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Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions


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#1201
JorgeA

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This one is absolutely fabulous ...

Microsoft's 'official' Windows 8 Survival Guide leaks ( Andrew Orlowski UK Register 2012-10-25 )

Fantastic -- best rundown of Win8 that I've seen!! :thumbup

--JorgeA


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#1202
tomasz86

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I wanted to add this complaint about Task Manager, where now it doesn't show you the file name for processes. Instead, it reads information out of the EXE itself. This is helpful, but not when software companies take shortcuts!

Spoiler


The first one is a Battery Optimization software, the second is Wireless switch software. Both of these programs are the new Windows 8 version for the notebook I am working on. Both are 32bit apps that are running on a 64bit OS.

If there's really no way to change this then using Process Explorer as Task Manager replacement is now not an option but a must.

post-47483-1123010975.png


#1203
CharlotteTheHarlot

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If there's really no way to change this then using Process Explorer as Task Manager replacement is now not an option but a must.

Exactly. ProcExp is a must. And by the way, it is not just necessary to see the process ("image") name, but also the full path! Case in point is SvcHost.exe on Windows 7. Seeing 10 instances of this in Task Manager does not help anyone to spot an infection. But seeing the full path and then spotting one running from C:\Windows where it should not be will tell you something very important. The author of ProcExp, Mark Russinovich, has given us so many "Select Columns" choices in Process Explorer ( which is now officially a Microsoft program ), that I have to wonder just who were those folks demanding improvements in Windows task manager in the first place and why exactly? Listing that as some kind of selling point for Windows 8 makes someone a complete n00b.

It is similar to the alleged speedier bootup times. Once you account for hybrid hibernate and reduced services why wouldn't it boot a little faster! Besides, this really exposes the person as a serial-tasker, ( think of the command: START /w ) one who sits and waits for something to finish before moving on to the next. They apparently press the computer power button and wait impatiently for the bootup to complete so they can then click something, rather than multitasking by pressing the power button 20 seconds before you need to use it and getting a cup of coffee while it boots. :yes:

There is so much irony and hypocrisy in Windows 8 lovers on the one hand saying: "it has much faster boot times!". and then on the other hand telling us: "There is no need to shutdown the PC!" or "Apps don't need to be closed!" when rationalizing the hidden "close app" and "shutdown".

Clearly these two "improvements", bootup time and task manager were, pardon the pun, Windows Dressing to help convince n00bs that there are improvements to help justify this abomination.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1204
CharlotteTheHarlot

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In yet a further devolution of discoverability, Microsoft lowers the bar into new territory as seen in Anandtech's Microsoft Surface Review. In describing the keyboard he specifically writes ...

Surface’s Touch Cover features six rows of keys and doesn’t have any specific call outs for old school function keys, although there are dedicated keys for volume, home/end/page up/page down, etc… The function keys are still there however, just not labeled. To access them just hit alt + fn and then count the keys to the right of the escape key. For example, F4 is the fourth function key over, which on Touch Cover is the play/pause key.

There are some other quirks that take some getting used to. For example, there’s a capslock key but no capslock indicator.



Posted Image
( image from Anandtech )


I haven't seen a Surface yet in person so these reviews are all I have at the moment. Am I reading this right? It is not just a FN+F-key but it is ALT+FN+F-Key? So to press F4 it means ALT+FN+F4 or more precisely on this Surface: ALT+FN+Unlabeled key with a little play/pause icon? Is this correct? So if that is F4 what would be ALT-F4? This got through the development stage without someone saying something?

Penny Wise and Pound Foolish. Boy does this bring back bad memories from 1983 to 1984 when IBM thought it was a good idea to invent the PCjr toy keyboard with it's FN+F-Key arrangement ( which now appears to be easier than the ALT+FN+F Surface idea ). They took a real beating on this and it is what helped to classify that computer as a toy. I thought that disaster was behind us until it started popping up again on laptops and smaller devices over the past decade or so. ( don't even get me started on the wandering DEL and PAGE keys and various shapes and sizes for ENTER and SHIFT ). I wonder if anyone has tried over the phone to have the customer press a certain F-KEY combination when their keyboard has the FN modifier. How about walking them through F8 at bootup to catch the startup screen. I guess using a triple combination CTL+SHIFT+F-Key is pretty much out the window. :lol:

Posted Image
( image from Mike's PCjr page )



EDIT: updated image URLs, and again

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 06 May 2013 - 08:26 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1205
loblo

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What's coming next, a yet easier to use keyboard with a clever combination of just two buttons? :w00t:

#1206
jaclaz

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What's coming next, a yet easier to use keyboard with a clever combination of just two buttons? :w00t:

Naah, that two keys keyboard is the OLD idea :w00t: , the future is a J38 ;):
Posted Image
you will appreciate how it needs very little space.

