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Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions


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#1151
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Microsoft reveals Surface RT pricing, starts at $499 for 32GB ( TechSpot 2012-10-16 )

The lineup starts at $499 for the 32GB model or $599 with the addition of a black multi-touch TouchCover keyboard case, while a 64GB variant that already includes the TouchCover keyboard is available for $699. Storage-for-storage the base model is $100 cheaper than the equivalent third-generation iPad, which is available at $499 for 16GB, $599 for 32GB or $699 for 64GB.

Additional TouchCovers in a range of colors will be $120 each and the TypeCover keyboard is $130. As a refresher, the former measures 3mm thick and has a multitouch keyboard as well as a trackpad, while the latter adds 5mm to the Surface’s thickness and has a tactile keyboard and a full touchpad with clickable buttons.


Pricing for Microsoft Surface Tablets and Covers Revealed ( Tom's Hardware 2012-10-16 )

The 32GB ARM-based Surface will sell for $499 sans Touch Cover. You can pay an additional $100 for the 32GB plus Touch Cover. There's also a $700 64GB model that will come with a Touch Cover included. It's not clear if Microsoft plans to sell the 64GB without the Touch Cover. If you buy the 32GB without the Touch Cover and change your mind, you'll be paying $120 to buy it separately. The Type cover will set you back ten bucks more at $130.


Well that is clear as mud! No, not for us who understand the geek speak, but for the other 99% that they are trying to reach. ~sigh~ Microsoft does the same thing with tangled prices and SKUs for their flagship software like Windows and Office, why shouldn't they create a mess with their toy tablet, err netbook, err tab-book, err whatever. Here is the mistake I think they made and how they made it. Some of the Windows 8 and Metro criticism made it into the Redmond boardroom and memories of Vista caused them to huddle and do that pricing thing on the low-end RT tablet by changing it from $599 with cover to $499 + $100. This way all the headlines today say "Surface Pricing Starts at $499". The next one up is $699 with cover, so it is frickin' obvious the lower one was originally $599 with cover! They really have contempt for their customers.



Microsoft stock price nearly flat today after Surface reveal ( NeoWin 2012-10-16 )

Yeah, I know that it doesn't really mean anything, especially with MSFT resembling a flatlined EKG for a decade. But watching the fanboys have strokes is cheap entertainment. Especially when NeoWin, aka Fanboy Central, writes this ...

After rising briefly in the middle part of the trading day on NASDAQ, Microsoft's stock price settled at the end of the day at $29.49 a share. That's a dip, compared to the previous day's trading, of just two cents, or 0.07 percent. That would seem to suggest that investors don't think the Surface will be a disaster for Microsoft, but they also don't seem to believe it will be a huge boost for the company's financial position either.

By contrast, Apple's stock price went up by 2.4 percent in trading today. Apple announced earlier today it would be holding a press event on October 23rd, where the company is highly expected to reveal a smaller version of its iPad and possibly more hardware products.



:lol: The only way that thing will rise is when Ballmer is fired or resigns and Sinofsky follows him out the door.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...



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#1152
Tripredacus

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Today I suddenly can equate a similarity between Surface and the Sega Saturn. The circumstances are not exactly similar, but close enough for me to construct a post. :whistle:

Surface
As previously mentioned above:

The lineup starts at $499 for the 32GB model or $599 with the addition of a black multi-touch TouchCover keyboard case, while a 64GB variant that already includes the TouchCover keyboard is available for $699. Storage-for-storage the base model is $100 cheaper than the equivalent third-generation iPad, which is available at $499 for 16GB, $599 for 32GB or $699 for 64GB.


Sega Saturn
In a slightly different approach, originally the initial prices for Surface was $199, which would have put it into competition with the Android tablets. This price came from Microsoft or someone at Microsoft or affiliated with them. Prior to pricing for the Saturn being announced, the speculative figure came from industry analysts and was expected to retail for $500 in the US. Then this happened:

Tom Kalinske, Sega of America CEO, was scheduled to give the first keynote address, scheduled for 0830 that morning. He remarked on the arrival of the nextgen wave in his speech, noting that the combined advertising costs for all three of the major players (Nintendo, Sega, Sony) could approach US$250 million, with another US$100 million on top of that handled by retailers selling the systems in question. He then sprang the surprise on E3 that Sega had been planning for two months. Sega was still going to officially launch the Saturn on 2 September as originally announced; however, it would start shipping the console today. As a stunned audience listened, Kalinske put on his best pitchman demeanor and informed them that Saturn would be available effective that day for the low retail price of US$399.


