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Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions


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#1351
JorgeA

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Being one of those days where my understanding of English is somewhat lacking, this sentence:
http://www.microsoft...e/en-AU/storage

Even with this powerful operating system and suite of core Microsoft apps, you'll still have space to add content and store personal files

sounds to me as being condescending and/or presumptuous.

You read the sentence correctly. It's like one of those hybrid automobiles that has the big electric battery in the rear taking up most of the trunk space, and the auto manufacturer telling you that "you'll still have space for your groceries, handyman projects, or Christmas presents."

Basically, this is how they're pitching the situation:

You'll still have storage space!*
(*) Just not as much space as you might expect.


Having Excel without Macros/Add-ins :ph34r:, what would be next, power drills with no chuck but a fixed 6 mm steel drill bit, adjustable wrenches fixed to 13 mm?

An excellent analogy, IMHO.

--JorgeA


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#1352
Joseph_sw

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http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/home-and-student/office-home-student-rt-preview-FX103210361.aspx

If you already use macros, add-ins, InfoPath forms with custom programs, or other custom programs in your PC or Mac version of Office, you will not be able to use them in Office Home & Student 2013 RT.

Having Excel without Macros/Add-ins :ph34r:, what would be next, power drills with no chuck but a fixed 6 mm steel drill bit, adjustable wrenches fixed to 13 mm?

jaclaz

somehow i got this feeling that MS would said the crippled Office-suit decision were based on (dubious) 'telemetry' result.

#1353
CharlotteTheHarlot

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NeoWin article that actually points out two examples of Microsoft playing fast and loose with the facts. It concerns a new video that Redmond has launched and is aimed at developers to convince them to write apps for Windows 8 ...

"Generation App" video makes a case for making Windows 8 apps ( NeoWin 2012-12-10 )

This is the NeoWin author John Callaham writing and the quoted Microsoft claims are in bold ...

The video also stops at two points to throw out some stats that are interesting. One says, "Over the last 2 years, more Windows licenses have been sold than Android, iOS, and Macs combined." That's certainly true, but those licenses were almost all for Windows 7, not Windows 8, and there's no way to really predict how many of those older Windows 7 PCs will be upgraded to Windows 8.

The second stat that's thrown out is also a bit iffy: "A worldwide app store with over 1 billion potential users!" The word "potential" is the key one. Again, there's no way that all the Windows users in the world will ditch their older OS for Windows 8. In fact, it could take years for Windows 8 to be installed on a majority of PCs.



:puke: This is exactly why everything they say, particularly the recently discussed bogus "sales" figures, must be taken with a grain pound of salt. Truth is no longer an option.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1354
jaclaz

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Isn't it fun how everyone sees the relevant parts differently? :unsure:

From the same link:

The effort comes in the form of a new YouTube video that shows a number of already released third-party apps in action, including the Kayak travel booking service, the Howstuffworks.com app, the Major League Soccer app and more.


It's years I have been waiting for such an app :yes: :thumbup , a dedicated app for booking travels or read simple explanations on how thing works, a sensationally new paradigm shift......

In the old times we called those "bookmarks" :whistle: .

jaclaz

#1355
CharlotteTheHarlot

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True story about How Stuff Works ... Years ago when we were still in the dial-up modem era I downloaded a lot of their excellent pages and compiled them into a nice CHM with all the flash videos embedded and working. Came out nice and it was essentially a working app in itself. Those pages were a real pain to load in a browser when clicking on links, but locally it was instantaneous. All the HTML and CSS needed to be tweaked of course, but it was simple work. Now we have promoted this ( I won't call it programming ) webslinging HTML+CSS into glorified Windows 8 apps.

So I must be the world's first Windows 8 app developer! :thumbup

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1356
jaclaz

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So I must be the world's first Windows 8 app developer! :thumbup

BUT, unlike on the Surface, you had local storage available to keep that huge compilation locally....

A good idea could be to have several (cheaper) Surfaces, each one with 16 Gb of storage total, somehow (like by writing good, lean code) reduce the space occupied by Office to have the Howstuffworks stored locally, another one for the writings by William Shakespeare, another one with pictures of all the paintings by Picasso .... no :unsure: , wait, these latter already exist, they are called books ....

jaclaz

#1357
CharlotteTheHarlot

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... another one for the writings by William Shakespeare, another one with pictures of all the paintings by Picasso .... no :unsure: , wait, these latter already exist, they are called books ....

