsoft now sees the traditional desktop UI as “legacy,” and that’s worrying.

There will be hell to pay if they ever get rid of the desktop completely. For example, if there is a way to see (let alone use) other hard drives and their contents from within the Metro interface, I have yet to find it. (Suggestions welcomed.) There's probably not much of a need to back up the contents of a tablet's drive, but that underscores the fact that tablets are toys and tablet interfaces are not intended for serious work. So why cram it down users' throats?

Windows 8 design flaws Microsoft MUST address

Problem is, once you have more than a few apps running, there’s no quick and easy way to cycle between them. You move the mouse to the left, an icon pops up, and if it’s not the right one, you have to click on it and try again.

I've run into this annoyance a number of times. On the desktop you can easily move the cursor to the right place on the taskbar to get directly to the program you want.

Going back to your first link -- the only way I can see using a tablet (Windows or otherwise) is if I'm sitting in the kitchen or the family room and get an idea to write down, or decide to look something up on the Web, then printing it later or saving it for copying it to my main PC. If there isn't any way to do these things, then a tablet is just an expensive plaything.

Windows 8 Metro UI and how previous attempts to revamp the desktop failed

Metro could still be seen as an unnecessary layer between the user and their beloved desktop.

That's precisely what it is.

I'm looking at Metro as Microsoft's most aggressive attempt to date to implement an "active" desktop. Most aggressive, because this time we may not be able to turn it off. (While I never understood or cared for the Win98 Active Desktop, I do use the Vista Sidebar.)

The most cogent comment from the "Making lame excuses" blog post:

That's the problem with most modern operating systems: they've been systematically removing the ability to configure the system like you want if you are an ordinary user and not a registry hacker (in the case of windows). This fault is not limited to Windows, Gnome and Unity display this problem and I think Apple actually invented "no user choice" aka "we know best" aka "arrogant inflexibility". Good products are those that help users mold the product to their purposes.


Keep those insightful articles coming!

--JorgeA

#37
MagicAndre1981

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here are also good comments in the b8 blog:

Combining a Tablet OS with the desktop OS so that people have "lots of choices" will lead to something like the car Homer Simpson designed...

http://onscreencars....uilt-for-homer/


it really shows that you can't build 1 thing which is best everywhere. The result is totally ugly (like Metro for Desktop users).

Search is not really fun. swittiching between metro ui and desktop ui to serach is really crappy idea. it is hurting my eyes when I have to switch between desktop and metro.

I used developer preview for 1.5 months and my eyes were strained much quicker than win 7. continuous switching is not fun.


this is also my BLOCKER issue. This permanent switching is a nightmare for my eyes :realmad: The same happens to some users at work. They all have the same eye issue with Windows 8 and that's why they also skip Windows 8.

But as you can see MS doesn't accept this.
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#38
mrsk565

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I think the problem with windows 8 is that microsoft had success with 7 and they dont know where to go from there. Instead of improving certain areas in win 7 they abandoned that idea and instead took a more easy route to make money. When Vista came out they knew it wasn't ready but knew people would still buy it. They did not care but only wanted money. After that they said, "oh we're so sorry, we'll fix vista and require the right ram and cpu before shipping." Hence, the first pc's with vista had only 1 or 2 gigs of ram which was not very good.

Then came windows 7, But they still kept taking money. Starter, home basic, most of those editions had very little options for the user. I heard it was even as bad where you couldnt change the wallpaper. Who wants to spend over 100$ for that? But pro and ultimate came out and gave us more choice. Well guess what guys, thier at it again with windows 8. Dont be surprised if they rip people off at first, appologize, then make false promises for newer releases but take away options, and in the end come out with a pro or ultimate. Its in thier nature, they take advantange of us knowing that our own nature is to always be looking for a better system with the latest features and whatnot. So from what I've heard and seen its better to be patient with microsoft and also abit cautious when going out ready to buy a new windows.

Its just my opinion though from what i've seen and heard, i'm not trying to put anyone down who likes win 8 though.

