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Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions


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#1251
jaclaz

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But, to borrow CharlotteTheHarlot's car concept, Microsoft apparently has decided that everybody should ultimately be driving a Smart Car (or a Geo Metro :w00t: ), regardless of what they want the vehicle (the OS) for.

But, as already mentioned a Smart Car would run a Smart GOOD, REAL TIME OS, such as QNX:
http://www.qnx.com/

For a comparison between a Porsche 911 GT3, a Toyota Hi-Lux and a wheel-barrow :w00t: see here:
http://www.911cd.net...pic=24502&st=12

jaclaz


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#1252
JorgeA

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Here's a video review of Windows 8. Be sure to check out the discussion of the search function behavior starting at about 20:25, and of annoyances with scrolling at about 21:35.

Also, apparently they found an ad inside the weather Metro app.



--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 07 November 2012 - 11:14 AM.


#1253
JorgeA

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Steve Ballmer was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal (October 30). Here's an excerpt relevant to our thread:

Q. "How has reception been for Windows 8 and the Surface tablet in the first few days?"

SB: "Numerically there's not really much that's interesting. If you were to call the retailers, they would say, 'Hey, off to a very good start.' We're out of stock a lot of places on touch machines." [emphasis added]

--JorgeA

#1254
jaclaz

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Steve Ballmer was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal (October 30). Here's an excerpt relevant to our thread:

Remember me to file this under "News" :whistle:

http://www.msfn.org/...ost__p__1016580
;)

jaclaz

#1255
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Windows 8 Users Receiving How-to Emails From Microsoft ( Tom's Hardware 2012-11-07 )

The first e-mail, entitled "Getting Started with Windows," offers advice on utilizing the OS' revamped Start screen through a brief description of Live Tiles. ...

The second e-mail, meanwhile, is dubbed "Personalize your Windows". It shows users how to customize their Start screen, download new apps from the Windows store, work with built-in apps and create a picture password.


Well this is so, so much better than having built-in help available by pressing F1 ( or is that ALT+FN+F1 :whistle: ), or perhaps built-in tutorials ( the kind that are always available, not just on first login ), or simple plain intuitive GUI elements and yes, discoverability. What is very strange that they begin suddenly sending these helpful Emails a week later after launch. I mean this experiment has been ongoing for over one year now, I would think that it would have been scheduled immediately with launch. One week later indicates to me that something has happened between then and now. File this under "things that make you go hmmmmm".


Editorial: Will 2013 be Microsoft's biggest year ever? ( NeoWin 2012-11-07 )

It will be their biggest something. However I do not think it will be something they, or the sycophants hope for.


AT&T off contract Lumia 920 only $450 ( NeoWin 2012-11-07 )

Now at first glance this does sound almost reasonable, definitely a marked improvement over the $700 to $800 price tag alleged in stories seen in a few earlier posts. However, this is definitely partially subsidized by AT&T. More importantly, it is the bare phone which does not include high priced charger gadgets. It looks like the thing + charger will be a minimum of $550 to $600 range off-contract. That is still a lot of dough. I was going to say that you might instead buy a very good 17" laptop or killer desktop instead for the same amount of money, but even that may not be possible since the net result of the fabulous Windows 8 era is dragging prices UPWARD not downward. The bulk of the offerings at the moment are Windows 8 based. God forbid if OEMs completely switch over. The long-running trend of more power and performance at a lower cost year after year will have ended thanks to Microsoft and their toy operating system. Thanks guys! :realmad:


Sad News: Microsoft Currently Has No Plans for Halo 4 PC ( Tom's Hardware 2012-11-07 )

Inching towards that walled-garden. Slow cooking frogs will shrug their shoulders again. Don't believe it? Well there are allegedly 1.3 Billion computers using Windows and there are a total of 24 Million Xbox sales total. If you have some software that is RTM and ready for sale, why on Earth would you choose to limit the maximum pool of purchasers to 24 Million and leave the 1.3 Billion alone? Obviously the plan is to get them to access the game through Windows 8 Metro via the store eventually. I have no doubt that at least a few sane business people at Microsoft pushed for a Windows PC release in addition to Xbox. Imagine the contortions those that shot it down had to go through to justify the limitation. May this fail spectacularly.