Funny you should mention that. I actually did the same thing with Picasso ( and another for Dali ). They are static though, no flash, just bitmaps. And they are big. :yes: Never had the urge to touch Shakespeare though. :whistle:

Yeah, CHM is a nice container format ( lossless too ), it's only real shortcoming is that the contents are scrambled so there is no useful information to latch onto via a brute-force find or search utility. Even a ZIP file will cough up filenames and other hints ( unless it is encrypted I think ).

PRE-EMPTIVE DISCLAIMER: no, I would never distribute things like this! These were more of a learning experience in localizing files, editing HTML+CSS, embedding multimedia, etc.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1358
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Apropos of alleged sales numbers vs website usage statistics ...

Surface makes a small blip on the web traffic radar ( NeoWin 2012-12-11 )

In a nut shell, the Surface took .13% of the web traffic generated from the ad impressions across the Chitika network while Android took .91% of the market; Chitika states the sample base was in the tens of millions.


That is a decimal point there in that 0.13 % or less than one seventh of one percent. Yeah, it doesn't mean much now. And there is no doubt that Windows 8 ( of which Surface represents only a subset ) itself will chart eventually. I mean how can it not? The user market is much larger now than six years ago, and they are literally forcing it into the world through the OEM channels ( again ). Plus, now we have billions of phones also. The real question is whether it will get as high as Vista did ( I believe it was 20% at it's peak ) before the bottom drops out once and for all.

http://en.wikipedia....OS_market_share ... 2012-12-12 ... Windows 7 = 41.35% ... Windows XP = 21.29% ... Windows 8 = 0.32%

I wonder if it will ever even pass Windows XP. :lol: We should check back periodically and compare the current numbers to this snapshot December 12, 2012. ... Hey! 12-12-12 using two-digit years! This annual number anomaly must be important to somebody out there. ... :thumbup

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 12 December 2012 - 04:57 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1359
jaclaz

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As I see it there are great possibiltiies that the millions of people that bought the Surface at the time of the "share" data collection had either:
  • spent all their money buying the thingy and cannot afford to pay an ISP for connection
  • used it to play Simon
  • had yet to understand how to go online
  • only and exclusively connected to the Microsoft Apps store and to networks not connected with the Chitika one

in other words it is a bit too early for those web traffic results to represent *anything*:
http://insights.chit...-market-update/

To quantify this latest study on the market as a whole, Chitika Insights examined a sample of tens of millions of tablet impressions from the Chitika Ad network. This study was drawn from a date range of November 12th to November 18th 2012, and only includes traffic from the U.S. and Canada. This week was chosen in order to eliminate any Black Friday-related traffic spikes which could skew the results.

and it is very possible that the Chitika network (WHO? :w00t: ) and it's customers offer contents that appeal the iPad and Android users but not the Surface ones, we have a "study" conducted by a non-independent firm, citing senselessly and vaguely "a sample of millions of tablet impressions", limited to 6 (six) days just two weeks after the Surface launch.

Those reports, without the exact methodology used are m00t by themselves, additionally they were made at a time there was possibly NO meaningful number of surfaces sold.
So they are absolutely meaningless.

jaclaz

#1360
jaclaz

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Still on the OT/Tablet/Surface theme, the good MS guys seemingly lost a very good occasion to have a rather influential testimonial/endorsement:
http://www.theverge....xvi-first-tweet
http://newsfeed.time...oly-milestones/

jaclaz

#1361
dencorso

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#1362
JorgeA

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Great find, dencorso. I can hardly wait to read this, but it's getting late even for me.

The interview looks really promising, elaborating on the article that Nielsen wrote recently and which (I think) was linked to in this thread a few days ago. This is the first thing I'll look at in the morning!

--JorgeA

#1363
CharlotteTheHarlot

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That IEEE piece is a good article that expands upon the earlier Nielson comments on the GUI, but I think they are approaching it from the wrong angle IMHO.

The key problem is not really being addressed in these articles at all because most of these experts approach Windows 8 as a new product. These critiques start from the proposition of how to design an OS that handles both scenarios - power-unlimited desktop with big screen space and power-limited mobile with tiny screen space. And does this product successfully accomplish this. That is a false start because the former scenario ( unlimited-power large-screen desktop ) was already handled and only required minor tweaking ( or nothing at all ) to keep the 700 million or 1.3 billion users happy. It was already done! It already exists on those 700 million or 1.3 billion installations.

