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Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions


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#926
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Another Headline from an Alternate Universe ...

Intel: 80 percent of PC users prefer touch screens ( NeoWin 2012-09-11 )

One might assume that the person was either talking only about phones and tablets or that he was smoking dope. The only clue given ...

"Intel said today that, according to their own tests, 80 percent of PC users prefer touchscreens over other controls when doing everyday tasks such as surfing the Internet. Intel conducts interviews of 220,000 people a year."



A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 12 September 2012 - 03:01 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...



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#927
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Information is the UI in Windows 8, says design guru. How to make sense of the desktop formerly-known-as-Metro ( UK Register 2012-09-12 )

"“A consistent UI and place for people to look for search, share and settings means users don't have to need to learn a new UI for each app,” Morris explained..."


So Microsoft had so much free time on their hands they felt it necessary not just to changes the appearance of their software, but want to alter the visual presentation of everyone's software. Once again we see the thought process: "don't have to need to learn a new UI for each app", as if we were screaming for them to save us from those mean and terrible 3rd party developers confusing us with their custom and signature interfaces. And people call Apple arrogant. How about this, stop fixing stuff that ain't broken, and start fixing the countless bugs in Windows.

Good comments over there.

"The flaw is in the very words "information people need to consume"

"information people need to consume". Computers are not devices to "consume" information only. Computer are devices to "produce" information. A book - a device to consume information - has a very different UI compared to the tools needed to produce that information. Unluckily the browser and the web made too many think the main task is "consume", forgetting for many is "produce". The whole "consumer" idea is bringing IT back - after all they want to morph the power PC into a TV set (the "information consumer" device by definition), just smart enough to take away more money from the "consumer" pockets. Those bad people who want to create information outside the big companies control must be kept away, and new users have to understand they are designed to be consumers, not producers."



Funny too ...

"Just wondering .....

"The author travelled to TechEd, ate and slept, as a guest of Microsoft."

When he woke up, were there two small puncture wounds on his neck?"


:lol:

I like it when developers are creative. That's our right. Stay out of our business. I'll bet Microsoft must just hate these guys ...

Spoiler


EDIT: updated image URLs, and again

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 06 May 2013 - 07:10 PM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#928
jaclaz

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The only clue given ...

"Intel said today that, according to their own tests, 80 percent of PC users prefer touchscreens over other controls when doing everyday tasks such as surfing the Internet. Intel conducts interviews of 220,000 people a year."


This confirms my theory, if the idea of everyday task (which in my perverted mind is - or should be - mainly to §@ç#ing WORK ) is "surfing the Internet" :w00t: , the humanity is doomed :(.

Dictionary, meaning #1 or #3:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/task

task
n.
1. A piece of work assigned or done as part of one's duties.
2. A difficult or tedious undertaking.
3. A function to be performed; an objective.



http://www.thefreedictionary.com/work

work
n.
1. Physical or mental effort or activity directed toward the production or accomplishment of something.


can anyone spot the difference with:
http://www.thefreedi...ary.com/leisure

lei·sure
n.
Freedom from time-consuming duties, responsibilities, or activities.



jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 12 September 2012 - 03:38 AM.


#929
JorgeA

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"“A consistent UI and place for people to look for search, share and settings means users don't have to need to learn a new UI for each app,” Morris explained..."


Umm... isn't that what they told us when they phased out DOS in favor of Windows -- that it would present a "consistent" interface from one program to the next?

And, how long before "app" developers break through the intended sameness of look in the-interface-formerly-known-as-Metro? (Thereby zapping this particular rationale for it.)

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" -- Jorge Santayana. (Yes, he did have my same first name!)

--JorgeA

#930
JorgeA

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The only clue given ...

"Intel said today that, according to their own tests, 80 percent of PC users prefer touchscreens over other controls when doing everyday tasks such as surfing the Internet. Intel conducts interviews of 220,000 people a year."


