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Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions


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#1276
CharlotteTheHarlot

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On the whole Neowin is full of sycophants, it's not worth going there if you want an informed discussion about technology. Especially if you use Google stuff, then they're openly hostile. I'm glad there's a bit more open mindedness here at MSFN.

Absolutely true. Thing is, the owner NeoBond isn't a child like so many ( maybe most ) of the commenters, he just happens to benefit from the controversy and has allowed the site to degenerate. For me it is difficult now to comment over there because beating sense into their little heads is probably considered child abuse in some country somewhere. :lol:

Anyway, it's good that there are many sources of news and commentary. Here are just a few of many that I try to hit often to keep a fair balance ...

NeoWin ... MicroZombies extraordinaire.
Register (UK) ... more open source feel, Linux, Android etc. PC and Mac fanboys get slammed.
PC World and CNet ... more Mac, Android, Linux than PC nowadays, but with frequent exceptions
TechSpot and Tom's Hardware ... PC and Windows for sure, but absolutely anti-sycophantic
PC Magazine ... more neutral these days between PC and Mac, used to be much more pro-PC
The Verge ... pretty hard to pigeon-hole. Eccentric?
Maximum PC and PC Gamer ... definitely PC, both with emphasis on performance.
Ars Technica ... PC, Android, Apple, probably in that order.
AnandTech ... PC Hardware mostly, some Apple of course

Everything I just said is debatable though, depending upon your PoV and bias, and also on when you visit. For example, there are way more Windows features now than a few months ago for obvious reasons so many of the sites are slacking off on Android and even Apple at the moment.

One thing is for sure, the controversy with Windows 8 is present everywhere, even at NeoWin. I am pretty sure that I have never seen anything like this ever. The over-used word, unprecedented, just might be appropriate. If Microsoft defies all logic and barrels ahead without listening to all this criticism, it will be very bad for them, possibly only their reputation, but also possibly the corporation itself. The mighty have fallen before, no-one is immune.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...



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#1277
CoffeeFiend

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It seems like Sinofski's gone! Good riddance! Now if only they can fire Ballmer then perhaps there's still hope for Win9! Then again, Julie Larson-Green sems to be responsible for awful and dysfunctional UI design in Win8, so I wouldn't get my hopes up too much.

Edit: many other sites are now reporting that too, including Engadget. And here's Sinofski's letter. And MS' official PR regarding new leadership.
Coffee: \ˈkȯ-fē, ˈkä-\. noun. Heaven in a cup. Life's only treasure. The meaning of life. Kaffee ist wunderbar. C8H10N4O2 FTW.

#1278
JorgeA

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It seems like Sinofski's gone!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usfiAsWR4qU

One down, two to go...

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 12 November 2012 - 11:40 PM.


#1279
CharlotteTheHarlot

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A few recent articles to mention before everything gets swamped by the news of the resignation of Sinofsky. The possibly weak sales figures ( and the quality problems mentioned earlier ) may or may not be related to it.

Ballmer Claims Microsoft Surface RT Sales are off to a “Modest” Start ( Maximum PC 2012-11-11 )

Surface sales 'modest' so far, Ballmer modestly admits ( UK Register 2012-11-12 )

Microsoft: Ballmer's "Modest" Surface quote meant approach, not sales ( NeoWin 2012-11-12 )

Mixed signals on inital Windows 8 PC sales ( NeoWin 2012-11-12 )

Microsoft CEO: Windows Phone 8 Sales to 'Ramp Quickly' ( Tom's Hardware 2012-11-12 )


Another possible point of contention that so far has received very little publicity ...

Built-in advertising: The Windows 8 feature you haven't heard about ( TechSpot 2012-11-12 )


While unrelated to Windows 8 currently, there may future ramifications for Microsoft if the OEMs are indeed growing spines. So I am happy that Samsung took my suggestion ...

Samsung Bites Back at Apple by Jacking Up Chip Prices ( Maximum PC 2012-11-12 )

Samsung Increases Price For Apple's Processors ( Tom's Hardware 2012-11-13 )

EDIT: added link

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 14 November 2012 - 06:35 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1280
MagicAndre1981

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yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees, the Windows destroyer goes away :thumbup :thumbup :thumbup :thumbup :thumbup :thumbup This is THE BEST news since months/years :)
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#1281
xpclient

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Rejoice and cheers for Sinofsky going!!! But I don't trust Grandma Green either. She is responsible for ALL the UI blunders at Microsoft - Ribbon, Metro everything fullscreen nonsense. Whatever she touches is "re-imagined" and uber-dumbed down. She can't maintain continuity of anything apparently. Posted Image

Edited by xpclient, 13 November 2012 - 06:24 AM.

Impossible to run NT6 without third party fixes.


#1282
jaclaz

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On the OT news, the actual UK sentence (Apple vs. Samsung) reachable through one of the links by Charlottethehariot:
http://www.bailii.or.../2012/1882.html
is a masterpiece of clear, documented logical thinking :thumbup really interesting to read.