Preliminary teardown suggests Surface RT is more profitable than iPad ( TechSpot 2012-11-07 )

A new report from IHS iSuppli suggests that Microsoft’s Surface RT tablet is more profitable than Apple’s iPad. The company’s preliminary teardown report on a 32GB Surface with the optional black touch cover reveals a bill of materials (BOM) of $271.00. That figure increases slightly to $284 after manufacturing expenses are applied.

Microsoft sells the 32GB Surface RT with touch cover for $599 which equates to about $315 in profit on the hardware alone. According to the teardown experts, this shows that manufacturing profits are higher, in percentage terms, than Apple’s entry-level $499 iPad.

... IHS also estimates that it costs Microsoft no more than $18 to manufacture the touch cover, an accessory that tacks on $100 to the price of the 32GB Surface RT tablet.


Succumbing to Apple-envy, the transition to MicroApple is well underway now. The business model Apple pioneered and that Microsoft longs for is selling mediocre quality hardware at premium prices portrayed as trendy and fashionable boutique technology. It is quite simple to do. Just farm out construction to the lowest bidder by nailing down contracts with 3rd-world near-slave labor, take the money you save there and spend it on Madison Avenue advertising firms to whitewash the disparity, and create an image of a purely American made device just yearning to be clicked and swiped by eager throngs of hipsters twittering and facebooking their way to their next Starbucks nonfat Vanilla-Blueberry Latte Grande. The plan might work, for a short while. They picked the wrong time economically though, and I imagine there are some rather large fiscal crises upcoming in shot order. The other problem is that the world is more connected than ever before. Apple has not been able to yet get out from under the FoxConn worker suicide situation, and the news will only get worse over time. The opportunity for fail here for Microsoft is very high, especially since they are tone-deaf and prone to making huge errors under Ballmer. I see a very narrow path to success here with many possible detours into trouble for Microsoft.


Microsoft Patent Lets Hollywood Watch You with Camera ( Tom's Hardware 2012-11-06 )

In Microsoft patent, Kinect watches you ( NeoWin 2012-11-07 )

A content presentation system and method allowing content providers to regulate the presentation of content on a per-user-view basis. Content is distributed an associated license option on the number of individual consumers or viewers allowed to consume the content. Consumers are presented with a content selection and a choice of licenses allowing consumption of the content. The users consuming the content on a display device are monitored so that if the number of user-views licensed is exceeded, remedial action may be taken.


And the slow-cooking frogs will still be silent, relaxing on their lilly-pads watching their facebook page and email live tiles. The two things I have noticed that most impacted Google's reputation over the past few years was the China episode ( collaborating with regime censorship ) and their many questionable data-mining and privacy violations. Never underestimate the power of ill-will. It has damaged Google's reputation for many people. So now we see something here far, far more Orwellian, at least in design. We all know it is a complete sell-out to the Hollywood mafia, almost all these companies will sell-out their users in a heartbeat when push comes to shove. Unfortunately for Microsoft, with their unique monopoly they are situated in a more precarious position and might pay a higher cost. At the very least, this Patent demonstrates extraordinary tone-deafness ( again! ) and tells me that the company has a serious problem in the boardroom. I don't know when, but there will be a Wall Street rocking shakeup in management eventually. The only possible good reason to Patent this would be if they announced they are: "freezing the concept so that it may never be used on their customers, ever". An act of significant benevolence for the computer user community. I have yet to see such an announcement. Welcome to MicroGoogle

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1256
JorgeA

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Steve Ballmer was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal (October 30). Here's an excerpt relevant to our thread:

Remember me to file this under "News" :whistle:

http://www.msfn.org/...ost__p__1016580
;)

jaclaz

LOL, I'm sure that if the sales figures were good he would have given them in the interview.

--JorgeA

#1257
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Jeez, I was just saying: "God forbid if OEMs completely switch over. The long-running trend of more power and performance at a lower cost year after year will have ended thanks to Microsoft and their toy operating system.". Then this story arrives ...

HP won't support Windows 8 to 7 downgrade on consumer PCs ( NeoWin 2012-11-08 )

Windows 7 will not be supported on these new platforms, and no drivers, apps, or Windows 7 content will be available through HP. If users choose to downgrade their HP consumer desktop or notebook system, HP will continue to support the hardware but if there is an issue where HP diagnostics are required OR it is determined that the loaded software or upgrade operating system is causing the issue, HP may suggest returning the system to the original Windows 8 OS that shipped with the computer.