So they said "hmmm, there's this popular thing called mobile, let's redesign everything to accomodate it". The problem with this short-sighted ( and in this case, late ) thinking is that there are many opportunities to make this mistake yet they mostly avoided it. For example, before the web and in the early days of the web, FTP was all the rage. Many people lived in this environment exclusively. Before that, and overlapping it was USENET and company intranets loosely linked through Compuserve and other access points. One could easily see this current brainless management saying "redesign Windows to be like an FTP program, or as Newsgroup reader". Really they kinda took a similar step a little later towards the new WWW when Windows 98 came out and they showed their desire to blur the differences between online and offline, but not fully. Other similar trends are Twitter or Facebook and one wonders if they have this up their sleeve to morph into Facebook later. The point is that chasing trends or worse, fads, is ridiculous. And I am talking about redesigning everything around a trend or fad ( Microsoft Store ) rather than just addressing it sensibly.

Ironically, what they decided to finally do on the mobile side could in fact have been a fresh start if they chose too, but actually it is just a slight variation of earlier WP anyway. So they iterated the WP GUI and then inexplicably and mercilessly attacked the traditional already-working desktop GUI. Then glued them together and called it a day. Yay.

Truly, we had it nailed way upthread long ago by pointing out that the Metro interface just needed to be dropped in as an application like Media Center. But instead of that excellent solution, more nefarious motives ( pardon the pun ) surfaced, the arrogant need to force their "vision" and their Store onto their monopoly victims worldwide. So, they have managed to antagonize and alienate all segments of their customer base: Developers, Users, and Corporations. All this to simply gain a few percentage points ( eventually, but not yet ) in the mobile space. That is more than a gamble, that is pathologically reckless.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1364
jaclaz

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Still on the OT tablet topic:
http://mvardon.com/2...s-tablet-specs/

http://www.pratikpra...ed-out-tablets/

And a nice image from the above:
Posted Image

The article above includes a couple interesting links to the almost forgotten (and canceled) Courier project.....

And (yet another) article about the Surface being what?:
http://www.zdnet.com...top-7000007830/

jaclaz

#1365
CharlotteTheHarlot

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And a nice image from the above:

Clever image!

Maybe the thing was designed in the Southern Hemisphere where as we know, everything is done backwards and upside-down ( or is it counter-clockwise, I can never remember ).

So if down-under they use the built-in camera to take a picture of the moon, they can flip the Surface upside-down like a laptop and the moon will look like ours?

/sarc

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1366
MagicAndre1981

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MS now claims they had a tablet UI before the iPad:

We started planning Windows 8 in June of 2009, before we shipped Windows 7, and the iPad was only a rumor at that point. I only saw the iPad after we had this design ready to go.


So Metro is now 3 years old. WTF has MS done since then? All apps and the usability of metro is still crap.

Also Julie Larson-Green is as arrogant as Sinosfky:

I can’t imagine a computer without touch anymore. Once you’ve experienced it, it’s really hard to go back.


only because she likes touch, everyone else has to like and use it. I've tested touch with an iPad and hated it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.technolog...dows-8-succeed/
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#1367
Tripredacus

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So Metro is now 3 years old. WTF has MS done since then?


This:


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#1368
jaclaz

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@MagicAndre1981
Do check the mentioned Courier links.

http://news.cnet.com...courier-tablet/

As I see it (and as said before) a pen interface makes much more sense than a "touch" one by itself, and still IMHO the "book-like" two sided thingy looks a lot more usable, besides being a "common gesture" to open a book.
At least it would have been "new".

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 14 December 2012 - 10:59 AM.


#1369
MagicAndre1981

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@jaclaz

yes I know this. And Sinofsky KILLED it!!!!!! :realmad: :realmad: :realmad:

With this MS could be the leader today in tablet PCs
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#1370
JorgeA

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Do check the mentioned Courier links.
http://news.cnet.com...courier-tablet/

As I was watching the video, I was thinking to myself, "what would I ever use this for??"

While the technology looks pretty neat, the range of uses for this device seems awfully limited. Ultimately, technology has to be used for something, and there isn't enough "something" there. I did read the CNET article, and when it mentioned writers drafting documents and writing down ideas on this thingy, my reaction was -- umm, that's what I have MS Word (and OneNote) for.