The essential points (bolded italics in the original as well):

(i) A rectangular, biaxially symmetrical slab with four evenly, slightly rounded corners;
(ii) A flat transparent surface without any ornamentation covering the entire front face of the device up to the rim;
(iii) A very thin rim of constant width, surrounding and flush with the front transparent surface;
(iv) A rectangular display screen surrounded by a plain border of generally constant width centred beneath the transparent surface;
(v) A substantially flat rear surface which curves upwards at the sides and comes to meet the front surface at a crisp outer edge
(vi) A thin profile, the impression of which is emphasised by (v) above;
(vii) Overall, a design of extreme simplicity without features which specify orientation

that were analyzed in detail and led to the:

Conclusion
The Samsung tablets do not infringe Apple's registered design No. 000181607-0001.


confirm the IMHO good synthesis provided by the Samsung guys about the US decision:

"It will lead to fewer choices, less innovation, and potentially higher prices," the company said in a written statement. "It is unfortunate that patent law can be manipulated to give one company a monopoly over rectangles with rounded corners, or technology that is being improved every day by Samsung and other companies.


jaclaz

#1283
CharlotteTheHarlot

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In addition to CoffeeFiend's links, some more coverage about the exit of Sinofsky. Note that the times of the articles are taken at face value from the webpages and we all know how accurate that can be :lol: ...

Microsoft Announces Leadership Changes to Drive Next Wave of Products ( Microsoft Press Release 2012-11-12 ) n/a
[quote] REDMOND, Wash. — Nov. 12, 2012 — Microsoft Corp. today announced that Windows and Windows Live President Steven Sinofsky will be leaving the company and that Julie Larson-Green will be promoted to lead all Windows software and hardware engineering. Tami Reller retains her roles as chief financial officer and chief marketing officer and will assume responsibility for the business of Windows. Both executives will report directly to Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer.

These changes are effective immediately.[/quote]
That should help the stock market :lol:

Windows Head Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft ( AllThingsD 2012-11-12 ) 8:31 pm
[quote] Microsoft declined to comment to us regarding the departure, although there's rumors of an uncanny parallel to Scott Forstall's departure at Apple -- AllThingsD claims that there was "growing tension" between Sinofsky and fellow executives. Whatever the reason Sinofsky left and regardless of where he's going, the move deprives Microsoft of an executive known for getting the development trains running on time.[/quote] Mussolini !?! :lol: Wow!

The Leader of Windows Exits Microsoft ( NY Times 2012-11-12 ) 8:36 pm
[quote] In an internal review of his job performance last year, Mr. Sinofsky was faulted for failing to make sure that Microsoft lived up to a 2009 agreement with European regulators to offer users an easy way to install competitive Web browsers in Windows, according to a filing with securities regulators.

Mr. Sinofsky was also faulted for a 3 percent decline in the revenue of Microsoft’s Windows business, long one of its most profitable divisions and the foundation for its strength in the personal computing market. As a result, Mr. Sinofsky received 60 percent of the bonus he was eligible to receive last year.[/quote]


Steven Sinofsky leaves Microsoft, Julie Larson-Green and Tami Reller take the Windows reins (update: Sinofsky email) ( EnGadget 2012-11-12 ) 8:42 pm
[quote] Sources have said the move came amid growing tension between Sinofsky and other top executives. Sinofsky, though seen as highly talented, was viewed at the top levels as not the kind of team player that the company was looking for. The move is likened by some to the recent ouster at Apple of iOS head Scott Forstall.[/quote]

Here's How Steve Ballmer Explained That Steve Sinofsky Is Leaving ( Business Insider 2012-11-12 ) 8:56 pm
[quote] The guy in charge of Microsoft's all-important Windows division, Steven Sinofsky, is out ... [/quote]

SOURCE: Sinofsky's Out At Microsoft Because He Wanted Steve Ballmer's Job ( Business Insider 2012-11-12 ) 9:30 pm
[quote] Sinofsky felt that he deserved to be Microsoft's next CEO, and wanted to be designated as Steve Ballmer's successor after Windows 8 shipped, according to this source's version of his ouster.

He threatened to quit if he didn't get the nod. Ballmer, who has previously indicated he plans to keep running Microsoft until he retires in 2017 or 2018, called his bluff.[/quote]


Windows President Steven Sinofsky Leaves Microsoft ( Maximum PC 2012-11-12 ) 9:45 pm
[quote] Sinofsky had a talent for turning even the most mundane new Windows feature into a 10,000 word blog post, but on his departure he would say only the following:

"It is impossible to count the blessings I have received over my years at Microsoft. I am humbled by the professionalism and generosity of everyone I have had the good fortune to work with at this awesome company."[/quote]


Windows boss Steve Sinofsky exits Microsoft ( UK Register 2012-11-12 ) 9:52 pm
[quote] Steven Sinofsky, who since 2009 has served as president of Microsoft's Windows and Windows Live divisions, has left the company less than a month after launching what Steve Ballmer called the most important operating system in Redmond's history.[/quote]

Windows Leadership Changes (Part-1) ( Thurrott 2012-11-12 ) 9:56 pm
[quote] The complete letter from Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to employees[/quote]

Windows Leadership Changes (Part 2) ( Thurrott 2012-11-12 ) 9:59 pm
[quote] Here's the complete letter from Steven Sinofsky to employees [/quote]

Sources inside Microsoft say a clash of personalities led to Sinofsky's departure ( The Verge 2012-11-12 ) 10:01:pm
[quote] Our sources have stopped short of calling Sinofsky's departure an outright firing, but it seems that there are few inside Microsoft's senior ranks that are sorry to see him go. [/quote]