Yep, this is how it happens, in small steps, just small enough so that the slow cooking frogs aren't disturbed from their comfortable warm baths. To be sure, OEM support for the operating system has always been a joke, and is the only thing actually sillier than Microsoft support of the OS since Windows is actually maintained by and only survives because of legions of unpaid non-softie tech people all over the world ( if you are reading this, you are most likely one of them ).

But there is also the very real issue of backroom deals that Microsoft engages in with OEMs which is exactly how they got their monopoly position in the first place. So what role did they play in this one? Are they instigating this or are they merely giving a wink and a nod? The most dangerous thing to the end-user that likely occurs in these backroom arrangements is Microsoft getting hardware builders to drop the previous DDK and only produce drivers for the next version of Windows. By hook or by crook they will get their planned obsolescence. And if you are an OEM what is the upside for producing drivers for previous versions of Windows ( e.g., motherboard drivers for XP or 7 )? None at all. By forgoing the previous OS they stay off of Microsoft's bad-side and get to push more hardware out the door.

At the risk of another auto analogy imagine if the car makers were able to completely shut down the new and used parts industry ( batteries, engine parts, everything ). You new car would be instantly obsolete, dead in the water when the first thing needed to be replaced. Not a perfect comparison ( they never are ) but the effect is identical, you would only be able to buy another car. This is what we have been dealing with when there is one operating system and the company that produces it has direct power over every one of the the component makers through driver development. Planned obsolescence is a fait accompli. No-one can tell OEMs to make drivers for different versions of Windows except for the customers themselves. This might be accomplished through the media and blogs criticizing them and by direct communication with email, letters and phone calls, in short by applying pressure and reminding them not to engage in collusion with a dangerous monopoly lest they become legal targets themselves.

It should be noted that HP is pretty much the perfect equivalent of Nokia in that it is a company in a very precarious position financially, practically on life support and is recklessly betting its entire future on Windows 8. Ironically in both cases, it won't actually be Windows 8 that takes them down should they collapse, but it will have been the straw that broke the camel's back. If and when these companies fail, there will be blowback on Microsoft, and even though it wouldn't be solely due to this, it will however be 100% deserved. That's Karma baby.



What is Decor8™? ( Stardock )

And another small piece of the Windows 8 mess gets mopped up by a 3rd party. This is a $4.99 program with a clever name. It only handles the Metro wallpaper, once again restoring what should have been a no-brainer all along. How could Microsoft and the OEMs like Dell and Acer and HP already forget the irate phone calls and Netbook returns from the many purchasers that could not change the wallpaper on Windows 7 Starter Edition?

Posted Image


Interview: Stardock's CEO talks about Decor8 for Windows 8 ( NeoWin 2012-11-08 )

Being able to change the Windows 8 Start screen background images seems to be a natural for Microsoft to support. Why do you think the company didn't put this kind of support in the first place?

Frankly, I'm baffled by it. Android and iOS devices all let you do this. I don't know why Microsoft would lock down something as basic as customizing the background of the Start screen.



Here is a larger screenshot ( PNG 3 MB ).

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1258
jaclaz

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@CharlotteTheHarlot
You are evidently not very familiar with mathematics/economy.
You would have to add the question:
Are you running Windows 7 or Windows 8?
to the list of questions that an underpayed, good willing but technically inexperiened help desk operator in an eastern country will have to ask calling customers .
That (and the customer answer after having checked) would increase the duration of the call by 10 to 15 seconds.
To that you should add the increased costs for the (non-)training of the help desk operators.
And drivers for BOTH 7 and 8? :w00t:
Those represent money, BIG bucks.

The new solution under study for HP support for windows 7 is a recorded message to the effect of:

Welcome to HP technical support.
If you called you are running WIndows 8 and you have an issue with it.
Windows 8 has NO issues whatsoever, you can ask Mr. Steve Ballmer about that.
Your particular installation was perfect but you somehow managed to make a mess of it.
Please re-install Windows 8 and reactivate it, your issues will be likely gone.
If they are not, please call again, adding to the phone number you just dialed the number on the back of the machine, the Windows 8 serial number and the activation code you just got when you re-installed, this way you will go through and talk to a human being (not necessary a knowledgeable one).
Have a nice day, HP wishes to thank you for the good hardware choice you made.


One size fits all!

Spoiler


jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 09 November 2012 - 08:34 AM.