Microsoft made the right call in killing this thing, IMHO. If only they'd opted to give Windows 8 users the choice of interface depending on their needs and the specific device they're on, instead of herding everybody into Metro, the conversation in this thread (as in so many other places) would have gone very differently.

--JorgeA

#1371
JorgeA

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So Metro is now 3 years old. WTF has MS done since then?


This:

Great -- live bubbles instead of live tiles. ;)

Why do people keep trying to fix what's not broken? Or maybe the motivation is, "Keep fixing it till it breaks."

--JorgeA

#1372
Joseph_sw

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We started planning Windows 8 in June of 2009,
before we shipped Windows 7, and the iPad was only a rumor at that point.
I only saw the iPad after we had this design ready to go. We were excited.
A lot of things they were doing about mobile and touch were similar to what we'd been thinking.
We [also] had differences.

We wanted not just static icons on the desktop but Live Tiles to be a dashboard for your life;

we wanted you to be able to do things in context and share across apps;
we believed that multitasking is important and that people can do two things at one time.

June 2009?
and just a month before Nemulator version 2.0b1 released ( release date: 2009-07-07 ) ?

Somehow I got this vibe that folk at MS reading CharlotteTheHarlot's post above (#1317) about Nemulator and informing her about it,
which prompts the Granny to 'moves' the date from 2010 into 2009 accordingly.

#1373
CharlotteTheHarlot

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June 2009?
and just a month before Nemulator version 2.0b1 released ( release date: 2009-07-07 ) ?

Somehow I got this vibe that folk at MS reading CharlotteTheHarlot's post above (#1317) about Nemulator and informing her about it,
which prompts the Granny to 'moves' the date from 2010 into 2009 accordingly.

No question that Nemulator has Metro beat by a mile. We have Jensen Harris admitting that it was early 2010 that they created mockups. IMHO the author of Nemulator could own Microsoft if he wants. That is, unless the Xbox dashboard is considered which makes things considerably more complicated. But I guess that would be for a jury to decide.

If there is a God, that trial would be televised and Steve Ballmer would be the first witness to be sworn in, followed by Sinofsky. With just the right amount of pushing, old fathead would melt-down and the nightmare would be conclusively over.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1374
CharlotteTheHarlot

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The story that everyone mentioned above is this ...

The Woman Charged With Making Windows 8 Succeed ( MIT Technology Review 2012-12-13 )

... also discussed here ...

New Windows chief explains why Microsoft redesigned Windows ( TechSpot 2012-12-14 )

New Windows Division head discusses why Windows interface was overhauled, more ( NeoWin 2012-12-14 )

and there is a related referenced article here ...

Microsoft Has Been Watching, and It Says You’re Getting Used to Windows 8 ( MIT Technology Review 2012-12-14 )

Considering we are talking about Windows which has a legendary association with a rock song intimately tied to the Start Menu, well it is perfectly logical that another Stones song is associated with Windows 8. A pile of Lies! Leaving aside the astoundingly pathetic garbage about telemetry, itself a massive whopper of a lie ( there are countless other parts of Windows that receive less clicks than the Start Menu, no-one can argue this ), the worst part is that they simply cannot tell the truth, and that is that this was intentional manipulation of the customer, like a sheepdog corraling the herd along a path to the shearing factory. Or did she slip and really mention the truth after all? Here is an admission of intentional manipulation ( from the last link above ) ...

She adds that the lack of tutorials or detailed instructions on how to adjust to Windows 8—something that has attracted complaints—is a deliberate choice. Tests have shown that although people find tutorials “comforting,” they don’t retain much information from them, she says, making them a waste of time.


Whoa honey. You admit Windows users are now guinea pigs? Beta testers? I've often said they have nothing but contempt for the average Windows user, and this pretty much proves it. Nice. Back to the original article for some of her patented absurdity ...


Before Windows 8 the goal was to launch into a window, and then you put that window away and you got another one. But with Windows 8, all the different things that you might want to do are there at a glance with the Live Tiles. Instead of having to find many little rocks to look underneath, you see a kind of dashboard of everything that’s going on and everything you care about all at once. It puts you closer to what you’re trying to get done.