Microsoft Announces Leadership Change: Sinofsky Out! ( Thurrott 2012-11-12 ) 10:30 pm
[quote] In a stunning and unexpected move, Microsoft announced Monday evening that president Steven Sinofsky, who had most recently lead the development of both Windows 8 and the Surface family of tablets, is leaving the company effective immediately. His most senior lieutenant, Julie Larson-Green, will lead all Windows software and hardware engineering going forward.[/quote]

Steven Sinofsky leaves Microsoft, effective immediately ( NeoWin 2012-11-12 ) ~12 hours ago
[quote] This departure is perhaps as surprising as the departure of Scott Forstall from Apple late last month, and the future of Microsoft's Windows division could be very different without Sinofsky at the head.[/quote]

Who are the people taking over Windows at Microsoft? ( NeoWin 2012-11-12 ) ~12 hours ago
[quote] The tech world is still reeling from the fact that Steven Sinofsky, who lead the Windows team at Microsoft for many years, has left the company just a few weeks after the launch of Windows 8 and Surface. So who are the people who will now be in charge of the Windows division?[/quote]

Here is one thing for sure: These things are never done on a Monday night. They are always done on Friday after the stock market closes, and when the media goes to sleep. So there is no way this is a planned move and really leans more towards "firing" than "resignation". No sane, publicly traded corporation allows this news at the beginning of the week because they have concerns and duties for their shareholders and employees. But this is Ballmer's Microsoft, one that is prone to errors, though even this one is hard to believe. Ballmer must be a grade-A incompetent to not be able to hold this off until the weekend or better yet, over the longer Thanksgiving holiday. The timing is stunning and reeks of incompetence.

So much speculation at the moment, and it's all over the place. All the so-called "sources" including Thurrott's are really doing is echoing the common knowledge available to anyone. Note that there is a self-identified Softie at the NeoWin thread ( perhaps he's just a wannabe though because he emits that pod-people characteristic I have personally seen in several ) but he really says nothing of value in multiple posts. The comments at all these stories is even more all over the map. I recommend the thread at The Verge and a bowl of popcorn.

The current agreement seems to be that Julie Larson-Green is just as bad ( or worse ) so this has nothing to do with Windows 8. So "don't worry! Metro and Office Ribbons are here to stay. Rejoice!" Well maybe, maybe not. Personally I see nothing to change my mind that Julie Larson-Green, Steven Sinofsky and Steve Ballmer are anything but the Three Stooges Seattle hipster edition sucking down Starbucks Lattes.

As many commenters have already said, Microsoft is really copying Apple now. :lol:

EDIT: Added links. Typos. See the New York Times link because it appears to have the most information so far. They imply Sinofsky was canned at least partially for the EU Browser Ballot mistake. This mistake was actually used by Microsoft's Board of Directors to punish Ballmer ( see upthread ). That is plausible to me. I still think Ballmer is a hugely incompetent CEO because he could not even manage to release this "resignation" news on a weekend.

EDIT: Hit the QUOTE limit? Who knew!

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 13 November 2012 - 10:27 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1284
jaclaz

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Just for the record, from http://www.businessi...leaving-2012-11

At the Windows launch in New York, at the Windows Phone event in San Francisco, and again at the Build event on Redmond campus, I was struck that while externally many people look at these events as the finish line, they really represent the starting line of a new era.


compare with ;)
http://reboot.pro/2398/#entry15859

To his classroom flooded with interested clients, the professor revealed his magic formula.
It was simple: in speaking of any things, facts or events you should, at any time and on every opportunity, announce with fervour (a.) that they give us reason for faith in the future, and (b.) that we should see whatever we are taking about not as an aim and an end, but as a new beginning.
Thus, for instance, a company director might announce successful achievements by saying that now we can look forward positively to the future and ask all those present to see this moment not as the end of their efforts but as the start of a new era of growth in the organisation; party members speaking at the funeral of a fellow politician might declare that the death of this special man is not an end but the beginning of a new life since the orphaned party will follow in his footsteps and so they may look forward to the future with confidence.

"The throng of listeners was pleasantly surprised - so it is that easy, we can all become good public speakers, this is an end to public stammering, we have achieved our aim.
The professor, suddenly grieving, started:
But this will not be your point of arrival, but a mere point of departure, the beginning of your new public life,....still, I see that your attitude is the right one, which gives me reason for faith in the future of your new accomplishments - the Professor Codaro concluded, and the crowd broke into appreciative applause."


:thumbup

:lol:

jaclaz

#1285
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Editorial: Windows without Sinofsky ( NeoWin 2012-11-12 ) ~3 hours ago

... However, that doesn't really explain why Sinofsky was so quick to leave, rather than Microsoft choosing to perhaps ease in the transition by letting Sinofsky stay on until, say, the end of 2012.. Microsoft also made the announcement of Sinofsky leaving the company late on Monday evening, well after the normal news announcement cycle. That's usually a big clue that the decision was done very quickly and was not part of a planned smooth exit.


I said that exact same thing earlier. :yes: See previous post. But he still doesn't understand it very well. Monday night may be after that day's "news cycle" but it precedes four more trading days, including the most infamous day of all: Tuesday. Market shaking news is never released on Monday unless it can not be controlled.