#1259
PROBLEMCHYLD

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Welcome to HP technical support.
If you called you are running WIndows 8 and you have an issue with it.
Windows 8 has NO issues whatsoever, you can ask Mr. Steve Ballmer about that.
Your particular installation was perfect but you somehow managed to make a mess of it.
Please re-install Windows 8 and reactivate it, your issues will be likely gone.
If they are not, please call again, adding to the phone number you just dialed the number on the back of the machine, the Windows 8 serial number and the activation code you just got when you re-installed, this way you will go through and talk to a human being (not necessary a knowledgeable one).
Have a nice day, HP wishes to thank you for the good hardware choice you made.

I'm crying right now because its funny and its true.

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Believe Jesus Christ died for our sins.
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#1260
Tripredacus

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Jeez, I was just saying: "God forbid if OEMs completely switch over. The long-running trend of more power and performance at a lower cost year after year will have ended thanks to Microsoft and their toy operating system.". Then this story arrives ...

HP won't support Windows 8 to 7 downgrade on consumer PCs ( NeoWin 2012-11-08 )

Windows 7 will not be supported on these new platforms, and no drivers, apps, or Windows 7 content will be available through HP. If users choose to downgrade their HP consumer desktop or notebook system, HP will continue to support the hardware but if there is an issue where HP diagnostics are required OR it is determined that the loaded software or upgrade operating system is causing the issue, HP may suggest returning the system to the original Windows 8 OS that shipped with the computer.



There is a perfectly valid reason for them not doing this. There are new processes for OEMs with the Downgrade Rights program for Windows 8 than with previous versions of Windows. Its not surprising to me but it shows that HP isn't willing to spend the money to change their process in order to accomodate both OSes. Its purely a time vs money question... I'm sure HP could have figured it out, but they are playing it safe by not offering downgrades to Windows 7.
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#1261
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Following the previous story about HP and downgrade upgrade rights to Windows 7, the story has grown a bit. It appears that HP is not only stating they will discontinue making drivers for Windows 7, but they have now completely affirmed what I has only wondered about in passing two posts back: "God forbid if OEMs completely switch over. The long-running trend of more power and performance at a lower cost year after year will have ended thanks to Microsoft and their toy operating system.". Yes, they have taken the plunge headfirst into the Windows 8 whirlpool.

HP urges consumer customers not to downgrade new PCs to Windows 7 ( Gregg Keizer ComputerWorld 2012-11-08 )

HP warns consumers: Downgrade from Windows 8 to Windows 7 at your own risk, we won't support you ( Preston Gralla ComputerWorld 2012-11-08 )

HP Warns Customers Not To Downgrade Win 8 PCs to Win 7 ( Tom's Hardware 2012-11-09 )

"HP does not recommend downgrading on any HP consumer desktop and notebook products. After October 26, 2012, HP consumer desktop and notebook products will ship only with Windows 8. Windows 7 will not be supported on these new platforms, and no drivers, apps, or Windows 7 content will be available through HP. If users choose to downgrade their HP consumer desktop or notebook system, HP will continue to support the hardware but if there is an issue where HP diagnostics are required OR it is determined that the loaded software or upgrade operating system is causing the issue, HP may suggest returning the system to the original Windows 8 OS that shipped with the computer."



So the issue here, as I suspected, clearly transcends mere "downgrade rights". Either Microsoft got their hooks into them or we are seeing another classic corporate blunder - going all in on a new product, one that has the highest degree of controversy associated with it possible. That is not the mark of a careful corporate decision. Also note the word: "HP consumer desktop and notebook products will ship only with Windows 8". This is key. They know full well that the corporate world that buys thousands of PCs will not be unanimously choosing Windows 8, and many will avoid it altogether.

So what does this tell us about HP ( and/or Microsoft ) and their feelings for consumers by mandating Windows 8 for them but leaving the door open for Windows 7 on volume purchases? I really want to hear the rationalizations from the sycophants now. It couldn't be clearer to me that both HP and Microsoft have utter contempt for the non-corporate consumer. And I believe we should reciprocate in kind by showing them utter contempt ( okay, I already do :lol: ). Boycott HP. I cannot wait to watch them collapse.

Someone at HP is clearly deserving of a Darwin Ballmer Award.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1262
CharlotteTheHarlot

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No DirectX 11.1 for Windows 7 planned? ( NeoWin 2012-11-09 )

Microsoft has "no plan" to release DirectX 11.1 for Windows 7 ( TechSpot 2012-11-12 )

In a recent post on the Microsoft Answers forum, Microsoft employee Daniel Moth stated, "DirectX 11.1 is part of Windows 8, just like DirectX 11 was part of Windows 7. DirectX 11 was made available for Vista .... but at this point there is no plan for DirectX 11.1 to be made available on Windows 7."