Sample bias: I suggest that people who use their PCs to create things and do actual work, are too busy to participate in a stupid survey.

--JorgeA

P.S. and totally OT: Cool that here we just managed to nest a quote within a quote within a quote...

#931
JorgeA

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Windows 8 skyrocketed to 0.23% in OS market share last month, from 0.20% in July.

At a similar stage in its development, Windows 7 already commanded a 1.18% share, despite the physical and psychological hurdles involved in obtaining an OS that didn't come installed with users' PCs.

We can argue over the meaning of these figures, but one thing seems clear: there's been no stampede toward Win8 during its free phase, despite claims for its being the best thing since sliced bread.

--JorgeA

LOL, nice find Jorge! In fact I'd wager that 0.23% is within the margin of error of measurement of something as complex as OS adoption and market-share, so it could well be flat or even in decline...

Thanks hoak. We've been monitoring the growth of Windows 8 usage since the DP. I hadn't thought of this, but you're right that the stats could well be margin-of-error and the real usage is even less.

My own anecdotal observations are that serious desktop/workstation Users while curious about Windows 8, and probably the most capable of actually getting alone with it; are the least likely to see any value or appeal, are indifferent or would rather use a more mature and robust OS. Tech Fashion Weenies, that are typically attracted to flashy passive consumption media toys who gush over every novel thing have some of the worst reactions after actually putting up with Windows 8 for any length of time.

Oh, very interesting about the tech fashion weenies. That'll be a hoot if the fab raves over at Neowin actually die out once the OS hits store shelves.

It's going to be really interesting to see how this trends; if Microsoft's massive investment in 'focus group think' and market research is going to pay off or fall flat. My gut tells me that Microsoft is no different then a many other big companies where everyone wants to defer to 'committee decisions' as no one is ultimately wants to be accountable. This is a problem only getting worse in a lot of big U.S. companies as the economy worsens, and people fear for their jobs.

That there appears to be some egregious structural and functional design gaffs in Windows 8 and Server 2012 only makes the whole story more interesting as it unfolds...

:blink:

Good point. Even in good times, the #1 rule of survival in a bureaucratic setting is not to stand out, thus when a product fails "mistakes were made" and no one in particular is responsible for them. Hence the Edsel, New Coke, and Microsoft Bob, plus how many other flops that nobody remembers -- because they flopped.

Like you, I'm really curious to see how the market's reception of Win8 unfolds over time.

--JorgeA

#932
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Another Headline from an Alternate Universe ...

Intel: 80 percent of PC users prefer touch screens ( NeoWin 2012-09-11 )

By pushing touch and the Win8 interface that supports it, Intel may be helping to dig its own grave. In Windows Weekly 271, Paul Thurrott predicts that

PAUL: We may look back in two years, and we will be in an ARM world. You know, I really do think that this is a ---

LEO: Oh, Intel's not going to give up without a fight.

PAUL: No no, it's not about giving up, it's just about where things are going. Actually -- OK, maybe I should change that a little bit: I think the Intel SOC stuff will still be a big deal, but I really do feel like, what Microsoft wants to do is cut off a lot of this legacy stuff, and basically start over, and that RT is that clean, fresh new car smell thing that they want.

(If you want to hear it yourself, the relevant portion begins at 1:38:12.)

So, putting Thurrott's declarations together, "the desktop must die" and the Metro-faced PCs we use will be running on ARM.

What will that mean for gaming, CAD, video and photo editors, financial analysts, and anybody else whose work and interests require the use of high-powered machines?

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 12 September 2012 - 11:20 PM.