More seriously, I guess that in order to simplify the OSK is not there anymore or it has anyway a simplified look (and it would be anyway unavailable before complete boot), which also makes any and all bootmanagers (that normally use F-keys in a pre-boot environment) become unusable.
(the good news being that grub4dos uses normally not F-keys, but I presume that next ones to be removed will be cursor keys)

jaclaz

#1207
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Posted Image
you will appreciate how it needs very little space.

.-. --- - ..-. .-.. -- .- ---

Posted Image

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1208
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Apropos of the Function Key fiasco mentioned above, Microsoft has managed to complicate things further by having different key labels on the "upgrade" version of the surface keyboard they call the "Type Cover". The one mentioned previously above is called the "Touch Cover" and is the colorful one seen in the commercials. They apparently work identically, possibly requiring the ALT+FN+F-Key combination ( according to Anandtech ), but they sensibly decided to place labels on the better keyboard ...

Posted Image Posted Image
"Touch Cover" ( left ) and "Type Cover" ( right )
( images from Anandtech )


If you look close you can see the Function Key labels on the top row of keys, labels that for some reason are missing on the other keyboard. As I said I haven't yet seen one of these things so I have been checking out all the hands-on reviews. Amazingly, only Anandtech and PC Magazine have even mentioned the Function Keys. Anandtech describes ALT+FN+F-Key as the procedure while PC Magazine has a different description ...

The row of function keys on the top of the keyboard are mapped to functions like Volume, Play/Pause, and the Home/Page Up/Page Down/Delete keys. Four function keys bring up the Charms bar, and functions including Search, Settings, and Share. The function keys are clearly marked with icons for each of the actions. The F1-F12 keys show up on the Type Cover, but not on the Touch Cover. For the Touch Cover, you'll need to hold down the Fn key to access the actual F1-F12 functions on some programs.


... which sounds like the "Touch Cover" actually uses the typical laptop ( and PCjr ) method while implying that the "Type Cover" does not. So now I'm not sure how it works. ~sigh~

Anyway, if you are interested in the reviews, here are a few I've read so far ...

Innovative tablet stranded in an app desert ( CNet 2012-10-23 )

Microsoft Surface with Windows RT ( PC Magazine 2012-10-23 )

Surface tablet's touch cover is ZX81 REBORN ( UK Register 2012-10-26 )

Microsoft Surface review ( The Verge 2012-10-23 )

Review: Surface RT, Microsoft's bid for a 'thing' of its own ( PC World 2012-10-23 )


EDIT: updated image URLs, and again

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 06 May 2013 - 08:27 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1209
Joseph_sw

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I see...., then its possible for me to create programs to mock that 'surface' keyboard usages...

To stat using this Apps, please Press & Hold the F12 key, and while keep holding it, press the Page Down Key.


Edited by Joseph_sw, 28 October 2012 - 08:37 PM.


#1210
JorgeA

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I haven't seen a Surface yet in person so these reviews are all I have at the moment. Am I reading this right? It is not just a FN+F-key but it is ALT+FN+F-Key? So to press F4 it means ALT+FN+F4 or more precisely on this Surface: ALT+FN+Unlabeled key with a little play/pause icon? Is this correct? So if that is F4 what would be ALT-F4?

Assuming that the reviewer's description is correct --

I use ALT+F2+K(Q,R,B,N) to create figurine pieces (using a specialized font) for my chess notebooks. So, I could not use the Surface this way for this purpose even if I wanted to.

This got through the development stage without someone saying something?

But you don't understand -- using ALT+F-key would require much too high a level of sophistication from the target audience, so it probably didn't even enter into their thinking. "Windows reimagined" is really "Windows lobotomized." (Or, less charitably, "Windows cretinized.") Who cares about these nerdy key sequences when you can watch Katy Perry videos on a full screen* and buy her complete song catalog at the touch of a button...

(*) Not that you haven't been able to do that since IE4 (at least) by just pressing F11, but that's one of those nerdy keys the intended audience isn't expected to know anything about. The irony, of course, is that ALT+FN+F-key is an even more obscure combination.