You can bet that the "Modern" touch screen UI will be improved for Windows 9 under Larson-Greeen. The big question: Will she decide to ditch the more open desktop UI for Windows 9 or continue to offer it for developers who don't want to bother with the new touch screen interface? Our guess is that the desktop will be done away with for the next version of Windows if Windows 8 is a success. If it is not, the desktop may be sticking around for a while longer.


No! Stop enabling them. You are wishing for total destruction of their biggest product. Children.

Our fantasy scenario? After taking a year off, Sinofsky joins Valve and helps to launch their Steam game console system. Yes, Valve co-founder Gabe Newell predicted that Windows 8 would be a "catastrophe" for the PC industry, but both he and Sinofsky are now former Microsoft employees who worked on versions of Windows. They might have more in common than even they might think.


Aw hell no! :no: I dare you to post that at real computer gaming sites.

EDIT: typo

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 13 November 2012 - 03:46 PM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1286
JorgeA

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"It will lead to fewer choices, less innovation, and potentially higher prices," the company said in a written statement. "It is unfortunate that patent law can be manipulated to give one company a monopoly over rectangles with rounded corners, or technology that is being improved every day by Samsung and other companies.

And that's the core problem -- the fact that something like that can be patented. :rolleyes:

--JorgeA

#1287
jaclaz

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And that's the core problem -- the fact that something like that can be patented. :rolleyes:

Now, now, don't be silly :w00t: OBVIOUSLY you cannot patent "rectangles with rounded corners" :no: , what you may attempt doing, if you are so clever as to call it "A rectangular, biaxially symmetrical slab with four evenly, slightly rounded corners" is this latter.... ;)

According to the UK judge :thumbup , if you attempt to do so, you fail anyway .

jaclaz

#1288
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Steven Sinofsky, Windows president, leaving Microsoft effective immediately ( Ars Technica 2012-11-12 ) 8:46 pm

The move is claimed to be a result of growing discontent within the software giant, with a number of executives reportedly unhappy when working with him due to his failure to be a "team player." Such a move has striking parallels with Scott Forstall's recent exit from Apple.



Windows head Steven Sinofsky leaves Microsoft ( PC World 2012-11-12 ) 9:29 pm

The timing of Sinofsky’s departure is surprising, given that it comes just weeks after the launch of Windows 8. Microsoft’s Windows 8 launch event was seen as underwhelming in some quarters, as it was a missed opportunity to connect with customers on changes to the new operating system.

That was hardly the only bump with the Windows 8 debut. After a strong initial weekend of upgrades to Windows 8, some reports indicate that customers are responding slowly to Windows 8, particularly with some of its interface changes.



Windows Boss Steven Sinofsky Out at Microsoft ( PC Magazine 2012-11-12 ) 9:46 pm

Barely two weeks after playing a prominent role in Microsoft's launch of Windows 8 and the Surface tablet, Redmond veteran Steven Sinofsky is out as head of the Windows Division, effective immediately.




At that Ars Technica thread they highlight one of their reader comments from a self-identified Softie. This is a snippet ...

He essentially tore apart both the Windows Media and then the Silverlight teams to get development teams to build Windows features in the Windows org. And he made Silverlight go away as a meaningful platform because it validated Mac and downlevel versions of Windows, and made it impossible to even communicate to partners about plans for the future of Silverlight and .NET. This lost him a whole lot of XAML/C#/.NET developers during the nearly year-long period they were waiting to eventually discover that those technologies were alive and well in Win8 and a peer to HTML5 for Metro app development.


This shows yet another aspect of the internal civil wars that must be ongoing. Win vs Dev. Win vs Win. Management vs Engineer. Pretty much every variation. Sprinkle in the contentious atmosphere alleged by the Vanity Fair article and you can safely say that Microsoft has evolved into the same position as big players of years past, like IBM. You might even say that they are overdue for a massive blowup since it only took 20+ years for IBM to create, develop, burn-out and self-destruct its PC division. No-one should doubt that Microsoft is equally capable of at-least partial suicide. Microsoft has been in the PC business nearly twice as long.

At the risk of piling on, Ballmer must be considered most responsible because only he could have allowed that atmosphere of competitive cannibalism to take root and flourish, and no-one else has the real power to remove the cancer cells at all levels in the company. We are seeing the Peter Principle in all its glory I'm afraid. An unfortunate consequence of this is that removing him now could very well make the problem even worse because all the remaining potentials are probably sycophants to Ballmer.

