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Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions


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#651
MagicAndre1981

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..people who did the UI of products like Windows 2000 and XP are brought in for doing the shell and UI stuff.[/b]


no, no, no. I don't need a new teletubbies Windows like XP :no: :no:
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#652
CharlotteTheHarlot

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But you should see the good guys at MS like a (BTW very gifted in their self-esteem) doctor.

In their own words:
http://blogs.technet.com/b/windowsserver/archive/2012/05/17/improved-server-manageability-through-customer-feedback-how-the-customer-experience-improvement-program-makes-windows-server-2012-a-better-product-for-it-professionals.aspx

If you do not forfait all your data to them, NOW, you are actually holding them back from helping other people, you little selfish bastard! ;)

Wow, that link is some read! That 'spin-doctor' doctor spin still has my head spinning. :blink: Although the article is specifically about 2k12, there is a real gem in there which puts even further doubt on their ability to make informed decisions from the questionable sample size and quality of that sample.

Recall how the Start Menu removal is allegedly due to interpretation of telemetry data from Vista and Win7, and recall how so many people have pointed out the folly of this because few sane persons would voluntarily opt-in. Thus that sample is almost exclusively noobs that clicked through some last-chance prompt or maybe they are Mojave style focus groups of carefully selected Seattle hipsters.

This is right from the horse's mouth and IMHO demonstrates that whomever is in the CEIP sample, they shouldn't be considered representative of intelligent life forms ...

"After the release of Windows Server 2008 R2, we did an assessment of CEIP adoption and found that 5-7% of servers in market were reporting CEIP. While working with customers on CEIP adoption we found that although servers were opted-in we weren’t getting data from them. We did a root cause analysis and learned that the main reason servers weren’t reporting is because they are deployed in firewalled environments. To send CEIP data, servers need to be able to communicate over HTTPS (default port 443) and need to have proxy settings configured (if the server is in a network that uses a proxy server). In working with Technology Adoption Program (TAP) customers, we found that frequently one or more of these settings were not configured, thus preventing CEIP data from reaching Microsoft."


Again, this is concerning 2k12 and the data is pulled from 2k8 ... however ... it stands to reason that CEIP on consumer versions of Vista and 7 would also bounce off any working outbound firewall. Therefore, the already small and questionable CEIP sample used to kill the 17 year-old Start Menu consists of: ... users that are so bright that they voluntarily opted-in AND also actively added the CEIP to the firewall whitelist. ... and/or ... users that were NOT bright enough to opt-out of the CEIP program AND are happily running with no outbound blocking whatsoever. On instinct, I gotta go with the latter dominating the sample here.

Seriously, let's all pray real hard that Microsoft is not responsible for data services for any lifesaving clinical medical trials, and that they are definitely not allowed to be anywhere near vote counting on election day.

On the security front, the article continues ...

"To make it easy to send CEIP data, Windows Server 2012 Beta ships several new features that allow you to get past the blocking issues so you can ‘set and forget’ CEIP. To participate in the CEIP program, the simplest way to deliver CEIP data to us is to use a new feature called Windows Feedback Forwarder (WFF). WFF is a service that proxies CEIP data from machines in a domain to Microsoft. WFF will proxy CEIP data Windows products including Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 or higher. WFF will also proxy data for any Microsoft product that is enabled to ‘send customer feedback’."


I am almost at a loss for words. Almost. So I gotta ask. With all the data break-ins lately in the news almost every single day, would you really consider entering your personal data or paypal or CC numbers onto a commercial site that was 'powered by Windows Server 2012'? Seriously, If I were working for the competition I would just develop site banners/badges that said: 'Secure Site NOT powered by Windows'. Yeah I know there is more to it than hacking in, execution and getting out, but let's face facts. CEIP is a completely working spyware infrastructure designed to collect, aggregate and transport highly specific and sensitive data with a minimum of notice-ability. It is a miracle that it has not yet been compromised.

Wanna know something they must be worrying about up in Redmond? Here it is. Just imagine if the next version of Stuxnet/Flame or some banking credit card virus simply masquerades as CEIP! Microsoft will be royally screwed then, and we will see the largest patch Tuesday in history.

Microsoft Windows 8 : The customer is always right (when he agrees with the Telemetry data)


... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#653
jaclaz

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Wow, that link is some read! That 'spin-doctor' doctor spin still has my head spinning. :blink: Although the article is specifically about 2k12, there is a real gem in there which puts even further doubt on their ability to make informed decisions from the questionable sample size and quality of that sample.

