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Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions


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#951
JorgeA

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On other UNrelated news :unsure: :
http://www.metro.co....race-the-future

What else one could say if not ;):

WOW, look a the clear crispness of the new logo, at the accurateness of the spacing, to the way the designer manage to create something entirely new, but still deliver a family feeling. And the choice of colours, astonishing, out of millions of colours that can be displayed on modern screens the choice is so original...
The clear reference to BauHaus, yet avoiding the use of stereotypes, makes clearly this logo a true masterpiece.


Are you serious? Someone actually got paid for this design? :w00t:


jaclaz

LOL, in the article somebody is quoted as actually saying that the design is "contemporary."

If this is indicative of the design trend, then maybe I can change careers and become a logo designer. :rolleyes:

Which brings up another thing that's been bothering me. Even if I never get Windows 8, or even if I ever do get Windows 8 but manage to avoid the Metro screen -- my eyes will still have to be insulted by that plain ugly Metro look, as more and more websites are adopting it. :angry:

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 16 September 2012 - 09:48 AM.



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#952
JorgeA

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Ars Technica has a lukewarm review of the Win8 "touch" experience on an all-in-one desktop PC:

The big gestures required by some of these games and apps brings to light one of my core complaints about the Windows 8 touch experience on an all-in-one, however: actions that on a tablet or smartphone require a quick flick of a thumb or finger require your entire arm to function on the larger screen, and you’re often holding your arm out in front of you to interact with the screen on your desk, rather than having it in a more comfortable resting position. A game like Fruit Ninja or Cut the Rope—anything that requires repeated, sustained, or frantic interaction with the touchscreen—quickly goes from entertaining time-waster to arm-fatiguing aerobic exercise.


At this point, touch support adds very little to the desktop computing experience. It falls firmly into the "nice to have" category—you certainly can play touch games and interact with touch-enabled applications this way, but for most general computing tasks the keyboard and mouse pairing is still the most efficient way to interface with your PC.


It's conceivable that Win8 touch PCs will be received in the market about as well as 3D TVs: with an "I don't need this" yawn.

--JorgeA

#953
JorgeA

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Another utility to boot directly to the Windows 8 desktop has been devised.

How many of these tweaks and hacks will be needed for MS to take the hint that we don't want to be herded into doing things one particular way?

--JorgeA

#954
CharlotteTheHarlot

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LOL, in the article somebody is quoted as actually saying that the design is "contemporary."

If this is indicative of the design trend, then maybe I can change careers and become a logo designer. :rolleyes:

Yeah, don't bother. It won't make a difference changing careers to help this or any other flailing sector. Rembrandt, Da Vinci, Picasso, or Dali couldn't help them out.

The comments praising this logo or Microsoft's logos are a symptom of a larger problem - declining standards. It's what happens when anything moves from specialized niche market status into the wider ' wouldn't-recognize-quality-if-it-smacked-them-in-the-head ' mainstream. This occurs in every field, not just computers, communications or tech in general. It is mass consumerist, quantity over quality, stock price over customer, spreadsheet economics. And it is a devilish problem as quantity will almost always win over quality.

In this particular Windows 8 thread it is all about the retarded mobile device interface invading the personal computer desktop. Some of the other numerous examples were when LCD screens ( which were gradually improving 10-5 years ago but not yet ready for prime-time) replaced CRT's practically overnight. When anything goes mass market, R&D virtually stops and the focus becomes incremental improvements and only if they don't decrease profit margins. In the case of LCD's, it has taken forever just to move to LED backlights instead of fluorescents and will take far, far longer to get to where we should have been all along with discrete RGB LED's rather than LCD filtering cells. ~sigh~ The same case can be made for digital cameras which also came online too quickly, sacrificing important R&D into sensor tech and optics in trade for the megapixel marketing race.

The music industry went through a similar metamorphosis in the 1980's to 1990's when the least talented but most marketable to the lowest-common-denominator with the highest profit margin became the focus. Whether it was Michael Jackson, Madonna, or any other number of pop or rap 'stars', the ratio of them against the truly talented ( insert whatever you personally enjoy ) will be 100:1 or more.