The quote comes from SegaBase. I am aware that a lot of info on SegaBase has been refuted, but the E3 story is pretty solid and worth sharing. So I can see that Microsoft has made itself a problem by initially preparing to create a Surface tablet to compete in the Kindle/Android market by offering a low cost product. They should have realised that those devices are actually in competition with the tablet market as well. So I think it is a mistake to only create a Surface device to compete with Apple and maybe the high end Samsung tablets and totally ignore the low cost market which is ripe for the picking.

Sony Playstation

Next up was Sony president Olaf Olaffson, there to give the second keynote address of E3. His listed topic was the future of videogames; but he was really there to tout the virtues of Ken Kuratagi's PlayStation and the place it would earn in the growing 32-bit console market. About two-thirds of the way through his address, he interrupted himself to call up Steve Race, one of the PlayStation's designers and president of Sony Computer's newly formed U.S. subsidiary, to tell the audience more about the PlayStation. Race walked up to the podium, a thick sheaf of papers in hand, and the crowd braced itself for a long and boring technical dissertation. Instead, Race laid the papers down on the podium, leaned into the microphone, and said just one thing: "US$299." The audience exploded with applause and Race was treated to a standing ovation.


Apple iPad mini

Sources have suggested that Apple will price the entry-level iPad Mini at around £180 to £200, compared with around £159 for the base Kindle Fire and Nexus 7.


Sources
SegaBase
DigitalSpy
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#1153
JorgeA

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Tripredacus,

Any ideas as to why Microsoft might have changed course and upped the price of the Surface to match the iPad rather than Android tablets?

--JorgeA

#1154
JorgeA

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how big must become Redmond to host the whole MS complaints department?

No increase is necessary. Their customer complaint strategy requires a staff of exactly two:

Spoiler


--JorgeA

#1155
jaclaz

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Here is the mistake I think they made and how they made it. Some of the Windows 8 and Metro criticism made it into the Redmond boardroom and memories of Vista caused them to huddle and do that pricing thing on the low-end RT tablet by changing it from $599 with cover to $499 + $100. This way all the headlines today say "Surface Pricing Starts at $499". The next one up is $699 with cover, so it is frickin' obvious the lower one was originally $599 with cover! They really have contempt for their customers.

Naaah :no: , the original price was $599 allright, but it was made by $500 + 99 of the cover ;) , and they are not going to actually charge you $120 if you change your idea, only $119.99. :whistle:

Seriously, sometimes I do wonder how such senseless prices as the *9.00 or *9.99 are still in use (not only by Microsoft) :unsure: it's not anymore the 19th century....
http://en.wikipedia....logical_pricing

On other news (but still numerology related :ph34r: ), ever heard of anyone announcing a release on the 26th of October or anyone inviting to an UNdisclosed product announcement on October 23rd?
http://www.mirror.co...e-price-1384082


jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 17 October 2012 - 11:24 AM.


#1156
Tripredacus

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Tripredacus,

Any ideas as to why Microsoft might have changed course and upped the price of the Surface to match the iPad rather than Android tablets?

--JorgeA


I'm fairly certain that the original $200 price would have Microsoft be in the red for at least a year or two before recouping profits from the app store. They would definately be selling the Surface at a loss to begin with, similar to how Verizon began installing FiOS to customers for free. The idea is to get the product out there, wow people by the price and then recoup the losses later with something else.

Microsoft was in high hopes for Windows 8 when that figure first came out. Since then to now, we know that customers aren't sold on Windows 8 yet. Intel spoke out about it, game companies spoke out about it, app developers spoke out about it (and the new Visual Studio) and those complainers about the missing Start Menu. And we have seen a recent article that the amount of apps available on the Store itself is still pretty paltry. I can say "from the inside" that Windows 8 also brings a lot of changes and requirements not previously seen in Windows releases. There is a lot of push back by ODMs, resulting in a low participation rate from them leading to certain compatibility issues.

See, Microsoft has been banking on the Metro Style Apps, the paid ones. Profit sharing between the developers/publishers, Microsoft and OEMs, all with purchases or microtransactions. But we have seen from all the negative hype about it (just look at this thread) likely directly led to the lackluster selection of apps in the store. This means that the initial forcast of App purchases is probably greatly reduced by now.... and that the Surface product price HAD to change, since I bet (I have no confirmation on this, just a hunch) that the cheap Surface price was set because they could offset the losses based on App Store revenue.
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#1157
LakotaRising

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@LakotaRising: you don't get it, do you?