#933
xpclient

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Here's an interesting article I came across that gives an overview of how the idiots designed Windows 8: Windows 8: The Boldest, Biggest Redesign In Microsoft's History Their only goal is to keep the company "relevant" against Apple, with no consideration for doing the right thing. :angry: It also reinforces my belief that a few idiots at Microsoft - Ballmer, Sinofsky, Julie Larson Green, Sam Moreau and a bunch of clueless UX people are responsible for the utter destruction of Windows. May these people not go to heaven when they die for torturing souls on earth. :realmad:

And here's another one (albeit an year older): Meet The People Behind Microsoft's Last-Ditch Effort To Save Windows that's a testimony to Steven Sinofsky's arrogance. As the article says Gates once allegedly said "We can't tell Steven what to do." Posted Image

And here's a third article that couldn't be more wrong: The iPhone 5 forecast: a predictable 73 degrees and sunny that actually slams iPhone 5 for making incremental improvements and not making stupid radical and bold gimmicky changes for no reason and which yield nothing but frustration and lost features. He also lives in parallel world where he thinks Vista failed for not making bold changes. :wacko:

Edited by xpclient, 13 September 2012 - 11:49 AM.

Impossible to run NT6 without third party fixes.


#934
jaclaz

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Here's an interesting article I came across that gives an overview of how the idiots designed Windows 8:

Nice.
Final words of the supposedlòy "main designer" Sam Moreau:

In late March, I spoke with Moreau about this legacy on a visit to Soho House, a pricey, members-only club in Manhattan’s meatpacking district. In the fifth-floor library, framed by elements he banished from Windows--leather-bound books, wood paneling--I asked him whether Windows would ever be free of all the cobwebs.

"I have no idea," he says, swirling the ice in his glass. "We haven’t even started thinking about what’s after this. It’s enough just to build this thing." He adds, "It’s true that people don’t like change. But we don’t do things frivolously. I don’t want someone to be frustrated or mad--that hurts my heart."

Accurate planning ahead. :thumbup

I am thinking about all the poor Bauhaus artists and designers and architects that had their (good) work cited as inspiration for the Nameless Crap Interface :ph34r: , that really hurts my heart :(.

jaclaz

#935
CharlotteTheHarlot

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The only clue given ...

"Intel said today that, according to their own tests, 80 percent of PC users prefer touchscreens over other controls when doing everyday tasks such as surfing the Internet. Intel conducts interviews of 220,000 people a year."


P.S. and totally OT: Cool that here we just managed to nest a quote within a quote within a quote...

You know I had no choice but to quote that to see how far the rabbit hole goes. :lol:


----------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: chopped the blank lines. I like symmetry. :yes:

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 13 September 2012 - 09:24 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#936
jaclaz

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You know I had no choice but to quote that to see how far the rabbit hole goes. :lol:


But don't overdo it :ph34r: , JFYI, last time we had some fun with quote pyramids:
http://www.urbandict...m=Quote Pyramid
the Admin of the (other) Board disabled them :(
Spoiler


jaclaz

#937
hoak

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So, putting Thurrott's declarations together, "the desktop must die" and the Metro-faced PCs we use will be running on ARM.

What will that mean for gaming, CAD, video and photo editors, financial analysts, and anybody else whose work and interests require the use of high-powered machines?

Well obviously not today but the theory is sound; ARM architecture can scale just fine to meet high-power computing requirements, and some software Developer/Publishers might like the idea of a 'reboot' on a new platform, with DRM and a walled garden that works and offers at least the promise of more profitability. However when you factor in that it will be Microsoft's DRM, Microsoft's walled garden, and Microsoft's dysfunctional Metro/Modern/NCI (where did NCI come from?) interface -- it's difficult to understand how any Developer/Publisher without a twenty year contract with Microsoft could find this any more appealing then any rational Consumer that's functioning above the neck...

:unsure:

#938
CharlotteTheHarlot

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You know I had no choice but to quote that to see how far the rabbit hole goes. :lol:


But don't overdo it :ph34r: , JFYI, last time we had some fun with quote pyramids:
http://www.urbandict...m=Quote Pyramid
the Admin of the (other) Board disabled them :(
Spoiler


jaclaz

Yeah, you're right. :thumbup Don't want to kill page load performance either.