There is a lot of sympathy seen in the various comments for Sinofsky, many describing him as the best qualified or least offensive of the Three Stooges: Ballmer, Sinofsky and Green. I have no clue if that is true. Résumés don't tell the whole story. Having read most of Destroying Windows blog posts by Sinofsky I see no reason to believe he is not a shallow thinking yuppie true-believer willing to gamble Microsoft's largest product name for the sake of Apple-esque fortune and glory. Microsoft has owned a veritable cash money printing press with Windows. Naming all the people involved in corrupting that extremely important product would be useful information to know. Somehow I doubt that it will ever be revealed because it touches the very top including the Board of Directors and even billg himself who are at the very least enablers of Ballmer, if not complicit in the radical new direction. At the very least they are derelict in their duties to the corporation in keeping things under some semblance of control.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1289
MagicAndre1981

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Here is THE MUST HAVE APP, to make the Metro garbage usable:

http://blog.vectorfo...t-productivity/

Toolbox for Windows 8 Features

Truly responsive interface allowing for up to 6 different productivity tools to be viewed and manipulated at once
Unique incorporation with Snap View that allows tools to be swapped in/out in quick succession while working alongside another running app
9 included Tools with many more on the way
Customizable Toolsets allow you to save configurations for quick and easy access to your favorite workspaces
View multiple web pages side by side or view the time in 6 different cities with the ability to load multiple instances of each tool


Posted Image

Posted Image
Posted Image

#1290
jaclaz

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If I may, in this screenshot:
Spoiler

the ONLY productivity tool I can identiify is the calculator.
I am - admittedly - an old timer but I do:
  • wear a watch that I can have a look at (with a swift movement of my wrist ;)) when I want to know what time is
  • have always with me a (several years old) handy which I use to synchronize with my agenda on the PC and that emits nice alarm sounds when told to do so
  • do work in a place that has things called windows (wthout ™) that I use to sometimes look outside (this time with a quick and swift movement ;) of my head/eyes) to see what the weather is
  • have on the desk an (old but nowadays) incredibly valuable HP RPN pocket calculator with which I can do 56-6*9+(22/6) in half the time you could to say Jack Robinson
What remains as "productivity tool"?
Bing :w00t: and Facebook :ph34r:

Owww, comeon guys let's be serious. :lol:

Let's say that they could have used better examples for that visualization of "productivity tools" ... :whistle:

jaclaz

#1291
JorgeA

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Owww, comeon guys let's be serious. :lol:

Let's say that they could have used better examples for that visualization of "productivity tools" ... :whistle:

I guess the problem is that there AREN'T all that many productivity tools for Metro (not yet, anyway). The idea of Metro isn't to make you more productive, it's to make it easier to waste your time monitoring the weather, following your friends on Facebook -- and shopping. ;)

But MagicAndre has discovered something that could really save Windows 8 from itself, if the productivity applications ever materialize. It'll be like Windows 2.0...

Posted Image

...only less flexible than Win2, as the tiles can't overlap. In that sense, Windows 8, once enhanced by Andre's "Toolbox," approaches Windows 1.0 in screen functionality. :w00t:

(Note BTW the remarkable similarity in the selection of certain applications to show on the images for the Toolbox and for Windows 2.0.)

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 13 November 2012 - 03:25 PM.


#1292
CharlotteTheHarlot

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The Wall Street Journal as you might expect has already posted 9 different stories. This was only the first ...

Windows Head Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft ( WSJ 2012-11-12 ) 8:31 pm
[quote]Officially, Microsoft is saying that the move was a mutual decision by Sinofsky and the company.[/quote]

Microsoft Gives Windows 8 Chief the Boot ( Wired 2012-11-12 ) 9:51 pm
[quote] Microsoft isn’t just changing up its software, it’s revamping leadership. In a release Monday evening, Microsoft announced the departure of Steven Sinofsky, the chief architect of its newly launched Windows 8 operating system.[/quote]

Windows head Steven Sinofsky to leave Microsoft ( ComputerWorld 2012-11-13 ) 02:10 am
[quote] He added that Microsoft has so far been quiet about the sales performance of Windows 8 and of the company's Surface tablet, whose first models run a version of the OS called Windows RT designed for devices with ARM chips.

This relative silence "could be an indication that they did not meet expectations," Silver said.

Al Gillen, an IDC analyst, said Ballmer and the board may be second-guessing some bold bets Microsoft made with Windows 8, such as its radically-redesigned user interface.

The new UI uses square and rectangular tile icons to make it better for touch screens, such as those in tablets, and has a very different navigation scheme.

It could be that a critical mass of enterprise customers have given it the thumbs down, even though Windows 8 users can call up a traditional desktop UI, Gillen said.

"Frankly, that UI is enough of a paradigm shift that many enterprise customers will avoid the product for that reason alone," he said.

It wouldn't be surprising for Microsoft to make a point of converging the UI technology of Windows 7 and Windows 8 in the next release of the OS, he said.[/quote]


Sinofsky's departure due to politics or products? ( Mary Jo Foley ZDNet 2012-11-13 ) 02:26 am
[quote] Microsoft Windows President Steven Sinofsky's departure asks the question: Was it products or politics behind the move?[/quote]

Microsoft's Windows head, once a possible CEO, exits ( Reuters 2012-11-13 ) 08:32 am
[quote] The move was unexpected and neither Microsoft nor Sinofsky gave an explanation, although an executive at the company, who asked not to be named, said the decision was "mutual" and said he was not expecting Sinofsky to take a job at another company soon.

"This is shocking news. This is very surprising," said Brendan Barnicle, an analyst at Pacific Crest Securities. "Like a lot of people, I thought Sinofsky was in line to potentially be Ballmer's successor."[/quote]


Steven Sinofsky, head of Microsoft's Windows division leaves the company ( TechSpot 2012-11-13 ) 09:00 am
[quote] The sudden departure of Sinofsky evidently leaves a wide gap for speculation considering Windows 8 is barely out of the door and it’s not an ordinary release in the history of Windows. Whether he had decided to leave shortly after launch or not, it’s been rumored that an internal brawl between him and Steve Ballmer could be the real motivation for the departure. “I am grateful for the many years of work that Steven has contributed to the company,” Ballmer said in the official release.