Edited by mrsk565, 12 February 2012 - 02:45 PM.

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#39
JorgeA

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Then came windows 7, But they still kept taking money. Starter, home basic, most of those editions had very little options for the user. I heard it was even as bad where you couldnt change the wallpaper. Who wants to spend over 100$ for that? But pro and ultimate came out and gave us more choice. Well guess what guys, thier at it again with windows 8. Dont be surprised if they rip people off at first, appologize, then make false promises for newer releases but take away options, and in the end come out with a pro or ultimate. Its in thier nature, they take advantange of us knowing that our own nature is to always be looking for a better system with the latest features and whatnot. So from what I've heard and seen its better to be patient with microsoft and also abit cautious when going out ready to buy a new windows.

Hmm, interesting theory.

Maybe I'm falling into the trap, but you know what -- if they come out with a version of Windows 8 that allows you to turn off the Metro interface and work exclusively in the Desktop, when the time comes to update/upgrade my PCs I won't mind paying the premium for it just to not have to deal with that annoyance.

Also, I'm not in a hurry to do that upgrading, so I can be patient and cautious like you said. :)

--JorgeA

#40
JorgeA

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I spent some time with Metro Internet Explorer 10. Has anybody found a way, within Metro IE10, to download files from links in Web pages? How about to tell it to print pages?

I right-clicked on a link to an MP3 file, and it started downloading right away, but I had no way to choose where to or how to name the file. Also right-clicked on a link to a text page, and it took me to the page showing the text, but there was no option to download it.

--JorgeA

#41
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Metro IE10

Two wrongs (Metro and IE) don't make a right ;) (yes, but three lefts do)

It looks like Win8 tablets running ARM CPUs will pretty much be free from most useful software, much like I had expected (so there's no point to run Windows in the first place). MS' best solution is to open a web page in Metro IE10, which then connects to terminal services (remote desktop basically). I'm almost giggling at the idea.
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#42
JorgeA

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Metro IE10

Two wrongs (Metro and IE) don't make a right ;) (yes, but three lefts do)

LOL :D

It looks like Win8 tablets running ARM CPUs will pretty much be free from most useful software, much like I had expected (so there's no point to run Windows in the first place). MS' best solution is to open a web page in Metro IE10, which then connects to terminal services (remote desktop basically). I'm almost giggling at the idea.

Thanks for another interesting link. At first I thought that Mary Jo Foley (or Simon Bisson) made a mistake in writing about, "the new plugin-less IE Desktop in Windows 8" as only Metro IE was going to be without plug-ins. (I've already added a plug-in to desktop IE10.) If the final Desktop IE10 would also make no room for plugins, then things would be even worse than we thought. But it turns out that this is desktop IE for Windows on ARM, whew!

--JorgeA

#43
CoffeeFiend

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Oh, another somewhat reliable link that says we'll have Metro forced on us, against our will.

I suspect there’s a hard core of Windows fundamentalists who will never accept Metro style, or will resist it for some period of time. They’ll just have to deal with it, because I’m told the final release will not include a “classic” option with the Windows 7-style Start menu and search behavior.


So I guess updating is over. No more sales for MS ever. Let's hope we'll have enough years of downgrade rights to switch away or something (then again, lots of people will certainly pirate it beyond that point), and updates beyond year 2020 too. Or maybe some company's going to make a killing selling a sane shell for the new OS. Or maybe they'll fire Ballmer and Sinofsky... Or maybe someone will find an easy way to patch Win7's shell and bolt it on top of Win8's core. Who knows. But they've essentially done the unthinkable and killed Windows as far as I'm concerned. My next PC will be a Mac. Microsoft just sold me into buying a Mac :wacko:

They're just going to force users to other OS'es, developers to make cross-platform software (no need for Windows anymore) or to make web apps (ditto). And Windows will just slowly become irrelevant, being used mainly for legacy stuff, in VMs and terminal servers.
Coffee: \ˈkȯ-fē, ˈkä-\. noun. Heaven in a cup. Life's only treasure. The meaning of life. Kaffee ist wunderbar. C8H10N4O2 FTW.