The consequence is that the 'exceptional' is always the first victim to the consumerist business model. In Windows, once could sense this with the attitude displayed by Microsoft when they were trying to salvage Vista and routinely bad-mouthed their own hugely successful WinXP, something I don't recall them doing previously to Win2k or even Win9x when WinXP was promoted in 2001. To me it was the tip-off of their internal plans to move Windows into this mass-consumerist, McDonald's hamburger category and away from the traditional NT state-of-the-art and nobody-does-it-better bragging rights. Like in all the other examples ( LCDs, Cameras, and many more ), I believe that Microsoft is cashing out their R&D investment to succumb to quantity over quality. It's the easy way.

The eBay logo, and both Microsoft's corporate and Windows logo fiascos are just a few signs of a stampede race to the bottom. Or a sign that, as Jaclaz has said, 'the human race is doomed'.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#955
hoak

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It's a little reassuring to learn that, if ARM wins the day, we won't necessarily be relegated to using low-power processors.

Well, I don't know if that's really the largest or object concern with respect to processor platforms; a more realistic concern is Intel/AMD and/or their OEM 'partners' selling out to Microsoft pressure for various exclusive implementations of TPM and UEFI that exclude alternative operating systems (including downgrades) and software like this latest news gem and of course the the 'Secure Boot' Microsoft is mandating from OEM partners... With only 3.2 licensees (Intel, AMD, VIA, and Transmeta) x86 on the surface appears more likely to imperil itself through limited licensure, platform restrictions, DRM, and walled gardens that sours anything that interfaces with Microsoft into 'the' unappealing platform rather then just being run over by ARM.

ARM Holdings by contrast will license its architecture(s) to anyone; with over 25 of the biggest names in hardware design development and production, and over 20x that in total licensees at a average license/royalty cost of about 7¢ per processor -- just about anyone that has the means to get a chip in production can license ARM and build anything they want from a phone, to a PC, to a massive multi core servers. And while any OEM that builds on ARM can create their own walled garden (as Apple and Google have), there's no way to exert pressure over the ARM platform for licensure to exclusivity.

That ARM architecture has been primarily rolled in low power implementations is in no way a design limitation of the architecture; but that it got it's foot in the market there I think will be a tremendous boon to the platform's success; as the x86 PC is now the most expensive consumer appliance to leave running, surpassing even the refrigerator; with most PC consumers having more processing power then ran Fortune 500 companies just two decades ago, use less then a fraction of a percent of that processing capability and are only enriching power companies...

But what will become of our "legacy" x86 applications as our PCs die and need replacing? At that point, I suspect, we'd be sucked into the Matrix world of pre-approved apps in a Microsoft cocoon, right?

Well as far as the Microsoft OS that certainly appears to be their plan to make it appear that way. But ARM architecture already will run any Microsoft x86 OS and software in a Hyper-Visor, as well as under a number of emulators -- in fact ARM servers are already doing exactly that hosting Microsoft enterprise servers and applications...

By way of contrast, AFAIK pretty much any of my post-DOS programs will work on my current PCs if I choose to run them there.

I suspect if the Microsoft/x86 becomes a really ugly hegemony, by that time we'll have ARM/*NIX machines aplenty, and all the user friendly emulation you'll need to run Windows 7, XP, DOS and concomitant legacy applications will be good to go -- in fact if you're a modestly capable Linux geek this is already a done deal.

There's also a cost factor here; ARM and *NIX can easily undercut the Microsoft+Intel/AMD proprietary platform; and with $85 billion in quantitative easing a month with no limit -- inflation and costs are going to prevail on the future of what happens in this market as much or more, then any 'plan' a big mucky muck of a company might have...

P.S.: NCI = Nameless Crap Interface -- jaclaz's designation, devised after MS dropped "Metro" without apparently coming up with a new name that sticks.

LOL missed that one, thanks Jorge; "NCI" is certainly going to stick with me!

:)

Edit: An interesting article on the Intel/Imagination Technologies/Microsoft collusion just appeard here on Slashdot, and this article on the AMD x86 APU roadmap to Hondo -- sounds like Microsoft is throwing cash from their enormous slush fund out the window before it's devalued by inflation...

:}

Edited by hoak, 17 September 2012 - 03:25 AM.


#956
jaclaz

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P.S.: NCI = Nameless Crap Interface -- jaclaz's designation, devised after MS dropped "Metro" without apparently coming up with a new name that sticks.