Most recently it was speculated that Sinofsky was already working on the next generation of Windows and that he could be the most logical successor to take the reigns of Microsoft as CEO if Ballmer was to step aside.[/quote]


Windows President Steven Sinofsky Quits Microsoft ( Tom's Hardware 2012-11-13 ) 09:28 am
[quote] In what is very surprising news coming out of the Remembrance/Veteran's Day weekend, Microsoft has revealed that Windows and Windows Live President Steven Sinofsky will be leaving the company effective immediately. Sinofsky was at the helm of Office products and lead the teams on the development of Windows 7 and 8 products.[/quote]

These Were Sinofsky's Final Words to Microsoft Employees ( Tom's Hardware 2012-11-13 ) 10:20 am
[quote] Gotta love that Surface RT commitment.[/quote]

Steve Ballmer's Memo on Windows President's Departure ( Tom's Hardware 2012-11-13 ) 11:00 am
[quote] Following the departure of Steve Sinofsky, former president of Windows and Windows Live, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer has responded to his exit via a memo.[/quote]

Microsoft Windows Head Departure Viewed Negatively ( Investors Business Daily 2012-11-13 ) 11:12 am
[quote] Microsoft shares were down more than 3% in early trading Tuesday.

The Microsoft announcement gave no reason for the departure of Sinofsky, who had been viewed as a possible successor to CEO Steve Ballmer. Sinofsky had been with the company for 23 years. His aggressive management style alienated too many colleagues, Reuters reported. Sinofsky also was viewed as territorial and frequently unwilling to cooperate with other divisions, the New York Times said.[/quote]


Windows President Steven Sinofsky Leaves Microsoft ( Slashdot 2012-11-13 ) n/a Comment Thread
[quote] But Sinofsky’s legacy will be felt for some time. Windows 8 is a radical departure from previous versions of the operating system, with a Start screen of colorful tiles linked to applications. In theory, that new user interface will allow the software to run on tablets (where the user can tap the tiles with a finger) or a traditional PC (where they can use the keyboard and mouse to navigate) with equal facility; for traditionalists and power users, there’s also a desktop accessible via a particular tile. It’s a sizable bet for Microsoft, and one that will stick around for years—long after Sinofsky lands on his feet somewhere new.[/quote]

The real reason Steve Sinofsky left Microsoft ( InfoWorld 2012-11-13 ) n/a
[quote] I bet Sinofsky made up his mind weeks ago. Just compare the enthusiasm he exuded at last year's Build conference (see below) with his milquetoast performance last month at the Windows 8 product launch (starting at 11:30 in the video). Veteran Microsoft reporter Mary Jo Foley contends that Sinofsky's press interviews, scheduled to take place just before the product launch on Oct. 26, were cancelled at the last minute.[/quote]

Windows chief Steven Sinofsky pushed out of Microsoft ( Guardian UK 2012-11-13 ) 12:58 pm
[quote] Microsoft staff stunned as chief executive Steve Ballmer pushes out man many had seen as his successor

... He brought discipline." There was particular emphasis on the final word - for Sinofsky was a tough manager who didn't suffer fools gladly.

That, in fact, seems to have been his downfall, allied to Ballmer's unwillingness to loosen his grip on the company. Another former Microsoft staffer told Reuters that Sinofsky's "relentlessly aggressive" style had annoyed and alienated others – even Bill Gates, his long-time mentor who is still company chairman. "He had no one left to fight for him," one staffer told Reuters. "Gates gave him cover, so he must have eventually caved [to Ballmer]."

Sinofsky, 47, had prevailed in a number of other fights – including seeing off Gates protege and former chief software architect Ray Ozzie, according to journalist Jay Greene, a longtime watcher of the company. Profiling Sinofsky last month, Greene noted that "Sinofsky's critics say he's elevated those battles to a new level, thriving by marginalising rivals while running the company's most profitable businesses, Windows and Office."[/quote]


Windows 8 head Steven Sinofsky leaves Microsoft ( PC Gamer 2012-11-13 ) 9:43 pm
[quote] Microsoft’s leadership echelon experienced a shakeup in its Windows division yesterday with the sudden departure of President Steven Sinofsky for unexplained reasons. Sinofsky oversaw and was responsible for the development of both Windows 7 and Windows 8. Microsoft’s official announcement states the mutually agreed decision takes effect immediately.[/quote]

Sinofsky OFFSKI: Is Windows 9 now codenamed 'Defenestrate'? 'Inconceivable' - May not mean what you think it means ( UK Register 2012-11-13 ) 9:54 pm
[quote] So Microsoft's Windows 8 chief Steve Sinofsky is offski. Was it corporate politics, modest Surface RT sales, or some hippie desire to find himself that made him quit?[/quote]

P.S. This is the last bunch of links from me, promise! ( unless something radical occurs ). It has been just over half a day and the articles are already too numerous to count. It was fun to read all the comments and notice the similarities that abound between all these different groups of people that inhabit all these different websites. It is safe to say that the natives are restless, everywhere. It is also a pretty safe bet that this is not over. I'm out!