--JorgeA

#1211
JorgeA

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I see...., then its possible for me to create programs to mock that 'surface' keyboard usages...

To stat using this Apps, please Press & Hold the F12 key, and while keep holding it, press the Page Down Key.

:lol: :thumbup

--JorgeA

#1212
jaclaz

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The good thing about history is that if you study it, you can re-use some of the inventions of the past ;), something similar to this may become an everyday accessory, though the issue is re-engineering it to make it foldable/portable :unsure: :
Posted Image

You may not believe me, but I actually had a young guy, that once in the good ol' days when I told him to press alt + ctrl + del pressed with his left index the Alt, with his right index the right Ctrl and - short of fingers but not of ideas :thumbup - pressed the Del with a pencil held in his mouth.

Just for fun :whistle: :
Spoiler


jaclaz

#1213
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Metro has gotten its new name, officially ...

Microsoft Design Language is the new "Metro" ( NeoWin 2012-10-29 )

I WONDER WHY THEY DIDN'T JUST USE THE MORE OBVIOUS NAME: MICROSOFT SHOUT, OR MICROSOFT YELL, OR MICROSOFT CAPSLOCK, OR MICROSOFT CAPITALS OR MICROSOFT WHATEVER. err sorry about that. I mean why didn't they just use the more obvious name: Microsoft SHOUT, or Microsoft YELL, or Microsoft CAPSLOCK, or Microsoft CAPITALS or Microsoft whatever. ~sigh~

Posted Image
( image from Brand New, can't find any at Microsoft, did they scrub them? )


Anyway, I'm still calling it Metro, or Vistro. :lol:

P.S. Just an FYI, if anyone is reading the articles at NeoWin over the past week you should note that they have been too busy to fill out the <TITLE> tags on their pages. The default placeholder is: Where unprofessional journalism looks better, For real! I am not making this up. Consequently, if you choose to save any of these webpages using the same title tags, you can save exactly one before getting filename collisions ( are you sure you want to overwrite? ). I know they are very busy pumping out the endless Windows 8 fluff pieces, but that is above and beyond the call of amateurism. Someone wake up Steven.


EDIT: updated image URL, and again.

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 06 May 2013 - 06:11 PM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1214
loblo

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Posted Image
( image from Brand New, can't find any at Microsoft, did they scrub them? )

As you're probably aware, the name Metro has been ditched since a little while now because of some legal threats from a german retail giant of the same name it would seem.

However I find that pic rather interesting as it's a good summary of the whole Windows 8 marketing campain, which seems to consists into piling up as many empty catchphrases and slogans as possible, which are in addition often completely meaningless, what the heck are in motion or authentic supposed to mean here.

Pathetic really, as have been Balmer, Sinofsky and other MS reps performance on stage lately.

Edited by loblo, 29 October 2012 - 07:09 PM.


#1215
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Like lemmings leaping off the cliff ...

Ballmer claims Win 8 sales strong, WinPhone to follow ( UK Register 2012-10-30 )

Microsoft Sells 4 Million Copies of Windows 8 ( Tom's Hardware 2012-10-30 )

Microsoft: four million Windows 8 upgrades sold in four days ( TechSpot 2012-10-30 )

Microsoft: Four million Windows 8 upgrades so far ( NeoWin 2012-10-30 )

Microsoft sold 4 million Windows 8 upgrades in three days ( Ars Technica 2012-10-30 )

Yay, a third of one percent of the 1.3 billion Windows users rushed to turn their computer into a Crapple-like toy. Team B&S must be so proud. I guess it is pretty much to expected at that much lower ( and more realistic ) price point anyway.



But not everyone is fawning over it ...

Windows 8 Is a Desktop Disaster ( Matthew Murray PC Magazine 2012-10-27 )

Dvorak pretty much mirrors what many of us have said here, that the RT version of Windows 8 uses extremely deceptive naming to the average computer purchaser ...

Playing With Microsoft's Surface ( John C. Dvorak PC Magazine 2012-10-29 )

EDIT: added links

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 30 October 2012 - 05:27 PM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1216
jaclaz

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From second page of the linked to article:
http://www.pcmag.com...,2411445,00.asp

I realize I'm not part of Microsoft's target audience anymore, but I still think power users like myself—I've been using Windows for 22 years—deserve better. If I've been using GUI-based operating systems for nearly three decades and this one regularly for over a year, and it still fails to suffice for basic tasks, there's something seriously wrong.