Yes, but "traditionally" all good (and most evil :ph34r: ) have come from "Server" or however "Professional/Corporate" solutions, that in the years have been forced to "innocent" end customers.
Just think of the use your mom or grandmother makes of features like:

  • NTFS quotas
  • file permissions
  • transactional filesystem
  • fast user switching
  • ....

on her netbook (that she uses to read some news, find some cook recipes and write/receive e-mails to/from her friends/relatives, besides keeping a spreadsheet with home expenses).

With regards to your quote:

"After the release of Windows Server 2008 R2, we did an assessment of CEIP adoption and found that 5-7% of servers in market were reporting CEIP. While working with customers on CEIP adoption we found that although servers were opted-in we weren’t getting data from them. We did a root cause analysis and learned that the main reason servers weren’t reporting is because they are deployed in firewalled environments.

I will translate it in plain English:
  • We conducted a market research on a non-casual sample of users representing no more than 7% of the market.
  • Instead of realizing that any sample - if not casual - is meaningless metrics, we tried to enlarge the sample size still keeping it non-casual, i.e . having a bigger volume of meaningless data instead of attempting to have an even minimal volume of meaningful data.
  • Then we learned :w00t: that the reason why the sample was so meager in size was connected to the fact that Enterprise Servers (i.e. something designed to keep possibly sensitive data either of private or commercial nature) were on purpose shielded by firewalls and similar devices in order to prevent information from escaping them :whistle: .

Those correspond, respectively, to lesson #1 and #2 in statistics, and to lesson #3 in computer science (Lesson #1 being "turn on the PC", Lesson #2 being "turn the monitor on, too"), the good MS guys must have had some more interesting things to do instead of attending class :whistle: .


jaclaz

#654
xpclient

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..people who did the UI of products like Windows 2000 and XP are brought in for doing the shell and UI stuff.[/b]


no, no, no. I don't need a new teletubbies Windows like XP :no: :no:


You are confusing the theme with the actual UI. I didn't say we'll bring back Luna. :P Just good looking productive customizable design. Like Classic Shell offers.

Impossible to run NT6 without third party fixes.


#655
JorgeA

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..people who did the UI of products like Windows 2000 and XP are brought in for doing the shell and UI stuff.[/b]


no, no, no. I don't need a new teletubbies Windows like XP :no: :no:

LOL

Things got much nicer for me when I discovered the "silver" theme for XP. Looks pretty snazzy. (And with any different desktop wallpaper.)

The only remaining Fisher-Price element is that bright red, square X button for closing windows.

--JorgeA

#656
JorgeA

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it stands to reason that CEIP on consumer versions of Vista and 7 would also bounce off any working outbound firewall. Therefore, the already small and questionable CEIP sample used to kill the 17 year-old Start Menu consists of: ... users that are so bright that they voluntarily opted-in AND also actively added the CEIP to the firewall whitelist. ... and/or ... users that were NOT bright enough to opt-out of the CEIP program AND are happily running with no outbound blocking whatsoever. On instinct, I gotta go with the latter dominating the sample here.

Looks to me like we have here a classic case of GIGO. The "GO" part being Windows 8...

Yesterday I was struck by yet another annoying aspect of the flattened Win8 look. I wanted to scroll up and down a window, and -- I couldn't find the scrollbar!! Took me a while to realize that they'd made the scrollbar so faint that I could hardly see it!

So, what -- are the MS geniuses going to tell me that their "telemetry" suggested that people don't scroll up and down in their windows much anymore, so that it was OK to deprecate the scrollbar?! :angrym:

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 12 July 2012 - 10:57 AM.


#657
jaclaz

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So, what -- are the MS geniuses going to tell me that their "telemetry" suggested that people don't scroll up and down in their windows much anymore, so that it was OK to deprecate the scrollbar?! :angrym:

Sure they don't. (I mean people actually runnning the telemetry :ph34r: )
They tend to get to a web site and read the title, and possibly the incipit of an article, at this point all their neurons are already busy with the overflow of information contained in a few sentences and they click away to some other site, while senselessly twitting a random thought about the news they didn't actually read, let alone understood.

jaclaz

#658
MagicAndre1981

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You are confusing the theme with the actual UI.