Final Note: the New York Stock Exchange just closed. NO crash, but markets all slightly down. MSFT closed at $27.09, down -0.90 which is off -3.22%.

Final Final Note: ruh roh! I just heard that tomorrow ( Wednesday ) the largest lockup for Facebook shares is lifted. 800 million Facebook shares set to flood market. This makes Ballmer and Company quite possibly the most inept and irresponsible managers in history. Allowing this news the day prior to the Facebook shares event is suicidal. There is a very good chance that the market will tumble tomorrow dragging along perfectly good stocks in the process. But since Ballmer has literally greased the skids on the MSFT sled, they may be in for a wild ride.

EDIT: added links

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 14 November 2012 - 06:50 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1293
JorgeA

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P.S. This is the last bunch of links from me, promise! ( unless something radical occurs ).

I, for one, don't mind these bunches of links as they neatly collect a ton of information.

The least plausible-sounding theory for Sinofsky's departure is the one that has to do with his having finished a project and it being a good time to leave. Huh? Why would you want to leave just as your prescience and genius are about to be demonstrated (with explosive, worldwide Win8 acceptance)? Maybe going on a long relaxing vacation, but not quitting just BEFORE achieving the (presumed) vindication. It doesn't make sense to me.

And, as they say, you can't argue with success. If Win8 sales were going through the roof, whatever internal opposition there might be to Sinofsky would hardly be in a position to speak up. So I'm betting on a mix of both internal politics and less-than-stellar early sales figures for Windows 8 and/or the Surface, where the latter weakened Sinofsky's standing and emboldened his opposition.

--JorgeA

#1294
CharlotteTheHarlot

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The least plausible-sounding theory for Sinofsky's departure is the one that has to do with his having finished a project and it being a good time to leave. Huh? Why would you want to leave just as your prescience and genius are about to be demonstrated (with explosive, worldwide Win8 acceptance)? Maybe going on a long relaxing vacation, but not quitting just BEFORE achieving the (presumed) vindication. It doesn't make sense to me.

And, as they say, you can't argue with success. If Win8 sales were going through the roof, whatever internal opposition there might be to Sinofsky would hardly be in a position to speak up. So I'm betting on a mix of both internal politics and less-than-stellar early sales figures for Windows 8 and/or the Surface, where the latter weakened Sinofsky's standing and emboldened his opposition.

I think that is a very logical theory based on what we know.

One thing is for sure, the talk about planned exit is bull. The alluding to health issues is also bull. In fact all the lame excuses are bull because nothing short of a stroke or heart attack would prevent him from completing the work week, or better yet waiting until next Wednesday prior to the 4-day weekend where any news, good or bad will dissolve and be diluted by the Thanksgiving holiday, Football overload, and the Christmas shopping season kickoff with the Black Friday super sales. That day is in fact one of the 2 or 3 most optimal days to release something potentially damaging in any calendar year. Of course that is what a competent management team would do. I wonder if it is really possible that they are so incredibly insulated in a thick translucent bubble that they in fact can not relate to the world outside any longer. That would explain their astonishing tone-deafness with all aspects of Windows 8.

So we can be pretty sure that Ballmer and the Board along with billg himself let this thing get wildly out of control. For his part, you would expect that Sinofsky would still have the natural loyalty, no matter how angry he is, to voluntarily hang out for a while or take a vacation or at least keep a lid on his exit until the Weekend or Thanksgiving, right? So the interesting thing is what happened on Monday afternoon that caused Microsoft to issue that press release saying "effective immediately" instead of the more logical "effective at year-end" or "after a period of transition"? There is no way to read it except to imagine he packed his stuff and left.

So unless Sinofsky did something completely off the wall and was fired for cause ( e.g., criminal, immoral, unethical or illegal ) which there is no reason to believe, we have to assume this 'coup' was not of his doing and was instigated from inside Microsoft. This in turn begs the question as to what he might say now in an interview or maybe a book. Certainly he has NDA restrictions concerning Microsoft IP, maybe even a non-compete clause ( though these are very dubious legally and I don't think they have been tested fully ). But Sinofsky is carrying around a lot of info in his head. He no doubt has enough to sink Ballmer and possibly the company if he were so inclined. Which again, makes it astonishing that Ballmer, the Board and billg could allow it to happen. At the very least the management is utterly incompetent. But it is also possible considering the many errors in recent years that the company is FUBAR. And I don't know how you get out of this either. Maybe they can rescue Mark Russinovich from whatever cloud hellhole they stuck him in and beg him to help. But if I were him I would decline.

P.S. One of the stranger conspiracy theories has Microsoft planning on a major stock buyback and therefore all the bad news driving the price down is actually good news since they have enough cash to recover at least a third of all outstanding shares. Conspiracy aside, it is not that far-fetched because buybacks were one of the main methods that IBM employed after the crashes in the late 1980's to shore up their stock. Intentionally driving down the price would naturally make employees and other shareholders nervous of course, but also would invite federal scrutiny like they've never seen so it is admittedly crazy. But we really can not rule out anything these days, can we?

The best theories for Sinofsky's exit ( NeoWin 2012-11-13 )

Report: Bill Gates agreed Sinofsky should leave Microsoft ( NeoWin 2012-11-13 )

EDIT: Added links.