WTF! Did she just describe the traditional Windows user as running some program, then closing it, running the next, closing it, etc? That's what she thinks we have quad-cores and a gazillion programs for? Holy crap! She is saying that we are the single-taskers! She believes we are the ones that operate serially like an Instruction Pointer, not the Metro tablet Angry Bird fanboys who bounce from Facebook to Twitter! That is so **** insulting I'm mad enough to chew Neutronium :realmad: ( that's for real old-timers ).


You’ll use the mouse and keyboard, but even on the regular desktop you’ll find yourself reaching up doing the things that are faster than moving the mouse and moving the mouse around. It’s not like using the mouse, which is more like puppeteering than direct manipulation.


Uh huh. What about ergonomics again? Nevermind, that is beyond her pay grade. But how about her assumption that the slight abstraction of pushing a mouse is "in-direct" and that we are so stupid we need to remove that abstraction and "directly" push pixels directly on the screen ( which is also an abstraction, DOH! ).


For cost considerations there might always be some computers without touch, but I believe that the vast majority will. We’re seeing that the computers with touch are the fastest-selling right now. I can’t imagine a computer without touch anymore. Once you’ve experienced it, it’s really hard to go back.


An admission that she herself is no more than a simple content consumer. Angry Birds or Flying Pigs is her actual skill set. And her plan is to convert the Windows user base into a vast world of numbskulls like herself. The future of MicroApple exposed.


We started planning Windows 8 in June of 2009, before we shipped Windows 7, and the iPad was only a rumor at that point. I only saw the iPad after we had this design ready to go. We were excited. A lot of things they were doing about mobile and touch were similar to what we’d been thinking. We [also] had differences. We wanted not just static icons on the desktop but Live Tiles to be a dashboard for your life; we wanted you to be able to do things in context and share across apps; we believed that multitasking is important and that people can do two things at one time.


Who believes that? What a load of crap. See above. There were only Windows 8 mockups in "early 2010" and the iPad came out in March 2010. There is no way that she and Sinofsky did not see an iPad before "we had this design ready to go." Those were mockups. No code. Mockups. Disclaimer: I couldn't care less about the iPad. Don't have one, never will. I care about lies.


It was a very definite choice to have both environments. A finger’s never going to replace the precision of a mouse. It’s always going to be easier to type on a keyboard than it is on glass. We didn’t want you to have to make a choice. Some people have said that it’s jarring, but over time we don’t hear that. It’s just getting used to something that’s different. Nothing was homogenous to start with, when you were in the browser it looked different than when you were in Excel.


She actually meant to say: "We didn’t want you to have to make a choice. ". There s that patented Microsoft arrogance once again.


When you sign into your Windows PC, one of the things you get asked is whether you’ll be part of our customer experience improvement program, and if you will, then you’re sending some data to us. Everyone gets asked that. We get terabytes and terabytes of data every day, and we can’t possibly use it all.


That is an accidental slip of the truth. What they don't use is the data that contradicts their arrogant contemptuous opinion of their herds of mSheep. Anything that shows the usage of the traditional NON-Apple power-user goes to the bit-bucket. The mSheep that stick to the program gets cited as confirmation bias in their quest to morph themselves into MicroApple.

There's more to this interview but that is about as much as I can personally stomach without gouging my eyes out with a spork. I can see exactly why the softies and ex-softies cannot stand this "executive". I pity those folks stuck with her.

Keeping with the Stones theme, I think there is another Stones song for this lady which from I read could be her theme song up in Redmond.

EDIT: typos, fixed links

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 15 December 2012 - 06:37 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1375
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Some faint praise highlighted at NeoWin ...

Business app developer: "We are doing great on Windows 8" ( NeoWin 2012-12-14 )

Since the launch of our title, we have had over 2,500 downloads. That is not too bad for an Enterprise business application. And I can share this, we made WAY MORE than $83 bucks on it ... We have seen an extra 15 to 20 new business leads a week because of Windows 8. We are seeing tremendous business traffic with Windows 8 that is for sure.


Hmmmm. Okay. I like this next line from the NeoWin author :lol: ...

In fact, an earlier blog post showed how the PUSHBI app can work in "snap view" so users can check on their business work while also playing Angry Birds Star Wars at the same time.


Stop the presses! They have cracked the dual-tasking barrier! And what a cracked barrier that is. Angry Birds can stay on screen while I glance at my business app. :lol: ( "The Human Race is Doomed" --Jaclaz )

Favorite comment so far: "The beatings will continue until moral improves..." :yes:

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...





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