P.S. That 911cd link is dead? Or was that the point? I did try it with the http and not hxxp. :yes:

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#939
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Yesterday was the one year anniversary of the Windows 8 Developer's Preview ( which expires on January 15, 2013. ).

Windows 8 Developer Preview launched one year ago today ( NeoWin 2012-09-13 )

Which makes it hysterically funny that Microsoft is still fumbling the Metro naming fiasco. It is utterly astounding that they snoozed along for at least a year, probably closer to three, never bothering to check the legal viability of the name.

After Metro: Windows Store Apps and Modern Apps ( NeoWin 2012-09-13 )

Just try to make sense out of this gibberish ( it appears to be NeoWin paraphrasing, not direct quotes ). Warning: move your beverage away from your screen and keyboard ...

Thanks to an interview Neowin conducted today with Soma Somasegar, we now have better clarity into how to properly distinguish between Modern Apps and Windows Store Apps.

In short, Modern Apps is a high level look at applications and does not refer to a single application but is the shell that some Windows Store apps reside. Modern App refers to how an application works and by Soma's definition, any application that spans multiple platforms (Windows 8 and Azure or Windows Phone and Azure, or Windows Phone and Windows 8) is considered a modern application. An application that only runs inside Windows 8's new Start screen, is considered a Windows Store App.

A Windows Store App is not necessarily a Modern App, an example of this would be any application that is standalone, such as Escapa. Escapa would be considered a Windows Store App, but not a modern App because it stands alone and does not depend on any other service to operate. If Escapa added functionality to have cross platform gaming, then it would be a Modern App too. Essentially, a Windows Store App can also be a Modern App too but not all Windows Store Apps are Modern Apps.

As Microsoft works to removed Metro from search engine results, they will replace it with Windows Store Apps and Modern Apps. Always remember that a Modern App is an app that spans Microsoft's ecosystems and Windows Store Apps are specific to the Windows Store.



Got that? Didn't think so! Posted Image I doubt that even IBM could have made a more tangled mess.

Microsoft Windows 8 : Metro ( Call it what you want, we got nuthin! )


... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#940
jaclaz

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P.S. That 911cd link is dead? Or was that the point? I did try it with the http and not hxxp. :yes:

Naah, it works allright here, maybe a glitch in the matrix? :unsure: (I also checked, it needs not to be logged in)
OOPS my bad, had it cached, you are right it's in a "members only" section. :blushing:

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 14 September 2012 - 03:28 AM.


#941
jaclaz

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Got that? Didn't think so! Posted Image I doubt that even IBM could have made a more tangled mess.


It's crystal clear to me. :yes:

Most probably because I use carpenter's comparisons. :unsure:

In short Leroy Merlin (EU ) or Ace or Guardian (US) it 's not a single product. :no:
It is not either a common hardware/construction materials store.
It's more like a "state of mind", you go there and you find many tools, the shop is nicely organized in departments, there is one for Tools and one for Power Tools.
As an example a sledgehammer is simply a Leroy Merlin Sledgehammer, more generally a Leroy Merlin Tool.
A Sledgehammer is a Leroy Merlin Tool, but NOT a Leroy Merlin Power Tool, as it is too d@mn simple to use, needs no electricity, nor any other accessory.
A Pneumatic Hammer is also a Leroy Merlin Tool, and ALSO a Leroy Merlin Power Tool, since it can break more easily, needs a compressor (and electricity to run it) and maintenance.
All kind of hammers are Leroy Merlin Tools, and some Leroy Merlin Tools can also be Leroy Merlin Power Tools, but not all Leroy Merlin Tools are Leroy Merlin Power Tools.


Back to the Apps, it's easy:
Can it break/malfunction?
If Yes it's Windows. (If No, it's DOS ;))

If you replied Yes to the above:
Can it break/malfunction, be ugly and more diifcult to use?
If Yes it's Windows 8 Windows Store App.