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 14 November 2012 - 06:56 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1295
jaclaz

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Hey guys, are you hinting that Mr. Sinosky actually lied :w00t: :ph34r: here?:
http://winsupersite....-changes-part-2

Some might notice a bit of chatter speculating about this decision or timing. I can assure you that none could be true as this was a personal and private choice that in no way reflects any speculation or theories one might read—about me, opportunity, the company or its leadership.
As I’ve always believed in making space for new leaders as quickly as possible, this announcement is effective immediately and I will assist however needed with the transition.


jaclaz

#1296
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Views from the inside ...

A Microsoft Without Sinofsky? ( Mini-Microsoft 2012-11-13 )

The thread has 163 comments so far, many ( if not most ) are Softies, all posting anonymously, displaying their amazement, astonishment and theories at the sudden exit of Sinofsky. It is quite an Earthquake. Lots of speculation, personal encounters and nuggets of information. If I had to tally the opinions I believe it is fair to say that Sinofsky is better liked than Julie, who is better liked than Ballmer. The engineers and programming grunts were clearly pulling for Sinofsky to replace Ballmer. There is much, much more. There is also a faction that parallels those of us in threads like this that are disgusted with the lurching towards Apple and the destruction of Windows. The overall tone is dismal. The theme song would be funeral march. No need to read Thurrott's skimpy self-serving tidbits any longer, listen to employees and ex-employees themselves Just a small sample ...

Good riddance, Mr. Sinofsky. Unfortunately for MS, Julie Larson Green makes the man look like a genius.



Could this be a primer to a massive reorg ? God, not Green, she is so short sighted and never original. Good riddance to Steve S. Wish we could add B to the list. How many chances do the Board of Directors give Steve B, Spineless folks pocketing msft $$$$$.



What facts do you have to back that up? Sounds like you're another opinionated MSoftie.

Also, why are you panning Julie already? Another ax to grind?"


First: I drive by the Microsoft store every day. The first week after Surface released it was fairly busy -- it's now a ghost town while the Apple store across the street is always SRO. Given that it's the only store where can buy Surface, that tells you everything you need to know.

And seriously - real the media commentary. Even ignoring Ballmer's "sales are modest" quote, they're all saying that consumer interest has fallen off a cliff over the last week. It's as dead as Windows Phone. But don't take my word for it, just wait and see.

As for Julie, she's one of those Microsofties who everyone always threw their hands up about whenver we heard she was promoted again. They are all over Microsoft -- people with no actual talent but who excel in the art of succeeding in a big corporate environment. Seriously, search out her talks on Youtube -- the woman is barely cogent at the best of times, and at her worst she's an unintentional comedian.

I left Microsoft a while ago so my axes are long since ground. Now I just enjoy watching the clown car roll along.



"Julie Larson didn't create the ribbon - Jensen Harris and others did. She was just a muddling middle manager the entire time she was involved in the process."

EXACTLY MY POINT. But who got all the credit and the promotion to VP? Julie.



BTW: This blog, which I don't recall ever reading, actually dates to 2004 and I'm looking forward to reading back into the different eras for internal insight when other dramatic events occurred like Vista and various Google and Apple releases for example. No time at the moment ( :lol: ) so I hope this thing survives for a while! Update: links to more of these: Mini-Like Sites

EDIT: Added link. Here's another that many Softies in that thread will disagree with: Microsoft and Google in world's top five best places to work.

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 16 November 2012 - 01:03 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1297
JorgeA

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Views from the inside ...

A Microsoft Without Sinofsky? ( Mini-Microsoft 2012-11-13 )

Wow, another great excuse to spend an afternoon not getting work done. ;)

Here's my favorite comment from that blog post:

Mark my words: Ballmer will announce his retirement soon. Sinofsky left because he was informed he wouldn't be considered for the CEO job.

Julie LG and Tami Reller's appointments are only temporary. A massive re-org (either timed to Ballmer's retirement or sure to follow in his replacement's first quarter) is a certainty.

That'd be great -- it would complete the cleanout of the Three Stooges who gave us that Windows 8 abomination.

--JorgeA

#1298
vinifera

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now that he's fired
he can finally throw away win phone and tablet and use iPhone and iPad :lol:

Edited by vinifera, 15 November 2012 - 08:26 AM.

If you want true Windows user experience
try Longhorn builds: 3718, 4029, 4066

#1299
Tripredacus

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A lawyer is suing Microsoft for false advertising after his 32GB Surface slab turned up with 16GB of free space.

//

Sokolowski hopes, however, that his complaint will gain class-action status

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/15/surface_lawsuit/

Get in on this, if you feel you were wronged. For some reason I feel it will be a very small class. :rolleyes:
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#1300
JorgeA

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A lawyer is suing Microsoft for false advertising after his 32GB Surface slab turned up with 16GB of free space.

//

Sokolowski hopes, however, that his complaint will gain class-action status

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/15/surface_lawsuit/

Get in on this, if you feel you were wronged. For some reason I feel it will be a very small class. :rolleyes:

Is that because there will be so many delighted Surface customers that few will want to sue, or because there'll be so few Surface buyers that there won't be all that many eligible to sue? ;)

--JorgeA




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