It's the freedom of choice that WAS REMOVED from Windows 8, not the start menu.

Me, I don't give a rat's a** over Windows 8 as long as I have other (better IMHO) options - but IF we allow MS to take away OUR FREEDOM OF CHOICE, this means we're no more than sheep - like in the Samsung Galaxy III advertisement. ;)


Believe me I get it. But it's my choice to use it. It runs my games smoother then Win7 x64 ever did. I use what works. So I use it at this time. If Win8 stops working for me, then I go back to Win7. Simple. But the moment Steam works on Linux natively for all my games, it's bye-bye Windows for good.

#1158
LakotaRising

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~snipped~

Microsoft stock price nearly flat today after Surface reveal ( NeoWin 2012-10-16 )

Yeah, I know that it doesn't really mean anything, especially with MSFT resembling a flatlined EKG for a decade. But watching the fanboys have strokes is cheap entertainment. Especially when NeoWin, aka Fanboy Central, writes this ...

After rising briefly in the middle part of the trading day on NASDAQ, Microsoft's stock price settled at the end of the day at $29.49 a share. That's a dip, compared to the previous day's trading, of just two cents, or 0.07 percent. That would seem to suggest that investors don't think the Surface will be a disaster for Microsoft, but they also don't seem to believe it will be a huge boost for the company's financial position either.

By contrast, Apple's stock price went up by 2.4 percent in trading today. Apple announced earlier today it would be holding a press event on October 23rd, where the company is highly expected to reveal a smaller version of its iPad and possibly more hardware products.



:lol: The only way that thing will rise is when Ballmer is fired or resigns and Sinofsky follows him out the door.


Fanboys at Neowin? Your quite mistaken. There is a mix of people. Some there are like me. I use it because it works for me, but hate what it looks like. Then you have people there that hate it and you also have the ones who love it. So why not stop all these insane posts about "Win8 fanboys of Neowin".

Edited by LakotaRising, 17 October 2012 - 01:00 PM.


#1159
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Fanboys at Neowin? Your quite mistaken. There is a mix of people. Some there are like me. I use it because it works for me, but hate what it looks like. Then you have people there that hate it and you also have the ones who love it. So why not stop all these insane posts about "Win8 fanboys of Neowin".

Who said everyone over there is a Fanboy? You're not the only one reading and posting at NeoWin. Some of us, like me have been there for a decade and are well-suited to recognize changes like when it has been over-run by generation Xbox spoiled children. So obviously the term "Fanboy Central" does not mean that everyone there is a Fanboy because I would have to be one also. Please develop a sense of humor, your blood pressure will thank you for it.

For example here is a thread over there from about two months ago that isn't by a Fanboy. It is quite funny because the Fanboys that it lampoons all blindly jump in reveling in their cluelessness over the topic, which highlights their own typical Fanboy rebuttal to adults criticizing the forced Metro-only removed-StartMenu paradigm: "If you don't like it just pin your program to the taskbar and STFU!"

How Pro Windows 8 users want Anti Windows 8 users to use Windows 8 ( NeoWin Forums 2012-08-09 )

A picture is worth a thousand words ...

Spoiler

The responses are hilarious precisely because they don't get it. The image demonstrates exactly what they impulsively tell the so-called "haters" to do, yet they still cannot understand it! Cognitive Dissonance. :lol:


EDIT: updated image URL, and again

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 06 May 2013 - 06:28 PM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1160
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Microsoft Turns the Surface Tablet Into a Skateboard ( Tom's Hardware 2012-10-17 )

Sinofsky uses Surface as a skateboard, Tony Hawk is jealous ( NeoWin 2012-10-17 )

Will this be the next controversy? I mean, is it legitimate or another half-truth? Was it wheels attached to a Surface or merely a tablet strapped onto a skateboard? Did it still work? Where is the video? Why didn't they have Ballmer standing on it? :lol:


With Surface looming, Microsoft fails to explain Windows 8 vs. Windows RT to consumers ( The Verge 2012-10-17 )

They even have some of the quotes from the salesmen in nice little graphics like this ...

Posted Image


The thrust of the article is about the ignorance of salespeople in charge of selling the thing in the first place. No surprise considering how well managed Microsoft is these days.