I also never liked the GUI. The Vista Explorer is faster for me. But this is my personal taste.
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#659
xpclient

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There's the legal option if are in the US. You can sue Microsoft claiming they are selling an OS as an upgrade which removes features and with the help of their OEM and hardware partners like Intel, eventually it or its derivatives will be forced on you as older versions run out of compatible hardware drivers. So you would be paying for the OS and lose essential features, and you can't stay forever on the older OS which won't work any more when your old PC hardware breaks down and you are unable to put the older OS on the new hardware even if you are perfectly happy with it. If I was in the US, I would have sued Microsoft for Vista or Windows 7 itself removing a boatload of features instead of keeping them as options and forcefully obsoleting older versions from the retail and OEM channel and from the entire ecosystem by working with partners and not developing drivers for it.

It all depends on US law. I don't know anything about laws in the US, you could consult a lawyer and ask him if there is a provision in the law to protect consumers / end users from companies who reduce the usefulness of products by stripping features and then with the help of the planned obsolescence business model of its partners, the corporation forces the new products with reduced utility, reduced features on you - these features were actively deleted despite strong feedback (case in point: Start Menu). A single person certainly wouldn't dare to sue a big corporation like Microsoft for the fear of losing against them but then it all depends on how strongly you feel about it and how much you care about "doing the right thing". I mean someone has to take the first step to fight against this corporation who's expecting money and giving less in return in the "upgrade". I wouldn't certainly instigate anyone to sue them if they are going to end up losing a lot of money (again it's a matter of knowing the US law well before you proceed). And even if one does sue them, he or she and his lawyer has to be well-versed first with what features were exactly removed to convince the court that is a significant reduction in functionality.

If you are serious about filing a lawsuit, make sure you do all the homework first and use your own discretion to decide and understand all the consequences of this lawsuit (ask your lawyer this). You can keep in mind that you are fighting for the right thing, the only expectation from Microsoft in case of users like you and me is that they don't destroy all the existing system they have built with advanced features that you have a business or personal need for. To build something new, they actively delete these right in the next release, that's not the right approach because end users invest a lot in their platform. Another thing to note is that with Windows 8 in particular, Microsoft is well aware of the fact that there can be lawsuits (haven't you heart Ballmer say "Windows 8 is the company's riskiest bet"?). So it anticipates lawsuits and is therefore going to put a clause in the End User License Agreement of Windows 8's RTM build that if you accept the license agreement, you can't file a class action lawsuit against them. Read this article for more details: http://www.forbes.co...inst-microsoft/ One can still bring the dispute in small claims court but not a class action lawsuit.

You could argue in court that if the case was that we could continue using older versions of Windows permanently and happily, then there would been no need to sue. However there are two major reasons we cannot keep running older versions of Windows permanently.

1. Lack of security updates after a certain date: While it is normal for companies to not support their products forever, and no one is saying that
Microsoft hasn't supporting older versions of Windows long enough, there is no reasonable replacement for many features older versions of Windows in newer OS. Microsoft has monopolized the operating system market since the early 90s and Linux is an underdeveloped OS with a bad user experience. Apple is far worse than Microsoft, they have even shorter lifecycles and they remove features you start using from their products even more rapidly. Once security updates stop, your computer is likely to be infected by malware and you certainly don't want malware affecting your valuable data. I personally would even use and learn Linux than getting infected by malware. Because the situation is so concerning and is rather unique in this case of technology, you could appeal to the court that Microsoft should not remove features because customers are forced to migrate after a set date to its newer iteration. In any other industry, such a situation doesn't arise. Even if your car gets 50 years old, you can keep running it, the fuel your car runs on won't combust or get incompatible with your car. And you will still be allowed to drive the old car on the road.

2. Lack of driver availability on newer hardware: The argument would be the same as above - because no system provides the functionality of older versions of Windows and you invested in it, even if you have a retail license of older versions of Windows, you can't continue using it permanently because on newer hardware, Microsoft's partners won't deliver drivers for the older OS. Virtualization is not an option for graphics intensive applications like games and 3D rendering apps. So in effect, Microsoft is expecting users to pay them $$$ in return for an OS that removes the system features you need and you use. This is plain cheating.

The result of such a lawsuit may be that even if one loses the case, this shakes up matters at Microsoft and they get serious and they change their policies and start giving special attention to such regressions in functionality. They would certainly care about someone else suing them for the same accusation again and would try to avoid removing features.

Impossible to run NT6 without third party fixes.


#660
Kelsenellenelvian

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I have read that MS's eula for win8 has clauses in it that prevent just that kind of lawsuit.