If you replied Yes to the above:
Can it break/malfunction, be ugly, more difficult to use, linked senselessly to different services/environments AND will actually break?
If Yes, it's Windows 8 Windows Modern App

jaclaz

#942
Tripredacus

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If you replied Yes to the above:
Can it break/malfunction, be ugly and more diifcult to use?
If Yes it's Windows 8 Windows Store App.

If you replied Yes to the above:
Can it break/malfunction, be ugly, more difficult to use, linked senselessly to different services/environments AND will actually break?
If Yes, it's Windows 8 Windows Modern App

jaclaz


I think the general idea can be made simpler.

Can it only break/malfunction on Windows 8?
If yes it's a Windows 8 Store App.

Can it break/malfunction on all versions of Windows?
If yes, it's a Windows 8 Modern App.

:lol:
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#943
jaclaz

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I think the general idea can be made simpler.

NO. :no:
You missed the "essence", besides breaking, the App MUST be ugly and less convenient/more difficult to use (being senselessly linked to heaps of unneeded services/dependencies/subsytems/whatever is instead optional).

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 14 September 2012 - 06:42 AM.


#944
hoak

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Yesterday was the one year anniversary of the Windows 8 Developer's Preview ( which expires on January 15, 2013. ).

Windows 8 Developer Preview launched one year ago today ( NeoWin 2012-09-13 )

Which makes it hysterically funny that Microsoft is still fumbling the Metro naming fiasco. It is utterly astounding that they snoozed along for at least a year, probably closer to three, never bothering to check the legal viability of the name.

After Metro: Windows Store Apps and Modern Apps ( NeoWin 2012-09-13 )

Just try to make sense out of this gibberish ( it appears to be NeoWin paraphrasing, not direct quotes ). Warning: move your beverage away from your screen and keyboard ...

Thanks to an interview Neowin conducted today with Soma Somasegar, we now have better clarity into how to properly distinguish between Modern Apps and Windows Store Apps.

In short, Modern Apps is a high level look at applications and does not refer to a single application but is the shell that some Windows Store apps reside. Modern App refers to how an application works and by Soma's definition, any application that spans multiple platforms (Windows 8 and Azure or Windows Phone and Azure, or Windows Phone and Windows 8) is considered a modern application. An application that only runs inside Windows 8's new Start screen, is considered a Windows Store App.

A Windows Store App is not necessarily a Modern App, an example of this would be any application that is standalone, such as Escapa. Escapa would be considered a Windows Store App, but not a modern App because it stands alone and does not depend on any other service to operate. If Escapa added functionality to have cross platform gaming, then it would be a Modern App too. Essentially, a Windows Store App can also be a Modern App too but not all Windows Store Apps are Modern Apps.

As Microsoft works to removed Metro from search engine results, they will replace it with Windows Store Apps and Modern Apps. Always remember that a Modern App is an app that spans Microsoft's ecosystems and Windows Store Apps are specific to the Windows Store.



Got that? Didn't think so! Posted Image I doubt that even IBM could have made a more tangled mess.

Microsoft Windows 8 : Metro ( Call it what you want, we got nuthin! )

LOL OMG WHAT?! That actually is more convoluted then language in an IBM APAR! I would love it if Microsoft actually tried to use language like this in a television spot, kind of like Kafka meets Escher in OS ad copy writing -- it would be perfect! Metro... What is it? Surreal!

:)

Edited by hoak, 14 September 2012 - 08:57 AM.


#945
JorgeA

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You know I had no choice but to quote that to see how far the rabbit hole goes. :lol:

In light of jaclaz's experience, I'll resist the temptation to go deeper! :D

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 14 September 2012 - 04:19 PM.


#946
JorgeA

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So, putting Thurrott's declarations together, "the desktop must die" and the Metro-faced PCs we use will be running on ARM.

What will that mean for gaming, CAD, video and photo editors, financial analysts, and anybody else whose work and interests require the use of high-powered machines?