We contacted Microsoft to get an official response but a spokesperson told us, " ... we have nothing further to share."


Hmmmm, discontinuing Service Packs, freezing Direct-X, at some point the accumulated weight of these "sky isn't falling" decisions will wakeup the sleepy people to realize the paradigm shift is not confined only to the Windows 8 GUI. I think it is safe to say that Microsoft has as much contempt for Windows 7 now that they previously had for Vista and XP. IMHO, this contempt for their loyal customers began with the nastiness found in the Vista development blog when that release began receiving horrible reviews and comments. Microsoft then hunkered down, adopted an "us versus them" attitude, launched the phony Mojave Experiment, setting the stage for their Apple-esque style arrogance best described as "the customer is always wrong". This is not a healthy situation. What is interesting and has been often noted right in this thread is that they are attacking in different ways all three legs of their own success: OEM manufacturers, software developers, and the customers. There is a word for this: suicide.

Microsoft restricts DirectX 11.1 to Windows 8 ( PC Gamer 2012-11-12 )

It's like Microsoft is daring me to go Linux.

:lol: :yes: :lol:

For Now, DirectX 11.1 Will Only Be for Windows 8 ( Tom's Hardware 2012-11-15 )

Microsoft gives in; adds some DirectX 11.1 features to Windows 7 ( NeoWin 2012-11-5 )

Some DirectX 11.1 Features Confirmed for Windows 7 ( Tom's Hardware 2012-11-15 )

Backtracking already?


Surface users report Touch Cover splits and audio issues ( The Verge 2012-11-09 )

Surface early adopters reporting issues with audio, Touch Cover ( TechSpot 2012-11-09 )

Some splitting Surface Touch Covers reported [Update] ( NeoWin 2012-11-09 )

Microsoft Surface Touch keyboards self-destruct – and more ( UK Register 2012-11-09 )

( I realize this has already been mentioned in another thread here but I figured it should be mentioned here since this thread has kind of a time-capsule feel to it ). Well that didn't take long now did it? Less than two weeks after launch and the tide may already be turning. It appears there are at least two problems now with the Surface, the separation of the Touch Cover and an audio problem also. The thing about the Touch Cover ( the one that they forgot to add the function key labels to :lol: ) is not surprising to me since we recently learned of the Apple-esque high profit margin: "... IHS also estimates that it costs Microsoft no more than $18 to manufacture the touch cover, an accessory that tacks on $100 to the price of the 32GB Surface RT tablet.". Did anyone really think that these problems would not ( pardon the pun ) surface? I mean we all saw the commercials with smiling yuppies tossing, clicking, flipping and whipping the device around held by the cover itself? Similarly, does anyone still doubt that the commercials showing lots of swiping on desktop computer screens without an associated disclaimer ( "swiping requires a touch screen" ) will also lead to customer complaints? Count on it. At least for their part Microsoft is reportedly handling this problem very well, allowing simple swaps for new replacements. Of course that is plain common sense at this point because doing anything less will lead to destruction of what remains of their reputation. It must be said that this could have been avoided if they had not pursued a political strategy all along, by keeping the Surface completely out of the hands of reviewers until two weeks ago, just like a candidate ducking debates and public appearances because of fear they will make a faux paux. Had there been units in reviewers and developers hands for a couple of months these quality issues would certainly have come to light. Now we must wonder what surprises will the Surface Pro bring since they are using precisely the same strategy there once again.


Man charged with selling lots of counterfeit Microsoft software ( NeoWin 2012-11-09 )

Computerworld.com reports that Bruce Alan Edward, 48, of Atlanta, Michigan, was arraigned on Thursday in federal court. He has been charged with selling counterfeit copies of both Windows XP Professional and Office 2003 Professional via eBay.

The report claims that Edward sold a total of 2,500 copies of the software products between May 2008 and September 2010. Normally, the total amount that Microsoft would have taken in from the legitimate sales of the software would have been over $1.2 million. Edward received $140,000 for selling the unauthorized Microsoft software.