The larger point is the Windows RT ( and WP8 ) versus regular Windows 8 sharing the identical interface, not to menton the name "Windows" is very problematic. High confusion factor and pretty much par for the course for the same Microsoft braintrust that stepped into the Metro naming fiasco. I would go further and say it is intentional obfuscation and is one of the reasons the EULA has been changed to thwart class action lawsuits. Does anyone really believe that they are not counting on people mistakenly believing that RT will run x86 Windows software? It should have been a completely new name, not "Windows", because it is NOT "Windows" at all. It is disgraceful and deceptive and they are seriously sticking their necks out again.

Another reason for the EULA change will be evident when novice computer users and n00bs see all the smiling people on the commercials happily swiping their screens and they then run out and buy the upgrade and go crazy poking and prodding their "legacy" displays wondering why the thing just doesn't work! I noted way upthread that we should watch the commercials for a: "DISCLAIMER: Touchscreen Display Required for Swiping" to see if their legal department isn't totally incompetent. The few videos and commercials I have seen so far do not indicate any disclaimer.

Yet a third reason for the EULA change might be for those Darwin Award contenders that purchase desktop touchscreens and spend hours and hours reaching out and wonder why their arms have turned to Jello.

IMHO, there is a lot of incompetence or shadiness in this whole thing. It is about the sale, the trend, the fad, but NOT the user. It really never has been, but it is getting worse. The net result of this experiment will be higher computer prices and less value for more money for the first time, ever. This Windows 8 thing must crash and burn for the good of everyone involved. That's what I think.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1161
JorgeA

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The larger point is the Windows RT ( and WP8 ) versus regular Windows 8 sharing the identical interface, not to menton the name "Windows" is very problematic. High confusion factor and pretty much par for the course for the same Microsoft braintrust that stepped into the Metro naming fiasco. I would go further and say it is intentional obfuscation and is one of the reasons the EULA has been changed to thwart class action lawsuits. Does anyone really believe that they are not counting on people mistakenly believing that RT will run x86 Windows software? It should have been a completely new name, not "Windows", because it is NOT "Windows" at all. It is disgraceful and deceptive and they are seriously sticking their necks out again.

Great post all around, but this is the (IMHO) most important point! Because MS has made Windows 8 and Windows RT look the same, a lot of regular folks are going to expect Windows RT to do the same things as Windows 8, so they're being set up for a lot of disappointment (not to say frustration and anger) when they find out that it DOESN'T.

Based on prior history where MSFT stock spikes just before the launch of a new OS, I had intended to buy a few weeks ago, but now I'm glad that I procrastinated. If the pattern were to hold, it should have gone up by now. There may still be a bounce in the price, but I'm not sure it'll be worth the effort. As public anger builds against MS, I wouldn't be surprised if ultimately the stock even dropped from its current level.

Meanwhile, there's been another less-than-glowing review of Windows 8 and analysis of its prospects. The curious thing is that the general praise is warm, but the details are icy:

The problem is that Windows 8 apps aren’t unique, sure the UI is, but that’s it. The functionality of these apps are not, I can get desktop apps to do the same + more.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 18 October 2012 - 09:04 AM.


#1162
jaclaz

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IMHO you are making it bigger than it really is :unsure: :

http://www.theverge....store-employees

  • One rep told me that only mobile apps would run on Windows RT.
  • When I asked about the Surface with Windows RT, one rep explicitly corrected me, saying that "the Microsoft Surface RT has Windows 8 on it."
  • One rep told me "They're pretty much the same thing, there is no real huge difference beside the RT is more touch friendly." Minutes later, they admitted: "also it can not do an installation of x86/64 and desktop software."
  • When I asked what "x86/64 software" was, the rep told me this: "It's nothing you'd care about, that's more for people who are building their own software." "I honestly can't say there's much a difference at all when it comes to a regular computer user. For an average user the differences between the pro and RT are slim."

Posted Image


It's easy, if you don't build your own software you shouldn't care about it.... :whistle:

For NO apparent reason:
http://homepage.ntlw...pejorative.html

jaclaz

#1163
JorgeA

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If Win8 stops working for me, then I go back to Win7. Simple. But the moment Steam works on Linux natively for all my games, it's bye-bye Windows for good.

It's curious that you and I might end up in the same place (Linux) coming from totally different routes!