LOL missed that one, thanks Jorge; "NCI" is certainly going to stick with me!

The real issue being, as said:
http://www.msfn.org/...32#entry1009332
that unfortunately the acronym has been neededly shortened, so it fails to deliver fully the message.....;)
On the other hand, an alternative name, short for Modern Enhanced Revolutionary Dumb Approach :w00t: , while still predating from the Italian language, would not be fully appreciated by the non-italian speaking peeps. :unsure: ;)

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#957
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#958
hoak

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Well 'MERDA' works fine in Portuguese as well, and is close enough to the French and Spanish pronunciation that most will know you're talking about Microsoft new steaming pile of...interface....

:D

Edited by hoak, 17 September 2012 - 03:31 AM.


#959
Tripredacus

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Ars Technica has a lukewarm review of the Win8 "touch" experience on an all-in-one desktop PC:


There is some arm length of requirements for Windows 8 to be on a touch screen PC. So I'd imagine that this review may not be 100% accurate of an actual final product that a company may end up selling. I say this because:

Lenovo sent us one of its IdeaCentre A720 all-in-ones, but rather than do a traditional review of the system, we installed Windows 8 RTM code on it to get some idea of what touch support brings to the desktop


I can't find the touch screen specs, so I can't compare with the requirements of the OS for touch. Here is where you can find the requirements and testing for touch screen in Windows 8:
http://msdn.microsof...e/hh852381.aspx

So Ars just installing the RTM onto the thing and expecting the results of a touch system certified for Windows 8 out of the box isn't a good indicator of how well Windows 8 works with touch. :rolleyes:
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#960
jaclaz

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LOL, in the article somebody is quoted as actually saying that the design is "contemporary."

If this is indicative of the design trend, then maybe I can change careers and become a logo designer. :rolleyes:


Yep, JFYI:
http://www.businessi...f-brands-2012-9
http://www.webdesign...with-helvetica/

The future is seemingly sans-serif (and with not that much intelligence too :whistle: )

jaclaz

#961
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Hehe. Funny thing happening at Fanboy Central ...

EDITORIAL: Calling Windows 8 the next Vista makes you look like an id*** ( NeoWin 2012-09-18 )

Written by one of their mindless staffers, Brad Sams. Full of the usual juvenile defensiveness that young fanboys reflexively spout when their toys are threatened. But that is normal fare over there really. The forum owner, Neobond ( Steven Parker ) seems to enjoy the religious jihad as it must drum up site hits.

However it appears that Brad Sams crossed a generally accepted line if you dissect several of the comments. You see, the top post editorial shows NO mention of any post-publishing editing ( such as: 'this post was modified' ) but some quotes exist that do not match it. NOTE: for reference sake, at this time the post is labeled: Brad Sams 5 hours ago 175 Comments. This exact quote is currently in the top article ...

"The next person who says that Windows 8 is the next Vista deserves to be kicked in the shin, twice. The context for making this comparison is so far off-base that by saying it, not only does it make you sound dumb, but it lowers the IQ of those around you."



In the comments we see one reference to slightly different previous wording ...

"The next person who says that Windows 8 is the next Vista deserves to be shot, twice."



Hmmmm. Way to keep it classy Brad Sams. :whistle: We'll have to check back to see if that remaining quote is scrubbed or other changes slip in. The point is, Journalism and Professionalism can only survive when integrity is present, and any signs that point to unacknowledged post-edits demolishes that integrity. When this happens in a forum it causes a few side-effects, not the least of which is leaving many comments looking out of place. Sometimes the coverup becomes as bad as the crime.

Are we having fun yet Steven? :lol: This is what happens when your forum is overrun with unhinged fanboys.

I have to dispute this "EDITORIAL" on other grounds though, and would correct it thusly: Calling Windows 8 the next Vista is an insult to Vista. Perhaps Windows ME would be more accurate.

EDIT: please note that the asterisks *** are substituted by this forum software, not me. To be able to use that link which also has asterisks, you will need to substitue iot for ***

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 18 September 2012 - 03:17 PM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#962
jaclaz

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No need to further comment, just look at his "page":
http://www.neowin.ne...ofile/brad_sams

Besides the actual photo, which represents clearly a typical Fortune 500 consultant/Wall Street Journal reader :whistle:

Brad was born and raised in Cincinnati, Ohio where he consults for Fortune 500 companies. He is a business person at heart and is always reading the Wall Street Journal; his homepage is set to bloomberg.com.