Please don't mis-interpret, I do not support piracy, but the bolded quotes there certainly beg the question: how could they really say with a straight face that "Microsoft would have taken in from the legitimate sales of the software would have been over $1.2 million" when they themselves killed the products in almost all channels ( there might be some obscure method to still purchase them ). Wouldn't it just be terrific if the judge were to press Microsoft on this and challenge them. This kind of thing needs to be tested IMHO. No, not the fact that the perp was collecting money for something he did not write, that is not in question to anyone, but the crazy claims of lost revenue from not just Microsoft, but most of Hollywood and the RIAA mafia as well. You would think that this issue would handle itself anyway since both of these products are activation-based. Theoretically the perp was just selling duplicates of install media that should have been made available for ISO download by Microsoft for the sake of convenience all along. None of this is explained by the news stories. I would expect that there are 2,500 angry customers out there wondering why the copies they bought cannot be activated.

EDIT: oops, corrected link to wrong story. Also typo, Added Links

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 16 November 2012 - 01:28 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1263
CharlotteTheHarlot

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The Next Twenty Years: Why the closed distribution model of Windows 8 must be changed for the sake of developers, consumers, and Microsoft itself. ( Casey Muratori 2012-10-08 )

Review: Windows 8 tries to unite two worlds and ends up botching them both ( Digital Trends 2012-10-25 )

Analyzing the Windows 8 Metro/Desktop interface train wreck ( ExtremeTech 2012-10-31 )

Three Windows 8 commentaries and reviews that I forgot to mention earlier. These are just three of many that are out there but are still swamped by the tsunami of fluff pieces. The first one has a point of view from a developer and in Appendix B he picks apart and analyzes the new situation regarding Apps designed for Metro.



Windows 8-based RetroUI gets update to RetroUI Pro (NeoWin 2012-11-10 )

Another Start Menu replacer with a twist. This one also has the ability to add the taskbar to Metro. Jorge, you may want to add this to the collection if you haven't already.

Posted Image


As usual though, the interesting thing to me is found in the reactions. Fence-sitters please take note. The leadoff comment is IMHO representative of most complaints about Windows 8 and Metro ...

This stuff should have been in Windows 8 from the start if you ask me. Give people the option to go back to a persistent taskbar and make Metro apps able to run windowed if you'd want to and everyone would be happy.



And that of course is immediately followed by MicroZombie arrogance which nicely encapsulates their attitude and contempt towards us ...

If you give people the option to go back, they will never switch. See the classic start menu that survived all the way until Windows 7.



Yep, take away freedom of choice. Force them to switch. Not to be out-done, another Zombie with a real penchant for Micro-Kookiness shows how their thought-process works ...

This stuff should have been in Windows 8 from the start if you ask me.

I wouldn't be happy if Windows 8 was like that, and I reckon that some other people wouldn't be, too. Microsoft have displeased you and others by doing what they've done, but they would displease me and probably others by implementing it this way. I'm not sure of any way they could have implemented it to make everyone happy.

If Windows was still like Windows 7 (i.e. allowing windows to overlap and being able to have many windows on screen at once, I probably wouldn't still be using Windows. I was ready to switch to a Mac, until I heard about the new Windows 8 experience.



That is marvelous cognitive dissonance really, especially that last sentence saying that if they had been given choice ( overlapping Windows, et al, ) they would turn to Macintosh! :lol: I'm starting to think that the Windows 8 and Metro issue is moving from being a Rorschach test to an IQ test instead.

It seems clear to me that on one-hand we have the long-time professionals that have used everything since the beginning from DOS, to text-mode launchers, to graphics-mode menu systems, to official Windows 3.x and of course finally the Win95 era, including those users that got onboard this paradigm at various points along the way. On the other hand we have the non-discerning mega-consumers who are Facebook and Angry Birds junkies spouting selfish anti-choice dictatorial opinions whom would all be right at home using Apple Mac systems and who are only interested in flashy, trendy, consumption based gadgets that became popular around the iPod era when people first started segregating themselves into these two camps - quality vs. consumption. This was pretty well illustrated by the "it's good-enough" attitude displayed by ignorant acceptance of MP3 and similar inferior audio formats ( though admittedly could be acceptable if created carefully ). To sum up, these people will bend over and accept anything and are a very desirable demographic to crap companies selling crap.

The question is this ... How can two such diametrically opposite camps be satisfied by one product? Well they can't obviously!. Leaving aside the forced solution of ant-choice arrogance that these dictators would love to see, the only good solution was for choice all along. Microsoft should have developed a product for them and then watched to see if it could stand on its own feet. Of course we all know what the outcome would have been, we have discussed it in this very thread on multiple occasions. It would have failed. So we have the dictatorial solution in progress. Slow cooking frogs wake up! This thing must fail for the good of everyone.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1264
JorgeA

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Windows 8-based RetroUI gets update to RetroUI Pro (NeoWin 2012-11-10 )

Another Start Menu replacer with a twist. This one also has the ability to add the taskbar to Metro. Jorge, you may want to add this to the collection if you haven't already.