From what I understood it's "If you use it and buy it, you get what you asked for" kind of thing.

#661
JorgeA

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So it anticipates lawsuits and is therefore going to put a clause in the End User License Agreement of Windows 8's RTM build that if you accept the license agreement, you can't file a class action lawsuit against them. Read this article for more details: http://www.forbes.co...inst-microsoft/ One can still bring the dispute in small claims court but not a class action lawsuit.

Good, this gives me another cannonball to use next time I get into a discussion with a PC salesman over Windows 8. In addition to recounting all the annoyances of the new UI and all the things it's lacking, I can tell him that it's outrageous that I should give up my right to sue MS in conjunction with others even after I paid them money for their OS.

OTOH, this new EULA clause is quite the devilish ploy -- you can participate in a class-action lawsuit sue them only if you haven't used the software, which allows them to claim that you can't possibly have been harmed since you haven't even bought the merchandise. They can also dredge up the tired argument, "how can you say that the release version of Windows 8 is so bad, if you haven't even tried it?" :rolleyes:

--JorgeA

#662
Fredledingue

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I don't think anyone will risk a lawsuit which is likely to be lost if such reasons are invoked by a physical person.

However I'm positive that companies will sue Microsoft over W8. (And fire the IT guy who made the mistake to install this unusable OS)
Because companies have other types of contracts, and Microsoft has other responsabilities.
It's almost assumed that businesses will never install W8, that they already have choosen not to do so, but some businesses will still have W8 installed on some machine for some reasons (incompetance, ingorance of the fact that Metro cannot be disabled {theoricaly}, computers coming with it preinstalled etc). While most of businesses will not sue Microsoft because they will not use W8 on any of their machines, there will always be a few hundreds (or thousands) who will have to cope with the Windows 8 nightmare and immediately sue Microsoft if they don't get W7 freely installed instead or a refund.

You can't run a business an have a Mickey Mouse start screen full of crap and commercials on your computer. Yet Microsoft will have to provide a professional OS one day or another, just to get up to date with the W8 core files improvements.
IMO Microsoft will be obliged to release a "pro" version of W8 which will run without Metro (or with Metro rendered optionable) at some point. Perhaps a few months or weeks after the "Kindergarten" release.
If they don't they will be flooded with lawsuits, refund requests, helpdesk complains and bad press.

The world is not going to stay iddle in the face of it. MS already shaked a big olive tree. There are already a phenomenal reaction to it. (first hacks to disable Metro went online within days)
Everybody from hardware manufacturers to individuals already feel unconfortable about it. No Metro will not be enforced on us that smoothly.

how can you say that the release version of Windows 8 is so bad, if you haven't even tried it?"

What??! A snapshot of Metro suffices! ;)

Edited by Fredledingue, 13 July 2012 - 10:46 AM.

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#663
jaclaz

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Hmmm. :unsure:
From:
http://www.supremeco...0pdf/09-893.pdf

What rational lawyer would have signed on to represent the Concepcions in litigation for the possibility of fees stemming from a $30.22 claim? See, e.g., Carnegie v. Household Int’l, Inc., 376 F. 3d 656, 661 (CA7 2004) (“The realistic alternative to a class action is not 17 million individual suits, but zero individual suits, as only a luna­tic or a fanatic sues for $30”).


I would guess that IF some 17 million indivduals get really angry :realmad: against MS, no matter if they will receive or not any indemnification :w00t: and whether they will be allowed a class-action arbitration or litigation :ph34r: , MS will have it's share of issues.... :whistle:

jaclaz

#664
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Things got much nicer for me when I discovered the "silver" theme for XP. Looks pretty snazzy. (And with any different desktop wallpaper.)

The only remaining Fisher-Price element is that bright red, square X button for closing windows.

I find myself most often using the MCE derived variations: Royale, Royale Noir, Royale Remixed which are available everywhere. They're kinda basic and simple.

(EDIT: referring to the msstyles from the themes naturally!) Of course the UxTheme.dll should be patched first.

Looks to me like we have here a classic case of GIGO. The "GO" part being Windows 8...

Posted Image Garbage In --> Garbage Out

questionable Telemetry In --> Metro Out

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 13 July 2012 - 12:37 PM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#665
JorgeA

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Another right-on-the-money commentary on Windows 8 and the Metro interface. Scroll down to the long paragraph replying to the moderator:

I think it looks like its an app written for Windows 1.0. There is so much white background that it makes it hard to navigate. A good ui uses color and textures to create a natural point of reference (i.e. immediately know where the menu bar, settings etc. are).