Brad has written many SWOT reports and enjoys reading about the latest technology in the consumer and business worlds. He believes that we live in a fast moving world and if you don't adapt you won't survive. Brad will bring to Neowin a business perspective to editorials and an analytical review of business moves in the technology industry.


Or the linkedIn profile:
http://www.linkedin....sams/10/849/8b9

Currently manage the news writing staff for Neowin.net, interact with vendors for product promotion, advertisement, and sponsored events. I also write news for our front page which receives over 4 million hits per month.


It sounds a lot like the guy is an "aggressive" kind of consultant, strongly interested in the financial part of everything. :unsure: , most probably he is a very nice guy :), but the image he projects is definitely a bit yuppish and (let's say :whistle: ) "non-unbiased".

jaclaz

#963
CharlotteTheHarlot

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The Windows 8 holy war continues in what is really becoming a funny episode over at Fanboy Central. Now there is a side thread going on over discussing the above-mentioned editorial ...

Editorial news calls quite a lot of people Idiots ( NeoWin 2012-09-18 )

... with some discussion on whether this author, Brad Sams did in fact say we "should be shot". Even one of their other moderators is incapable of figuring this out ( he cannot see an edit in the logs apparently ). But many of the readers have pointed it out that there was a change but with no mention of the change. ( which was my point above ).

It isn't until Post #57 that the author comes out and says this vague non-apology apology ...

"Whoa, I did say that was wrong, thus the change. Sorry, it was posted on Twitter (where most of the flak came from) and it was changed...not hiding here.

It was a poorly placed joke from the Office: [IMAGE]"


... not very clear Brad. Where is the mention of the update in the editorial? Another brazen fanboy staffer-moderator over there, Calum, chimes in at Post #63 unhelpfully attacking one of the commenters while completely ignoring the "should be shot" controvery. Yeah, that's professional.

Still looking for words from forum owner Neobond ( Steven Parker ) ... hmmm, at Post #72 he offers an image but it makes no sense to me. Later he offers some off-topic throw-away comment. ~sigh~ Steven, you really need to get up to speed on things. For starters, where is the EDIT acknowledgement? You really don't think that stuff like this just goes away, do you? Only Paul Thurrott is as much in the tank as are so many of your staff and commenters. :lol:

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#964
hoak

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One thing not really discussed in going deeper with the 'deeper impressions'; is that NCI does appear to play nice with Asian Languages... Metro/Modern/NCI looks like it was made for Kanji, Katakana, and Hiragana when you see Chinese or Japanese Windows 8 sites. Considering a substantial segment of the U.S. economy is floating on debt to Japan and China, and that China (even with the slow down) is still estimated to be one of if not the largest growth market -- one has to wonder if there's not more here then just Microsoft jumping the shark...

:)

Edited by hoak, 19 September 2012 - 01:45 AM.


#965
jaclaz

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One thing not really discussed in going deeper with the 'deeper impressions'; is that NCI does appear to play nice with Asian Languages... Metro/Modern/NCI looks like it was made for Kanji, Katakana, and Hiragana when you see Chinese or Japanese Windows 8 sites. Considering a substantial segment of the U.S. economy is floating on debt to Japan and China, and that China (even with the slow down) is still estimated to be one of if not the largest growth market -- one has to wonder if there's not more here then just Microsoft jumping the shark...

:)

Yes, but you see, this has always been.
We (the western) are taught that a number of symbols in a given order is associated to a meaning, they (the eastern) use single pictograms/ideograms to express basic "concepts" and when these are assembled they associate the concepts to the meaning.
It is an entirely different way of the brain to react to written text, it provides a definite advantage where icons (or tiles) are used, and they tend to develop a superior capability to identify shapes, and identify "patterns" and connect them to meanings.

See, as an "extreme" example:
http://advanced-japa...ngest-word.html

We (at least myself) find this way extremely difficult, and to understand (a very few) kanji I need every kind of trick/mnemonics.