--JorgeA

#1164
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Toshiba Windows 8 PCs get their own "Desktop Assist Program" ( NeoWin 2012-10-18 )
First commercial version of Start8 for Windows 8 released ( NeoWin 2012-10-19 )

Stardock's Start-menu replacement has gone gold. Toshiba says it has plans to enter the Start-Menu sweepstakes with their own launcher. The Fanboys are scornful. :lol: In fact one of them who is an administrator over there actually thinks Microsoft should stop OEM's ( and no doubt all of us ) from tampering with the perfection that is Windows 8 and Metro: "Yes, me too. So they can start to restrict the kind of crap OEMs install on people's computers. . . .". Later he adds: "If average users can't handle this change and it's "too much" for them, that is entirely their fault, and I'm glad Microsoft aren't harming my user experience just to cater to those people who can't be bothered to understand or learn a new interface.". Yep, we're doing it wrong.


Microsoft holding Windows 8 training session at its stores ( NeoWin 2012-10-18 )

Okay, now let me understand this. Microsoft is willing to shell out for the huge cost of Windows 8 Metro clinics and seminars instead of just leaving the darned Start Menu in place. No doubt they spent some perfectly good development money on breaking and then disappearing the code needed to keep the Start Menu where it was all along. And at RTM they added a little hot-corners help thingie, visible once at first boot, but not a fancy full-fledged tutorial available on-demand, perhaps tied to the F1 HELP key or even on one of the tiles! This really is amateur hour. See a couple of months ago: The Windows 8 'tutorial' is a joke ( ZDNet 2012-08-22 ).


Finally, a random example of why splattering the "Start-Menu" onto a full-screen of "live" tiles will evolve into the biggest setback for personal privacy and security we have ever seen ...

My T-Mobile app for Windows in the Windows Store Preview ( apps.microsoft.com )

Description
My T-Mobile provides an integrated Mobile Broadband account experience for Windows 8 OS. The live-tile displays the current data usage information, billing cycle, and key notifications from T-Mobile. It intelligently determines the currently associated plan to show the appropriate experience in a simple and intuitive manner based on the status of the plan. Provides a seamless connection experience to purchase plans or to top-up data. Saves all the T-Mobile toast pop-up notifications for later viewing. Help & Support section provides friendly troubleshooting and self-help tips.
This application requires a T-Mobile data SIM card to function.


This is the proverbial tip-of-the-iceberg. Coming soon to a tile near you, billing and balance information from Visa, Mastercard and American Express. Statements from your bank and reports from your brokers and the Social Security Administration. All this data rendered in plain text on a computer screen or a single tap away. Hackers and Cyber-Criminals will have never had it so easy. The Fanboys will say "there is a lock screen!" Yeah, but there are live tiles after that, and what are the dummies gonna keep on their Phone/Tablet/Netbook/Laptop display, the lock screen or the live tiles? Microsoft is selling the live tiles hard and so are the Fanboys. There is only one way this thing can go and that is we wll now have a new class of devices even less secure than current laptops and cellphones - Windows 8 live tiles devices where the user is always on the Start Screen waiting for the Email or Facebook or some other thing to increment. I am surprised this has gotten very little attention. Wait 'til the first big virus hits. Yeah I know, they'll blame it on the desktop side.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1165
JorgeA

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Shades of when Vista came out and vendors ended up continuing to sell XP systems -- except that this time it's already happening even before the new OS is officially released:

HP, Lenovo and Acer will all have new Windows 7 PCs after Windows 8 launch

Looks like I didn't need to rush out and buy a new PC... thankfully!

--JorgeA

#1166
Tripredacus

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Toshiba Windows 8 PCs get their own "Desktop Assist Program" ( NeoWin 2012-10-18 )
First commercial version of Start8 for Windows 8 released ( NeoWin 2012-10-19 )

Stardock's Start-menu replacement has gone gold. Toshiba says it has plans to enter the Start-Menu sweepstakes with their own launcher. The Fanboys are scornful. :lol: In fact one of them who is an administrator over there actually thinks Microsoft should stop OEM's ( and no doubt all of us ) from tampering with the perfection that is Windows 8 and Metro: "Yes, me too. So they can start to restrict the kind of crap OEMs install on people's computers. . . .". Later he adds: "If average users can't handle this change and it's "too much" for them, that is entirely their fault, and I'm glad Microsoft aren't harming my user experience just to cater to those people who can't be bothered to understand or learn a new interface.". Yep, we're doing it wrong.