Well obviously not today but the theory is sound; ARM architecture can scale just fine to meet high-power computing requirements, and some software Developer/Publishers might like the idea of a 'reboot' on a new platform, with DRM and a walled garden that works and offers at least the promise of more profitability. However when you factor in that it will be Microsoft's DRM, Microsoft's walled garden, and Microsoft's dysfunctional Metro/Modern/NCI (where did NCI come from?) interface -- it's difficult to understand how any Developer/Publisher without a twenty year contract with Microsoft could find this any more appealing then any rational Consumer that's functioning above the neck...

:unsure:

Thanks for filling me in on this, hoak.

It's a little reassuring to learn that, if ARM wins the day, we won't necessarily be relegated to using low-power processors.

But what will become of our "legacy" x86 applications as our PCs die and need replacing? At that point, I suspect, we'd be sucked into the Matrix world of pre-approved apps in a Microsoft cocoon, right?

(By way of contrast, AFAIK pretty much any of my post-DOS programs will work on my current PCs if I choose to run them there.)

--JorgeA

P.S.: NCI = Nameless Crap Interface -- jaclaz's designation, devised after MS dropped "Metro" without apparently coming up with a new name that sticks

#947
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Just try to make sense out of this gibberish ( it appears to be NeoWin paraphrasing, not direct quotes ). Warning: move your beverage away from your screen and keyboard ...

Thanks to an interview Neowin conducted today with Soma Somasegar, we now have better clarity into how to properly distinguish between Modern Apps and Windows Store Apps.

In short, Modern Apps is a high level look at applications and does not refer to a single application but is the shell that some Windows Store apps reside. Modern App refers to how an application works and by Soma's definition, any application that spans multiple platforms (Windows 8 and Azure or Windows Phone and Azure, or Windows Phone and Windows 8) is considered a modern application. An application that only runs inside Windows 8's new Start screen, is considered a Windows Store App.

A Windows Store App is not necessarily a Modern App, an example of this would be any application that is standalone, such as Escapa. Escapa would be considered a Windows Store App, but not a modern App because it stands alone and does not depend on any other service to operate. If Escapa added functionality to have cross platform gaming, then it would be a Modern App too. Essentially, a Windows Store App can also be a Modern App too but not all Windows Store Apps are Modern Apps.

As Microsoft works to removed Metro from search engine results, they will replace it with Windows Store Apps and Modern Apps. Always remember that a Modern App is an app that spans Microsoft's ecosystems and Windows Store Apps are specific to the Windows Store.


:blink: :wacko:

#948
JorgeA

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LOL OMG WHAT?! That actually is more convoluted then language in an IBM APAR! I would love it if Microsoft actually tried to use language like this in a television spot, kind of like Kafka meets Escher in OS ad copy writing -- it would be perfect! Metro... What is it? Surreal!

:)

Well, as (I think) Tripredacus pointed out, MS already ran spots for IE9 barely two months before the official introduction of IE10, so they might bite on the suggestion. :)

Picture Abbott and Costello lookalikes trying to explain this in a "Who's on first?" type of routine...

--JorgeA

#949
hoak

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LOL Jorge, someone really should do a spoof with that there's so much good material in Windows 8 for it; the 'Charms Bar' is officially just called 'Charms' so there's the confusion over individual items in the bar or the bar itself, Start, the Start Screen, Metro, Window, Windows, Modern -- the list just goes on and it's more fun then a barrel of biting monkeys (but not much)!

:D

#950
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On other UNrelated news :unsure: :
http://www.metro.co....race-the-future

What else one could say if not ;):

WOW, look a the clear crispness of the new logo, at the accurateness of the spacing, to the way the designer manage to create something entirely new, but still deliver a family feeling. And the choice of colours, astonishing, out of millions of colours that can be displayed on modern screens the choice is so original...
The clear reference to BauHaus, yet avoiding the use of stereotypes, makes clearly this logo a true masterpiece.


Are you serious? Someone actually got paid for this design? :w00t:


jaclaz




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