[emphasis added]

Aero was just becoming mature as a UI and looking really great and I don't understand why it was abandoned. My problem is probably not so much with the applications themselves as it is with the UI.

--JorgeA

#666
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There is so much white background that it makes it hard to navigate

Someone should let the MS Office team know because it seems fairly obvious to everyone but them.

It's pretty darn amazing how MS went from great to complete and utter sh*t in one year. Win8 (Metro, forced tablet UI on desktops, etc). VS2012 (dropping backwards compatibility, being last in C++11 feature support, almost nothing new for .NET devs, etc). MS Office going white-on-white while failing to provide much of a reason to upgrade (and mostly failing on tablets, dropping support for Vista and XP, etc). It also looks like they'll have some legal trouble in the EU. The only product they haven't managed to mess up yet is SQL Server seemingly (2012 is very nice)

Meanwhile, the main WP8 OEM will have spent half of its current cash reserves by year end (they've lost €1.41 billion last quarter) because their phones don't sell. Some even think it's time for them to call it quits. Their shares went down 84% since they switched to Windows Phone and they're laying off 10 000 people now. And with the iPhone 5 coming out this fall...

Time for some new management already.
Coffee: \ˈkȯ-fē, ˈkä-\. noun. Heaven in a cup. Life's only treasure. The meaning of life. Kaffee ist wunderbar. C8H10N4O2 FTW.

#667
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It's pretty darn amazing how MS went from great to complete and utter sh*t in one year. Win8 (Metro, forced tablet UI on desktops, etc). VS2012 (dropping backwards compatibility, being last in C++11 feature support, almost nothing new for .NET devs, etc). MS Office going white-on-white while failing to provide much of a reason to upgrade (and mostly failing on tablets, dropping support for Vista and XP, etc). It also looks like they'll have some legal trouble in the EU.

All good links! This caught my eye in the Office 2013 article:

Having the real Office applications and their perfect support for Office documents is valuable—but this needs to be married to simpler interfaces that are engineered around reading and light editing, and that remove entire features and user interfaces that are too complex for finger usage.

The writer says that Office 2013 is not adapted well enough for touch, and that's a fair point. Trouble is, adapting it better for touch would mean either hiding or removing visible onscreen features (commands/menus), if not also making the content elements (individual words in a Word document; cells in an Excel spreadsheet) bigger for easier selection by finger, thus leaving less information on the screen and requiring more scrolling. Any of these changes would of course make the software that much less useful for serious purposes. So Microsoft is stuck between a rock and a hard place... a predicament of their own creation.

It's pretty darn amazing how MS went from great to complete and utter sh*t in one year. Win8 (Metro, forced tablet UI on desktops, etc). VS2012 (dropping backwards compatibility, being last in C++11 feature support, almost nothing new for .NET devs, etc).

Incredible. :no:

Some posts back we had talked about the dangers of relying increasingly on cloud services, such as those MS is pushing with Win8, to store files and data. Here's a cautionary tale.

--JorgeA

#668
JorgeA

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@xpclient

The discussion over at AVS Forum has turned decidedly against Windows 8, with basically one guy trying to fend off all the people objecting to various aspects of the new OS.

Here's the funniest recent comment:

If Microsoft made cars (god forbid) and introduced a new model that was sleek and new but was missing the steering wheel, you guys would say just clamp a pair of vice grips on the steering column and quit complaining.

:thumbup

--JorgeA

#669
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Trouble is, adapting it better for touch would mean either hiding or removing visible onscreen features (commands/menus), if not also making the content elements (individual words in a Word document; cells in an Excel spreadsheet) bigger for easier selection by finger, thus leaving less information on the screen and requiring more scrolling. Any of these changes would of course make the software that much less useful for serious purposes.

i.e. it needs a different interface for touch/tablet usage than it does for desktop/laptop usage. Someone should let Ballmer and Sinosfky know...