There are interesting approaches in this particular field:
http://www.vizcabulary.com/ :thumbup
http://www.tofugu.co...their-meanings/
http://www.logobird....ood-pictograms/

jaclaz

#966
hoak

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Yes jaclaz, 私は理解して -- that was part of my point... What I'm wondering is how is Windows 8 actually perceived in the Asian markets, i.e. do they feel there's any functional usability value in NCI, or think it's as dumb as we do? I also wonder if there's any deliberate motive on Microsoft's part in this direction...

:)

#967
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Yes jaclaz, 私は理解して -- that was part of my point... What I'm wondering is how is Windows 8 actually perceived in the Asian markets, i.e. do they feel there's any functional usability value in NCI, or think it's as dumb as we do? I also wonder if there's any deliberate motive on Microsoft's part in this direction...

:)

My impression is that the good Japanese guys think very like us:
http://yaokou.cocolo...ws8windows.html
http://www.sd-dream....indows8 DP版レビュー

Usual (absolutely faked :ph34r: ) possible Japanese translations :w00t: :
名も無きクラップインタフェース

名無しのインターフェースくだらないこと

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#968
hoak

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Hmm, no really strongly negative opinions via those links -- mostly just a recitation... The guy blogging at the second link seems more surprised bewildered then disappointed... I wonder who the Japanese, Korean, and Chinese equivalents of John C. Dvorak would be...

:)

#969
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I wonder who the Japanese, Korean, and Chinese equivalents of John C. Dvorak would be...

:)

Yep, we miss some info on that part of the world, maybe blackwingcat may provide some insight. :unsure: (he is the only very active member I recall being from Japan)

For NO apparent reason (if not adding to the confusion) :w00t: :


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#970
xpclient

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Apparently the morons will waste a 10 digit amount on marketing the OS that no one wants :thumbup

Impossible to run NT6 without third party fixes.


#971
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Apparently the morons will waste a 10 digit amount on marketing the OS that no one wants :thumbup

Any Top Level Executive actually saying the highlighted/bolded sentences in public:

What keeps Han up at night: “For me personally, it’s my three kids. That aside, what actually keeps me up at night is the fear that we’re too cavalier for this. We’re too cool for school. Realize that this isn’t just another year. This is a year when Microsoft isn’t just talking big. We’re investing big.”

Should be IMMEDIATELY taken to a Court and judged (and condemned) for "utter lack of intelligence and common sense", IMHO.
Being a clown is not an offense per se, but there are limits..... :whistle:

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#972
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Apparently the morons will waste a 10 digit amount on marketing the OS that no one wants :thumbup

Holly Shi...! DANGER WILL ROBINSON! We have arrived here...

There has to be a rule of thumb about what it means when a company spends eleven fold on marketing what it spends on product development....

:(

#973
Tripredacus

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Let me add a bit of positive impressions back in. Something REALLY cool I found out by accident. I have a Windows 8 PC here, that when I plugged it into the corporate network, it automatically found and installed the network printer. It was totally transparent. The only reason I knew it was added was because I found it in Device Manager. As a test, I sent along a Test Page and it printed just fine. That really takes the pain out of installing printers!
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#974
xpclient

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Let me add a bit of positive impressions back in. Something REALLY cool I found out by accident. I have a Windows 8 PC here, that when I plugged it into the corporate network, it automatically found and installed the network printer. It was totally transparent. The only reason I knew it was added was because I found it in Device Manager. As a test, I sent along a Test Page and it printed just fine. That really takes the pain out of installing printers!


You mean the location-aware printing feature of Windows 7? Someone must have configured the default printer on your corporate network.

Impossible to run NT6 without third party fixes.


#975
Tripredacus

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Let me add a bit of positive impressions back in. Something REALLY cool I found out by accident. I have a Windows 8 PC here, that when I plugged it into the corporate network, it automatically found and installed the network printer. It was totally transparent. The only reason I knew it was added was because I found it in Device Manager. As a test, I sent along a Test Page and it printed just fine. That really takes the pain out of installing printers!


You mean the location-aware printing feature of Windows 7? Someone must have configured the default printer on your corporate network.


Maybe, but none of our Windows 7 PCs ever pick up the printer automatically. We always have to install the HP software which then searches the network and installs it.

In other news.... UEFI vulnerability found in Windows 8:
http://www.theregist...9/win8_rootkit/
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