Done, thank you! :) Looks like a pretty strong, versatile candidate.

If you give people the option to go back, they will never switch. See the classic start menu that survived all the way until Windows 7.


OMG, what a horrible fate it was that the Start Menu managed to make it all the way to Win7!! :rolleyes:

What's the deal with these eStalins who can't bear the thought of us doing things OUR way -- don't they understand the concept of choice?

--JorgeA

#1265
JorgeA

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The puff pieces at Neowin continue:

Windows 8 defeated 85% of malware out of the box

The spin doctors hard at work. The piece misleads the casual reader into thinking that Windows 8 is somehow inherently more secure than Windows 7, when in fact what's happening is that Win8 comes with a full-featured antivirus program, whereas Win7 ships with only an anti-malware application. Tack full-featured AV to Win7, as MS could well do if it chose to, and you're good to go.

In any case, as a Win8 purchaser you'd better think seriously about buying a real AV solution anyway -- MSE's 85% detection rate is pretty crummy these days; most reputable security suites will catch upwards of 95% of threats. So in that sense the inexpert user could be lulled into a false sense of safety, and come to regret it before long.

--JorgeA

#1266
JorgeA

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And now for a post PRAISING Neowin for a good critique of Windows 8 usability:

Editorial: Things that suck about Windows 8 on a desktop

The writer begins (and ends) by establishing his bona fides as a Win8 fan, but the meat of the article consists of a detailed list of annoyances and frustrations with various functions and settings in the new OS, including (among other things) the app switcher, the search function, the Charms bar, and the tutorial. Well worth reading, especially for those who are on the fence thinking about buying Windows 8.

Then there's some things it simply doesn't find at all. Search for "task scheduler" and nothing comes up, but if you search for "schedule tasks" and then click on Settings it finds the appropriate function which then opens the Task Scheduler. What?! This is in no way user friendly, and makes it harder to access and find things you're actually looking for!


The final thing that sucks about Windows 8 on desktop PCs is that the OS doesn't seem to recognize that the PC doesn't have a touchscreen as part of the setup. There are references to touchscreens littered throughout the OS, including saying to "tap" rather than "click", and "swipe" rather than "drag". There's even a reference in PC Settings to a function desktop PCs don't have, which is swiping from the left to switch to a recent app.


Attached File  swipe.jpg   24.29KB   4 downloads
(the caption reads: "Go ahead and try to do that...")

I can think of two possible explanations for this head-scratcher, neither of which is very encouraging: it reveals either (1) incompetence, or (2) an intention/projection that real PCs will go away entirely and eventually the computing public will be left with nothing but toy devices.

The OS is so bad that the writer felt compelled to add this at the end...

Clarification: It was not my intention to blindly bash Windows 8 on desktop PCs

...but of course, for serious PC users it's very difficult not to bash Windows 8 for its annoyances and limitations.

--JorgeA

#1267
jaclaz

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I need to spend a few words in defense of the good MS guys :w00t:

If anyone reads this thread he/she may get the idea that suddenly the good MS guys became complete morons.

This is not the case, to tell the truth they have always been like that :ph34r: and over the years have introduced, in each and every OS, some senseless feature or stupid quirk (as well as omitting needed information, over-inform on trifling aspects noone cares about, misinform on many topics, fail to fix evident and often admitted issues).

The difference is that over the years we got used to the quirks, senseless choices and what not because each one - senseless as it might be - was an evolution of a previous senseless feature or of a known stupid quirk, what changed this time is that they introduced a whole bunch of completely new senseless features and many new stupid quirks and we are fed up :realmad: with having to adapt to their (distorted) view of computing and find new workarounds additional to the hundreds or thousands we were forced to invent, discover or get used to over the years.

So, most probably it's not like they changed, it is us: we are evolving.... :yes:

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 11 November 2012 - 09:43 AM.


#1268
CharlotteTheHarlot

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If anyone reads this thread he/she may get the idea that suddenly the good MS guys became complete morons.