Incredible. :no:

Even the Xbox360 is turning into a product I'm not sure I want of. They're metro-izing the interface (I prefer the other console's menus), they've added ads to the dashboard (yep, you bought an ad delivery system), and you also need to pay $10/month for the privilege of online gaming or even just to be able to use Netflix's services (while their competitor's consoles don't charge anything for any of that) . There's really only a couple Xbox exclusive games that could possibly attract me (Halo and Gears of War) whereas every other console has so much more. The PS3 has Killzone, Metal Gear Solid, God of War, Uncharted, InFamous, Gran Turismo, LittleBigPlanet, Resistance, etc (and it plays BluRay discs too) and the Wii has all the fun Mario/Zelda/Kirby/Donkey Kong/Metroid/etc games. Microsoft was also the one company that had the least exciting stuff revealed during E3.

Some posts back we had talked about the dangers of relying increasingly on cloud services, such as those MS is pushing with Win8, to store files and data. Here's a cautionary tale.

MS is basically the last company I'd trust my data with. Their online services have always been crappy too.
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#670
xpclient

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@xpclient

The discussion over at AVS Forum has turned decidedly against Windows 8, with basically one guy trying to fend off all the people objecting to various aspects of the new OS.

Here's the funniest recent comment:

If Microsoft made cars (god forbid) and introduced a new model that was sleek and new but was missing the steering wheel, you guys would say just clamp a pair of vice grips on the steering column and quit complaining.

:thumbup

--JorgeA



Good that more and more people are realizing that MS is cheating them with Windows 8 by dumping features and replacing them with half-baked "improved" ones. What a coincidence I made a similar car analogy on TechNet. Thank god that MS doesn't make cars, or they would remove, dumb down or "simplify" core components because of telemetry or whatever and decisions lacking common sense and by the time the driver discovers his car is missing components, he would meet with an accident.:D

Edited by xpclient, 21 July 2012 - 01:19 AM.

Impossible to run NT6 without third party fixes.


#671
jaclaz

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Personally I would NOT take the car market as very good example of either "intelligent" or "customer driven" or "good" (in the sense of "good for the customer" or "giving freedom to the customer") "marketing strategies".

I will cite myself :w00t:
http://www.911cd.net...pic=20983&st=37

It's just like some cars, you cannot get electric external mirrors by themselves, you need to buy also electrically heated seats because some smart guy in the marketing thought making a "package" of the two items to be a clever idea , which probably is, in Sweden or Norway, but, I assure you, scarcely so in southern Italy or Spain.

The only BIG difference is that on the example car, after you have unneededly payed money for a feature that you will never use, you get for your wasted money AT LEAST a §@ç#ing switch, so that you can keep the "feature" TURNED OFF! :rolleyes:

jaclaz

#672
dencorso

dencorso

    Iuvat plus qui nihil obstat

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BTW, did any of you all notice the deja vu in the new logo? :P

Attached File  200px-Windows_1.0_logo.svg.png   6.71KB   3 downloads >===> Attached File  200px-Windows_8_Logo.png   4.25KB   3 downloads



#673
JorgeA

JorgeA

    FORMAT B: /V /S

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The only BIG difference is that on the example car, after you have unneededly payed money for a feature that you will never use, you get for your wasted money AT LEAST a §@ç#ing switch, so that you can keep the "feature" TURNED OFF! :rolleyes:

LOL

The automotive analogy to Windows goes back a long way. I remember back in, what, 1995/96, during the antitrust litigation over IE vs. Netscape, Bill Gates testified that the browser was an integral part of the OS, and that splitting it from the OS was like taking the engine out of the car. I thought at the time (and would be surprised if somebody didn't say), that the browser was actually more like the car radio -- something to receive information from the rest of the world while the machine (the car, the OS) is going. So, to me, Bill was saying that he had designed a car that wouldn't run if you took out the radio... :huh:

--JorgeA

#674
JorgeA

JorgeA

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BTW, did any of you all notice the deja vu in the new logo? :P

Hey dencorso, :hello:

Great find! As several of us have pointed out in the Win8 threads, the Windows 8 UI is in some important ways a throwback to primitive versions of Windows with the tiles, the lack of multiple-window functionality, and the flat 2D look.

The logo selection seems to lend official weight to that view -- far from constituting an advancement, Windows 8 is a regression! ;)

--JorgeA

#675
MagicAndre1981

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    after Windows 7 GA still Vista lover :)

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MS Office going white-on-white while failing to provide much of a reason to upgrade (and mostly failing on tablets, dropping support for Vista and XP, etc).


1 note becasue I read Office 2013 here. MS also censors here. I tried to get a key for the 2013 Pro from Technet Eval page and my email accounts where blocked. I had to use a new email. So MS now blocks users who have different opinions to test the preview builds :no:
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