Well, I can't go into details but Microsoft already has these rules for OEMs. The problem is that no software maker is following them. And there is a rule about not installing anything that adds a Start Menu back, replaces the Start Screen or including any program that can access the Store, display Metro style apps, etc. This partly relates to my previous post about ODMs not fully embracing the new "rules" regarding Windows 8.

So to put it bluntly, Toshiba CANNOT ship a system as an OEM that includes a Start Menu replacer.

If this product is allowed to be released, what you will be seeing is a full-on revolt by OEMs and ODMs against Microsoft. :o
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#1167
ricktendo

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Are you guys going to post EVERY negative article that comes out about Windows 8?

I'm sorry but this topic is nothing but a diarrhea of articles, I'd even go as far as saying this is bordering on spam

OK we get it, you don't like Windows 8

#1168
LakotaRising

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Are you guys going to post EVERY negative article that comes out about Windows 8?

I'm sorry but this topic is nothing but a diarrhea of articles, I'd even go as far as saying this is bordering on spam

OK we get it, you don't like Windows 8



Thank you Rick. Was getting a bit tedious. This whole "I hate Win8, going back to Win7", is the same we read back when Win7 first came out. Tons of people were spouting "I hate Win7, going back to XP." I'm just glad that people who have positive experiences with Win8, aren't getting bashed for posting about liking Win8, like some did with Win7.

Everyone has an opinion, just like everyone has an _______. But come on people, enough's enough.

#1169
JorgeA

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Are you guys going to post EVERY negative article that comes out about Windows 8?

I'm sorry but this topic is nothing but a diarrhea of articles, I'd even go as far as saying this is bordering on spam

OK we get it, you don't like Windows 8

ricktendo64 (and @LakotaRising),

I started this thread back in January, for the purpose of offering "deeper impressions" on Windows 8 (beyond the "first impressions" given in a previous thread), and you're welcome to contribute your own.

That said, as the mods will attest, the thread has developed over time. There is no shortage of places to go for anyone who wishes to read articles cheerleading for Windows 8. It's easy to get one's fill of that. This thread has evolved largely into a place where people who (for whatever reasons) are not enamored of Win8, can come to collect and obtain information to balance out what we see as the marketing hype and boosterism available elsewhere.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 19 October 2012 - 01:09 PM.


#1170
Tripredacus

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Remember my Sega Saturn comparison?

There is another problem, as well. The company showed its hand too soon. The media (and Microsoft’s competitors) know what’s coming, but there hasn’t been a ton of ink slung at it yet because they’re either under embargo or they haven’t actually seen anything. They have to wait a few more weeks before they can start writing. But what else is going on in the coming weeks? Well, on the 16th — the same day Microsoft announced Surface RT pricing, availability, and pre-orders — Apple sent out an invitation to an iPad mini event on Oct. 23, just days before Microsoft’s big show in New York. On Wednesday, Google announced its own Android event on Oct. 29, which will take place just three hours before Microsoft’s launch in San Francisco, and a day before Build in Redmond. Oh, and can you guess when Apple — now the world’s biggest company — announces its first earnings post-iPhone 5? Oct. 24.

Bottom line: Microsoft’s big launches are about to be buried in a deluge of news from other companies.


http://www.wired.com...-just-cant-win/

:rolleyes:
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#1171
jaclaz

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Are you guys going to post EVERY negative article that comes out about Windows 8?

I'm sorry but this topic is nothing but a diarrhea of articles, I'd even go as far as saying this is bordering on spam

OK we get it, you don't like Windows 8


Well, with all due respect :), it's not like someone is holding you at a gun point to force you reading this thread :no: .

I actually see very few negative comments on Windows 8 (the actual OS), a lot of them about the NCI , as well many on the doubts about usability/convenience on large screens (touch or not), and much more on the "philosophy" behind it (the Nameless Crap Interface) AND (particularly by me) some additional negative comments to the lie behind the statements of the kind "You talked, we listened".
If the good MS guys behind the way Windows 8 GUI and "tiles" (and a few other aspects) have been implemented had simply said: "It's our OS, it's our money we will be making or losing, we don't §@ç#ing care about your ideas, experiences and work" it would be to me (almost) perfectly allright, they would be (as they are anyway) both arrogant and unpolite, but they wouldn't be telling "us" that "we" told them what to do and they did it. :whistle:

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 19 October 2012 - 01:22 PM.