#44
mrsk565

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I would hate to see that day, im on win 7 now and I can do just about anything I can think of, my wife on the other hand has an ipad 2. And I know some people like it but i just cant get into it. I dont want to pay for things that windows offers for free. Im not really into apps either. I run windows 7 for games, music, videos, just about anything. But when using the ipad it can be very restricting for me to do those things. I have done the work arounds to unlock things but it always comes down to having to pay. In a lighter note I would like windows 8 on a touch device to insure my freedom to do want i need to. But besides from MAC which is a laptop and im not talking about laptops now but touch devices like the ipad, I think apple sucks at this.
Of course if you have money to through at apple it might not concern you. Ya there is paid apps in win 8, but it still gives you the ability to use flash and other types of files that Ipads dont. Apple is making big bucks off turning free content into paid content and thats something I really dont like.

Edited by mrsk565, 15 February 2012 - 06:35 PM.

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#45
CoffeeFiend

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I would hate to see that day

Same here, but MS is working hard towards that.

im on win 7 now and I can do just about anything I can think of

Same here, and loving it too. Not really big on tablets either, much like you. They don't answer most of my needs, but it's probably handy for a few fun things (like most portable gadgets).

But when using the ipad it can be very restricting for me to do those things.

I don't see Win8-on-ARM tablets being any better. Mainly the same thing, but with Metro and less apps. It won't run *any* software you already have (nor things like Flash games online), it's just as locked down, same apps marketplace idea, etc. It might have the Windows name, but it's totally unlike what you've used on the desktop.

Either ways, I'm not concerned about iPads or the dead on arrival Win8 tablets (or WP7 phones that share the same fate). I'm talking about MS turning the desktop into something really awful to use, making it a real pain for developers and so on.
Coffee: \ˈkȯ-fē, ˈkä-\. noun. Heaven in a cup. Life's only treasure. The meaning of life. Kaffee ist wunderbar. C8H10N4O2 FTW.

#46
tomasz86

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Any similarities ? :P

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#47
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Any similarities ? :P

Lots :)
-Windows 3.1 was little more than a pointless graphic launcher for text (DOS) apps. Win8 is little more than a pointless OS for launching a handful of Metro apps.
-Both have a pretty horrible interface
-Both bring very little worthwhile features over their predecessor
-Both suck for developers
...

And yes, big boxes everywhere too.
Coffee: \ˈkȯ-fē, ˈkä-\. noun. Heaven in a cup. Life's only treasure. The meaning of life. Kaffee ist wunderbar. C8H10N4O2 FTW.

#48
mrsk565

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"COFFEE SAID"

don't see Win8-on-ARM tablets being any better. Mainly the same thing, but with Metro and less apps. It won't run *any* software you already have (nor things like Flash games online), it's just as locked down, same apps marketplace idea, etc.


I see, Sorry for the confusion. I think was alittle mislead by some of the youtube videos out there showing you can do alot of the same stuff as win 7 on 8. Most be fakes then

Edited by mrsk565, 15 February 2012 - 07:23 PM.

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#49
CoffeeFiend

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showing you can do alot of the same stuff as win 7 on 8. Most be fakes then

Those must be demos based on the desktop version of Windows 8 (it still has the Phone-like touch interface), not ARM Tablets.
Coffee: \ˈkȯ-fē, ˈkä-\. noun. Heaven in a cup. Life's only treasure. The meaning of life. Kaffee ist wunderbar. C8H10N4O2 FTW.

#50
JorgeA

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I don't see Win8-on-ARM tablets being any better. Mainly the same thing, but with Metro and less apps. It won't run *any* software you already have (nor things like Flash games online), it's just as locked down, same apps marketplace idea, etc. It might have the Windows name, but it's totally unlike what you've used on the desktop.

The locked-down Metro interface is a salvo in what's been called "the war on general computation." Intentionally or not, computers are slowly turning into appliances that customers can use only as the makers wish.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 15 February 2012 - 08:05 PM.





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