I fully subscribe, it couldn't have been put better in words. :thumbup

jaclaz

#1217
Tripredacus

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Yeah sales of Windows 8. This cannot even be compared to Vista... Now my market is not to cater to retail type end users... but well there seems to be "passing" interest from customers about Windows 8, but people just aren't putting the money where their mouth is. I can't really say much more than that... but suffice it to say that I expected at least a Vista level of first day sales.
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#1218
jaclaz

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Just for the record:
http://www.zdnet.com...les-7000006602/

As for Windows 8, I have to say that this is the most subdued Windows launch that I can recall. The buzz doesn't seem to be there, and instead it's been replaced by confusion over pricing, hardware requirements, and the whole issue of touch. There also seems to be a great deal of confusion over the differences between Windows 8 and Windows RT, specifically nobody quite knows what the latter is even for.

This much consumer confusion at the point of release seems to suggest that the industry -- specifically Microsoft and its hardware partners -- have not done a good enough job of educating the masses about Windows 8.


The linked to interview to the Wall Street Journal contains IMHO a pearl):

WSJ: How has the public reception been for Windows 8 and the Surface in the first few days?

Mr. Ballmer: Numerically there's not really much that's interesting to report. If you were to call the retailers, they would say, 'Hey, off to a very good start.' We're out of stock a lot of places on touch [screen] machines. I was at a dinner in San Francisco last week, and I brought out this beautiful, very thin [touch-screen] laptop, and they said, 'Wow, I never thought touch could be valuable and important in a laptop.'

(I bolded the pearl)
During an interview with one of unarguably one of the most influential financial newspapers in the West world, the very Top Eecutive of one of the largest software companies worldwide, as an answer to a serious question, provides (senseless) anecdotal evidence AND the interviewer accepts this nonsense? :w00t:

I mean ;):

Wow, I never thought touch could be valuable and important in a laptop.

sounds too similar to :

"It is a public journal; I will explain what that is, another time. It is not cloth, it is made of paper; some time I will explain what paper is. The lines on it are reading matter; and not written by hand, but printed; by and by I will explain what printing is. A thousand of these sheets have been made, all exactly like this, in every minute detail—they can't be told apart." Then they all broke out with exclamations of surprise and admiration:

"A thousand! Verily a mighty work—a year's work for many men."

"No—merely a day's work for a man and a boy."

They crossed themselves, and whiffed out a protective prayer or two.

"Ah-h—a miracle, a wonder! Dark work of enchantment."

to be plausible .... in 2012 ... and presuming that the very Top Executive of MS does not fly to San Francisco to have dinner with a bunch of morons (or maybe it was a form of flattery raised to the power of n). :whistle:

jaclaz

#1219
tomasz86

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Dvorak pretty much mirrors what many of us have said here, that the RT version of Windows 8 uses extremely deceptive naming to the average computer purchaser ...

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33642_7-57454524-292/just-what-is-windows-rt-anyway-faq/

post-47483-1123010975.png


#1220
JorgeA

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Posted Image
( image from Brand New, can't find any at Microsoft, did they scrub them? )

As you're probably aware, the name Metro has been ditched since a little while now because of some legal threats from a german retail giant of the same name it would seem.

However I find that pic rather interesting as it's a good summary of the whole Windows 8 marketing campain, which seems to consists into piling up as many empty catchphrases and slogans as possible, which are in addition often completely meaningless, what the heck are in motion or authentic supposed to mean here.

Pathetic really, as have been Balmer, Sinofsky and other MS reps performance on stage lately.

You're right -- that's just a bunch of meaningless slogans! What does "Metro" have to do with being "modern" and "clean," anyway? On the subway lines that I've been on in three different countries, I can think of many other, much more appropriate words! :puke: And THOSE words would be equally applicable to Windows Metro... :whistle:

Glad that the image above still resides somewhere on the 'Net: it makes it hard for MSFT to deny that they ever officially endorsed the use of the name "Metro." Nice find, @Charlotte. (You may want to save that image before it's made to disappear.)

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 31 October 2012 - 11:56 PM.


#1221
JorgeA

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Wow, I never thought touch could be valuable and important in a laptop.

Yeah, they must have been trying to be flattering to their guest, or at least polite. More than two seconds' thought is enough to realize that touch can't be important on a laptop PC -- in fact, it's a detriment, as anyone can determine for himself by placing a laptop on their thighs and actually trying to touch the raised screen repeatedly for an extended period of time. The angle and distance are just wrong.