#1172
ricktendo

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ricktendo64 (and @LakotaRising),

I started this thread back in January, for the purpose of offering "deeper impressions" on Windows 8 (beyond the "first impressions" given in a previous thread), and you're welcome to contribute your own.

That said, as the mods will attest, the thread has developed over time. There is no shortage of places to go for anyone who wishes to read articles cheerleading for Windows 8. It's easy to get one's fill of that. This thread has evolved largely into a place where people who (for whatever reasons) are not enamored of Win8, can come to collect and obtain information to balance out what we see as the marketing hype and boosterism available elsewhere.

--JorgeA

Who said I was cheerleading?

I don't like that they removed Media Center (and are now charging for it,) I also hate that they removed aero (but after reading this article convinced me otherwise) but you don't see me whining (at least not as much as you guys) about it

You should think about changing the name of this topic from "Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions" to "Windows 8 - Negative stuff I found on the net"

Edit: @jaclaz same thing can be said to you all. Nobody is forcing you at gunpoint to use Windows 8, stick with whatever OS you are using now

Edited by ricktendo64, 19 October 2012 - 01:31 PM.


#1173
Joseph_sw

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M$ also did censoring,
my recent found is about "Microsoft Advertising SDK for Window 8"

They removes my questions/posts,
whenever I tried to ask or comparing why the SDK usages would (not) be any different than AdWare.

#1174
Tripredacus

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I don't like that they removed Media Center (and are now charging for it,) I also hate that they removed aero (but after reading this article convinced me otherwise) but you don't see me whining (at least not as much as you guys) about it


Everyone is entitled to their opinions about it. Some have come in to this thread and defend Windows 8, but what we don't have happening is OS battles. There is no arguments about someone liking or not liking it, and we'd like to keep it that way. Besides, you can just come along to read the links, it is a good way of keeping up to date on what people are saying. Anyways, its a popular topic.

If anything tho, I'd rather the people of Neowin not be referred to as "fanboy site" or whatever. We don't need to be talking like that here.
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#1175
JorgeA

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ricktendo64 (and @LakotaRising),

I started this thread back in January, for the purpose of offering "deeper impressions" on Windows 8 (beyond the "first impressions" given in a previous thread), and you're welcome to contribute your own.

That said, as the mods will attest, the thread has developed over time. There is no shortage of places to go for anyone who wishes to read articles cheerleading for Windows 8. It's easy to get one's fill of that. This thread has evolved largely into a place where people who (for whatever reasons) are not enamored of Win8, can come to collect and obtain information to balance out what we see as the marketing hype and boosterism available elsewhere.

--JorgeA

Who said I was cheerleading?

No one.

What I did say (I left the quote above, unchanged) is that anyone who wants to read articles cheerleading for Windows 8, has plenty of places to do it. And I would add, not just individual articles, but large chunks of websites, sometimes almost entire ones.

I'm glad to know that, like me, you were concerned about the removal of Windows Media Center and Aero elements. Personally, I do find the fancier graphics much more appealing and wish that Microsoft would let users choose the level of "eye candy" that we prefer on our screens (as they did with Vista and 7, for example) instead of channeling everyone to the same (lowest) common denominator.

There is no doubt that we aren't forced to buy or use Windows 8. But as the economist Albert Hirschman wrote, markets offer two non-mutually exclusive ways for customers to react to a situation where the quality of a company's products or services is perceived to have declined: "voice" and "exit." That is, we can speak up ("voice") in the hope that the company will mend its ways and offer something closer to our preferences; and/or we can "exit" by ceasing to buy from the company. In this thread, we are speaking up -- using our "voice." If that fails, then some of us have already indicated that eventually we'll "exit" for Linux or the Mac.

Sure, we can still use Windows 7, but Microsoft won't be supporting that OS forever. As has been mentioned several times in this thread, the concern is that MS will ultimately kill off the Desktop, rendering useless our preferred way to interact with our computers. Hence our voluble use of the "voice" strategy here. :)

BTW, since @Tripredacus just mentioned Neowin -- in my view the coverage by staff writers at Neowin hasn't been entirely unbalanced, but I stopped reading the comments section after seeing people expressing an unfavorable view of Windows 8 denounced as a "TROLL!" or told to "STOP WHINING!" for the thousandth time. Not an effective way to argue, IMHO.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 19 October 2012 - 04:53 PM.





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