This is not the case, to tell the truth they have always been like that :ph34r: and over the years have introduced, in each and every OS, some senseless feature or stupid quirk (as well as omitting needed information, over-inform on trifling aspects noone cares about, misinform on many topics, fail to fix evident and often admitted issues).

The difference is that over the years we got used to the quirks, senseless choices and what not because each one - senseless as it might be - was an evolution of a previous senseless feature or of a known stupid quirk, what changed this time is that they introduced a whole bunch of completely new senseless features and many new stupid quirks and we are fed up :realmad: with having to adapt to their (distorted) view of computing and find new workarounds additional to the hundreds or thousands we were forced to invent, discover or get used to over the years.

:thumbup Truer words were never spoken. :thumbup

You've said it all.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1269
vinifera

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no, we are not evolving (depends per person)
masses are more to bend over and take it up the a**

I for one will never go using win8, nor 9 if it continues 8's path

problem with masses is that they accepted the fate of "oh well there is nothing I/we can do so I/we will just shut up and use it"
and most sad thing that there are no good alternatives to easy OS which is compatible with most hardware and runs most games like Windows does

but being sold out to me isn't evolution, its bending over

Edited by vinifera, 11 November 2012 - 08:54 PM.

If you want true Windows user experience
try Longhorn builds: 3718, 4029, 4066

#1270
helpdesk98

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I will use is start menu or no start menu, because it is my job! personally I think removing the start menu was a bad idea (they could have at least waited until metro was introduced instead killing it on the spot, but it happened). I work for a small home pc repair company we have received call to upgrade systems and give training for the new os. So because of W8 I have work this makes me happy.

#1271
JorgeA

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no, we are not evolving (depends per person)
masses are more to bend over and take it up the a**

I for one will never go using win8, nor 9 if it continues 8's path

problem with masses is that they accepted the fate of "oh well there is nothing I/we can do so I/we will just shut up and use it"
and most sad thing that there are no good alternatives to easy OS which is compatible with most hardware and runs most games like Windows does

but being sold out to me isn't evolution, its bending over

Hear, hear!

Although, I'm a little more hopeful than that. It remains to be seen just how well Windows 8 sells, and how the broader computing public receives it. It's interesting that Hewlett-Packard, one of the biggest PC vendors, already felt compelled to announce that it would tolerate but not support UPgrades to Win7.

--JorgeA

P.S. I noticed the message in your signature. How can anybody do that in 2012? And wouldn't MSFT frown on it?

Edited by JorgeA, 11 November 2012 - 10:15 PM.


#1272
JorgeA

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I will use is start menu or no start menu, because it is my job! personally I think removing the start menu was a bad idea (they could have at least waited until metro was introduced instead killing it on the spot, but it happened). I work for a small home pc repair company we have received call to upgrade systems and give training for the new os. So because of W8 I have work this makes me happy.

Hmm, maybe you can add one of the many Start Menu+Button replacements to your service's "bag of tricks." ;)

--JorgeA

#1273
JorgeA

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Here's a perceptive commentary on the idea that we are entering a "post-PC era" supposedly heralded by the rise of tablets:

The idea that PCs would be made irrelevant by portable consumption devices is asinine. Professional photo/video/sound/etc. editing isn't going away and isn't going to suddenly jump to 10 inch tablets. The real problem, imo, has been that so many people bought computers almost solely to consume content (music, video, web, etc.). Now that we have proper devices for consumption it's not surprising that a lot of people aren't buying big, bulky systems just to read their e-mail or participate on Facebook. If anything, all we've seen is a necessary correction in the market, made possible by a new 'class' of devices.

(Comment by "HydrantHunter")

--JorgeA

#1274
jaclaz

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Cannot say if already posted, if yes, sorry, otherwise interesting (poll on adoption of Windows 8 asked to Techrepublic members):
http://www.techrepub...-windows-8/6828

An interesting point is the difference in percentage by nation/country. (possibly driven by the HP help desk needs ;))


The actual report is for member only, though:
http://www.techrepub...tegies/32565796

As an OT note:
How many "external" input devices does the MS Surface use?
How many of them have seemingly a big driver issue?
http://news.softpedi...ue-305508.shtml
Seemingly we can use UNARY :w00t: to reply to both questions.... :whistle:

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 12 November 2012 - 10:51 AM.


#1275
Shane

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On the whole Neowin is full of sycophants, it's not worth going there if you want an informed discussion about technology. Especially if you use Google stuff, then they're openly hostile. I'm glad there's a bit more open mindedness here at MSFN.

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