Then again, considering how awful the ergonomics are, maybe the orthopedic surgeons' society invested in MSFT to push "touch" on desktop and laptop computers, figuring that it would increase their patient base...

On a tablet, maybe, but not on a laptop PC.

--JorgeA

#1222
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Dvorak pretty much mirrors what many of us have said here, that the RT version of Windows 8 uses extremely deceptive naming to the average computer purchaser ...

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33642_7-57454524-292/just-what-is-windows-rt-anyway-faq/

From that article:

• There doesn't seem to be a way to visually distinguish a Windows RT tablet from a Windows 8 tablet, which could lead to buyer confusion, to put it mildly.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 31 October 2012 - 11:55 PM.


#1223
JorgeA

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Yeah sales of Windows 8. This cannot even be compared to Vista... Now my market is not to cater to retail type end users... but well there seems to be "passing" interest from customers about Windows 8, but people just aren't putting the money where their mouth is. I can't really say much more than that... but suffice it to say that I expected at least a Vista level of first day sales.

My observation is purely anecdotal, but I've been to five different computer stores in the last week, and there hasn't exactly been a rush of prospective buyers flocking to learn what Windows 8 is all about.

--JorgeA

#1224
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Recall from only a few days ago ...

Microsoft Design Language is the new "Metro" ( NeoWin 2012-10-29 )

Then there was this a day later ...

The curious case of Microsoft's Metro, a design language that cannot be spoken ( The Verge 2012-10-30 )

And there was this yesterday ...

Metro apps renamed Windows Store apps ( CNet 2012-10-31)

Are you confused? Yep. Here is a great summary of this mess ...

Nobody knows what to call Microsoft's ex-Metro UI. Not even Microsoft, it seems ( UK Register 2012-11-31 )

When asked to clarify the situation, Tschumy offered little insight into why company staffers are no longer allowed to utter the M-word.

"I'm not going to get into the details of why we're not doing that anymore," Tschumy said, but added that the correct term for apps built based on Microsoft's new UI style is "Windows 8 Store Apps."

That's actually slightly more of a mouthful than we've been told previously – and we've been told several things – and Tschumy himself stumbled over the awkward phrasing as he was pressed with further questions.


The article has lots more quotes from him, and you can't help but get the feeling that this could be a transcript from a hostile witness taking the Fifth Amendment. But over what? What is the big secret requiring such masterful obfuscation? Beats me. But don't they realize that developers and stockholders are listening and reading about this wondering just what kind of crazy chemical has been released into the water supply in Redmond. You would think by now that someone would realize how this looks because Perception is Reality.

There is also this gem ...

Speaking at the annual Build developer conference in Redmond this week, Microsoft Principal User Experience Advisor Will Tschumy said the company has been investing heavily in design since 2003, to the tune of $20bn per year.

Those efforts resulted in the Office 2007 and 2010 revamps, he said, and culminated in . . . well, in whatever you call the Windows 8 look and feel.


Now there was money well-spent. :no:

At the end of the Verge article is a little update ...

Update: Microsoft has reached out to us to clarify that Tschumy misspoke when describing new apps as Windows 8 Store applications. "The correct nomenclature is 'Windows Store Apps' says a Microsoft spokesperson. The confusion continues.


You can't make this stuff up.

EDIT: added another quote

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 01 November 2012 - 12:15 PM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1225
JorgeA

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Speaking at the annual Build developer conference in Redmond this week, Microsoft Principal User Experience Advisor Will Tschumy said the company has been investing heavily in design since 2003, to the tune of $20bn per year.


I'm no design professional, but give me 0.1% of that $20 billion and I can come up with something more attractive than that Start Screen, and then they can distribute the balance to the company shareholders. But then, I'm not a design professional...

Oh, and after four years of daily use I'm still hunting and pecking my way through the Office Ribbon.

Update: Microsoft has reached out to us to clarify that Tschumy misspoke when describing new apps as Windows 8 Store applications. "The correct nomenclature is 'Windows Store Apps' says a Microsoft spokesperson. The confusion continues.


LOL, even their Principal User Experience Advisor can't get the name right.

So, MSFT would have us say, "Desktop IE was fine, but I couldn't download the file through Windows Store Apps Internet Explorer"? Have they even tried to verbalize all these syllables, or to see if they even make any sense -- Windows Store Apps IE, what?!

--JorgeA




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